This makes a lot of sense.

It's also really frustrating to have to replenish builds, and this game has MASSIVE build diversity.

I know many people who would outright quit the game if the gear cap were raised.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A minority of vocal players have been asking for a gear cap increase for a while. In this thread I am going to explain why a gear cap increase will NEVER happen in ESO (unless ZOS abandons One Tamriel).

"But WoW keeps increasing their gear cap, why can't ESO?"

The answer is simple: WoW doesn't have scaling.

When WoW introduces a new zone, dungeon, or raid, the mobs in said instance are also a higher level than the rest of the mobs in the game. Therefore, the player needs to farm new gear in order to complete this new content.

This is how ESO worked before One Tamriel (and is also why ESO had an increasing gear cap then).

As of One Tamriel, when ESO launches new content, the mobs are automatically scaled to the same level as all other mobs in the game. You don't need new gear to complete the new content. However, raising the gear cap would mean that all old content becomes inaccessible to the player until they've farmed gear at the new gear cap. When WoW increase the gear cap, old content is still accessible, it's only new content that requires new gear. This alone makes it impossible to increase the gear cap without breaking the game for everyone.

"But I want to become stronger, and I can only become stronger with higher level gear."

This statement is also incorrect. Gear levels do not make you stronger in ESO because mobs scale to the max gear level. Therefore, if the gear cap were raised to CP180 (for example), all mobs would be scaled to CP180. This means that all your stats would be increased 1:1 with mob stats. Your DPS would be identical at CP180 to what it was at CP160. A gear cap increase in ESO is not a means of progression (which is what some people seem to think).

As you can see, a gear cap increase in ESO accomplishes nothing. It isn't needed to unlock new content, nor does it make you more powerful. The only way it could work is if ZOS abandoned One Tamriel, which I highly doubt they will do.

Very clear Point. ESO will never have a large end game population and this is one of the reasons. One Tamriel was actually a step to far in one direction and burned the bridge behind it. It was almost an NGE for ESO in some small way. though they did far better with it than Sony did with SWG. right now ZOS is a washing machine of rinse cycle repeat with its customers. one way out of this is to Layer the cp system and make new constellations with a level increase that unlock at the new max level. it's something they should have done with Morrowind. unfortunately ZOS will continue to focus on content for its single player community. and the end game will continue as it has. Guilds will rise up with new player and a middling population of returnees and die off in a cycle. Long term players be come isolationists and the churn will continue. its unfortunate because even the console players are screaming for this to be a real MMO, their largest complaint is trials and add ons lol

Endgame content has nothing to do with a gear cap (in fact, an increasing gear cap is detrimental to endgame as it forces you to grind gear instead of play the actual content). There just needs to be a constant influx of new content (which there hasn't been for a while). Although this year it seems we're getting 2 raids, which is a step in the right direction.

If you constantly add new sets maybe. Every game that has lasted more then five year follows a formula of increasing levels and increasing the alternate advancment systems. As well as adding new gear. Just adding new content does not keep the end game player interested if there is nothing new to quire but questing. Sorry but it just does not work that way?

I mean, I fail to see how gear grinding is "fun". I spent 1 hour in DS1 and I almost uninstalled the game. Yes, ESO is different than traditional MMOs, but the question is this: is the traditional advancement system in other MMOs a right call? Because, as you see, the traditional MMO genre is dying very quickly. There's a reason for it: people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. Right now, it's the rise of competitive games, and the thing in common of all these successful games is that they all have amazing gameplay. It's a clear indication that people prefer gameplay to grinding at this point. Sure, gear grinding is still needed for an MMO, but there's a point where it's enough. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind.
The question is this, should ZOS stay on a sinking boat or should they abandon it and try something new instead? In my opinion, it would be a better choice of ZOS focusing on improving the gameplay and the competitive aspect of the game, instead of the old boring grind of a dying genre.

I dont find ESO gameplay amazing though. aquiring rewards from challenging content is far different from grinding i never once asked for a gear grind which eso already has in form of its trait system. and for game play there really is none because you canlight attack your way naked to lvl 50 if you so chose too. there are games that have good game play. and i dont think the traditional mmo is dying at all. some of these games are still going strong 12 years post launch.

