Addressing Blazing Shield changes

Koolio · May 2017

Nevermind won't let me post meme

stevepdodson_ESO888 · May 2017

timidobserver wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

"Templar
Aedric Spear
Blazing Shield (Sun Shield morph): Reduced the amount of damage done by this morph to 33/36/39/42% of the damage absorbed by the shield, down from 50/51/52/53%.
Developer Comments:
Spoilerhide
Blazing Shield builds have proven to be extremely effective due to being able to stack Health to improve both their survivability and damage done. We’ve reduced the effectiveness of this ability so that there is more of an opportunity cost to having so much Health."

This is seriously the biggest problem they see in the game? It is already the hardest style to play to get any kills or AP on. The only anti-zerg skill in the game that can only kill anybody if there is no healers around. Having a lot of health does not mean you are a tank, there are a lot of unkillable tanks running around with less health, but there is no outrage there because just about everyone benefits from that, but the 1% of people who benefit from Blazing Shield builds are being made even harder to play because the 99% of zerglings on the forums complain about it.

Just about every decent players understanding of blazing shield is that it is an anti-zerg skill and people that are attacking them in large numbers should die in theory. In reality the more people on us the less damage we do because Breath of Life and Healing springs is ridiculously good even with the patch it will still be good.

If zos at least gave people attacking a blazing shield major defile or something I would be happy with that because we do zero damage with the presence of a mindless zerg healer

I also wish ZOS treated this forum like Blizzard forums, as in ignoring people who are whining and listening to those who actually have realistic changes or viewpoints of the game, people like me or Fengrush or Sypher are shunned by Zos for having their viewpoints while people crying here are winning, because if Blizzard did that to Starcraft or World of Warcraft the game would be broken because irrational people come up with irrational changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEhACMnttJ8

Yup, ZOS shunned them... right into their head quarters.

you forgot the all expenses paid bit, hotel, wining and dining and freebies...what a hard life for Sypher and Fengrush sitting on their backsides all day playing video games, my heart bleeds for them

Yoven · May 2017

This nerf to Blazing Shield was unnecessary. Period.

I for one would like to know what ZOS means by opportunity cost? Because this nerf to templars just fell from the sky.

"Blazing Shield builds have proven to be extremely effective due to being able to stack Health to improve both their survivability and damage done. We’ve reduced the effectiveness of this ability so that there is more of an opportunity cost to having so much Health."

Maybe @ZOS_GinaBruno is willing to shed some *burning* light on this last-minute Templar change?

raknorok · May 2017

Yoven wrote: »

This nerf to Blazing Shield was unnecessary. Period.

I for one would like to know what ZOS means by opportunity cost? Because this nerf to templars just fell from the sky.

"Blazing Shield builds have proven to be extremely effective due to being able to stack Health to improve both their survivability and damage done. We’ve reduced the effectiveness of this ability so that there is more of an opportunity cost to having so much Health."

Maybe @ZOS_GinaBruno is willing to shed some *burning* light on this last-minute Templar change?

and here I thought the opportunity cost of making blazing shield effective was to stack health and gimp every other damage skill in my kit. Blazing shields are being punished for being specialized.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2017

I dropped a million gold on switching my main to a blazing shield Templar in January. I switched it back within a week.

It was the most boring thing imaginable. Good on you guys who can make it work, but it wasn't for me.

Anyway, even though I understand your frustration, and I don't recall ever actually dying to a BST, I think this was a pretty necessary nerf for the overall health of the game. New players had no idea how to combat this strategy and I'd imagine that hammering on someone for a lengthy period of time would be rather disheartening to those who didn't know better.

Anyway, here's some advice. If you're smart enough to build an uber BST than you'll be smart enough to turn it into something else. Move it down to 30k health and you'll have so much left that you can stack other places your damage will go thru the roof.

You can even do what I did and switch it all over to magic (I'm at just under 52k now) and enjoy your 10k PVP shield.

winterbornb14_ESO · May 2017

raknorok wrote: »

My biggest gripe is we had a month long PTS and they wait til release day for this. There was no mention of this ever, they say they want to encourage diversity but thats a load of horse crap. Some people play one char, one build exclusively, the counter to this is pretty obvious, rather than stay outside the shield radius to avoid damage, just nerf it so its more easily healed thru.

The dev's are killing everything that made classes different. Luckily the customer service is awesome, It only took about 30minutes for my refund.

