Mrs_Malaka wrote: »you can select specific dungeons you would like to queue for.
just uncheck the boxes of the dungeons that you don't want to do ("2" and DLC dungeons in your case)
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »As someone who ran through those dungeons before they were nerfed the first time it's learning the mechanics will change how smooth it goes.
The unfortunate part is all the nerfs that have occurred in quests prevent players from learning to recognize when they need to bash (interrupt).
However, what kills most in dungeons is not watching from obvious signs of damage. The little red markers. Make sure battle queues is on. Practice makes perfect.
Oh, and make sure both of you are using level and role appropriate blue food. At least one stat should be max health. Do not use drink that only provides regen. These health will increase your survival.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »You said exactly what I said. It comes down to learning the mechanics.
Dungeons at one time scaled to the group leaders level. That was a problem because people would make a low level player the leader then when they started the low level player often would just leave group so someone else could join. You also have to take into account there are very experienced players on low level characters that easily go through these same dungeons. Making it even easier would make the dungeons almost worthless in terms of having fun.
Personally I would say enjoy the struggle while you can. Work on mechanics but if it starts getting frustrating take a break and maybe queue for a different dungeon. With four inexperienced players it is a great time to try and figure a few things out. If the tank can't bring everything in you have some options. The tank can agro the boss then walk him to the ads. If the healer or DPS gets agro they can go to the tank dragging the evil doers with them. Some fights you want the tank to keep the boss busy and some you want the tank to ignore the boss and keep the ads busy. If you don't struggle through and learn the mechanics on normal they are really going to rip into you when you step up to vet.
It won't be long before you can easily walk through most content in the game and will be longing for a challenge. So again I say enjoy the struggle while you can.
And there is nothing at all wrong with not being able to finish a dungeon. If it gets to where it isn't fun just agree hey this isn't going to work and go from there.
Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Dungeons at one time scaled to the group leaders level. That was a problem because people would make a low level player the leader then when they started the low level player often would just leave group so someone else could join. You also have to take into account there are very experienced players on low level characters that easily go through these same dungeons. Making it even easier would make the dungeons almost worthless in terms of having fun.
Personally I would say enjoy the struggle while you can. Work on mechanics but if it starts getting frustrating take a break and maybe queue for a different dungeon. With four inexperienced players it is a great time to try and figure a few things out. If the tank can't bring everything in you have some options. The tank can agro the boss then walk him to the ads. If the healer or DPS gets agro they can go to the tank dragging the evil doers with them. Some fights you want the tank to keep the boss busy and some you want the tank to ignore the boss and keep the ads busy. If you don't struggle through and learn the mechanics on normal they are really going to rip into you when you step up to vet.
It won't be long before you can easily walk through most content in the game and will be longing for a challenge. So again I say enjoy the struggle while you can.
And there is nothing at all wrong with not being able to finish a dungeon. If it gets to where it isn't fun just agree hey this isn't going to work and go from there.
I can't help but feel you're misunderstanding my point. I'm relatively new to this game, but I've raided in 2 MMOs prior to coming here. I can adapt to mechanics relatively easily, but most groups, in my experience, cannot. The failure rate on a group of 3-4 new players in a II or DLC dungeon seems to be almost 100%. That goes beyond "enjoying learning the mechanics", that's miserable. That's how you get your new playerbase to quit.
If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't. There's no ramp up either - ____ 1 is usually easy for any group and ____ II is usually brutally difficult for a new group. The fact that there's no in-between and they're all in the same randomized list for the exact same reward is just poor design, plain and simple.
Edit: and I know it's not every II boss, but it's enough of them that it'll often derail the run due to the linear nature of most of the dungeons that makes most bosses un-skippable.
Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Dungeons at one time scaled to the group leaders level. That was a problem because people would make a low level player the leader then when they started the low level player often would just leave group so someone else could join. You also have to take into account there are very experienced players on low level characters that easily go through these same dungeons. Making it even easier would make the dungeons almost worthless in terms of having fun.
