Do not let the naysayers get you down. - There is Hope.

Bobby_V_Rockit · May 2017

No there's not, it's doom all round!

itscompton · May 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

NecroEnzo wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Nobody forces you to heavy attack.
Swap one damage set for a sustain set.
Or swap some of your damage jewelry enchantments for cost reduction or regen.

People can be so narrowminded when it comes to change.

Wait wait what? Swap weapon/spell damage for cost reduction? Where are you going to pick those numbers back up?

There's no witty way to get around the nerfs. Even my infinite sustain set that will function after the xpac will cost significant amounts of damage. No one upset with the changes is experiencing tunnel vision. A nerf is a nerf, and that loss of damage is going to be something people notice, especially since the changes came with no end to the RNG loot system.

People are still going to be grinding for gear, and now it will be slower. The same content, with no scoring system, no extra loot rewards for excellency, and high probability of getting junk, all the while needing new sets because of sweeping changes so that you can matter in PvE and PvP.

But yeah, no biggie, loot grind is fun right?

Loot grind?
You mean for those sets that are selling for scrap right now or deconstructed?

I have never heard a complaint about loot grind or RNG on any of the many whine threads popping out on the forum these days.
Yet, show some alternative to heavy attacking and there you have it: loot grind.

You are basically shifting blame wherever you feel like it, as long as you get to complain about something.

LOL, are you serious? Just search "RNG grind" in the forum search. 100+ pages of people discussing the topic and about 95% of it is negative feedback because people don't enjoy being required to run the same dungeon/content 50-100 times to get a sharpened staff or sword from a best in slot set, especially when there is a good chance that BiS set might become completely irrelevant when the next "balance" pass occurs.

The key word is these days.
People whine about sustain, not loot grind.

These days huh, like the last three days? Maybe you missed these:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4121656#Comment_4121656
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344215/suggestion-pve-dungeon-based-vendors
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4120279#Comment_4120279
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4114580#Comment_4114580
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4121736#Comment_4121736
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4114694#Comment_4114694
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343729/we-need-pve-rep

Coilbox · May 2017

Knowledge wrote: »

Many of us will simply adapt to the changes while others become victims of evolution.

This is the most preposterous and pedantic statement i have ever seen.

Wreuntzylla · May 2017

Knowledge wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

You posted examples of successes, that doesn't negate the other games that failed. Not saying eso will fail because of this, but that logic makes no sense.

There are people that agree and disagree with pretty much any game changing expansion in most any mmo. Some will fail and some will succeed.

One games success does not mean other games will see the same.

We will see who will be right and who will be wrong in the coming months. At that juncture, we should return to this thread to see who was right and who was wrong.

In recent memory no expansion has "killed a game". The closest example is StarWars: Galaxies NGE. That's one game out of how many?

What is recent memory?

Starkest example of an xpac that ended a game: Trials of Atlantis

Strangely enough, some of the ZoS managers were part of that xpac design also...

Cherryblossom · May 2017

Knowledge wrote: »

In the past decade I have been a part of many MMO expansion launches. I have seen the best and the worst in the aforementioned decade and I want to reassure this community that it's par for the course.

I'd like to start off by using one of the most recent examples of an expansion launch - World of Warcraft: Legion. In World of Warcraft: Legion a large group of veteran players would echo across the forums complaining about PVP changes (the removal of PVP gear) and there was even a group of players that formed a "no fly - no buy" group which stated they would not buy the game unless flying as IN the game at launch. Blizzard didn't comply with either demand and Legion launched with great success.

Moving on, Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward saw a so-called exodus in the form of many Bards over "Wanderer's Paean" requiring them to remain stationary. SquareEnix did not comply with the Bards pleas and the expansion launched with great success.

I could go on and on but I think my point can now be made. This game isn't going to collapse in a few months as people have said, they aren't going to close the servers down, and I can assure you that these forum posters represent a minority of people in this game. There will be MORE people coming to the game JUST for this expansion as first-time players than there will be people LEAVING.

