Dragonknight Morrowind PVP Concern

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Hello everyone,

I am not going to talk about the changes to DK in this update, what I am going to bring up which concerns me the most is the lack of necessity for a DK in a group now, small or large. Regardless of the nerfs DKs are taking that gut what makes a DK unique, the class only now brings one thing to a group that no one else does. Minor brutality.

Is wasting a slot in a pvp group for such a minor buff really needed?

Sorcs now root 100x better than DKs can with their aoe root and streak combination. Also the change to dodge roll talons is even less effective seeing as you cant just keep someone locked down along with how costly DK skills are.

Standard was very useful for the Major Defile - 250 ult cost; But now Warden has a aoe Major Defile through the use of a skill.

Zenimax you have now just under a month before Morrowind is released to us all. PLEASE take into consideration things like this with how the patches are going forward. Each class should bring something unique to a group, but with these changes you are making, DK just has no real place in pvp anymore.

Mostly agree, with overall changes during last updates and morrowind changes mDK looses just too much, here's my priority list of thing which it'd like to see implemented:

1. To not ruin identity of mDK placing flame lash on bar should change mele weapon damage from physical to magic/fire damage and return magicka on HA/LA
2. Increase TTL of wing to 6 seconds with 6 projectile cap or drop it cost twice
3. Increase talons to 8m radius or drop it cost twice
4. Increase Ash cloud to 8m radius and apply minor mangle or major maim(trying to be original, hah)
5. Fix dragon leap
6. Inferno should attack at least once per 3s, 5 seconds is eternity and 3 shots for 15 seconds is just laughable for not that huge damage
7. Reduce initial burning embers damage by 50%, reduce it's duration(not damage) from 8.5 to 5 seconds, increase overall dot damage by 30% (this stuff should burn people, not being spammable heal)

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

Yuke wrote: »

Mastermind decision from ZOS sadly.

Check which class has the highest population. Nerf it to the ground. Force highest population to buy new expansion for a new class with similar tank gameplay (replace fire theme with ice theme).

Thats how evil masterminds work sadly.

They've done that for greater good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

TheHsN · May 2017

i could agree with u if u didnt put SORC ahead....

Valencer · May 2017

DKs have been pretty bad in PvP groups for ages now.

Why use standard for a 30% healing debuff when negate locks enemy healers out of healing entirely?
Why use talons for rooting when encase is easier to use and less risky?
Deep Breath was good when proximity detonation had a cast time but that game is long gone.

Your sustain relying on battle roar is also a pretty big issue for group play where you often need to save your ultis for a while. Most of this stuff isnt new though.

Yuke · May 2017

Poliwrath wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Mastermind decision from ZOS sadly.

Check which class has the highest population. Nerf it to the ground. Force highest population to buy new expansion for a new class with similar tank gameplay (replace fire theme with ice theme).

Thats how evil masterminds work sadly.

too bad warden also does no dmg with its 1 ice ability. would have been cool as an ice mage

Yeah, we are not even close the point where we can discuss damage tho. First issue is sustain in an outnumbered situation, which i can achieve on a Warden, but not on a DK.

ZoM_Head · May 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

We've phased out DKs entirely from group PvP composition. Guildies with DK mains were told to reroll.

God damn man, you guys hit the DK hard XD

ZoM_Head · May 2017

Veg wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

We've been reduced to this as our only viable playstyle in morrowind

https://youtu.be/lzFBiKD_Wv4?t=3m37s

If we have enough damage then we dont have enough sustain or mitigation to kill anything.

If we have enough sustain and mitigation then we dont have enough damage to kill anything.

So now were back to useless tanking that accomplishes nothing and gets EVERYONE angry at our class. They also left igneous shield completely bugged for the lulz.

At least templars (closest things to mDK's in pvp) can still have enough damage to kill things without being a glass canon that just dies right away.

@Veg
Gear/setup?? Looks interesting
Some people watching this will probably feel dk´s need nerf because "infinite sustain" myth.....
But did anyone die?

