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Counter to Soul Assault
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Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
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No counter eh? Sounds like alot those one shot onslaught gank builds that only nightblades can run.I was gonna quote one guy and tell him he must be spamming it but never mind because it looks like the 90% of this thread use it lol.
No skill ultimate without counters, that's what the zerglings love, the no counter part.
SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade, just think about how strong nightblades are now and if soul assault wasn't how it was. There'd be even more proctards and even more broken stamblades then there already is.
Edited by Akinos on June 22, 2017 3:01PMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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No counter eh? Sounds like alot those one shot onslaught gank builds that only nightblades can run.I was gonna quote one guy and tell him he must be spamming it but never mind because it looks like the 90% of this thread use it lol.
No skill ultimate without counters, that's what the zerglings love, the no counter part.
SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade, just think about how strong nightblades are now and if soul assault wasn't how it was. There'd be even more proctards and even more broken stamblades then there already is.
Cloak kills it after 2 secs
It's a Stam hard counter, Healing Ward is a Soul Assault hard counter.
Either burst your opponent with your proc sets (you are Stam after all) while they SA or LOS, block, big heals
Magicka is just shield up.
It's great 1v1, can be a death sentence in 1vXEdited by Waffennacht on June 22, 2017 3:26PM0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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It doesn't effect procblades at all since they can cloak it.gethemshauna wrote: »It's great counter to procblades, spell doesnt need a change.
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Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Be a nightblade and cloak it after the second tick is the only viable counter.
e: I don't think it's OP unless like 3-4 are on you at the same time. I think the lack of counter makes it OP, but the damage is not all that.Edited by Magıc on June 22, 2017 3:31PM1 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
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No counter eh? Sounds like alot those one shot onslaught gank builds that only nightblades can run.I was gonna quote one guy and tell him he must be spamming it but never mind because it looks like the 90% of this thread use it lol.
No skill ultimate without counters, that's what the zerglings love, the no counter part.
SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade, just think about how strong nightblades are now and if soul assault wasn't how it was. There'd be even more proctards and even more broken stamblades then there already is.
One shot builds are pretty much dead and what you're trying to say is that if you use Soul Assault there will be less Nightblades?
The only class who can counter Soul Assault is, first of all, Nightblades so that doesn't make sense at all.
"SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade. "
All the AoE in the game (20-25 skills)
Caltrops
Detec pots
Mark
Streak
Any dot in this game (30-35 skills in the game)
Evil Hunter
Revealing Flare
Poisons
Curse
Purifying Light
I think you forgot those too ^^K1 The Big Monkey3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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No counter eh? Sounds like alot those one shot onslaught gank builds that only nightblades can run.I was gonna quote one guy and tell him he must be spamming it but never mind because it looks like the 90% of this thread use it lol.
No skill ultimate without counters, that's what the zerglings love, the no counter part.
SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade, just think about how strong nightblades are now and if soul assault wasn't how it was. There'd be even more proctards and even more broken stamblades then there already is.
One shot builds are pretty much dead and what you're trying to say is that if you use Soul Assault there will be less Nightblades?
The only class who can counter Soul Assault is, first of all, Nightblades so that doesn't make sense at all.
"SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade. "
All the AoE in the game (20-25 skills)
Caltrops
Detec pots
Mark
Streak
Any dot in this game (30-35 skills in the game)
Evil Hunter
Revealing Flare
Poisons
Curse
Purifying Light
I think you forgot those too ^^
You know someone is desperate when they list Evil Hunter as a counter, especially when they are wrong about Purifying Light, which does not reveal or give a general indication where a stealth NB is/went.
As far as Soul Assault, it's a dumb ultimate that's either useless or OP. Most of the time if the target is experienced and knows what they are doing it is useless, so most of the comments in this thread about frying enemies and it being a "death-sentence" are L2P issues.