Refund for the DLC MorrowNerf or the core game?

Me and my wife are thinking about not playing anymore.

raknorok · May 2017

If you click support at the top of the page, than click web assistant on the right,
choose your platform
pick billing
in the drop down menu you can ask for a refund for Morrowind,

I did it first thing this morning when I decided I wasn't paying for more nerfs. If you don't login or access the content on live server, they should refund you. I'm not quitting, I just refuse to pay for content that I am unhappy with.

GeneralSezme · May 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Listen up guys, blazing shield got buffed, if you go huh now read this and then decide if it got nerfed or not:
Front loaded cp give you more damage+ there is now a new cp that increases your direct damage by up to 25% meaning you lose 10% of damage and gain even more due to other changes

that's percentage is halved in PvP and we shouldn't have to rely on cp for the build to be playable

Blackfyre20 · May 2017

GeneralSezme wrote: »

I also wish ZOS treated this forum like Blizzard forums, as in ignoring people who are whining and listening to those who actually have realistic changes or viewpoints of the game, people like me or Fengrush or Sypher...

Who are you...?

Would be cool to make the skill viable for templars who don't stack everything into health to troll people. Until that happens though, delete the skill for all I care.

raknorok · May 2017

ZOS you are overestimating how much I want to give you my money.
ZOS you are underestimating how stubborn some of us get nerf after nerf after nerf.
ZOS do any of you even play a blazing build or did you fail miserably and get rekt on PTS the past 2 weeks vs template chars.
ZOS why did you nerf templar again before you even put in your 'future balance changes' on the PTS.

Ask anyone on PTS with a clue for the past few weeks, Blazing shields died just like everyone else.

Baconlad · May 2017

Blazing shield tooltip will stay the same, it was technically a damage buff due to CP changes on PTS. they nerfed it back to exactly where it was damage wise with good CP allocation for the latest patch because they saw that you can get a 78% tooltip value on PTS.

Granted thats with slimcraws 8% damage boost, but still, coud get really high numbers on PTS with blazing shield

raknorok · May 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

Blazing shield tooltip will stay the same, it was technically a damage buff due to CP changes on PTS. they nerfed it back to exactly where it was damage wise with good CP allocation for the latest patch because they saw that you can get a 78% tooltip value on PTS.

Granted thats with slimcraws 8% damage boost, but still, coud get really high numbers on PTS with blazing shield

This is a buff if you were already secondary backup to the chubby kid who never gets picked for kickball.
The way that is phrased, blazing shield gets nerfed(non-CP) or stays the same(CP that could be spent elsewhere) but everyone else gets to benefit from new CP choices.

With PvP being mostly non-CP and what i've become accustomed to, this is a nerf.

idk · May 2017

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The idea behind the change is that builds with high survival should do less damage. Sound logic.

We have the worst survivabillity in the game, we have to run vampire, we have the worst healing in the game, low resist and 0 crit resistance so if we we are stunned and have no stamina we are dead. Like I said before there are way more unkillable tanks but there is no outrage about that because everyone benefits from that element of the game.

The only reason you have no stamina is from choice. You have put everything into health. Channeled focus helps with magika as well, more than being a vampire and the buff sticks for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.

I would suggest that you have two shields but just like your stamina, you probably have no magika or harness to scale off of.

It does not surprise me a PvP build that focuses only on health and expects to do damage and survive works well since both magika and stamina are required for survival. Health just increases the ttk a bit.

Waffennacht · May 2017

raknorok wrote: »

If your unhappy about it, put your money where your mouth is, do not log into live, apply for a refund. Take your $60 and go buy another premium game

A ton of players have, ever notice how fewer and fewer 600s + play anymore?

pieratsos · May 2017

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Not a Troll build its a build that punishes zergs, something zos should be encouraging

No its absolutely not. What they should be encouraging is skillful counterplay. Vicious death bomblades were also a counter to zergs. That didnt make the gameplay better nor did it break zergs. And its the same for your blazing shield build. It doesnt make the gameplay better nor it makes anything about breaking zergs. This dumb idea people have that anti zerg builds is the way to go to make PVP better is hilarious.

And if you actually believe for a second that only zergs dont like your build then u've been misinformed. The only difference between zerglings and good players when it comes to facing blazing shield builds is that good players just dont waste their time with troll builds. And no matter how u want to spin it, thats what blazing shield builds are. troll builds with 1 counter. Ignore them. Great gameplay you got there.