Personally I would say enjoy the struggle while you can. Work on mechanics but if it starts getting frustrating take a break and maybe queue for a different dungeon. With four inexperienced players it is a great time to try and figure a few things out. If the tank can't bring everything in you have some options. The tank can agro the boss then walk him to the ads. If the healer or DPS gets agro they can go to the tank dragging the evil doers with them. Some fights you want the tank to keep the boss busy and some you want the tank to ignore the boss and keep the ads busy. If you don't struggle through and learn the mechanics on normal they are really going to rip into you when you step up to vet.
It won't be long before you can easily walk through most content in the game and will be longing for a challenge. So again I say enjoy the struggle while you can.
And there is nothing at all wrong with not being able to finish a dungeon. If it gets to where it isn't fun just agree hey this isn't going to work and go from there.
I can't help but feel you're misunderstanding my point. I'm relatively new to this game, but I've raided in 2 MMOs prior to coming here. I can adapt to mechanics relatively easily, but most groups, in my experience, cannot. The failure rate on a group of 3-4 new players in a II or DLC dungeon seems to be almost 100%. That goes beyond "enjoying learning the mechanics", that's miserable. That's how you get your new playerbase to quit.
If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't. There's no ramp up either - ____ 1 is usually easy for any group and ____ II is usually brutally difficult for a new group. The fact that there's no in-between and they're all in the same randomized list for the exact same reward is just poor design, plain and simple.
Edit: and I know it's not every II boss, but it's enough of them that it'll often derail the run due to the linear nature of most of the dungeons that makes most bosses un-skippable.
No I understood your point. The problem is if you create separate queues your wait goes from two hours to ???. And again if it is miserable you leave that dungeon and queue for a different one. At some point and time new players are going to have to learn to deal with the mechanics. I've been in groups that after several fails we waited for someone to search for an answer then we would try that. Sometimes we were able to defeat the boss and sometimes not.
I do wish experienced players would spend more time in random dungeons when they are grouped with new players instead of just rushing through and carrying them. That would help a ton. When some friends and I were learning we sometimes went in with a three strikes and we are out rule. Meaning if we wipe to the same boss three times we find something else to do. Sure there is some tough content for players new to the game and MMOs in general but trust me, it will not take long before you are enjoying that tougher content.
Direfrost, Arx Coriunium, Selene's Web, Blackheart Haven...Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So, I think there are 2 options to address this:
1) Scale down more than just the health / resistances / etc of the bosses in these dungeons. Adjust the actual mechanics so that they scale to the player as well
2) Remove "2" dungeons and DLC dungeons from the random normal que for players below 50 or CP 160, or even both.
You do know you can select more than one dungeon at a time (multiple selections) under the "Specific" queue page, right?Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't.
A while back I proposed 3 separate random queues with 3 separate daily quest rewards: Normal I & II, Normal DLC and Veteran.
While Normal II is a bit harder than Normal I, I think even new players can manage. The mechanics in the DLC ones are a bit to complicated for new players, I think.
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Direfrost, Arx Coriunium, Selene's Web, Blackheart Haven...Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So, I think there are 2 options to address this:
1) Scale down more than just the health / resistances / etc of the bosses in these dungeons. Adjust the actual mechanics so that they scale to the player as well
2) Remove "2" dungeons and DLC dungeons from the random normal que for players below 50 or CP 160, or even both.
You mistakenly think that there are not version I dungeons that can't kick the crap out of you as newish player.
Nothing needs to be scaled down - normal mode has already handed that to done that for you. You're already scaled to CP160 from the moment you first log in.
The randoms are intended to promote playing the dungeons, but are also intended to be a bonus for seasoned dungeoneers.
Just as you would avoid the version II dungeons and the DLC dungeons until you are comfortable and capable, perhaps the random queue should be the same, since any of those are a possibility?
You still get really good experience (XP) from running dungeons, and you get really good experience from running the dungeons.
