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so ESO is going to be p2w for just/even casuals who want just achievs/titles
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WarMasterCyp✭✭✭I don't think you should be focus on achievements when it comes to ESO, I don't bother with achievements nor care about achievements they mean nothing to me.0 -
Drogo50✭✭✭for me its just pathetic how I want to get all possible achievs but except those from expansion because I dont have it because reasons and then I see Im forced to but this pathetic expanstion to just get other achiev with title from event and then I will be stuck with missing achievs from basic game because it need in hide stupid expansion
Might want to run this by your ESL teacher.I can stare at a knot in a piece of wood
until it frightens me.0 -
Makato✭✭✭I bought the game and won a duel... is that considered P2W aswell ?PC/EU
All factions all classes
Autocorrect does not care bout what i write so i don't care bout my spelling
LIZZURD IS LOVE LIZZURD IS LIFE !2 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have some bad new OP. There's four pages of achievements you won't be able to get because you won't buy Morrowind. (No one tell him about the IC, Orsinium, DB, TG achievement list either.)Edited by Dominoid on May 28, 2017 3:45AM2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have some bad new OP. There's three pages of achievements you won't be able to get because you won't buy Morrowind. (No one tell him about the IC, Orsinium, DB, TG achievement list either.)
because this
Pretty much thisShedsHisTail wrote: »And you "win" when you get all the achievements, that's how it works?
But, I mean, you realize you have to buy the expansion to get -all- the achievements included in that expansion, right?
You need Imperial city for another achievement.
And why not include battlegrounds and IC in an PvP event?
but as for IC it isnt that big problem as battleground because it just need to have eso+ which much cheaper for 1 month, is giving many more additional "rewards" and acsess to all dlc without buying it
1 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭ESO is P2W.
World of Warcraft is P2W.
Final Fantasy XIV is P2W.
Guild Wars 2 is P2W.
In WoW, FFXIV and GW2, you NEED to buy the Expansions to have your level increased, to have the best gear, the best items.
I don't see any of this in ESO. Morrowind and Update 14 are completely different things. If ESO were equal to other MMOs, you would need to buy Morrowind to gain access to Champion Points 630!2 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Threads like this are evidence that kids don't know what pay to win is anymore."Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have some bad new OP. There's three pages of achievements you won't be able to get because you won't buy Morrowind. (No one tell him about the IC, Orsinium, DB, TG achievement list either.)
because this
Pretty much thisShedsHisTail wrote: »And you "win" when you get all the achievements, that's how it works?
But, I mean, you realize you have to buy the expansion to get -all- the achievements included in that expansion, right?
You need Imperial city for another achievement.
And why not include battlegrounds and IC in an PvP event?
but as for IC it isnt that big problem as battleground because it just need to have eso+ which much cheaper for 1 month, is giving many more additional "rewards" and acsess to all dlc without buying it
ah, so the issue is not that you need to pay, its that you are so cheap that you don't want to pay the asking price of morowind. since you know that one month subscription for TEMPORARY acess to DLC's doesn't seem to bother you as much as $40 for PERMANENT acess to morrowind.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I fully agree with OP. This Achievement is only there to force "Achievement Collectors" to Buy Morrowid DLC sorry "Chapter" to try out Battlegrounds - only to find out that it is always a team of 4 Premade, vs 4 noobs from group finder with no hopes to win.
So... even if I don't usually do PvP - other achievements are fine and relatively easy to get even if you are not good at PvP.
It should simply not count towards the title you can unlock in new event. Other events did not require to own for example Dark Brotherhood DLC to get a title.. so why this requires this ? ?
Well... there is only one answer for that:But hey... with no good guilds you simply have no hopes to win a single match of Battlegrounds... Those are not ranked games... there is no "tiers" or leagues...
2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have some bad new OP. There's three pages of achievements you won't be able to get because you won't buy Morrowind. (No one tell him about the IC, Orsinium, DB, TG achievement list either.)
because this
Pretty much thisShedsHisTail wrote: »And you "win" when you get all the achievements, that's how it works?
But, I mean, you realize you have to buy the expansion to get -all- the achievements included in that expansion, right?
You need Imperial city for another achievement.