I can see how a medium armor non-NB character would have trouble with the ultimate when outnumbered, for that I'd mostly hold responsible ZoS's combat team who loves their indiscriminate nerfs: because of heavy armor DKs and temps were abusing block, regular builds can no longer block without draining their stamina. Now you lose stamina every .25 seconds you block something, which is ridiculous when trying to defend yourself against this ultimate, which the developers intentionally made block the primary counter.
Classic case of one hand does not know what the other is doing.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am still surprised this ultimate is not more popular. Everytime you play medium and some capable sorc starts casting it (capable = it is not his opener, his curse will hit you during the channel, execute is casted and at least one shield is refreshed before starting) it is over. Not over that you die, but over that if you keep fighting for 10sec longer they will use it again and then you will die.
And damage is not even the problem (tho I still fail to see why it has better damage scaling that bow ulti while lacking any counters), it is damn stamina drain. Any mag user casting it and you will be the one with stamina problem in the fight, not them.
Someone in this thread suggested the best and easiest fix (or if not fix, something better than is now) -> LESS DMG TICKS
... and it doesnt drain only 15k (the cost of blocking 7 ticks of soul assault) it also stops at least 2, usually 3 regen ticks (thats anything between 3600 to 6600 stamina)
But it is popular. I dont think Im exaggerating when I say 50% of my deaths are because of soul assault in BGs.
It's instant death. Youre forced to block and even while blocking it hits for upwards of 20k damage total when youre in medium armour. Meanwhile your stamina regen is cut and most of your stamina pool is drained. If the soul assault doesnt kill you outright, youre left completely out of stamina and vulnerable.
I think people have no idea how strong this ulti really is vs normal medium armour builds because so many people are playing procblades that can cloak it after 2 seconds.Sometimes I see people swapping from their normal ultis to soul assault mid-BG if theyre having trouble dealing with me. It's just silly.
Easy fix for this ulti is reintroducing bashing as a counter. Actually, a ton of abilities/ultimates need to have counters again...
Completely agree, this ultimate is like a free win button against medium armor users who aren't a stamblade. I like the people who say LOS counters it, when you basically are snared by 70% and have to hold block or get melted in 2 seconds. The only counter I have found so far against this moronic ultimate is actually mistform and that's the reason why I'm a vampire on my stamina Warden.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shields are a hard counter to SA. Harness Magicka will even replenish your magicka pool.
I remember having difficulty countering it with my medium armor stam DK, but it was an l2p issue. I haven't played her in a while, but I think I used a combination of blocking, Vigor and Corrosive Armor.
I have been both on the receiving end and dishing out damage with this ability. Some people don't know what to do, and they die. Some people line of sight a lot. Those are tricky to get, and the ulti often goes to waste. Some people go on the defensive, and I breathe a sigh of relief that they're not counterattacking me. The more of a glass cannon you are, the more you should think about counterattacking. I always shield beforehand, but there are stamblades who will tear down my shield within 1 second.
I think the problem, if you want to call it that, is that this ability requires decisive action to counter it. Many people haven't worked out what to do within the context of their build. They die. Once you work it out, however, you become virtually immune to the skill.2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe its time to finally rework blocking so it is not more punishing the more regen you have? No? Ok, maybe next patch. After few more nerfs that will "adjust" permablockers in a way they barely notice and everyone gets *** again.
(I would even go that far and say nothing in this game should ever stop regen and instead everything that does should drain stamina like sprint or stealth)Edited by SodanTok on June 22, 2017 4:29PM1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Be a nightblade and cloak it after the second tick is the only viable counter.
e: I don't think it's OP unless like 3-4 are on you at the same time. I think the lack of counter makes it OP, but the damage is not all that.
The damage is not all that....
Say that to my 90k tooltip please.
Or my 15-20k death recaps.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Be a nightblade and cloak it after the second tick is the only viable counter.
e: I don't think it's OP unless like 3-4 are on you at the same time. I think the lack of counter makes it OP, but the damage is not all that.
