Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Yeah I agree. DKs losing Mending was one of the worst changes I have seen them make for the game in a very long time. The nerfs to Helping Hands and Battle Roar I can at least see what they're trying to do. Taking away our Mending completely neuters our class though.

Let's keep it real though. They didn't remove it, they just tied it to your shield, pop shield do a couple roll dodges and then you're at full health again.

Lol. The shield is removed as soon as it's applied, esspecially when outnumbered. It will be removed before you can even get a single vigor tick and even if you could get that far and start dodging and DoT will remove it immediately. Also if another DK is around and casts his igneous yours is removed as well.

@ManDraKE i don't think anyone here necessarily disagrees. The bigger picture is we lost our ability to stand our ground in most builds without an compensation for mobility, etc. We lost major mending but also we lost heavy sustain, class sustain, blocking, etc, along with it.

And TBH major mending is only too strong when you couple it with champion points and low block cost. not nearly as strong in NoCP but once again NoCP players are shafted due to the horrid nature of the CP system.

krathos wrote: »

@ManDraKE Also if ZoS truly believes this and uses it as reasoning for why DK and Templar losing Maj Mending then why does warden get:

1. A spammable stamina class burst heal
2. Easily accessible major mending
3. Insane damage buffs (both active and from passives)
4. More reliable form of crit surge
5. Long duration major expedition
6. etc etc etc (the list really does go on)

This is why we are like "the ***".

havent tested the warden, but i belive the uptime of Major Mending on it has been nerfed, maybe someone who actually tested the class can throw some light here. I know that a stamwarden will have even more healing than a stamsorc with critsurge, and that will be over the top, but that is not reason to buff DKs, in any case is a reason to nerf wardens.
Nerfing major mending in Dks and Templars was a very good idea imo, and that have nothing to do with the warden. If the warden requieres a nerf, that is another discussion (that i can't have right now because i havent tested the class)

I'm not sure if the DKs will have enought survability tools to remain strong withouth major mending, that will take some time to see how the meta evolves. I know for sure that health regen builds will make the stamdk competitive, but i'm afraid that it will force all stamdks to run the same *** in order to perform, time will tell if they are going to need a buff or not, is hard to predict the meta in the PTS, but asking for buffs just because wardens are stronger is not the way to go, because all classes could use the same argument. They won't nail the Warden balance in the first patch, we all know that.

They had to give the Warden something guys. Use your heavy attack on the Resto staff LMFAO !

ManDraKE wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

@ManDraKE Also if ZoS truly believes this and uses it as reasoning for why DK and Templar losing Maj Mending then why does warden get:

1. A spammable stamina class burst heal
2. Easily accessible major mending
3. Insane damage buffs (both active and from passives)
4. More reliable form of crit surge
5. Long duration major expedition
6. etc etc etc (the list really does go on)

This is why we are like "the ***".

havent tested the warden, but i belive the uptime of Major Mending on it has been nerfed, maybe someone who actually tested the class can throw some light here. I know that a stamwarden will have even more healing than a stamsorc with critsurge, and that will be over the top, but that is not reason to buff DKs, in any case is a reason to nerf wardens.
Nerfing major mending in Dks and Templars was a very good idea imo, and that have nothing to do with the warden. If the warden requieres a nerf, that is another discussion (that i can't have right now because i havent tested the class)

I'm not sure if the DKs will have enought survability tools to remain strong withouth major mending, that will take some time to see how the meta evolves. I know for sure that health regen builds will make the stamdk competitive, but i'm afraid that it will force all stamdks to run the same *** in order to perform, time will tell if they are going to need a buff or not, is hard to predict the meta in the PTS, but asking for buffs just because wardens are stronger is not the way to go, because all classes could use the same argument. They won't nail the Warden balance in the first patch, we all know that.

nobody is asking for DK to be buffed, just for it not to be nerfed into the ground.

On live, magicka dk is overpowered in the fact they can tank ton of ennemies for age and still kiling poeple with the same build, nerf was needed.

The major mending nerf is a bit too much yeah, but ZoS is not that bad for this patch balance, all of other things are very welcome.

No need posting about DKs they do not listen ..

ManDraKE wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

On live, magicka dk is overpowered in the fact they can tank ton of ennemies for age and still kiling poeple with the same build, nerf was needed.