And why not include battlegrounds and IC in an PvP event?
but as for IC it isnt that big problem as battleground because it just need to have eso+ which much cheaper for 1 month, is giving many more additional "rewards" and acsess to all dlc without buying it
ah, so the issue is not that you need to pay, its that you are so cheap that you don't want to pay the asking price of morowind. since you know that one month subscription for TEMPORARY acess to DLC's doesn't seem to bother you as much as $40 for PERMANENT acess to morrowind.
while most of pve players have at all active eso+ because its big facilitation and they dont need to buy those dlc and at all dlc's are very cheap in compare to morrowind like pvp player dont need that much craft bag, eso + because ono pvp its not very needed and also most of pvp players who dont have eso + they simply have just IC dlc because for 1st just next pvp thing which is not much in game and is cheap as just dlc0 -
Caligamy_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think perhaps the thing that is bugging the OP here is how he's going to be excluded from completing a Holiday Event because of not having a DLC, and not necessarily the silly title that people seem to be assuming is the problem here. Half the people in this thread seem to think the picture is a DLC achievement list, it's not.. it is a holiday event. Something holiday events so far have steered clear of is being locked behind paywalls, until now.
It's definitely not a p2w issue, but many other things in this game already are in a way. Velidreth set, battlegrounds sets, defiler/war maiden, julianos, tava's, black rose, all exclusive to DLC areas and give a sizable advantage in combat, this list could go on.. Sure there are alternative ways you could obtain them by other means, and some by sheer luck or waiting forever for it to happen (golden vendor), but p2w does already exist in ESO in a form. ZoS continues to slide down this slippery slope more and more, and seems no matter what they do people will jump at the opportunity to defend/justify it.love is love3 -
P2W an achievment ? OMG guy you want a P2W game ? go play Black Desert Online or World of Tanks and you will see...0 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭Yes, the biggest problem is the winning requirement but no holiday event should be beyond the base game so all players can complete it. People have said that IC is required for one and that must be Jesters since that's the only once I missed. Did it require you to be Emperor or something? I'm a little used to expansions being incorporated into events over time (I have a number in WoW that now require things I haven't bought). But even WoW recognizes some of their players will never win anything so participation is the only requirement really. Even more surprised that if battlegrounds are so much in mind that the que is so easily broken. I'm not sure why this one holiday does this and ignores the others honestly. That's where they just reinforce this narrative that its about the money above all else. I don't get this mindset of theirs because its a good game. Great in some parts. This constant need to find some method of getting more money from players is worse than any other game I've played for how blatant it is. Surely at some point they're going to realize the damage to their representation. The only reason not to care is no plans for any future games and don't see/plan for this one to last as long as most games like this (10+ years).
I still don't see why battlegrounds isn't a base game update that arrived with Morrowind. Was Cyrodiil impossible to enter before IC? Not that anyone can play them now but there's nothing about them that relates to Morrowind to me. Dwarven backgrounds look like Dwarven backgrounds. I suppose this is a feature that might not have sold well in the store if it was purchasable but I've not encountered a game that wants PvP so badly that they will destroy parts of the PvE game to obtain it then put it behind a paywall so only a few can use it. Just who is leading this development team? A husband/wife going through divorce and using ESO to bash the other over the head? Someone who points at people and yells *** *** ***? That's a little Archie Comics reference I always thought was funny.2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have some bad new OP. There's three pages of achievements you won't be able to get because you won't buy Morrowind. (No one tell him about the IC, Orsinium, DB, TG achievement list either.)
because this
Pretty much thisShedsHisTail wrote: »And you "win" when you get all the achievements, that's how it works?
But, I mean, you realize you have to buy the expansion to get -all- the achievements included in that expansion, right?
You need Imperial city for another achievement.
And why not include battlegrounds and IC in an PvP event?
but as for IC it isnt that big problem as battleground because it just need to have eso+ which much cheaper for 1 month, is giving many more additional "rewards" and acsess to all dlc without buying it
ah, so the issue is not that you need to pay, its that you are so cheap that you don't want to pay the asking price of morowind. since you know that one month subscription for TEMPORARY acess to DLC's doesn't seem to bother you as much as $40 for PERMANENT acess to morrowind.
