Do you think ZOS will admit they made a mistake?

WarMasterCyp · June 2017

ZOS in my opinion have no clue when it comes to balancing their game, they probably never even play the game. ZOS lost most of it's player base and top youtube/streamers ever since morrowind got out and I don't blame them.

Either way I don't think they will ever admit they screwed up.

when ever I play it's like a ghost town, I tried playing at different times but no one is ever on.. most of my friends are never online anymore.

After that they put 6K , 4K 3K items on crown store and only a handful of people even bought the garbage which doesn't help them recover.

Browiseth · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun"

oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun

there. your thread is invalid. not even trolling either, i stand by the fact this is the direction the game needs to go and everyone just needs to adapt and git gud

derpmander · June 2017

I think the major thing they did this patch was lower the floor and raise the ceiling to be perfectly honest. The top raiding guilds will always adjust accordingly and see little to no dip in performance as far as clearing content with great scores, however the mid-tier and lower-tier groups see quite a huge dip in group damage as a whole as they are perhaps not so great at adapting to the new changes and the new challenges that they have to deal with now both as an individual and as a group.

Just an observation. They wanted to raise the floor and lower the ceiling, but it backfired heavily and they ended up doing the exact opposite of what they "intended".

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Do I think ZOS will admit that they made a mistake? No. I don't. Why? Because arrogance. ZOS is far too arrogant to realize what it is that they've done, and that their method of "fixing" a problem has gone and caused a myriad of other problems. Which is due to the fact that the developers as a whole are bad at balancing the game collectively. Whether it be from a PvE or PvP perspective. The game is an unbalanced mess, that for the most part is unenjoyable unless if you are questing and or doing things of that sort. I get the vast majority of my enjoyment in ESO from farming and questing, than I do: Doing trials, doing dungeons, PvP'ing, etc.

Zvorgin · June 2017

Sustain changes were necessary and don't kill enjoyment as usually one jewelry glyph covers the drop in sustain, the enjoyment killer is rng ingrained so deep in the mechanics that the game is just not fun at times. Get rid of proc sets, cut down rng in mechanics (looking at you vMA) and the sustain is fine and the game would be much more balanced. Eliminate resources poisons as well, absolutely stupid addition.

Hero93277 · June 2017

by the amount of 'agree' on posts that reflect positive on the resource management changes, id say more like it then not.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · June 2017

Mady wrote: »

So having unlimited resources while doing insane DPS wasn't boring?

Even if it was boring as hell the correct solution to that problem is NOT to massively reduce DPS AND resource longevity.

They had a hazelnut sized problem and used a wrecking ball to fix it.

They did that because they don't play the game we do, they play it with Dev Mode cheated BiS Set Bonuses.

All The Best

CountEdmondDantes · June 2017

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The only people I know of who are having difficulty with sustain are newer players and players who don't know how to play properly / adapt to changes.

I've adapted my builds just fine? Why can't other people? It isn't hard. You could always ask for help on this forum if you need it. No shame in that.

Actually, the people I see and hear complaining (in zone and guild chat) about difficulties with sustain are long-term players whose builds (they say) are now broken. They talk about how the decision ruined the game they loved and speak in terms of how much better the game was way back when. That's not something a "new" player can do.

As a new player with two characters of fairly low level, it had little if any, impact on me. One of characters is a Khjiit stamblade and he's struggling a big, but as others have said, you learn to weave in heavy attacks and sustain stam in other ways.

Of course, my templar is sailing along nicely.

Vahrokh · June 2017

It's not completely related to sustain, but I liked the fact I could experiment with lots of attack combos to get the desired DPS vs resources.
As of now it's boring.

Anyway, ZOS will change the current meta again , including regen rate. Or else nobody would care to keep perma-re-grinding new sets every other patch and people would get bored and quit. MMOs are based on the hamster wheel concept. You pay to grind what you need to grind more.

Elekest · June 2017

Avalon wrote: »

IF they believe they made a mistake, they will subtly, and secretly, make adjustments over time to get back to where they were. However, I wouldn't expect it to be in the natch potes or, if they are, these adjustments will show up cloaked as other adjustments.