Queue for the Version I dungeons until you're better at overcoming them - they're there to teach you many of the mechanics of the game and group gameplay. Once you're comfortable with that, proceed to the version II's, then the DLC's.
Somewhere in the middle you can start being confident enough in your group and your character to queue up for randoms.
They're intended to be an accomplishment, though much less than what they once were. Allow them to be just that, vice asking for them to be nerfed even further than they already have been.
There are 100's of ways to get XP's as a low level character, having the dungeon dumbed down doesn't need to be one of them.
And, regarding option 2, it's not the level of your character(s) that is the issue. It's learning the mechanics and group play. There are (scaled) lower level characters that can finish these and want the challenge. Removing it as even a possibility prevents that.
That's what the "Specific Dungeon" queue is for...
TL;DR These are to help you get better. Simply making them easier does not accomplish that.You do know you can select more than one dungeon at a time (multiple selections) under the "Specific" queue page, right?Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't.
This will let you have your separate "only these please?" queue you're requesting. You simply won't get the bonus from the daily.
Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Direfrost, Arx Coriunium, Selene's Web, Blackheart Haven...Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So, I think there are 2 options to address this:
1) Scale down more than just the health / resistances / etc of the bosses in these dungeons. Adjust the actual mechanics so that they scale to the player as well
2) Remove "2" dungeons and DLC dungeons from the random normal que for players below 50 or CP 160, or even both.
You mistakenly think that there are not version I dungeons that can't kick the crap out of you as newish player.
Nothing needs to be scaled down - normal mode has already handed that to done that for you. You're already scaled to CP160 from the moment you first log in.
The randoms are intended to promote playing the dungeons, but are also intended to be a bonus for seasoned dungeoneers.
Just as you would avoid the version II dungeons and the DLC dungeons until you are comfortable and capable, perhaps the random queue should be the same, since any of those are a possibility?
You still get really good experience (XP) from running dungeons, and you get really good experience from running the dungeons.
Queue for the Version I dungeons until you're better at overcoming them - they're there to teach you many of the mechanics of the game and group gameplay. Once you're comfortable with that, proceed to the version II's, then the DLC's.
Somewhere in the middle you can start being confident enough in your group and your character to queue up for randoms.
They're intended to be an accomplishment, though much less than what they once were. Allow them to be just that, vice asking for them to be nerfed even further than they already have been.
There are 100's of ways to get XP's as a low level character, having the dungeon dumbed down doesn't need to be one of them.
And, regarding option 2, it's not the level of your character(s) that is the issue. It's learning the mechanics and group play. There are (scaled) lower level characters that can finish these and want the challenge. Removing it as even a possibility prevents that.
That's what the "Specific Dungeon" queue is for...
TL;DR These are to help you get better. Simply making them easier does not accomplish that.You do know you can select more than one dungeon at a time (multiple selections) under the "Specific" queue page, right?Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't.
This will let you have your separate "only these please?" queue you're requesting. You simply won't get the bonus from the daily.
But then why even have a random que if only a select few are able to get anything out of it? You're part of the camp that's just suggesting we work around something that was poorly designed to begin with. If the intent truly WAS to give new players the chance to be thrust into extremely challenging content that is often uncompletable for groups, then they need to re-think their intent.
And the XP from doing a dungeon without the bonus is actually pretty bad for any level. At that point, questing is usually faster. But sometimes, you just wanna kill things in a dungeon, ya know? It'd be great if new players had that option without having to worry about extreme difficulty (like they do in literally every other MMO....). Again, a separate random que for II dungeons and DLC would address this. IIs and DLC are basically experts / veterans compared to the 1s anyway, it just makes sense.
And no, it's not always just mechanics either. In the example I gave in my original post, I note that it wasn't even the AOE that was ultimately stopping us from beating the boss, it was how she would summon adds faster than we could kill them, and they were overwhelming us. It was mostly a dps issue, that boss essentially has a dps check that new players will struggle to deal with, purely because of gear and rotations - things that new players should not have to be thinking about yet.