The damage is not all that....
Say that to my 90k tooltip please.
Or my 15-20k death recaps.
Is that all? Lol, jk, I have had my tooltip up to 120k solo0 -
CavalryPK✭✭✭✭✭It cost my medium armor toon 17k stamina to block soul assault. Is this intended? Because then it means stamina builds do not have a reliable counter to Soul assault.
if you are a night blade after the 2nd tic.. you can actually cloak.THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.
Check out his PVP YouTube channel !
https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK0 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
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No counter eh? Sounds like alot those one shot onslaught gank builds that only nightblades can run.I was gonna quote one guy and tell him he must be spamming it but never mind because it looks like the 90% of this thread use it lol.
No skill ultimate without counters, that's what the zerglings love, the no counter part.
SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade, just think about how strong nightblades are now and if soul assault wasn't how it was. There'd be even more proctards and even more broken stamblades then there already is.
One shot builds are pretty much dead and what you're trying to say is that if you use Soul Assault there will be less Nightblades?
The only class who can counter Soul Assault is, first of all, Nightblades so that doesn't make sense at all.
"SA is one of the few things in this game that can reliably counter a nightblade. "
All the AoE in the game (20-25 skills)
Caltrops
Detec pots
Mark
Streak
Any dot in this game (30-35 skills in the game)
Evil Hunter
Revealing Flare
Poisons
Curse
Purifying Light
I think you forgot those too ^^
I said reliable counters. Almost everything you listed is either stamina based, a magsorc skill or just outright unreliable.Edited by Akinos on June 22, 2017 5:28PMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Will you stop with the BS tooltips already or provide a link to your builds?
BS tooltips? Have you actually used it?
@Waffennacht Do the msa 1hs still buff it?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Be a nightblade and cloak it after the second tick is the only viable counter.
e: I don't think it's OP unless like 3-4 are on you at the same time. I think the lack of counter makes it OP, but the damage is not all that.
The damage is not all that....
Say that to my 90k tooltip please.
Or my 15-20k death recaps.
I've tanked Shannoria's 105k tooltip SA in medium armour fairly easily.
e: Don't forget, it's an ultimate. A cheap ultimate I admit, it needs to cost more and have more counters, but the damage is not a problem, the lack of counters is.
e: Maybe it's different in no CP. But with BGs sucking major cocker and no CP Cyrodiil being nothing but procs procs procs, I don't bother with no CP.Edited by Magıc on June 22, 2017 7:12PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Will you stop with the BS tooltips already or provide a link to your builds?
BS tooltips? Have you actually used it?
@Waffennacht Do the msa 1hs still buff it?
I have no clue
sorry
@fred4
No BS here, self buffed, no Cyrodiil buffs iircEdited by Waffennacht on June 22, 2017 7:41PM0 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭I had thought block was the defense to use against it(since it's undodgeable and unbashable), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Cloak counters it after a second or so. Streak can enable you to LOS the caster despite the snare. Not sure what the other stam characters are supposed to do about it.0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I had thought block was the defense to use against it(since it's undodgeable and unbashable), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Cloak counters it after a second or so. Streak can enable you to LOS the caster despite the snare. Not sure what the other stam characters are supposed to do about it.
It's a medium armor hard counter,
"Do you expect me to counter?"
"No, Mr. Medium Armor, I expect you to die"3 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »It's a medium armor hard counter,
Are medium armor Templars and DKs that dangerous that they need a hard counter?1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I had thought block was the defense to use against it(since it's undodgeable and unbashable), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Cloak counters it after a second or so. Streak can enable you to LOS the caster despite the snare. Not sure what the other stam characters are supposed to do about it.
It's a medium armor hard counter,
"Do you expect me to counter?"