ESO gameplay isn't amazing, but at least it's action based so it's better than WoW and most of the point-and-click MMOs in my opinion. Plus, that's also why I said ZOS should focus on improving the gameplay.

You know that traditional MMO dying is a fact and is backed up with numbers, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8t4h53k29s

it must be dying , because that English accent youtuber says Google trends are down . ZOS sold 1.6 million copies of this game at launch, more then any MMO title to ever sell on its launch day. the intrest is there . Its not dying enough that Zenimax online was willing to borrow 300 million dollars on top of the Bethesda capital to start ZOS specifically to make ESO and a potential Fallout MMO. there is no doubt MOBA's are attracting large numbers of gamers i do agree. MMO's are not going anywhere most of the Genres godfathers and development teams are shying away from those big corporate dollars to work on indie projects because they get screwed out of their own creations.

I play both MMOs and MOBAs. MMOs for PvE and MOBAs for PvP. I won't touch MMO PvP with a 10 foot pole. I need MMR-based match-making, ladder, balance (that doesn't have PvE to drag it down), etc.

PvP-based gaming has always been more popular than cooperative gaming. Back in the mid-2000s, the only ability-based PvP games were MMOs. Anyone who only PvPs has no reason to play an MMO these days since MOBAs do everything a PvP MMO does but better. Hence why we might be seeing a decline in the MMO population.

I 100% agree, truthfully i play RTS far more than MMO's these days in Ranked matches. Part of the reason is MOBA's are doing so well is because they are cheaper easier and faster to make. they can pump them out and make them free to own but expensive to play. I dont know that MMO populations are declining. the Player bases are far larger then they were from 2000 to 2010. WOW was an anomaly and its player base grew so fast due to asian markets and that IP being well established. And i agree MMO PVP is just bad. the only ones that have done it correctly in games are the ones that did not try to individually balance classes as a mirror. And still it made PVE see saw . Personally i though ESO was far more fun pre Tam one Tam one worked great for new players and returning but not so much for the cap player.

These are great reasons as to why a gear cap increase SHOULDN'T happen.

That doesn't necessarily mean it won't. After the bizarre 10x for v16 decision, I wouldn't rule out another frustrating gear cap change.

Adding new sets without increasing the level cap can work, if and only if the meta constantly shifts and at least some of the new sets are farmed above all things. To make things better, introduce more build diversity like what POE does to attract a few experienced theorycrafters to lead the common players in this gear farm scene.

ESO does half of this: people farm sets, just not always the new ones, and there is very little true build diversity. I don't know about this. I wish it good luck.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Anyone who only PvPs has no reason to play an MMO these days since MOBAs do everything a PvP MMO does but better.

I wouldn't say that, I mean yes MOBAs do a certain very narrow type of PvP better in terms of it being more competitive, better balanced, more regularly balanced, etc, but some people for example prefer types or aspects of PvP that is simply not there in MOBAs, that MMORPGs do offer, I mean you can't play massive open world type PvP with a ridiculous meta game on the side like EVE Online in a MOBA can you.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Hence why we might be seeing a decline in the MMO population.

I'd say MOBAs (or FPS like Overwatch, CS:GO, etc) are the right example, but you got the reason wrong, they are right example because they provide gameplay that is both meaningful and re-playable, the problem with the state of the MMORPG genre is not PvP as such, but that PvE offers little replay-ability to anyone who isn't a Skinner Box zombie (plays mostly for shiny things) and even beyond that has rather dull low skill gameplay that basically consists of a game of 'simon says'.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A minority of vocal players have been asking for a gear cap increase for a while. In this thread I am going to explain why a gear cap increase will NEVER happen in ESO (unless ZOS abandons One Tamriel).

"But WoW keeps increasing their gear cap, why can't ESO?"

The answer is simple: WoW doesn't have scaling.

When WoW introduces a new zone, dungeon, or raid, the mobs in said instance are also a higher level than the rest of the mobs in the game. Therefore, the player needs to farm new gear in order to complete this new content.