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Direfrost, Arx Coriunium, Selene's Web, Blackheart Haven...Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So, I think there are 2 options to address this:
1) Scale down more than just the health / resistances / etc of the bosses in these dungeons. Adjust the actual mechanics so that they scale to the player as well
2) Remove "2" dungeons and DLC dungeons from the random normal que for players below 50 or CP 160, or even both.
You mistakenly think that there are not version I dungeons that can't kick the crap out of you as newish player.
Nothing needs to be scaled down - normal mode has already handed that to done that for you. You're already scaled to CP160 from the moment you first log in.
The randoms are intended to promote playing the dungeons, but are also intended to be a bonus for seasoned dungeoneers.
Just as you would avoid the version II dungeons and the DLC dungeons until you are comfortable and capable, perhaps the random queue should be the same, since any of those are a possibility?
You still get really good experience (XP) from running dungeons, and you get really good experience from running the dungeons.
Queue for the Version I dungeons until you're better at overcoming them - they're there to teach you many of the mechanics of the game and group gameplay. Once you're comfortable with that, proceed to the version II's, then the DLC's.
Somewhere in the middle you can start being confident enough in your group and your character to queue up for randoms.
They're intended to be an accomplishment, though much less than what they once were. Allow them to be just that, vice asking for them to be nerfed even further than they already have been.
There are 100's of ways to get XP's as a low level character, having the dungeon dumbed down doesn't need to be one of them.
And, regarding option 2, it's not the level of your character(s) that is the issue. It's learning the mechanics and group play. There are (scaled) lower level characters that can finish these and want the challenge. Removing it as even a possibility prevents that.
That's what the "Specific Dungeon" queue is for...
TL;DR These are to help you get better. Simply making them easier does not accomplish that.You do know you can select more than one dungeon at a time (multiple selections) under the "Specific" queue page, right?Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't.
This will let you have your separate "only these please?" queue you're requesting. You simply won't get the bonus from the daily.
But then why even have a random que if only a select few are able to get anything out of it? You're part of the camp that's just suggesting we work around something that was poorly designed to begin with. If the intent truly WAS to give new players the chance to be thrust into extremely challenging content that is often uncompletable for groups, then they need to re-think their intent.
And the XP from doing a dungeon without the bonus is actually pretty bad for any level. At that point, questing is usually faster. But sometimes, you just wanna kill things in a dungeon, ya know? It'd be great if new players had that option without having to worry about extreme difficulty (like they do in literally every other MMO....). Again, a separate random que for II dungeons and DLC would address this. IIs and DLC are basically experts / veterans compared to the 1s anyway, it just makes sense.
And no, it's not always just mechanics either. In the example I gave in my original post, I note that it wasn't even the AOE that was ultimately stopping us from beating the boss, it was how she would summon adds faster than we could kill them, and they were overwhelming us. It was mostly a dps issue, that boss essentially has a dps check that new players will struggle to deal with, purely because of gear and rotations - things that new players should not have to be thinking about yet.
Prior to scaling (in its current form), zones where scaled (each being basically 10 levels worth) and the 4 man within much the same. You didn't step into a level 40 dungeon with a level 20 character (unless you were very, very proficient).
It allowed a natural progression - the dungeons got harder, the mechanics got harder, your character(s) and group improved. Having the random as an option at all is a gift compared to what it once was. Group finder was nonexistant for the longest time.
Why do you think further reducing the difficulty of the dungeons will improve you or your groups gameplay? How does that honestly benefit you?
You level, you learn, you get better. You speak as if it's going to forever be an impossibility, and it isn't.
It's not just a select few that are able to get anything out of it. Many of us did Tier 1 (level 10-12) and Tier 2 dungeons at or near the associated levels. Some of us hit (then) max level almost exclusively doing 4 man content.
You have access to much more than many of us did leveling up. Not all of it is intended to be, nor should be, a walk in the park at any given level, however.