Also, comparing blazing shield builds with unkillable tanks is like comparing apples with oranges. The unkillable tanks are not a result of specific skills but because of game mechanics which is prety much what this update is hoping to fix.

Volrion · May 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This change was needed months ago. Runing 70k health and only spamming one button is not a real playstyle.

I don't get why there's a big deal. They can't do *** if you focus everyone else.

A good DK tank is far more formidable because they can actually control the flow of the battle.

A Blazeplar just runs around hoping enough uneducated players hit them.

Linkanton · May 2017

GeneralSezme wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Listen up guys, blazing shield got buffed, if you go huh now read this and then decide if it got nerfed or not:
Front loaded cp give you more damage+ there is now a new cp that increases your direct damage by up to 25% meaning you lose 10% of damage and gain even more due to other changes

that's percentage is halved in PvP and we shouldn't have to rely on cp for the build to be playable

The playstyle will definitely still be playable. It's just 10%. Stop overreacting as if the build is dead for gods sake.

Try it out first. If it doesn't work, then adjust! Ill probably run a max health set + thunderbug set for more AoE damage that doesn't fully rely on blazing shield. You can sustain enough with channeled focus, minor magicka steal, and resto heavy attacks.

GeneralSezme · May 2017

Linkanton wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Listen up guys, blazing shield got buffed, if you go huh now read this and then decide if it got nerfed or not:
Front loaded cp give you more damage+ there is now a new cp that increases your direct damage by up to 25% meaning you lose 10% of damage and gain even more due to other changes

that's percentage is halved in PvP and we shouldn't have to rely on cp for the build to be playable

The playstyle will definitely still be playable. It's just 10%. Stop overreacting as if the build is dead for gods sake.

Try it out first. If it doesn't work, then adjust! Ill probably run a max health set + thunderbug set for more AoE damage that doesn't fully rely on blazing shield. You can sustain enough with channeled focus, minor magicka steal, and resto heavy attacks.

I didn't say it was dead it just makes it harder than it already is to play, and that set does not fit into our playstyle and it really just sucks. If there is a heavy armor set out there we have already tried using it dude don't get the impression that people who build Blazing shields adhere to one strict style and spam one button because that is nonsense, no class or play style spams one button unless they are a new player.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The idea behind the change is that builds with high survival should do less damage. Sound logic.

We have the worst survivabillity in the game, we have to run vampire, we have the worst healing in the game, low resist and 0 crit resistance so if we we are stunned and have no stamina we are dead. Like I said before there are way more unkillable tanks but there is no outrage about that because everyone benefits from that element of the game.

The only reason you have no stamina is from choice. You have put everything into health. Channeled focus helps with magika as well, more than being a vampire and the buff sticks for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.

I would suggest that you have two shields but just like your stamina, you probably have no magika or harness to scale off of.

It does not surprise me a PvP build that focuses only on health and expects to do damage and survive works well since both magika and stamina are required for survival. Health just increases the ttk a bit.

Yea dude I know how the game works, we have the same amount of stam as any other magicka builds, why aren't you telling other magicka builds they shouldn't be stacking all into magicka? It's harder having higher health because we stay in the bonus damage threshold for executes longer, the healing isn't bad per say but it is hard to stay above the execute threshold.

GeneralSezme · May 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Not a Troll build its a build that punishes zergs, something zos should be encouraging

No its absolutely not. What they should be encouraging is skillful counterplay. Vicious death bomblades were also a counter to zergs. That didnt make the gameplay better nor did it break zergs. And its the same for your blazing shield build. It doesnt make the gameplay better nor it makes anything about breaking zergs. This dumb idea people have that anti zerg builds is the way to go to make PVP better is hilarious.

And if you actually believe for a second that only zergs dont like your build then u've been misinformed. The only difference between zerglings and good players when it comes to facing blazing shield builds is that good players just dont waste their time with troll builds. And no matter how u want to spin it, thats what blazing shield builds are. troll builds with 1 counter. Ignore them. Great gameplay you got there.

Also, comparing blazing shield builds with unkillable tanks is like comparing apples with oranges. The unkillable tanks are not a result of specific skills but because of game mechanics which is prety much what this update is hoping to fix.