This happens every time a major change is made in a game that impacts the upper tier player base. These changes aren't going to ruin the fun of the casual player and it most certainly won't kill the 'elite' or hardcore tier. There are those of us that will simply adapt and not become a victim of evolution.

Moreover, I want this to be a time for opportunity for you. You could be the next great theory crafter to replace Deltia. Or perhaps you could be an authority on your class if you try hard enough - people will look to you for answers. There are benefits to everything and this expansion launch is more of a new chapter for the community at large.

Lastly, I am glad that ZeniMax remains steadfast in their intent to shape the game in the direction they want to.

See you guys in Vvarderfell.

@Knowledge
I'd say I'm not concerned about the changes to sustain, none of the class changes really matter, we have had to cope with these continually every 3 months since launch, so its not an issue.

However I won't see you in Vvarderfell straight away, I'm not going to waste my money. I'll wait until it's in the bargin bin. Thats the issue which could have an effect on this game, people are paying new game prices for a DLC, the feeling of being ripped off may well have a bigger effect on the population than any changes to sustain!

It's not a case of dying, it a case of the population becoming so small it's not sustainable.

dovakiin5574 · May 2017

Honestly, I'm seeing all this salt and thinking... Well if there isn't some type of change all of you will get bored of the game. For some people, new content just isn't enough (it is for me). All MMO's go through expansions and changes and still have good followings (Look at the crap I refuse to play, WoW). ESO forever guys, ESO til the servers go down forever.

The_Antiquarian · May 2017

Knowledge wrote: »

In the past decade I have been a part of many MMO expansion launches. I have seen the best and the worst in the aforementioned decade and I want to reassure this community that it's par for the course.

I'd like to start off by using one of the most recent examples of an expansion launch - World of Warcraft: Legion. In World of Warcraft: Legion a large group of veteran players would echo across the forums complaining about PVP changes (the removal of PVP gear) and there was even a group of players that formed a "no fly - no buy" group which stated they would not buy the game unless flying as IN the game at launch. Blizzard didn't comply with either demand and Legion launched with great success.

Moving on, Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward saw a so-called exodus in the form of many Bards over "Wanderer's Paean" requiring them to remain stationary. SquareEnix did not comply with the Bards pleas and the expansion launched with great success.

I could go on and on but I think my point can now be made. This game isn't going to collapse in a few months as people have said, they aren't going to close the servers down, and I can assure you that these forum posters represent a minority of people in this game. There will be MORE people coming to the game JUST for this expansion as first-time players than there will be people LEAVING.

This happens every time a major change is made in a game that impacts the upper tier player base. These changes aren't going to ruin the fun of the casual player and it most certainly won't kill the 'elite' or hardcore tier. There are those of us that will simply adapt and not become a victim of evolution.

Moreover, I want this to be a time for opportunity for you. You could be the next great theory crafter to replace Deltia. Or perhaps you could be an authority on your class if you try hard enough - people will look to you for answers. There are benefits to everything and this expansion launch is more of a new chapter for the community at large.

Lastly, I am glad that ZeniMax remains steadfast in their intent to shape the game in the direction they want to.

See you guys in Vvarderfell.

Thank you

Elsonso · May 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

However I won't see you in Vvarderfell straight away, I'm not going to waste my money. I'll wait until it's in the bargin bin. Thats the issue which could have an effect on this game, people are paying new game prices for a DLC, the feeling of being ripped off may well have a bigger effect on the population than any changes to sustain!

It's not a case of dying, it a case of the population becoming so small it's not sustainable.

You can wait until it is in the bargain bin. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem with your statement is calling Morrowind a DLC. That leads to the idea that Morrowind is less significant than it really is. The higher price for a DLC leads you to think that it is going to be unpopular. You are led to the conclusion that this, perhaps in combination with sustain, will result in a lower population.