If you are simply "allowed" a completion in order to pass a specific content or to receive an XP bonus, there is no real benefit for you or your character.
Level 50 takes fifty hours...if you linger. If you don't find a way now and have complaint about the Version II's of the dungeons, you're in for a painful step when you first check the box that says "Vet."
Don't request nerf or accommodation for what you can't do (right now). Focus on what you can. You will get better, it will get easier.
Run the dungeons because you enjoy them. Run the dungeons to learn the mechanics, the group play, new strategies that will be different with each and every group makeup you ever have. That is the intention of the dungeons. That is the intention of the group finder, random or otherwise.
The intent is to get you in the door. The intent is not to guarantee a completion. Gating it behind someone else's perceived difficulty level takes away from your possibilities. It doesn't add to them.
The only things that should be excluded from RGF are DLC's you do not own. The fact that they even included another option (other than random) to select multiples of your choosing is a gift in itself.
Make use of it, don't, or walk in the dungeon front door the way everyone else once had to. Choice is yours.
Retention is fine. I'm not putting difficulty on a pedestal at all. Completion of those dungeons is quite attainable and does not require some kind of l33t build or mentality. You're making it sound as if the majority wants to be able to autopilot through the game.Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »If this is honestly Zenimax's stance on all of this, then their PvE player retention must be awful. You're putting difficulty on a pedestal like it's what everyone aspires to reach. News flash - some players just want to be able to faceroll mobs and bosses, especially new players. If they're failing every other random dungeon because they keep getting IIs and DLCs, they may not stick around long. Not everyone is into Dark Souls, especially considering a lot of the new players are probably Bethesda game veterans.
Yes, I'm saying there are some players who still want to enjoy themselves without pushing themselves to get better. In fact, I'd say a majority are like that (gasp!). There needs to be a compromise in scaling for these players or they need to be forcibly excluded from ques, both to retain them and to allow those of us who get stuck in dungeons with them to succeed.
No the problem is not the dungeons, they offer an nice progression from very easy like banish cell 1 to the very hard vIcP.Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Direfrost, Arx Coriunium, Selene's Web, Blackheart Haven...Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So, I think there are 2 options to address this:
1) Scale down more than just the health / resistances / etc of the bosses in these dungeons. Adjust the actual mechanics so that they scale to the player as well
2) Remove "2" dungeons and DLC dungeons from the random normal que for players below 50 or CP 160, or even both.
You mistakenly think that there are not version I dungeons that can't kick the crap out of you as newish player.
Nothing needs to be scaled down - normal mode has already handed that to done that for you. You're already scaled to CP160 from the moment you first log in.
The randoms are intended to promote playing the dungeons, but are also intended to be a bonus for seasoned dungeoneers.
Just as you would avoid the version II dungeons and the DLC dungeons until you are comfortable and capable, perhaps the random queue should be the same, since any of those are a possibility?
You still get really good experience (XP) from running dungeons, and you get really good experience from running the dungeons.
Queue for the Version I dungeons until you're better at overcoming them - they're there to teach you many of the mechanics of the game and group gameplay. Once you're comfortable with that, proceed to the version II's, then the DLC's.
Somewhere in the middle you can start being confident enough in your group and your character to queue up for randoms.
They're intended to be an accomplishment, though much less than what they once were. Allow them to be just that, vice asking for them to be nerfed even further than they already have been.
There are 100's of ways to get XP's as a low level character, having the dungeon dumbed down doesn't need to be one of them.
And, regarding option 2, it's not the level of your character(s) that is the issue. It's learning the mechanics and group play. There are (scaled) lower level characters that can finish these and want the challenge. Removing it as even a possibility prevents that.
That's what the "Specific Dungeon" queue is for...
TL;DR These are to help you get better. Simply making them easier does not accomplish that.You do know you can select more than one dungeon at a time (multiple selections) under the "Specific" queue page, right?Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »If you want a challenge, that's fine but there should be a separate que for it. Those new players who feel they aren't yet ready for such a challenge but want to do a dungeon or two should also have random que options, because right now they really don't.