I'll get some kills on glass canon pugs that forget to heal but i only have 33k magic and 2k spell damage in that build.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMcOuD_H2A&t=72s
some nb and people killed themselves on me

I'll post the build if i cant make a proper fighting build by morrowind. Wouldnt want to infect pvp with even more cancer.
I really dont enjoy tanking like that all the time. I want to fight other players but this is just the only thing mDK's can do now

That DK casted Reflective Fire Scales and still got knocked back, typical problem for the DK where as the skill does not always work.

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

We've been reduced to this as our only viable playstyle in morrowind

https://youtu.be/lzFBiKD_Wv4?t=3m37s

If we have enough damage then we dont have enough sustain or mitigation to kill anything.

If we have enough sustain and mitigation then we dont have enough damage to kill anything.

So now were back to useless tanking that accomplishes nothing and gets EVERYONE angry at our class. They also left igneous shield completely bugged for the lulz.

At least templars (closest things to mDK's in pvp) can still have enough damage to kill things without being a glass canon that just dies right away.

@Veg
Gear/setup?? Looks interesting
Some people watching this will probably feel dk´s need nerf because "infinite sustain" myth.....
But did anyone die?

I'll get some kills on glass canon pugs that forget to heal but i only have 33k magic and 2k spell damage in that build.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMcOuD_H2A&t=72s
some nb and people killed themselves on me

I'll post the build if i cant make a proper fighting build by morrowind. Wouldnt want to infect pvp with even more cancer.
I really dont enjoy tanking like that all the time. I want to fight other players but this is just the only thing mDK's can do now

That DK casted Reflective Fire Scales and still got knocked back, typical problem for the DK where as the skill does not always work.

In those case he's scales went down right before destro touch

Koolio · May 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Mastermind decision from ZOS sadly.

Check which class has the highest population. Nerf it to the ground. Force highest population to buy new expansion for a new class with similar tank gameplay (replace fire theme with ice theme).

Thats how evil masterminds work sadly.

They've done that for greater good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

Chants "The greater good"

MehrunesFlagon · May 2017

you don't find talons useful?

Ishammael · May 2017

The real kicker, in my opinion, was when I saw Major Heroism given to the Warden.

That passive on a DK would solve the sustain issues.

EldritchPenguin · May 2017

H4RDFOX wrote: »

Is this just speculation based on what you read, or actively playing PTS/BG's/Cyro? DK's will still be viable in my opinion. I mean, what happened when nightblades got the crap end of the stick (nerf)? We kept playing.

Yeah, they'll still be viable, but what about justifiable to use in a PvP setting? Because when one class has absolutely nothing that makes it stand out from the others, then it's seldom-to-never going to be seen in any serious play, regardless of how viable it is.

Asgari · May 2017

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

H4RDFOX wrote: »

Is this just speculation based on what you read, or actively playing PTS/BG's/Cyro? DK's will still be viable in my opinion. I mean, what happened when nightblades got the crap end of the stick (nerf)? We kept playing.

Yeah, they'll still be viable, but what about justifiable to use in a PvP setting? Because when one class has absolutely nothing that makes it stand out from the others, then it's seldom-to-never going to be seen in any serious play, regardless of how viable it is.

Exactly, people are coming in mad that at one point DK was too strong and feel like it should not be used at all now. The class just need a few fixes/changes to be balanced and viable in cyro and bg. Since there is that early launch there is 2 update left for them to do it.

Fix igneous not stacking and removing major mending
Elder Dragon should get Major Heroism and 2% cost reduction to class Skills
Reflect time increased to 6 seconds

Moglijuana · May 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

The real kicker, in my opinion, was when I saw Major Heroism given to the Warden.

That passive on a DK would solve the sustain issues.

Yea I really don't understand why they gave that to warden and not DK's.

Durham · May 2017

I was on my Stam DK last night just horrid.. I know of just one build that will allow me to somewhat compete... I counted the buffs I was casting to keep him alive 4 on 1 bar, 2 the other.... it's slow.. it's clunky ..

Ghostbane · May 2017

When the heavy attack meta for the tourists takes full swing, I'll still expect to see some mDKs, viably with a stave back in hand.

But any seasoned mDK, your most challenging time to stay dedicated to a poisoned class, approaches.

Asgari · May 2017

Ghostbane wrote: »

When the heavy attack meta for the tourists takes full swing, I'll still expect to see some mDKs, viably with a stave back in hand.