I think that is wrong, on all counts.

I am absolutely certain that calling Morrowind a DLC is understating the whole thing. It is only a DLC when looked at from a narrow perspective. Now, there is value in calling it a DLC, especially if the intent is to be critical of ZOS, but it is not a DLC.

It is best to think of Morrowind as a new version of the game. It includes a new class, new PVP content, new group content, new solo content, updated combat balance, and a new zone, plus the previous version of the game. For new players who buy it, it is not a DLC, or an expansion. It is simply the latest version of ESO. Now, I realize that I am late to the party on this one, but I have to admit that I really did not care so I was not paying attention.

Is Morrowind a ripoff? Not for new players. They are getting Morrowind, the new ESO base game, for the same list price as Tamriel Unlimited was selling for. Right now, you can buy Tamriel Unlimited for half price, which is a deal, but I think that the people who can afford Morrowind will have no reason not to buy it. From the outside looking in, Morrowind is the latest version of the game. Everything else is the old version of the game.

For the feeling of being ripped off, it really boils down to the existing players. Is the upgrade price of US$40 is worth it for a new version of the game? Does the new version offers enough of a difference, for the $40, to justify it? Will they be able to get over the fact that ESO Plus did not include version upgrades? Will they be able to look past the idea that Morrowind is "just a DLC" and see it as the version upgrade that it is positioned to be? Will they accept the idea of a new version instead of breaking it up into free base game updates and a DLC?

Will people be willing to do this annually? I can already feel "upgrade fatigue" setting in, and Morrowind has not even shipped. If anything is going to stop this train, it is going to be that. Annual chapters will be a mistake, if they do it the same way next year.

Galwylin · May 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

Will people be willing to do this annually? I can already feel "upgrade fatigue" setting in, and Morrowind has not even shipped. If anything is going to stop this train, it is going to be that. Annual chapters will be a mistake, if they do it the same way next year.

Oh, I've already said that I won't support this stuff every year. Not that plus paying a subscription. Maybe every two years. And what comes exactly next is going to start to fill in the picture.

I see your point about it being the newest version of the game like One Tamriel and its a completely valid one. I honestly believed, Morrowind was going to be simply a large DLC. Perhaps costing more than Orsinium. Warden and battlegrounds probably base game updates. Still free to ESO+ then something changed for some reason. I think that part of everything would have been smoother. Attaching the sustain changes probably never would have been a smooth ride. I can just imagine a new player starting and after a bit goes to the forums to see all of.... this. I always check out the forums to see if even the fans like the game their playing. Of course, no one does but you do get a feel for where the game is currently.

A new version of the game yearly already tires me out. To be honest, I probably would have waited on Morrowind if not for the warden since I technically haven't finished the base game. At least not Cadwell's Silver and Gold. So I had plenty to do. Now if it had been a necromancer instead, I would have waited (probably never made one) since I don't see a place for those to fit. A druid (which the warden sounds very close to) would get me. Just specific classes as I remember game classes. Monks (but not called monks) would be welcomed,

Dubhliam · May 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

NecroEnzo wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Nobody forces you to heavy attack.
Swap one damage set for a sustain set.
Or swap some of your damage jewelry enchantments for cost reduction or regen.

People can be so narrowminded when it comes to change.

Wait wait what? Swap weapon/spell damage for cost reduction? Where are you going to pick those numbers back up?

There's no witty way to get around the nerfs. Even my infinite sustain set that will function after the xpac will cost significant amounts of damage. No one upset with the changes is experiencing tunnel vision. A nerf is a nerf, and that loss of damage is going to be something people notice, especially since the changes came with no end to the RNG loot system.

People are still going to be grinding for gear, and now it will be slower. The same content, with no scoring system, no extra loot rewards for excellency, and high probability of getting junk, all the while needing new sets because of sweeping changes so that you can matter in PvE and PvP.

But yeah, no biggie, loot grind is fun right?