This is how ESO worked before One Tamriel (and is also why ESO had an increasing gear cap then).

As of One Tamriel, when ESO launches new content, the mobs are automatically scaled to the same level as all other mobs in the game. You don't need new gear to complete the new content. However, raising the gear cap would mean that all old content becomes inaccessible to the player until they've farmed gear at the new gear cap. When WoW increase the gear cap, old content is still accessible, it's only new content that requires new gear. This alone makes it impossible to increase the gear cap without breaking the game for everyone.

"But I want to become stronger, and I can only become stronger with higher level gear."

This statement is also incorrect. Gear levels do not make you stronger in ESO because mobs scale to the max gear level. Therefore, if the gear cap were raised to CP180 (for example), all mobs would be scaled to CP180. This means that all your stats would be increased 1:1 with mob stats. Your DPS would be identical at CP180 to what it was at CP160. A gear cap increase in ESO is not a means of progression (which is what some people seem to think).

As you can see, a gear cap increase in ESO accomplishes nothing. It isn't needed to unlock new content, nor does it make you more powerful. The only way it could work is if ZOS abandoned One Tamriel, which I highly doubt they will do.

Very clear Point. ESO will never have a large end game population and this is one of the reasons. One Tamriel was actually a step to far in one direction and burned the bridge behind it. It was almost an NGE for ESO in some small way. though they did far better with it than Sony did with SWG. right now ZOS is a washing machine of rinse cycle repeat with its customers. one way out of this is to Layer the cp system and make new constellations with a level increase that unlock at the new max level. it's something they should have done with Morrowind. unfortunately ZOS will continue to focus on content for its single player community. and the end game will continue as it has. Guilds will rise up with new player and a middling population of returnees and die off in a cycle. Long term players be come isolationists and the churn will continue. its unfortunate because even the console players are screaming for this to be a real MMO, their largest complaint is trials and add ons lol

Endgame content has nothing to do with a gear cap (in fact, an increasing gear cap is detrimental to endgame as it forces you to grind gear instead of play the actual content). There just needs to be a constant influx of new content (which there hasn't been for a while). Although this year it seems we're getting 2 raids, which is a step in the right direction.

If you constantly add new sets maybe. Every game that has lasted more then five year follows a formula of increasing levels and increasing the alternate advancment systems. As well as adding new gear. Just adding new content does not keep the end game player interested if there is nothing new to quire but questing. Sorry but it just does not work that way?

I mean, I fail to see how gear grinding is "fun". I spent 1 hour in DS1 and I almost uninstalled the game. Yes, ESO is different than traditional MMOs, but the question is this: is the traditional advancement system in other MMOs a right call? Because, as you see, the traditional MMO genre is dying very quickly. There's a reason for it: people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. Right now, it's the rise of competitive games, and the thing in common of all these successful games is that they all have amazing gameplay. It's a clear indication that people prefer gameplay to grinding at this point. Sure, gear grinding is still needed for an MMO, but there's a point where it's enough. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind.
The question is this, should ZOS stay on a sinking boat or should they abandon it and try something new instead? In my opinion, it would be a better choice of ZOS focusing on improving the gameplay and the competitive aspect of the game, instead of the old boring grind of a dying genre.

I dont find ESO gameplay amazing though. aquiring rewards from challenging content is far different from grinding i never once asked for a gear grind which eso already has in form of its trait system. and for game play there really is none because you canlight attack your way naked to lvl 50 if you so chose too. there are games that have good game play. and i dont think the traditional mmo is dying at all. some of these games are still going strong 12 years post launch.

ESO gameplay isn't amazing, but at least it's action based so it's better than WoW and most of the point-and-click MMOs in my opinion. Plus, that's also why I said ZOS should focus on improving the gameplay.

You know that traditional MMO dying is a fact and is backed up with numbers, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8t4h53k29s

it must be dying , because that English accent youtuber says Google trends are down . ZOS sold 1.6 million copies of this game at launch, more then any MMO title to ever sell on its launch day. the intrest is there . Its not dying enough that Zenimax online was willing to borrow 300 million dollars on top of the Bethesda capital to start ZOS specifically to make ESO and a potential Fallout MMO. there is no doubt MOBA's are attracting large numbers of gamers i do agree. MMO's are not going anywhere most of the Genres godfathers and development teams are shying away from those big corporate dollars to work on indie projects because they get screwed out of their own creations.