But any seasoned mDK, your most challenging time to stay dedicated to a poisoned class, approaches.

I will still be on my mDK, but there are a handful of issues that need to be fixed before 22nd or i dont see how pvp will survive.

Ghostbane · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

When the heavy attack meta for the tourists takes full swing, I'll still expect to see some mDKs, viably with a stave back in hand.

But any seasoned mDK, your most challenging time to stay dedicated to a poisoned class, approaches.

I will still be on my mDK, but there are a handful of issues that need to be fixed before 22nd or i dont see how pvp will survive.

Agreed, but we know exactly how that's going to go

HugeMuffin · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

When the heavy attack meta for the tourists takes full swing, I'll still expect to see some mDKs, viably with a stave back in hand.

But any seasoned mDK, your most challenging time to stay dedicated to a poisoned class, approaches.

I will still be on my mDK, but there are a handful of issues that need to be fixed before 22nd or i dont see how pvp will survive.

Newbies don't care about broken PvP. They're just going to roll what people tell them to roll, get frustrated because the skill gap is wider than it was before, and never return. It could be perfectly balanced, but with a skill curve that looks more like rapunzel's tower than a highway onramp, 3.0.X pvp is going to be cheese mode.

Ghost-Shot · May 2017

Ghostbane wrote: »

When the heavy attack meta for the tourists takes full swing, I'll still expect to see some mDKs, viably with a stave back in hand.

But any seasoned mDK, your most challenging time to stay dedicated to a poisoned class, approaches.

My body is not ready

NBrookus · May 2017

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

Asgari · May 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

Moglijuana · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

I play without major mending all the time lol. My workarounds:

-Heavy Resto (This is "meh" as its takes time to get off)
-Shield stack (Harness into a Healing Ward with a dodge roll will get you a heal)
-Shield stack + Mist (same as above but as soon as you hit healing ward go into mist and LOS. As mist finishes healing ward pops)
-8% increased healing poisions (idk what they're called but they work, paired with 8% increased healing from volatile it's pretty nice)
-CRIT (crit is often overlooked on DK's but you can get some sweeeet Burning Embers/Healing Ward heals)
-Burning Embers e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. (seriously, just do it)
-Malubeth (if you want to be like that)
-Resto Ulti + Bloodspawn (In a fight I can get resto ulti back a BUNCH of times and it increases your damage too!)
Pots (there a ton that give health back, just make sure to use a dodge roll + a shield to get the most out of it)

Uh, might have missed some, but yea it's not bad honestly. I've been playing without major mending for quite some time now.

DHale · May 2017

If streak worked I might agree and if encase actually didn't miss 30 percent of the time I would agree too.

NBrookus · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

Well yeah.... but it won't exist next patch for Igneous. And least not in any form that works in combat. (I was using resto heavies and harness magicka.)

I did hit an 18k leap tho. Tried a new build this afternoon; got a 15k whip (not even a power lashes). But near zero surviviability.

Asgari · May 2017

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

I play without major mending all the time lol. My workarounds:

-Heavy Resto (This is "meh" as its takes time to get off)
-Shield stack (Harness into a Healing Ward with a dodge roll will get you a heal)
-Shield stack + Mist (same as above but as soon as you hit healing ward go into mist and LOS. As mist finishes healing ward pops)
-8% increased healing poisions (idk what they're called but they work, paired with 8% increased healing from volatile it's pretty nice)
-CRIT (crit is often overlooked on DK's but you can get some sweeeet Burning Embers/Healing Ward heals)
-Burning Embers e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. (seriously, just do it)
-Malubeth (if you want to be like that)
-Resto Ulti + Bloodspawn (In a fight I can get resto ulti back a BUNCH of times and it increases your damage too!)
Pots (there a ton that give health back, just make sure to use a dodge roll + a shield to get the most out of it)

Uh, might have missed some, but yea it's not bad honestly. I've been playing without major mending for quite some time now.