Loot grind?
You mean for those sets that are selling for scrap right now or deconstructed?

I have never heard a complaint about loot grind or RNG on any of the many whine threads popping out on the forum these days.
Yet, show some alternative to heavy attacking and there you have it: loot grind.

You are basically shifting blame wherever you feel like it, as long as you get to complain about something.

LOL, are you serious? Just search "RNG grind" in the forum search. 100+ pages of people discussing the topic and about 95% of it is negative feedback because people don't enjoy being required to run the same dungeon/content 50-100 times to get a sharpened staff or sword from a best in slot set, especially when there is a good chance that BiS set might become completely irrelevant when the next "balance" pass occurs.

The key word is these days.
People whine about sustain, not loot grind.

These days huh, like the last three days? Maybe you missed these:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4121656#Comment_4121656
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344215/suggestion-pve-dungeon-based-vendors
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4120279#Comment_4120279
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4114580#Comment_4114580
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4121736#Comment_4121736
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4114694#Comment_4114694
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343729/we-need-pve-rep

What do any of these have to do with PTS or Morrowind?
And since when is a thread from December considered these days?

Are we discussing the upcoming resource management changes or vMA weapons here??

I simply gave many alternatives to heavy attacking for resource management, and you throw this nonsense here.

colig · May 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

However I won't see you in Vvarderfell straight away, I'm not going to waste my money. I'll wait until it's in the bargin bin. Thats the issue which could have an effect on this game, people are paying new game prices for a DLC, the feeling of being ripped off may well have a bigger effect on the population than any changes to sustain!

It's not a case of dying, it a case of the population becoming so small it's not sustainable.

You can wait until it is in the bargain bin. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem with your statement is calling Morrowind a DLC. That leads to the idea that Morrowind is less significant than it really is. The higher price for a DLC leads you to think that it is going to be unpopular. You are led to the conclusion that this, perhaps in combination with sustain, will result in a lower population.

I think that is wrong, on all counts.

I am absolutely certain that calling Morrowind a DLC is understating the whole thing. It is only a DLC when looked at from a narrow perspective. Now, there is value in calling it a DLC, especially if the intent is to be critical of ZOS, but it is not a DLC.

It is best to think of Morrowind as a new version of the game. It includes a new class, new PVP content, new group content, new solo content, updated combat balance, and a new zone, plus the previous version of the game. For new players who buy it, it is not a DLC, or an expansion. It is simply the latest version of ESO. Now, I realize that I am late to the party on this one, but I have to admit that I really did not care so I was not paying attention.

Is Morrowind a ripoff? Not for new players. They are getting Morrowind, the new ESO base game, for the same list price as Tamriel Unlimited was selling for. Right now, you can buy Tamriel Unlimited for half price, which is a deal, but I think that the people who can afford Morrowind will have no reason not to buy it. From the outside looking in, Morrowind is the latest version of the game. Everything else is the old version of the game.

For the feeling of being ripped off, it really boils down to the existing players. Is the upgrade price of US$40 is worth it for a new version of the game? Does the new version offers enough of a difference, for the $40, to justify it? Will they be able to get over the fact that ESO Plus did not include version upgrades? Will they be able to look past the idea that Morrowind is "just a DLC" and see it as the version upgrade that it is positioned to be? Will they accept the idea of a new version instead of breaking it up into free base game updates and a DLC?

Will people be willing to do this annually? I can already feel "upgrade fatigue" setting in, and Morrowind has not even shipped. If anything is going to stop this train, it is going to be that. Annual chapters will be a mistake, if they do it the same way next year.

If Morrowind can be considered a new version of the game, then subbers got screwed over badly. Pay a monthly fee, get told 'you will be taken care of', and you don't even get the most current game available. At least the deal looks pretty good and enticing for the new player; if I hadn't started ESO yet then the Morrowind chapter would almost certainly have drawn me in.