This will let you have your separate "only these please?" queue you're requesting. You simply won't get the bonus from the daily.
But then why even have a random que if only a select few are able to get anything out of it? You're part of the camp that's just suggesting we work around something that was poorly designed to begin with. If the intent truly WAS to give new players the chance to be thrust into extremely challenging content that is often uncompletable for groups, then they need to re-think their intent.
And the XP from doing a dungeon without the bonus is actually pretty bad for any level. At that point, questing is usually faster. But sometimes, you just wanna kill things in a dungeon, ya know? It'd be great if new players had that option without having to worry about extreme difficulty (like they do in literally every other MMO....). Again, a separate random que for II dungeons and DLC would address this. IIs and DLC are basically experts / veterans compared to the 1s anyway, it just makes sense.
And no, it's not always just mechanics either. In the example I gave in my original post, I note that it wasn't even the AOE that was ultimately stopping us from beating the boss, it was how she would summon adds faster than we could kill them, and they were overwhelming us. It was mostly a dps issue, that boss essentially has a dps check that new players will struggle to deal with, purely because of gear and rotations - things that new players should not have to be thinking about yet.
Prior to scaling (in its current form), zones where scaled (each being basically 10 levels worth) and the 4 man within much the same. You didn't step into a level 40 dungeon with a level 20 character (unless you were very, very proficient).
It allowed a natural progression - the dungeons got harder, the mechanics got harder, your character(s) and group improved. Having the random as an option at all is a gift compared to what it once was. Group finder was nonexistant for the longest time.
Why do you think further reducing the difficulty of the dungeons will improve you or your groups gameplay? How does that honestly benefit you?
You level, you learn, you get better. You speak as if it's going to forever be an impossibility, and it isn't.
It's not just a select few that are able to get anything out of it. Many of us did Tier 1 (level 10-12) and Tier 2 dungeons at or near the associated levels. Some of us hit (then) max level almost exclusively doing 4 man content.
You have access to much more than many of us did leveling up. Not all of it is intended to be, nor should be, a walk in the park at any given level, however.
If you are simply "allowed" a completion in order to pass a specific content or to receive an XP bonus, there is no real benefit for you or your character.
Level 50 takes fifty hours...if you linger. If you don't find a way now and have complaint about the Version II's of the dungeons, you're in for a painful step when you first check the box that says "Vet."
Don't request nerf or accommodation for what you can't do (right now). Focus on what you can. You will get better, it will get easier.
Run the dungeons because you enjoy them. Run the dungeons to learn the mechanics, the group play, new strategies that will be different with each and every group makeup you ever have. That is the intention of the dungeons. That is the intention of the group finder, random or otherwise.
The intent is to get you in the door. The intent is not to guarantee a completion. Gating it behind someone else's perceived difficulty level takes away from your possibilities. It doesn't add to them.
The only things that should be excluded from RGF are DLC's you do not own. The fact that they even included another option (other than random) to select multiples of your choosing is a gift in itself.
Make use of it, don't, or walk in the dungeon front door the way everyone else once had to. Choice is yours.
If this is honestly Zenimax's stance on all of this, then their PvE player retention must be awful. You're putting difficulty on a pedestal like it's what everyone aspires to reach. News flash - some players just want to be able to faceroll mobs and bosses, especially new players. If they're failing every other random dungeon because they keep getting IIs and DLCs, they may not stick around long. Not everyone is into Dark Souls, especially considering a lot of the new players are probably Bethesda game veterans.
Yes, I'm saying there are some players who still want to enjoy themselves without pushing themselves to get better. In fact, I'd say a majority are like that (gasp!). There needs to be a compromise in scaling for these players or they need to be forcibly excluded from ques, both to retain them and to allow those of us who get stuck in dungeons with them to succeed.