The reason that ESO is doing well for an MMO is that ESO is an unique experience compared to other MMOs, in the sense that it is not a traditional MMORPG. The game doesn't follow the traditional progression system that you suggested. This is the exact reason why I said ESO shouldn't follow the same old MMO formula, traditional MMOs are dying because of it, people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind, people just don't enjoy a grindfest anymore, this isn't 2004.

Apart from ESO, if you look at the numbers, WoW's sub number is declining rapidly, traditional grindfest MMOs are dying like flies. About indie MMOs, if they want to be successful, they have to be unique, they have to try out new creative things, if they keep the same old grindfest formula, they will die like all the traditional MMOs are dying.

ESO is doing well because of the damn cash shop and you know it. it has huge population of people that dont even play the game dont give me that garbage. It sold tons of copies and has a bunch of revenue from its crown store feeding of the barbie doll community If you look at its rention it did horribly in a 18 month windo from launch, the only thing that help it was console sales. And you keep going on and on about gear grinds Jesus dude they exist right here in its trait system people grind one solo instance for VMA weapons for a specific trait and the fact that you don't see ESO for what it is in its end game just lets me know your not playing the whole game. the gear grind is no different here than it is in any other MMO. ESO 's retention from Launch was horrible and they keep redesigning the game to better fit the crown store and the player base that uses it. the that plays the game like its candy crush. quit trying to paint this game as the MMO messiah its just not. Its business model is predatory and had they not written their TOS the way it is there would have been legal consequences for what they did with Morrowind. ESO is not a unique experience its just like every other MMO just far more shallow. the old ones are dying because they are old they were designned for a 10 year life cycle and they far exceeded it.

Lol dude. As I have explained above, ESO is unique in the sense that it is not a traditional MMORPG, the game doesn't follow the traditional progression system in other MMOs that you suggested. You see, gear grinding is already bad, so why on Earth do you want them to raise gear cap to make it even worse? It did horribly at launch because most of the feedbacks told ZOS that the game was just a generic WoW clone, not "Elder Scrolls-ish" enough, and feedbacks were pretty clear that players didn't want another WoW clone. So they changed things. They added the Justice System, they added more content like Craglorn, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and guess what, they added One Tamriel which is basically Skyrim's progression system. Take a look at the numbers from Steam chart: http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
October 2016, the game tripled the number of avg. players, from 3k to 9k. That's just steam, a small part of PC playerbase, it doesn't even count the new players from Bethesda launcher, PS4 and Xbox one. You see it now? People want something unique, something new, no one wants to play another WoW clone.
The old ones are dying because they are old, so where are all the new and successful ones with the same progression system? If traditional MMO is doing sooooo well, there would be a tons of successful new titles, so where are they? There are so few new MMOs released, and as time flies, new projects are less grand and less impressive. Number talks, as you see, the decline of traditional MMOs is a fact and is backed up by actual numbers. No one cares if you think traditional MMO is not dying, because all the numbers suggest that in fact it is dying.

If new MMOs want to be successful, they have to be unique, they have to try out new creative things, if they keep the same old grindfest formula (raising gearcap each expansion), they will die like all the traditional MMOs are dying.

Too bad that is not the way scalling works in this game. When you are under lvl 50 you are scalled up, based in your stats and the level of your gear.

So much words, wrong premise. Sry.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A minority of vocal players have been asking for a gear cap increase for a while. In this thread I am going to explain why a gear cap increase will NEVER happen in ESO (unless ZOS abandons One Tamriel).

"But WoW keeps increasing their gear cap, why can't ESO?"

The answer is simple: WoW doesn't have scaling.

When WoW introduces a new zone, dungeon, or raid, the mobs in said instance are also a higher level than the rest of the mobs in the game. Therefore, the player needs to farm new gear in order to complete this new content.

This is how ESO worked before One Tamriel (and is also why ESO had an increasing gear cap then).