Dubhliam · May 2017

colig wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

However I won't see you in Vvarderfell straight away, I'm not going to waste my money. I'll wait until it's in the bargin bin. Thats the issue which could have an effect on this game, people are paying new game prices for a DLC, the feeling of being ripped off may well have a bigger effect on the population than any changes to sustain!

It's not a case of dying, it a case of the population becoming so small it's not sustainable.

You can wait until it is in the bargain bin. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem with your statement is calling Morrowind a DLC. That leads to the idea that Morrowind is less significant than it really is. The higher price for a DLC leads you to think that it is going to be unpopular. You are led to the conclusion that this, perhaps in combination with sustain, will result in a lower population.

I think that is wrong, on all counts.

I am absolutely certain that calling Morrowind a DLC is understating the whole thing. It is only a DLC when looked at from a narrow perspective. Now, there is value in calling it a DLC, especially if the intent is to be critical of ZOS, but it is not a DLC.

It is best to think of Morrowind as a new version of the game. It includes a new class, new PVP content, new group content, new solo content, updated combat balance, and a new zone, plus the previous version of the game. For new players who buy it, it is not a DLC, or an expansion. It is simply the latest version of ESO. Now, I realize that I am late to the party on this one, but I have to admit that I really did not care so I was not paying attention.

Is Morrowind a ripoff? Not for new players. They are getting Morrowind, the new ESO base game, for the same list price as Tamriel Unlimited was selling for. Right now, you can buy Tamriel Unlimited for half price, which is a deal, but I think that the people who can afford Morrowind will have no reason not to buy it. From the outside looking in, Morrowind is the latest version of the game. Everything else is the old version of the game.

For the feeling of being ripped off, it really boils down to the existing players. Is the upgrade price of US$40 is worth it for a new version of the game? Does the new version offers enough of a difference, for the $40, to justify it? Will they be able to get over the fact that ESO Plus did not include version upgrades? Will they be able to look past the idea that Morrowind is "just a DLC" and see it as the version upgrade that it is positioned to be? Will they accept the idea of a new version instead of breaking it up into free base game updates and a DLC?

Will people be willing to do this annually? I can already feel "upgrade fatigue" setting in, and Morrowind has not even shipped. If anything is going to stop this train, it is going to be that. Annual chapters will be a mistake, if they do it the same way next year.

If Morrowind can be considered a new version of the game, then subbers got screwed over badly. Pay a monthly fee, get told 'you will be taken care of', and you don't even get the most current game available. At least the deal looks pretty good and enticing for the new player; if I hadn't started ESO yet then the Morrowind chapter would almost certainly have drawn me in.

Subs give you crowns.

I am certain players will be able to upgrade their game to Morrowind with Crowns sooner rather than later.

Yes, it IS a slap in the face to the subscribers.
Well, at least those that consider that every new content should be in the form of DLC, and included with the sub.

Elsonso · May 2017

colig wrote: »

If Morrowind can be considered a new version of the game, then subbers got screwed over badly. Pay a monthly fee, get told 'you will be taken care of', and you don't even get the most current game available. At least the deal looks pretty good and enticing for the new player; if I hadn't started ESO yet then the Morrowind chapter would almost certainly have drawn me in.

Not really. The ESO Plus subscription transcends the version change. It just does not include it. The value of the subscription is the same with, or without, the new version. This is mainly because the ESO Plus subscription was not, as you describe it, the player being taken care of. I never got the impression that they were going to take care of me with any subscription to the point where expansions and upgrades were free, especially not after B2P.

If Morrowind included all of the DLC content, and if they had based it on Gold Edition rather than Tamriel Unlimited, then yes, ESO Plus would get screwed. I am waiting for that to happen. It just isn't happening now.

colig · May 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

colig wrote: »

If Morrowind can be considered a new version of the game, then subbers got screwed over badly. Pay a monthly fee, get told 'you will be taken care of', and you don't even get the most current game available. At least the deal looks pretty good and enticing for the new player; if I hadn't started ESO yet then the Morrowind chapter would almost certainly have drawn me in.