while most of pve players have at all active eso+ because its big facilitation and they dont need to buy those dlc and at all dlc's are very cheap in compare to morrowind like pvp player dont need that much craft bag, eso + because ono pvp its not very needed and also most of pvp players who dont have eso + they simply have just IC dlc because for 1st just next pvp thing which is not much in game and is cheap as just dlc
uh. if you buy those 4 DLC's outright - right now, after they bundled them, its $40. before that it was about twice that. shadows of hist that is just 2 dungeons is STILL $20. we have a limited time mount right now that is give or take $30. crown only housing - the cavern, costs over $80 worth of crowns, and before you say anything about how crowns come with ESO plus - ESO plus is NOT free, this is nearly 6 months of subscription we are talking about - just to buy a house. and speaking of subscription not being free, yes ESO plus comes with a whole bunch of bonuses, but DLC acess ig provides? is TEMPORARY. you. are paying. what amounts. to monthly RENT. $15 for one month's worth of acess. stop subscription? and your acess to the ACTUAL CONTENT is lost. and yet, all of a sudden $40 for PERMANENT ACCESS to dozens of hours of content is just too much and unfair and pay to win? where craft bag or double the space for housing is not? THINK what you are saying right now.
and btw, since WoW was brought up. people who claim WoW does not do this... you are not actualy playing it, are you? because guess what? every time they release an expansion? they add content from that expansion TO THEIR HOLIDAY ACHIEVEMENT META. they do this ALL THE TIME. hell, when they one time events that are anniversary of some sort? they require expansion and high level character JUST TO PARTICIPATE IN ONE OF THOSE. like diablo anniversary event that they had few month back? you HAD to have legion becasue the entirety of event was IN legion zones. and that's not once a year event we are talking about, that's once in a games LIFETIME.
last but not least. you can STILL participate in this event if you only have base game. you cannot complete the meta, but you CAN participate in it, as at least half the achievements in this event? are from base game.Edited by Linaleah on May 27, 2017 8:43PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not being able to get a title because of one achievement is kinda sucky.
But there would be even more people on here bashing down the doors if they had made a PvP event and not included BGs."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭yes right, you are missing even your own definition, pay to win means that you win an advantage if you pay. but a title gives you no advantage, it is just a title.
1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Linaleah
as I wrote before dlc is very much cheaper than this morrowind and content from dlc isnt poorer than content in "expansion"
and mostly you dont buying eso + for access to just 1 dlc and in other way you have many other benefits from this eso+
about craftbag and more decoration space in housing its also other way, if you dont pve to much you dont need that much craft bag atleast you can buy it once per few months to make again more space in bank/characters
now aabout "expanstion" which you have permamently.....for me how it is very poor and overpriced its not worth at all buy it for atlest battlegrounds or new trial....with example to wow where hoiliday events need expansions..you I think you forgot how BIG are expansions in wow and really worth while ESO "expansion" is poorer that dlc so they dare to name morrowind as expansion? this is just pathetic greed from zos...morrwind itself as for eso should be simply dlc, expansion to eso should be atlest 2x bigger than dlc like orsinum if not bigger to be worthed
they are selling that poor sad to name it expansion only thanks to nostalgia to morrowind for real TES fans...if not this nostalgia this will be the biggest and the most fmous fail from greed in MMO games0 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭and btw, since WoW was brought up. people who claim WoW does not do this... you are not actualy playing it, are you? because guess what? every time they release an expansion? they add content from that expansion TO THEIR HOLIDAY ACHIEVEMENT META. they do this ALL THE TIME. hell, when they one time events that are anniversary of some sort? they require expansion and high level character JUST TO PARTICIPATE IN ONE OF THOSE. like diablo anniversary event that they had few month back? you HAD to have legion becasue the entirety of event was IN legion zones. and that's not once a year event we are talking about, that's once in a games LIFETIME.
You are correct that WoW does this. EQ2 also. However, none of them require you to win at something. That's where the biggest problem is. Unfortunately, people are going to have to get used to holiday requiring current releases for the game. But however again, these holidays are just being added to the game. And this one singles out the one DLC you can only obtain with a new purchase of some kind. That just strikes me as odd. Where is Orsinium required in a holiday? None. Only the one DLC you must purchase and can't have access to as an ESO+. I know some believe requiring is unfair and unfair describes it perfectly since you don't need to be an ESO+ member even only buy something new. Now do you see why its an issue? Not just the winning part but that its the only one that can't you get as a subscriber or by with crowns? Also this isn't WoW or EQ2 so just because they do it one way doesn't mean ESO has to. Especially with the change in how this one is obtain.0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yes right, you are missing even your own definition, pay to win means that you win an advantage if you pay. but a title gives you no advantage, it is just a title.
This, pretty much.
There's already a ton of dlc-related titles, and having one more isnt a big deal in my opinion.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭and btw, since WoW was brought up. people who claim WoW does not do this... you are not actualy playing it, are you? because guess what? every time they release an expansion? they add content from that expansion TO THEIR HOLIDAY ACHIEVEMENT META. they do this ALL THE TIME. hell, when they one time events that are anniversary of some sort? they require expansion and high level character JUST TO PARTICIPATE IN ONE OF THOSE. like diablo anniversary event that they had few month back? you HAD to have legion becasue the entirety of event was IN legion zones. and that's not once a year event we are talking about, that's once in a games LIFETIME.