What is a skillful build then? If Blazing shield isn't? It is a build you have to put the most thought into you can't just say I'm gonna throw something on and run into 30 people and hope for the best, you actually have to have the mechanics of the build, you have to gold everything out you constantly need to be popping pots, constantly have to be putting up and reapplying short lasting buffs, you have to sacrifice 2 slots for entrophy and 2 slots for blazing shield because lag can prevent you from switching bars. You have to use a heal that can be interrupted (Vampire drain) and does no healing if you don't have all your healing buffs up, all ultimate's available hit like wet noodles or have to be defensive not to mention healing springs and BoL heals through our damage infinitely. Please tell me if there is a class that is harder to play

winterbornb14_ESO · May 2017

Lol try to Duo some named mobs with a Health/Shield tank now.

Hoked_on_ponix · May 2017

GeneralSezme wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Not a Troll build its a build that punishes zergs, something zos should be encouraging

No its absolutely not. What they should be encouraging is skillful counterplay. Vicious death bomblades were also a counter to zergs. That didnt make the gameplay better nor did it break zergs. And its the same for your blazing shield build. It doesnt make the gameplay better nor it makes anything about breaking zergs. This dumb idea people have that anti zerg builds is the way to go to make PVP better is hilarious.

And if you actually believe for a second that only zergs dont like your build then u've been misinformed. The only difference between zerglings and good players when it comes to facing blazing shield builds is that good players just dont waste their time with troll builds. And no matter how u want to spin it, thats what blazing shield builds are. troll builds with 1 counter. Ignore them. Great gameplay you got there.

Also, comparing blazing shield builds with unkillable tanks is like comparing apples with oranges. The unkillable tanks are not a result of specific skills but because of game mechanics which is prety much what this update is hoping to fix.

What is a skillful build then? If Blazing shield isn't? It is a build you have to put the most thought into you can't just say I'm gonna throw something on and run into 30 people and hope for the best, you actually have to have the mechanics of the build, you have to gold everything out you constantly need to be popping pots, constantly have to be putting up and reapplying short lasting buffs, you have to sacrifice 2 slots for entrophy and 2 slots for blazing shield because lag can prevent you from switching bars. You have to use a heal that can be interrupted (Vampire drain) and does no healing if you don't have all your healing buffs up, all ultimate's available hit like wet noodles or have to be defensive not to mention healing springs and BoL heals through our damage infinitely. Please tell me if there is a class that is harder to play

are you serious? I can't think of a less skillful build. What other build's spamable dps ability is also its survivable oh *** button? You can use one global cool down for 10k plus damage and 10k plus shield

GeneralSezme · May 2017

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Not a Troll build its a build that punishes zergs, something zos should be encouraging

No its absolutely not. What they should be encouraging is skillful counterplay. Vicious death bomblades were also a counter to zergs. That didnt make the gameplay better nor did it break zergs. And its the same for your blazing shield build. It doesnt make the gameplay better nor it makes anything about breaking zergs. This dumb idea people have that anti zerg builds is the way to go to make PVP better is hilarious.

And if you actually believe for a second that only zergs dont like your build then u've been misinformed. The only difference between zerglings and good players when it comes to facing blazing shield builds is that good players just dont waste their time with troll builds. And no matter how u want to spin it, thats what blazing shield builds are. troll builds with 1 counter. Ignore them. Great gameplay you got there.

Also, comparing blazing shield builds with unkillable tanks is like comparing apples with oranges. The unkillable tanks are not a result of specific skills but because of game mechanics which is prety much what this update is hoping to fix.

What is a skillful build then? If Blazing shield isn't? It is a build you have to put the most thought into you can't just say I'm gonna throw something on and run into 30 people and hope for the best, you actually have to have the mechanics of the build, you have to gold everything out you constantly need to be popping pots, constantly have to be putting up and reapplying short lasting buffs, you have to sacrifice 2 slots for entrophy and 2 slots for blazing shield because lag can prevent you from switching bars. You have to use a heal that can be interrupted (Vampire drain) and does no healing if you don't have all your healing buffs up, all ultimate's available hit like wet noodles or have to be defensive not to mention healing springs and BoL heals through our damage infinitely. Please tell me if there is a class that is harder to play

are you serious? I can't think of a less skillful build. What other build's spamable dps ability is also its survivable oh *** button? You can use one global cool down for 10k plus damage and 10k plus shield

Well try it for yourself if you think it is so easy champ.