"No, Mr. Medium Armor, I expect you to die"
Sounds great, can we make onslaught kill anyone automatically that has over 20k resistances? It would make it a heavy armor counter. While you're at it let's make the damage from Dawnbreaker ignore armor shields, and have it do 3x the damage against anyone with less than 16k resistances? It'll make it a hard counter against light armor.
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out51d3r✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Sounds great, can we make onslaught kill anyone automatically that has over 20k resistances?
I'm assuming it got resolved with the pvp sneak critical nerf, but for a brief period I was in fact running around 1 shotting people with Onslaught. It was dumb.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I had thought block was the defense to use against it(since it's undodgeable and unbashable), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Cloak counters it after a second or so. Streak can enable you to LOS the caster despite the snare. Not sure what the other stam characters are supposed to do about it.
It's a medium armor hard counter,
"Do you expect me to counter?"
"No, Mr. Medium Armor, I expect you to die"
Sounds great, can we make onslaught kill anyone automatically that has over 20k resistances? It would make it a heavy armor counter. While you're at it let's make the damage from Dawnbreaker ignore armor shields, and have it do 3x the damage against anyone with less than 16k resistances? It'll make it a hard counter against light armor.
I dunno, I was stating what is, not why or what could be.
It is a medium hard counter, if it's balanced, necessary, OP, cheese or whatever anyone's opinion is doesn't change that fact. Make with it what you will.
- Also, I thought more people would get the James Bond reference1 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I dunno, I was stating what is, not why or what could be.
It is a medium hard counter, if it's balanced, necessary, OP, cheese or whatever anyone's opinion is doesn't change that fact. Make with it what you will.
- Also, I thought more people would get the James Bond reference
That's wise of you. The players who are successful play the game we have, not the one that we imagine should exist. Soul Assault probably shouldn't be a death sentence vs medium armor, but it many cases it is. If medium armor users are a problem for you, use it til it gets nerfed.
And I caught the reference.
Edited by out51d3r on June 22, 2017 9:43PM0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I had thought block was the defense to use against it(since it's undodgeable and unbashable), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Cloak counters it after a second or so. Streak can enable you to LOS the caster despite the snare. Not sure what the other stam characters are supposed to do about it.
It's a medium armor hard counter,
"Do you expect me to counter?"
"No, Mr. Medium Armor, I expect you to die"
Sounds great, can we make onslaught kill anyone automatically that has over 20k resistances? It would make it a heavy armor counter. While you're at it let's make the damage from Dawnbreaker ignore armor shields, and have it do 3x the damage against anyone with less than 16k resistances? It'll make it a hard counter against light armor.
I dunno, I was stating what is, not why or what could be.
It is a medium hard counter, if it's balanced, necessary, OP, cheese or whatever anyone's opinion is doesn't change that fact. Make with it what you will.
- Also, I thought more people would get the James Bond reference
Sorry bud, I didn't the reference :-\
I was more into Ace Ventura than James Bond
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Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Surprised anyone mentions SA, I've tried it on and off and most people just shrug it off. If i kill anyone with it was generally just as an execute.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭If i kill anyone with it was generally just as an execute.
Yeah, that's been my experience with being on the receiving end of it. It's not going to 100-0 me, due to cloak and streak. I could see certain builds having a VERY hard time with it though if they broke the ability to block it, which it sounds like they have.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If i kill anyone with it was generally just as an execute.
Yeah, that's been my experience with being on the receiving end of it. It's not going to 100-0 me, due to cloak and streak. I could see certain builds having a VERY hard time with it though if they broke the ability to block it, which it sounds like they have.
Depends if a sorc hits you with a curse + endless fury and manages to get your mid dodge roll he'll melt you.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Depends if a sorc hits you with a curse + endless fury and manages to get your mid dodge roll he'll melt you.
Well, that's a combination of abilities used with good timing. That should kill me. Against some enemies, Soul Assault basically just lets you one button derp into 110k tooltip damage.
For something so potent, at least one of the basic defenses should be a reasonable counter.0
This discussion has been closed.