You are correct that WoW does this. EQ2 also. However, none of them require you to win at something. That's where the biggest problem is. Unfortunately, people are going to have to get used to holiday requiring current releases for the game. But however again, these holidays are just being added to the game. And this one singles out the one DLC you can only obtain with a new purchase of some kind. That just strikes me as odd. Where is Orsinium required in a holiday? None. Only the one DLC you must purchase and can't have access to as an ESO+. I know some believe requiring is unfair and unfair describes it perfectly since you don't need to be an ESO+ member even only buy something new. Now do you see why its an issue? Not just the winning part but that its the only one that can't you get as a subscriber or by with crowns? Also this isn't WoW or EQ2 so just because they do it one way doesn't mean ESO has to. Especially with the change in how this one is obtain.
uh. uh. sure they do. well, not sure about EQ, but http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=1786/school-of-hard-knocks this is part of the meta achievement for children's week which in turn is a part of another meta achievement. not saying its good (there is a reason why i never got "what a long strange trip it has been", and this would be it).
also, as I have mentioned before - they have holidays that require all expansions to complete the meta achievement. I bought this up SOLELY becasue the claim was that WoW doesn't do it. yeah, they do.
most mmo's that I know of - require expansion/DLC content for certain things. in most games - you cannot even REACH any sort of end game/max level unless you have expansion on your account that usually you had to buy separately.
nothing in this life is free. and I'm not seeing how its an issue STILL since 1. event is still accessible, even if its not all of the event. some purchase is required no matter what - whether you buy DLC's outright, or pay for ESO plus to acess them. so no I'm not seeing and issue with buying morrowind ESPECIALLY in context of a single. event.
now. I do think battlegrounds would be better if they were added to base game if only to immediately increase population of people that participate in them, but... I can also see why they are not. ZoS is a for profit company.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭For some reason, you still don't get it. Is Orsinium not an expansion of the game world? Hew's Bane? Gold Coast? I don't recall any achievement requiring you to preform a heist from Thieves Guild successfully. Only this one that requires Morrowind. Now then, what's different about them.
Do they add land mass? Yes. Do they add a new play type? Yes. Are they included with ESO+? No. Which one isn't? Morrowind. How do you obtain it? Real money. Now do you see the connection? I get that you're saying other games require future expansions as they drop which is true. Like I said, I have completed achievements in WoW that require something I do not own. But ESO doesn't require future expansions of the gaming world except for the one you need to shell out additional money for. The only one that is not included with ESO+ or purchasable with crowns. Essentially, to complete that achievement, you have to pass a new paywall.
Its nothing about if another game requires you to own all expansions to complete. Its that ESO only requires you to own the one and only one that isn't available except if you spend additional money. Once all previous DLCs are required in achievements then you can say ESO achievements require all past expansions to complete just like WoW, EQ, etc
I hope that clears it up and why it looks like this so called pay to win an achievement. There is being a for profit company and there's finding any way possible to make a profit from you players. WoW is upfront how it works. So is EQ2. And EQ2 is a completely free to play game but doesn't come close to approaching the lengths ESO will go for a buck. I own a lot of real estate and other assorted things there and have never seen that type of behavior. And its own by an investment firm which would blush at the tactics ESO employs.
Edited for some paragraphs
Edited by Galwylin on May 28, 2017 4:48AM0 -
FoulSnowpaw✭✭✭Lol I bet the OP spends more money on junkfood.
It's not pay to win buddy. It's you want that achievement. You don't need it.0 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think the game is only pumping out *** expansions why do you even care about achievements?1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For some reason, you still don't get it. Is Orsinium not an expansion of the game world? Hew's Bane? Gold Coast? I don't recall any achievement requiring you to preform a heist from Thieves Guild successfully. Only this one that requires Morrowind. Now then, what's different about them.
Do they add land mass? Yes. Do they add a new play type? Yes. Are they included with ESO+? No. Which one isn't? Morrowind. How do you obtain it? Real money. Now do you see the connection? I get that you're saying other games require future expansions as they drop which is true. Like I said, I have completed achievements in WoW that require something I do not own. But ESO doesn't require future expansions of the gaming world except for the one you need to shell out additional money for. The only one that is not included with ESO+ or purchasable with crowns. Essentially, to complete that achievement, you have to pass a new paywall.