Vaoh · May 2017

Atm there are two different *PvP* builds that benefit from stacking tons of health on a tank.

- Blazing Shield Templar
- Arctic Blast/Gripping Shards Warden

In a way they have balanced these two amongst themselves.

Blazing Shield Templars are the mobile aids tank builds that dish out high AoE damage. Gripping Shards Wardens are the slow/stationary aids tank builds that put out similar damage to a Templar and in a larger AoE, but only if enemies stand still inside of their AoE DoTs (causing them to remain in closed spaces that enemies must pass through).

In other words, these two builds have a similar purpose. A Warden is more powerful in a closed space/corridor but weak elsewhere, while templar is strong/more mobile in all situations. If Blazing Shield was unnerfed, then Warden high health tanks would be completely trash.... aka they balanced Blazing Shield to give both builds slightly different purposes....

This is how I think ZOS did things. We have yet to give Morrowind enough time Live to witness the real outcomes - don't get so angry yet just because your 80K+ Health Blazing Shield Templar isn't melting those poor low-CP pug groups in 2-3 explosions quite as easy as before

Give it some time, then provide real feedback!

Akinos · May 2017

lol people in this thread...you you guys know there were other blazing shield builds, besides the 80k hp troll noob bait builds? Yeah, those builds got [snip] over way harder then the ones that went all HP and nothing else.

raknorok · May 2017

Akinos wrote: »

lol people in this thread...you you guys know there were other blazing shield builds, besides the 80k hp troll noob bait builds? Yeah, those builds got [snip] over way harder then the ones that went all HP and nothing else.

this guy gets it

GeneralSezme · May 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Atm there are two different *PvP* builds that benefit from stacking tons of health on a tank.

- Blazing Shield Templar
- Arctic Blast/Gripping Shards Warden

In a way they have balanced these two amongst themselves.

Blazing Shield Templars are the mobile aids tank builds that dish out high AoE damage. Gripping Shards Wardens are the slow/stationary aids tank builds that put out similar damage to a Templar and in a larger AoE, but only if enemies stand still inside of their AoE DoTs (causing them to remain in closed spaces that enemies must pass through).

In other words, these two builds have a similar purpose. A Warden is more powerful in a closed space/corridor but weak elsewhere, while templar is strong/more mobile in all situations. If Blazing Shield was unnerfed, then Warden high health tanks would be completely trash.... aka they balanced Blazing Shield to give both builds slightly different purposes....

This is how I think ZOS did things. We have yet to give Morrowind enough time Live to witness the real outcomes - don't get so angry yet just because your 80K+ Health Blazing Shield Templar isn't melting those poor low-CP pug groups in 2-3 explosions quite as easy as before Give it some time, then provide real feedback!

Most blazing shields don't stack up that high because you are sacrificing survivabillity for that extra health, most have 50-60k. I have played it enough yesterday and it is terrible, not to mention the sustain nerfs which apparently were not enough for us. We are only being nerfed because so few people play this style because everyone wants to be able to do a ton of burst damage while us few like to be slow, work as a team, be sustaining and dealing slow but steady damage and we are punished for playing that kind of style.

I don't mind the sustain nerfs but the damage nerf was way out of left field, there was no good reason for it. Nothing even to offset the nerf, like a cost reduction to the ability or making the other morph useful, or making people attacking the shield get major defile, or apply a burn. Absolutely nothing.

DeHei · May 2017

But blazing shield templar builds are really a stupid playstyle... You just are able to kill people, when they do much damage and dont look on there own life... I allways ignore this guys or kill them with some guys, when the Templar is crowdcontrolled...

I never understood, how this playstyle brings fun..

But i understand this changes not really too... If anybody will die against a blazing shield templar, is it only his own mistake

FoulSnowpaw · May 2017

I hope people know that blazing shield costs Magicka. Actually study the darn ability.
Therefore people do not have 50-70k health.
It costs a lot of magicka to spam this skill if you ever could.
Morrowind update shredded sustain.

Do the math and play the class yourself before you whine simply because you can't beat the guy whos clearly better than you.

a1i3nz · May 2017

Omg someone qq about blazing shields being nerfed this is gold

Reverb · May 2017

Blazing Shield is is a really niche build, where you give up damage, sustain and mobility to just be a bubble. It is only really effective against dumb people. If Zeni is trying to nerf ways to kill dumb people, they've got a long road ahead of them.