I completely agree with this, it says everything I was going to say. I can't imagine ZOS will ever out right admit they mucked up, but I can see them briefly mentioning a slight increase to the problem, but most likely I think they will just slip it in there with a patch and not ever mention it. Admitting fault to breaking something they never should have touched to begin with isn't good for business.

Bobby_V_Rockit · June 2017

Animation cancelling seems to be less reliable, but that might just be the PS4 bug. Nothings any harder, just takes a moment longer to clear.

Elsonso · June 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Animation cancelling seems to be less reliable, but that might just be the PS4 bug. Nothings any harder, just takes a moment longer to clear.

While I don't like animation canceling, I do it. (Everyone does it, to some degree, even if they don't know they are doing it.) I have noticed since Morrowind that something has changed. Maybe they have tweaked the "animation priority"? I can't really say that it is broken, but it does not quite seem as smooth.

kuro-dono · June 2017

supaskrub wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

. PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

Sorry I just had to cherry pick that sentence, "completely devastated" awww come on now, it's still a face roll now in the majority of scenarios (trials excepted). you are way over reacting saying its been completely devastated, admittedly it is just a teeny weeny bit different and some builds have had to adapt, but it is hardly as game breaking as saying that it is "completely devastated" seems to imply.

its because ppl dont feel like godmore ruining normal ppls dungeon runs by going miles ahead and devastating everything.

technohic · June 2017

Sustain nerf wasn't the mistake. Doing drastic changes while still heavily relying on a RNG system and then not balancing counters such as resource poisons to match was a mistake. Launching battlegrounds in a broken state with bad to no matchmaking was a mistake. Just broad nerfs without actually balancing specifics has been the mistake they make repeatedly.

I have no problem with them having a vision for the game. It's that they do it half assed that bugs me.

Bigevilpeter · June 2017

Hero93277 wrote: »

by the amount of 'agree' on posts that reflect positive on the resource management changes, id say more like it then not.

Nah forums are just filled with fanboys who support anything ZOS does literally anything.

Vapirko · June 2017

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Im fine with the sustain changes, my Stam DK now rips single target damage in PvE as a heavy attack build and I never run out of stamina, and for pvp the changes have been nothing but good.

Until things need to die from cleave damage

Still rockin DW or PvE.

Ozstryker · June 2017

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The only people I know of who are having difficulty with sustain are newer players and players who don't know how to play properly / adapt to changes.

I've adapted my builds just fine? Why can't other people? It isn't hard. You could always ask for help on this forum if you need it. No shame in that.

Actually, the people I see and hear complaining (in zone and guild chat) about difficulties with sustain are long-term players whose builds (they say) are now broken. They talk about how the decision ruined the game they loved and speak in terms of how much better the game was way back when. That's not something a "new" player can do.

As a new player with two characters of fairly low level, it had little if any, impact on me. One of characters is a Khjiit stamblade and he's struggling a big, but as others have said, you learn to weave in heavy attacks and sustain stam in other ways.

Of course, my templar is sailing along nicely.

Pretty much nailed it here.... new players will probably get more out of their characters in the long term because they are now encouraged to control their resources forcing them to choose skills, passive, gear, enchants etc. accordingly...

The long term player who is struggling to adapt will eventually have a meta handed to them, and all will be ok again... till the next change!

Dubhliam · June 2017

This most definitely was NOT a mistake.

It takes little to no effort to adapt to the changes.

Will you admit you are too stubborn to change?

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

Fusiondk wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ozstryker wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

I cannot with the suckers in this thread defending the developers. SHEEP!

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

When they killed sustain? So far I haven't seen one one person who went " Oh the nerf to sustain made the game so much more balanced and more more fun". PVE specially was completely devastated by the sustain nerf and became incredibly annoying and boring.

What do you think, will they admit the made a mistake and revert the sustain changes or are they so stubborn to admit they made a mistake and try to adjust the game over the sustain nerfs and fail miserably?

there is nothing wrong wit the changes they made. Most effected are people who where using FOTM builds that made them never have to worry about management. Now that its gone people have to actually manage their pools and have no clue how to do it properly. Personally I am having zero issue with it, it simply took some getting use to.

@jircris11

There are multiple problems with the changes they made.

- It deliberately slowed the game down, which people hate.