Simple mechanics are fine, but nothing that can easily cause wipes - to put new players in this situation is bad design. It is how you drive them away. You need to understand the casual mentality. Again, look at WoW - you don't see new players doing expert dungeons, because even if they scaled the health down, the mechanics and dps checks would still tear them apart.
And sure, you don't HAVE to do dungeons while leveling, but it'd be nice if one of the main features of PvE were actually useful for everyone. Right now, it's just Russian roulette if you're Below 50 - heck, even at 50 they're tough with low CP.
Let me be clear on this last point: this isn't really about me. Yes, it would be nice for both my alt and main if I could join the random normal que without worrying about whether or not it'll be a cakewalk or uncompletable, but I can deal with it. I'm thinking more about players like my friend who are new to MMOs and will just walk away when put in situations like that. Otherwise good players with great potential, spurned because the game decided to crank things up to eleven before they even hit max level.
Dungeon difficulty progression made much more sense before 1 Tamriel, when everything had level brackets? I'm sure it did, and that's great, but that's clearly not the case anymore. Zenimax needs to take responsibility for the changes they brought about and overhaul the random dungeon finder.
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »One other less obvious benefit behind not being able to just blow through any content is a skill that only comes with experience.
Sometimes you need to learn when to "call it." because, for whatever reason, the end result's not going to happen.
If you don't run into the occasional brick wall and learn to what to look for (and why it won't work - such as your S&B DPS example), you won't know when no amount of time spent will yield the desired result.
Most experienced players probably have a pretty good idea if it's gonna happen or not after the first big pull.
"Games are meant to be escapist in nature, the higher difficulty stuff should come in the middle / at the end and be in its own separate category. And again, some of us don't have 2 hours to spend in a dungeon when we que up for a random normal, and don't always have gulidies online to run with. If your answer to that is just "oh well", then I pray you never go into game design."
That is how the game used to be (tiered levels). Problem being players were advancing levels beyond the content they were playing. It got stagnant really quick. So a change was made so players could no matter their level go pretty much anywhere they wanted.
Until a player is ready to run all the dungeons it might be prudent for them to not queue for a random dungeon. Do a few of the easier dungeons then try the tougher ones. Sure you miss out on some experience points but those will come quick enough.
And I still stand by my point that at some point and time you are going to have to deal with mechanics. Being max level and unaware of mechanics can lead to just as quick a disaster in a group as being low level and not familiar with mechanics.
Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »"Games are meant to be escapist in nature, the higher difficulty stuff should come in the middle / at the end and be in its own separate category. And again, some of us don't have 2 hours to spend in a dungeon when we que up for a random normal, and don't always have gulidies online to run with. If your answer to that is just "oh well", then I pray you never go into game design."
That is how the game used to be (tiered levels). Problem being players were advancing levels beyond the content they were playing. It got stagnant really quick. So a change was made so players could no matter their level go pretty much anywhere they wanted.
Until a player is ready to run all the dungeons it might be prudent for them to not queue for a random dungeon. Do a few of the easier dungeons then try the tougher ones. Sure you miss out on some experience points but those will come quick enough.
And I still stand by my point that at some point and time you are going to have to deal with mechanics. Being max level and unaware of mechanics can lead to just as quick a disaster in a group as being low level and not familiar with mechanics.
So you're agreeing that the random normal que is broken, and go on to suggest that new players just avoid it? It all just seems like workarounds instead of addressing the actual problem, which is that the que is not working as intended.
I'm of the opinion that if a feature in the game is available to a player, it should work for them. A true level 25 player being dumped into a II dungeon or a DLC dungeon from a solo que isn't my definition of "working".
And I wholeheartedly agree that, at some point, you will have to address mechanics and dps checks and all that good stuff to progress. However, that point happens much too early and too arbitrarily with this dungeon que the way it is now.
And @Kneighbors I understand that can also be the case, which is why there would be alternate random ques for each tier of dungeons. You would be able to check 1, 2, or all 3 if you wished. It's the simplest solution to this problem.