Not really. The ESO Plus subscription transcends the version change. It just does not include it. The value of the subscription is the same with, or without, the new version. This is mainly because the ESO Plus subscription was not, as you describe it, the player being taken care of. I never got the impression that they were going to take care of me with any subscription to the point where expansions and upgrades were free, especially not after B2P.

If Morrowind included all of the DLC content, and if they had based it on Gold Edition rather than Tamriel Unlimited, then yes, ESO Plus would get screwed. I am waiting for that to happen. It just isn't happening now.

I didn't put the quotation marks in for fun. ZOS themselves said that.

Elsonso · May 2017

colig wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

colig wrote: »

If Morrowind can be considered a new version of the game, then subbers got screwed over badly. Pay a monthly fee, get told 'you will be taken care of', and you don't even get the most current game available. At least the deal looks pretty good and enticing for the new player; if I hadn't started ESO yet then the Morrowind chapter would almost certainly have drawn me in.

Not really. The ESO Plus subscription transcends the version change. It just does not include it. The value of the subscription is the same with, or without, the new version. This is mainly because the ESO Plus subscription was not, as you describe it, the player being taken care of. I never got the impression that they were going to take care of me with any subscription to the point where expansions and upgrades were free, especially not after B2P.

If Morrowind included all of the DLC content, and if they had based it on Gold Edition rather than Tamriel Unlimited, then yes, ESO Plus would get screwed. I am waiting for that to happen. It just isn't happening now.

I didn't put the quotation marks in for fun. ZOS themselves said that.

Citation or it didn't happen. Don't mean to sound cocky, but I've been through all of this and I never heard them say it. It is not unusual for things to be attributed to ZOS that they never said.

Tryxus · May 2017

Hope makes fools live in joy

Jollygoodusername · May 2017

I've recently been drink--er...thinking. I've suddenly decided to find a new MMO to spend my retired hours with. Ashes of Creation is too far away, meanwhile Path of Exile 3.0 can't arrive soon enough...what to do?

edited bourbon typo

ObsidianMichi · May 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

The game isn't even changing that massively—it's just becoming less fun.

If that is the point you've reached, then it is time for a break. Go away for a month or three, give the changes time to settle in, get some perspective, and come back to it later if you do at all.

This is the life cycle of an MMO, and if you reach a point where you are not having fun anymore or clinging too hard to what you think the game was or should be then it is time to get some distance. These changes are going to happen whether you want them or not. We haven't even seen the final results (though we will see the first of them in about a week). They won't be the last changes. When you reach a point where it just isn't enjoyable, or you're too frustrated with the game, the company, or their business practices and don't feel like you want to support them anymore then it is time to exit stage left.

The door is always open to for you to leave, and for you to return. At least, you can until the game servers shutter.

Galwylin · May 2017

Wait, so expansions were always in ESO's future? Because when I subscribed, the impression (rightly or wrongly) was this covered the future. Now I'm not saying I'm upset about this. I'm not. But it was never made clear this game would do DLCs and expansions. Just thinking about things, there really wasn't a place for expansions. The game was expanding solely through DLCs. Heck, Thieves' Guild really has more game changes that Morrowind. The justice system came in at that time, didn't it? That affects the entire game with additional mechanics. You used to just open things up and take them. Now we have stealing and guards demanding money. Plus, it added land. If Morrowind is an expansion then Thieves Guild is also.

But for whatever reason, they've gone this route. If they weren't already in game, we'd probably be getting Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood as chapter also. Orsinium definitely. Biggest problem they have isn't the change in how content is being delivered. Its that they weren't honest about it. These changes to ESO+ should have been ready at announcement because now it looks like they didn't realize people would react to having to pay cash, not crowns, for Morrowind. Which is just silly thinking.