As of One Tamriel, when ESO launches new content, the mobs are automatically scaled to the same level as all other mobs in the game. You don't need new gear to complete the new content. However, raising the gear cap would mean that all old content becomes inaccessible to the player until they've farmed gear at the new gear cap. When WoW increase the gear cap, old content is still accessible, it's only new content that requires new gear. This alone makes it impossible to increase the gear cap without breaking the game for everyone.

"But I want to become stronger, and I can only become stronger with higher level gear."

This statement is also incorrect. Gear levels do not make you stronger in ESO because mobs scale to the max gear level. Therefore, if the gear cap were raised to CP180 (for example), all mobs would be scaled to CP180. This means that all your stats would be increased 1:1 with mob stats. Your DPS would be identical at CP180 to what it was at CP160. A gear cap increase in ESO is not a means of progression (which is what some people seem to think).

As you can see, a gear cap increase in ESO accomplishes nothing. It isn't needed to unlock new content, nor does it make you more powerful. The only way it could work is if ZOS abandoned One Tamriel, which I highly doubt they will do.

Nice and clean explanation i love it beside with our CP point get lvl up player do get stronger with a high lvl gear so there is no point of have high gear lvl in this game.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

They already stated it will happen this year...

No they didn't. They said they will let us know when (and if) an increase was coming.

As I explained, it's impossible to raise the gear cap without getting rid of One Tamriel, so I don't imagine we'll be getting a gear cap increase any time soon, if ever.

No they said they will be increasing it, just not anytime soon (at the time of the post, which was Homestead PTS or OT PTS idr)

Gina said that they would not be increasing the gear cap with Morrowind and that they would let us know when they are. They didn't say they will. They intentionally left it open ended if they ever decide to take the game in a different direction.

That's how you chose to interpret it, but they pretty much said a few DLCs back already that it's going to happen eventually.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A minority of vocal players have been asking for a gear cap increase for a while. In this thread I am going to explain why a gear cap increase will NEVER happen in ESO (unless ZOS abandons One Tamriel).

"But WoW keeps increasing their gear cap, why can't ESO?"

The answer is simple: WoW doesn't have scaling.

When WoW introduces a new zone, dungeon, or raid, the mobs in said instance are also a higher level than the rest of the mobs in the game. Therefore, the player needs to farm new gear in order to complete this new content.

This is how ESO worked before One Tamriel (and is also why ESO had an increasing gear cap then).

As of One Tamriel, when ESO launches new content, the mobs are automatically scaled to the same level as all other mobs in the game. You don't need new gear to complete the new content. However, raising the gear cap would mean that all old content becomes inaccessible to the player until they've farmed gear at the new gear cap. When WoW increase the gear cap, old content is still accessible, it's only new content that requires new gear. This alone makes it impossible to increase the gear cap without breaking the game for everyone.

"But I want to become stronger, and I can only become stronger with higher level gear."

This statement is also incorrect. Gear levels do not make you stronger in ESO because mobs scale to the max gear level. Therefore, if the gear cap were raised to CP180 (for example), all mobs would be scaled to CP180. This means that all your stats would be increased 1:1 with mob stats. Your DPS would be identical at CP180 to what it was at CP160. A gear cap increase in ESO is not a means of progression (which is what some people seem to think).

As you can see, a gear cap increase in ESO accomplishes nothing. It isn't needed to unlock new content, nor does it make you more powerful. The only way it could work is if ZOS abandoned One Tamriel, which I highly doubt they will do.

Very clear Point. ESO will never have a large end game population and this is one of the reasons. One Tamriel was actually a step to far in one direction and burned the bridge behind it. It was almost an NGE for ESO in some small way. though they did far better with it than Sony did with SWG. right now ZOS is a washing machine of rinse cycle repeat with its customers. one way out of this is to Layer the cp system and make new constellations with a level increase that unlock at the new max level. it's something they should have done with Morrowind. unfortunately ZOS will continue to focus on content for its single player community. and the end game will continue as it has. Guilds will rise up with new player and a middling population of returnees and die off in a cycle. Long term players be come isolationists and the churn will continue. its unfortunate because even the console players are screaming for this to be a real MMO, their largest complaint is trials and add ons lol

Endgame content has nothing to do with a gear cap (in fact, an increasing gear cap is detrimental to endgame as it forces you to grind gear instead of play the actual content). There just needs to be a constant influx of new content (which there hasn't been for a while). Although this year it seems we're getting 2 raids, which is a step in the right direction.