- People have to give up damage which a large portion of bossfights and mechanics are dependant on

- In addition this was directly after an update that made enemies beefier.

Just because you are in love with the changes does not mean everyone is. I've seen enough forum threads and enough despaired people in game leaving to know it's not exactly a positive ratio.

The breakneck speeds that people still insist on running dungeons at suggest the opposite of your assertion, bosses are being downed at the same pace of not quicker than before, beefier or not!
I pug a lot, I see this regularly!.. if sustain is so bad, why are folk not popping orbs or shards, how are dds sprinting ahead so often if "sustain is sooo broken? The state of dungeons and overland has hardly changed at all!!

In fact I like that healing is more positional, and I can add a little more dps, and that tanking is less block everything and react more efficiently, makes the game more, ya no... fun!

So just because you don't like the changes, does not mean that no one does, I've seen enough threads shooting down despairing people and a massive increase of new players to know it's not exactly a negative ratio!

Okay.

This means what to my argument? People run how they want to run, so?

People will allways find ways to exploit a system, any system. Just because people have 'adapted' to appease the cult of fanboys that will mercilessly crush any dissent in the community, does not mean the system was worth adapting to, or better for the changes.

You like it. Other people like it. I see see more people saying it's a bad change, and people of some authority in the realms of statistics, (See: Guild leads monitoring their member participation, ect) saying their seeing a sharp drop.

If the churn is happy, fine. But Churn is Churn. Game cant survive on churn alone, and alienating your dedicated playerbase does nothing but hurt the game.

PS: Oh how you love to mention the people geting shot down. Wrongthink must be punished most brutally, eh?

What he means to your argument is this: When almost all veteran trials have two circumstances that ZOS doesn't want to exist. First and foremost they have tune trials around a certain percentage expectation or what is the point (loot? no. Story? no.). So when the top clears are just brute forcing most encounters with exceptional dps and sustain it becomes a problem when less than 1% is achieving it. While I would agree if someone countered that the player base just needs to come up and we shouldn't have to bring trials down, let's be honest: 99.5% of the dungeons I decide to pug the average DPS 400 CP+ is sustaining is probably around 8 to 9k. I passively do that as a healer. Then if you mention anything your an elitist who is trying to tell them how to play their game. Players simply don't want to come up to the bars top trial guilds set. Or anywhere near them for that matter.

Because my two points kind of melded together there, they were A) Zos doesn't want brute force to trump content mechanics every time through sustain whether incredible dps ceiling /healing spam. Zos is trying to tune in the max potential and the average DPS. Balance is a thing unfortunately. What's funny is the average player is shouting at this when it's the average player that is disgruntled by it.

Whether it was too much, too little, or just right for a nerf I see the angle, but it's hard to make such a drastic change so late in the game. So I empathize.

Honestly, if ZOS is attempting to stop people from brute forcing the mechanics and regulate the ammount of people that do these...I think raid attunement might be a better option. Far less people would bother, and only the truely dedicated would go for it.

Yeah that option sucks but if ZOS's arbitrary goals are anything to go by, why shouldn't the solution also be arbitrary?

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I know plenty who simply dislike the new 'regen' phase and think it's too slow. I've heard the comparisons to WoW and heard people say 'if I wanted that, I would have played that'. Some people just want a faster paced MMO.

And eitherway, 'tougher' isn't necessarily better.

Prior to the the sustain nerf, which class/build benefitted from playing at a slower pace?

None. That was the point. Game was never about being 'slow', and it didn't attract an audience that wanted 'slow'.

If you wanted 'slow', you went to a different game. Craming it where it's not wanted wont make people want 'slow'.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

This most definitely was NOT a mistake.

It takes little to no effort to adapt to the changes.

Will you admit you are too stubborn to change?

Are you too stuborn to admit that there will ever be merit to an opposing arguement, reguardless of who or where that arguement comes from?

FlyLionel · June 2017

Remember on an ESO live when battlespirit was glitched on PC and console was next to get the incremental patch? They didn't even remove that bug and basically said deal with it...

Asardes · June 2017

IMO the CP decision was good, the gear bonus one not that good. Gear cost reduction and recovery bonus per piece of light/medium should have stayed the same.