Its nothing about if another game requires you to own all expansions to complete. Its that ESO only requires you to own the one and only one that isn't available except if you spend additional money. Once all previous DLCs are required in achievements then you can say ESO achievements require all past expansions to complete just like WoW, EQ, etc
I hope that clears it up and why it looks like this so called pay to win an achievement. There is being a for profit company and there's finding any way possible to make a profit from you players. WoW is upfront how it works. So is EQ2. And EQ2 is a completely free to play game but doesn't come close to approaching the lengths ESO will go for a buck. I own a lot of real estate and other assorted things there and have never seen that type of behavior. And its own by an investment firm which would blush at the tactics ESO employs.
Edited for some paragraphs
sigh. ESO plus requires REAL LIFE MONEY. you cannot complete anything in DLC unless you have either ESO plus, or buy DLC's outright. moreover - there are DLC associated achievements. entire tab of them. where you do in fact have to not just sucessfuly perform heists, but some of the achievements require that you perform them FLAWLESSLY (and in the end award titles). is the problem with TAB allocations within the achievements?
no the problem here the REAL problem is that you and OP think that paying $15 to rent content for a month is ok, but paying $40 to unlock it - is not. ESO is JUST as upfront with how things work. you just for some reason decided that this particular charge is not ok, while other charges - are.
and NONE of those achievements win the game in any way.Edited by Linaleah on May 28, 2017 5:19AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭Stop trying to change the argument. We're talking about a holiday achievement. If I hadn't bought the Gold edition, my monthly crowns would have went to the DLCs just in case I did decide to drop it. Like I said, there no holiday achievement requiring a perfect heist so not all previous content is required. Only the DLC that you can only get by spending extra money beyond a subscription to obtain. I bet no one would be talking p2w if this was Dark Brotherhood.
And I agree the P2W argument is flimsy as its impossible to win in any MMORPG yet people still claim P2W. That's not true even in games where you literally can buy a method to obtain something within the game that enables you to outperform others. You still never win. Maybe a fight? I dunno. I've just come to accept that P2W simply means I can obtain something in the game with a credit card you can't just by playing. Horse training is p2w to me for that reason. EXP potions or scrolls. Anything that lets a player do something others can't or takes longer with plastic. Now, can achievements be p2w. Apparently since if we both want to gain all of them and only by spending money can we both do that then I can see how they think its p2w.
I don't think anything is wrong with requiring all content in holiday achievements. Its standard in MMOs. The only one you have to buy extra though. That's me, you, every ESO+ subscriber, every million crown holder. All of us. If we want that achievement completed, we will spend extra money. If this isn't about money for poor almost on the street ZOS then that should have been something most players have in some fashion. However, they found a way to target people that like to complete holiday achievements. Is there someone there whose main job is to find every conceivable way to get people to buy this 'chapter'? Instead of providing quality product for you money, they'll just find ways to make you feel like you have to own it.
That's just a new way of business to me. I'm old school and think making quality is the best way to make sales. And the kicker is even if you shell out the extra, you still might see that holiday pass without achieving it. That is the best way possible to make a returning happy customer. Maybe if they can get that money clip out of their eyes, they'll see what they're really doing. ZO$ is right.1 -
Dracindo✭✭✭✭✭It's only €10-15 when the game lowers its price and goes on sale. Surely you can cough it up.
I understand why people are complaining about having to pay for the Warden class or Battlegrounds, but just to complete a few achievements?
Also, the achievement in between: Capture an Imperial District. Doesn't that require the Imperial City DLC, which also costs extra money (either for subscribing, G&G pack, gold edition)? Why aren't you complaining about that one?0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's only €10-15 when the game lowers its price and goes on sale. Surely you can cough it up.
I understand why people are complaining about having to pay for the Warden class or Battlegrounds, but just to complete a few achievements?
Also, the achievement in between: Capture an Imperial District. Doesn't that require the Imperial City DLC, which also costs extra money (either for subscribing, G&G pack, gold edition)? Why aren't you complaining about that one?
if you have read all posts in this thread uou will know why I have no problem with ic but with morrowind its much bigger problem as for just event achievs0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PAY TO WIN, REPEAT AFTER ME "PAY TO WIN"
A TITLE DOES NOT IMPROVE ANYONES CHANCE TO WIN AT ALL....
READ AFTER ME AGAIN "PAY TO WIN"...3