Again, I don't mind that this is how things have changed. I wish they had been upfront about it. Right now they're just ignoring the complaints and throwing extra bank space at it. I certainly hope that's not all. And I don't think I'd nerf the entire player base with its release. People are protesting purchase due to it. Why not have a nice clean release that people can get behind with some rumblings. And certainly don't ignore your subscribers. That's steady income even if you make more with crates. I just think it all was handled badly and a bit naive.

My opinion for what its worth.

Destyran · May 2017

I think you will find that people are most annoyed as this game changes directions more than a broken compass, and there are bugs that are never fixed and issues that have been there since launch and they havent adressed. Its just bad devs dont know how to fix their own game so they put something shiney in the crown store to distract you. They dont listen to their players because in their eyes the most important ppl are the ones not playing and they are concerned with how to get them to play

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2017

Destyran wrote: »

They dont listen to their players because in their eyes the most important ppl are the ones not playing and they are concerned with how to get them to play

I think you are wrong on this point.

I think the Devs think they themselves are are the only players that matter.

They have a vision for this game, and they will implement it, no matter how many real players they lose in the process.

They have failed to learn the most basic rule of selling to customers: once you release a product for sale to the consumer it becomes theirs, not yours.

All The Best

colig · May 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

colig wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

colig wrote: »

If Morrowind can be considered a new version of the game, then subbers got screwed over badly. Pay a monthly fee, get told 'you will be taken care of', and you don't even get the most current game available. At least the deal looks pretty good and enticing for the new player; if I hadn't started ESO yet then the Morrowind chapter would almost certainly have drawn me in.

Not really. The ESO Plus subscription transcends the version change. It just does not include it. The value of the subscription is the same with, or without, the new version. This is mainly because the ESO Plus subscription was not, as you describe it, the player being taken care of. I never got the impression that they were going to take care of me with any subscription to the point where expansions and upgrades were free, especially not after B2P.

If Morrowind included all of the DLC content, and if they had based it on Gold Edition rather than Tamriel Unlimited, then yes, ESO Plus would get screwed. I am waiting for that to happen. It just isn't happening now.

I didn't put the quotation marks in for fun. ZOS themselves said that.

Citation or it didn't happen. Don't mean to sound cocky, but I've been through all of this and I never heard them say it. It is not unusual for things to be attributed to ZOS that they never said.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3902296/#Comment_3902296

Search Pete Hines. Watch the Youtube video linked.

Edit: to be entirely fair, ZOS' mouthpieces did not say this. It was a paraphrase of Yolokin. What he did say was:

Guy 1: "...of course, you're gonna have access to DLC while you're a member of ESO plus. That's part of the plan."

Guy 2: "The idea there with DLC is that I don't ever have to worry about what DLC is coming out when, if I have ESO plus, I get to play all of it...."

Dubhliam · May 2017

https://youtu.be/IrOgF1w5VC8

So many Nostradamus these days predicting the next 2012 armaggedon.

Those that have their two feet on the ground (PTS testers) have more realistic feedback.
Or sometimes they can't say anything because of NDA.

In any case, once the update finally goes live we can finally start discussing experiences, and not predictions.

And I don't think it will be half as bad as people think.

sadownik · May 2017

@Dubhliam you dont get it, do you? Its not about "it wont be that bad" its about it wont be visibly better. Are people here so desensitized?

DjMuscleboy02 · May 2017

New changes will be fine, patch notes are getting better and better. It's the state of console I'm more concerned about. Vmol is still unplayable after 3 months..

Dubhliam · May 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@Dubhliam you dont get it, do you? Its not about "it wont be that bad" its about it wont be visibly better. Are people here so desensitized?

There are over 200 sets in the game.
How many can you name?

Why is that? Why are so many sets considered trash, while others are considered must have/meta sets?

Because: some sets focus on resource management, some on survivability, some are utility, and some are damage sets.
But the current state of the game does not require sustain sets to be effective.
All you need is to stack damage, and you will have no trouble.