If you constantly add new sets maybe. Every game that has lasted more then five year follows a formula of increasing levels and increasing the alternate advancment systems. As well as adding new gear. Just adding new content does not keep the end game player interested if there is nothing new to quire but questing. Sorry but it just does not work that way?

I mean, I fail to see how gear grinding is "fun". I spent 1 hour in DS1 and I almost uninstalled the game. Yes, ESO is different than traditional MMOs, but the question is this: is the traditional advancement system in other MMOs a right call? Because, as you see, the traditional MMO genre is dying very quickly. There's a reason for it: people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. Right now, it's the rise of competitive games, and the thing in common of all these successful games is that they all have amazing gameplay. It's a clear indication that people prefer gameplay to grinding at this point. Sure, gear grinding is still needed for an MMO, but there's a point where it's enough. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind.
The question is this, should ZOS stay on a sinking boat or should they abandon it and try something new instead? In my opinion, it would be a better choice of ZOS focusing on improving the gameplay and the competitive aspect of the game, instead of the old boring grind of a dying genre.

I dont find ESO gameplay amazing though. aquiring rewards from challenging content is far different from grinding i never once asked for a gear grind which eso already has in form of its trait system. and for game play there really is none because you canlight attack your way naked to lvl 50 if you so chose too. there are games that have good game play. and i dont think the traditional mmo is dying at all. some of these games are still going strong 12 years post launch.

ESO gameplay isn't amazing, but at least it's action based so it's better than WoW and most of the point-and-click MMOs in my opinion. Plus, that's also why I said ZOS should focus on improving the gameplay.

You know that traditional MMO dying is a fact and is backed up with numbers, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8t4h53k29s

it must be dying , because that English accent youtuber says Google trends are down . ZOS sold 1.6 million copies of this game at launch, more then any MMO title to ever sell on its launch day. the intrest is there . Its not dying enough that Zenimax online was willing to borrow 300 million dollars on top of the Bethesda capital to start ZOS specifically to make ESO and a potential Fallout MMO. there is no doubt MOBA's are attracting large numbers of gamers i do agree. MMO's are not going anywhere most of the Genres godfathers and development teams are shying away from those big corporate dollars to work on indie projects because they get screwed out of their own creations.

The reason that ESO is doing well for an MMO is that ESO is an unique experience compared to other MMOs, in the sense that it is not a traditional MMORPG. The game doesn't follow the traditional progression system that you suggested. This is the exact reason why I said ESO shouldn't follow the same old MMO formula, traditional MMOs are dying because of it, people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind, people just don't enjoy a grindfest anymore, this isn't 2004.

Apart from ESO, if you look at the numbers, WoW's sub number is declining rapidly, traditional grindfest MMOs are dying like flies. About indie MMOs, if they want to be successful, they have to be unique, they have to try out new creative things, if they keep the same old grindfest formula, they will die like all the traditional MMOs are dying.

ESO is doing well because of the damn cash shop and you know it. it has huge population of people that dont even play the game dont give me that garbage. It sold tons of copies and has a bunch of revenue from its crown store feeding of the barbie doll community If you look at its rention it did horribly in a 18 month windo from launch, the only thing that help it was console sales. And you keep going on and on about gear grinds Jesus dude they exist right here in its trait system people grind one solo instance for VMA weapons for a specific trait and the fact that you don't see ESO for what it is in its end game just lets me know your not playing the whole game. the gear grind is no different here than it is in any other MMO. ESO 's retention from Launch was horrible and they keep redesigning the game to better fit the crown store and the player base that uses it. the that plays the game like its candy crush. quit trying to paint this game as the MMO messiah its just not. Its business model is predatory and had they not written their TOS the way it is there would have been legal consequences for what they did with Morrowind. ESO is not a unique experience its just like every other MMO just far more shallow. the old ones are dying because they are old they were designned for a 10 year life cycle and they far exceeded it.