The major mending nerf is a bit too much yeah, but ZoS is not that bad for this patch balance, all of other things are very welcome.

What server? What platform? Which campaigns?
On Ps4 EU even the strongest Magicka DKs we have can't stand for ages against tons of enemies.
And those are pretty tough mofos, I tell you that.

You gotta love console players, they seems to think that for some reason the game plays out different in their platform, and their players are somehow special lol. We all play the same game dude, there is no magic in any platform.

I wasn't trying to say that console players are special, eheh
I was just contextualizing my experience and specifing that even those players that are incredibly tough can't exterminate zergs for hours. And they're tough because they simply are, not because they play for console.
I simply can't compare them to other platforms because I've never played elsewhere so while I fought against or alongside some of them, I've never dueled a PC Magicka DK.

krathos wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

nobody is asking for DK to be buffed, just for it not to be nerfed into the ground.

correct me if i'm wrong, but your main complain was the nerf to major mending uptime/reliability. Then you said that your don't disagree with me that major mending on DKs/Templars needed a nerf, so....we were stand? what changes to the DK are you suggesting?

the whole argument was that it was nerfed without compensation into mobility, damage, etc which we lack far behind from other classes.

ok, fair enough

spiiros wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stamdks in heavy armor built with 50k stamina is ridiculously strong in pvp atm, yes they needed nerfs, was the nerfs on pts the right ones? Many of them was not, but atleast its better then nothing imo. DKs still have good healing, take a look at nightblades or stamsorcs, they basicly have nothing to boost their healing except cp, and that got nerfed too.

While using Draconic Power abilities:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is activated

Dark Deal.... crit surge.... rally.... vigor....

Stamblades have a great amount of healing too. Wha.

Yep. Stam sorc will literally have the best healing next patch along with the best mobility and some of the best damage passives and sustain passives. And nightblade can pop cloak and guarantee crit heals. I understand cloak isn't always reliable but still.

spiiros wrote: »

Stamblades have a great amount of healing too. Wha.

you are being sarcastic right? lol

krathos wrote: »

access to minor vitality. an ability that while active prevents dots from ticking and makes all heals crit. sounds alright to me. .

Minor vitality in a stamblade? sure, lets use swallow soul instead of surprise attack lol. And about cloak...it dosn't work half of the times, and to crit heals and supress dots you need to go defensive, things like major mending allow you to heal while going offensive (plus you can buff yourselft prevently). Major mending is 10x stronger than using cloak to heal and supress dot, every day of the week. Sorry but saying that nighblades have decent healing a joke.

Valencer wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

access to minor vitality. an ability that while active prevents dots from ticking and makes all heals crit. sounds alright to me. .

Minor vitality in a stamblade? sure, lets use swallow soul instead of surprise attack lol. And about cloak...it dosn't work half of the times, and to crit heals and supress dots you need to go defensive, things like major mending allow you to heal while going offensive (plus you can buff yourselft prevently). Major mending is 10x stronger than using cloak to heal and supress dot, every day of the week. Sorry but saying that nighblades have decent healing a joke.

You are seriously underestimating the usefulness of being able to break out of combat and recover while avoiding getting hit entirely.

Try to understand that healing is literally all a Dragonknight has for survivability. There are no if's or but's here - without better healing there is no reason to pick DK over any other spec. It has very little group utility, less burst potential than the other classes, less mobility, and will now not even be better at being tanky unless youre running an useless troll tank build

You have a point if it actually worked. One Dot will break cloak and leave it unable to be used on a stamblade. Not to mention there multiple Cloak breaking abilities like mage Light,Det pots or any AOE.

ManDraKE wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

access to minor vitality. an ability that while active prevents dots from ticking and makes all heals crit. sounds alright to me. .

Minor vitality in a stamblade? sure, lets use swallow soul instead of surprise attack lol. And about cloak...it dosn't work half of the times, and to crit heals and supress dots you need to go defensive, things like major mending allow you to heal while going offensive (plus you can buff yourselft prevently). Major mending is 10x stronger than using cloak to heal and supress dot, every day of the week. Sorry but saying that nighblades have decent healing a joke.

and how does a DK get minor vitality next patch? a useless skill also as I said, except to get the buff we have to activate it for 4.5k magicka.

stamblades have just as decent of healing as stam dk next patch. arguably better. major mending is essentially gone.