Finally we will have great build diversity, finally you will be able to "play the way you want" and still have a viable build.

Why can't you get past the "OMFG I GIT NURFED!" and look at the broader picture?

I can't wait to try out some of the sets that are in the game for a very long time but were never necessary to play.

Ever heard of Syrabane? Do you know what it does?
Ever heard of Bloodthorn? Do you know what it does?
Warlock, Lich, WIthered Hand, Magicka Furnace, Desert Rose etc. etc. etc.

And these are only magicka sustain examples.
Finally we will be able to mix and match sets, then use food and jewelry enchantments to tweak our desired playstyle.

I mean, take a look at your jewelry enchantments.
Damage enchantments are a MUST currently on live.
Did anyone ever stop to remember the time when we had no Champion System? The good old times where you had to actually THINK about how many cost reduction or resource regen enchantments you need to sustain.

I am glad ZOS is vigilant to bring back resource management.
It is the one major thing that distinguishes ESO from other MMOs.

sadownik · May 2017

@where do you take great build diversity from? What will change with this patch? Name 5 of old sets that are now viable in endgame and werent before.

Elsonso · May 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@Dubhliam you dont get it, do you? Its not about "it wont be that bad" its about it wont be visibly better. Are people here so desensitized?

No, actually, it is about "it won't be that bad."

Through every fault of ZOS over the last several months, they have allowed the combat in the game to drift towards being easier, especially at the higher levels of play. Pushing against that drift is not going to be visibly better because it means that some players are going to find the game harder to play. These are not the sort of changes that those people cheer about, but ZOS feels that they have to be done for the longer term health of the game. This is not designed to be visually better.

Based on what they have changed in patches, and the feedback that they have not implemented, it seems pretty clear that they are satisfied that they are closer to whatever goal they have. Whatever the specifics of that goal are, getting there is more medicine than dessert. It is fair to suggest that it is not going to be that bad.

We will see if the medicine works. If sticking with the game, that is pretty much all we can do.

Violynne · May 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

You posted examples of successes, that doesn't negate the other games that failed. Not saying eso will fail because of this, but that logic makes no sense.

In every case of an MMO failure, you can rest assured it has to do with a loss of revenue.

It's unfortunately too many bean counters think "Sell a mount for $60. People will buy it." surpasses all logic of economics, but to be fair to ZoS in this regard: they dropped subscriptions.

Those who don't think this has an impact on game development need to learn game development. Budgets are everything in business, and without sustained revenue, there's no easy budget allotment.

What ZoS earned last year has no bearing on what it'll earn this year.

Those "threatening" to leave the game are also no indication of lost revenue, since many return.

If you want to see how a game developer can easily screw up, but still retain loyalty, just take a look at the pile of crap Activision calls "Destiny".

Then watch many who left return with the launch of Destiny 2 (and it's actually good).

Any company who builds its games on the whims of gamers is guaranteed to fail.

Just remember Homer Simpson designing a car.

Galwylin · May 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

Finally we will have great build diversity, finally you will be able to "play the way you want" and still have a viable build.

I don't think sets will change greatly. Maybe in your secondary set. Biggest help will be the CP changes so you can spread points. But mobs will not change. And many still will become more dangerous the longer the fight goes. Which it will. Those aren't changing. If that was different, then you can find ways to simply outlast them. I hope. Sets aren't going to radically change so all junk sets will no longer be junk sets. If they only changed the CPs, diversity would happen today. But you still can't get past crap abilities. So we'll still have those. There are still things holding back hybrids. Mainly how damage is calculated. If you don't stack main resource, your damage is decreases. That could use some adjustment if diversity is the goal. I don't think that looks to be the case. I don't believe diversity is this patch's goal. I can't say what the goal is because presently, it just seems to want to make fights harder and longer. And no idea why but apparently many players are looking forward to them. And many aren't. Go figure.