Lol dude. As I have explained above, ESO is unique in the sense that it is not a traditional MMORPG, the game doesn't follow the traditional progression system in other MMOs that you suggested. You see, gear grinding is already bad, so why on Earth do you want them to raise gear cap to make it even worse? It did horribly at launch because most of the feedbacks told ZOS that the game was just a generic WoW clone, not "Elder Scrolls-ish" enough, and feedbacks were pretty clear that players didn't want another WoW clone. So they changed things. They added the Justice System, they added more content like Craglorn, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and guess what, they added One Tamriel which is basically Skyrim's progression system. Take a look at the numbers from Steam chart: http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
October 2016, the game tripled the number of avg. players, from 3k to 9k. That's just steam, a small part of PC playerbase, it doesn't even count the new players from Bethesda launcher, PS4 and Xbox one. You see it now? People want something unique, something new, no one wants to play another WoW clone.
The old ones are dying because they are old, so where are all the new and successful ones with the same progression system? If traditional MMO is doing sooooo well, there would be a tons of successful new titles, so where are they? There are so few new MMOs released, and as time flies, new projects are less grand and less impressive. Number talks, as you see, the decline of traditional MMOs is a fact and is backed up by actual numbers. No one cares if you think traditional MMO is not dying, because all the numbers suggest that in fact it is dying.

If new MMOs want to be successful, they have to be unique, they have to try out new creative things, if they keep the same old grindfest formula (raising gearcap each expansion), they will die like all the traditional MMOs are dying.

I hate WOW i dont want a WOW clone but i do want actual group content . but with that said there afar more people playing WOW right now then ESO. ESO does not have the active player base you think it does. im glad you like them game. I do not anymore, i did at one point. The justice system is half baked. TG and DB were a scam those were supposed to guilds they added for free shortly after craglorn. Orssinium was decent single player addition and the delve was enjoyable. Craglorn was redone not because it sucked but because people had no reason to do it anymore, when it launched it was packed i mean packed , for months it was the hub of the game. i may be harsh on ESO true. but this game isnot the MMO messiah you think it is it does not have the player base you think it does and out of flushing my firends list three time and joing 20 different guilds not one person i played with at launch plays this game anymore, not one person i played this game with in 2015 plays anymore. the game is a constant churn player base and every 6 to 9 months it flushes. MMO's period are not being made much anymore and his to do with the economics of them and the people who know how to make good ones wont work for corporate america anymore thats just the facts.

Your point yesterday: ESO is doing well.
Your point today: ESO is not doing well.

Make up your mind, bro.

Btw it has nothing to do with my point. Traditional MMOs are dying and you can't deny that.

With the current system, additional content could be added and the new gear sets that come with it could be useless, which to me is an issue.

Imagine a new dungeon/raid is added, but the new item sets aren't better than current item sets. I don't wanna start running/farming a new dungeon/raid that doesn't even drop better loot than old content. Or even worse, I don't want to still have to farm old content because its gear sets are still BIS for my build.

With a system that brings an increase in gear cap with new content, you will always be changing out your gear with new content, which is a major part of all MMOs.

I think level/gear scaling has tons of benefits for bringing players together, allowing different leveled players to group, and making all content "viable", but it has huge drawbacks in other areas. If you have a sharpened maelstrom weapon(s) and it is your BiS, then it will be BiS until some new content is released that happens to exceed it in power. This could take years potentially. I am a newish player, but I think vMA weapons have been BIS for most builds since vMA was launched (how long ago?). That's kinda lame if you ask me.

I agree with the overall design of the origional post, with the exception: you don't speak for the devs and they specificly left it open ended, because they're likley not sure themselves. As for some replies.

I also agree that the MMO community is predatory (from other comments) and ask what consumer market isn't?

You also can't look at ESO's first year in sales to justify any argument. We are three years in with a growing consumer base. You're off point.

Any video games objective is to satisfy its market share while turning a profit. All of you need to use that perapective instead of what ever closed minded nonsense lead to half the nonsense posts above.