I think the idea here is not being forced into resto staff again

Moglijuana · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

I play without major mending all the time lol. My workarounds:

-Heavy Resto (This is "meh" as its takes time to get off)
-Shield stack (Harness into a Healing Ward with a dodge roll will get you a heal)
-Shield stack + Mist (same as above but as soon as you hit healing ward go into mist and LOS. As mist finishes healing ward pops)
-8% increased healing poisions (idk what they're called but they work, paired with 8% increased healing from volatile it's pretty nice)
-CRIT (crit is often overlooked on DK's but you can get some sweeeet Burning Embers/Healing Ward heals)
-Burning Embers e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. (seriously, just do it)
-Malubeth (if you want to be like that)
-Resto Ulti + Bloodspawn (In a fight I can get resto ulti back a BUNCH of times and it increases your damage too!)
Pots (there a ton that give health back, just make sure to use a dodge roll + a shield to get the most out of it)

Uh, might have missed some, but yea it's not bad honestly. I've been playing without major mending for quite some time now.

I think the idea here is not being forced into resto staff again

Ah...well, in light armor resto is kind of needed unfortunately especially after that igneous nerf =/.

Asgari · May 2017

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

I play without major mending all the time lol. My workarounds:

-Heavy Resto (This is "meh" as its takes time to get off)
-Shield stack (Harness into a Healing Ward with a dodge roll will get you a heal)
-Shield stack + Mist (same as above but as soon as you hit healing ward go into mist and LOS. As mist finishes healing ward pops)
-8% increased healing poisions (idk what they're called but they work, paired with 8% increased healing from volatile it's pretty nice)
-CRIT (crit is often overlooked on DK's but you can get some sweeeet Burning Embers/Healing Ward heals)
-Burning Embers e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. (seriously, just do it)
-Malubeth (if you want to be like that)
-Resto Ulti + Bloodspawn (In a fight I can get resto ulti back a BUNCH of times and it increases your damage too!)
Pots (there a ton that give health back, just make sure to use a dodge roll + a shield to get the most out of it)

Uh, might have missed some, but yea it's not bad honestly. I've been playing without major mending for quite some time now.

I think the idea here is not being forced into resto staff again

Ah...well, in light armor resto is kind of needed unfortunately especially after that igneous nerf =/.

I think the point again is to make it so DK isnt forced into a resto staff. If igneous is fixed where we keep major mending when another igneous around us is cast we will be ok.

but right now if another DK uses igneous we lose major mending which makes no sense.

Moglijuana · May 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

I play without major mending all the time lol. My workarounds:

-Heavy Resto (This is "meh" as its takes time to get off)
-Shield stack (Harness into a Healing Ward with a dodge roll will get you a heal)
-Shield stack + Mist (same as above but as soon as you hit healing ward go into mist and LOS. As mist finishes healing ward pops)
-8% increased healing poisions (idk what they're called but they work, paired with 8% increased healing from volatile it's pretty nice)
-CRIT (crit is often overlooked on DK's but you can get some sweeeet Burning Embers/Healing Ward heals)
-Burning Embers e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. (seriously, just do it)
-Malubeth (if you want to be like that)
-Resto Ulti + Bloodspawn (In a fight I can get resto ulti back a BUNCH of times and it increases your damage too!)
Pots (there a ton that give health back, just make sure to use a dodge roll + a shield to get the most out of it)

Uh, might have missed some, but yea it's not bad honestly. I've been playing without major mending for quite some time now.

I think the idea here is not being forced into resto staff again

Ah...well, in light armor resto is kind of needed unfortunately especially after that igneous nerf =/.

I think the point again is to make it so DK isnt forced into a resto staff. If igneous is fixed where we keep major mending when another igneous around us is cast we will be ok.

but right now if another DK uses igneous we lose major mending which makes no sense.

Wait, seriously? That's s**t...>=/

Asgari · May 2017

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Was trying light armor and no igneous shield last night. Can't say it went well.

because you need major mending or you dont heal well at all on mDK.

I play without major mending all the time lol. My workarounds:

-Heavy Resto (This is "meh" as its takes time to get off)
-Shield stack (Harness into a Healing Ward with a dodge roll will get you a heal)
-Shield stack + Mist (same as above but as soon as you hit healing ward go into mist and LOS. As mist finishes healing ward pops)
-8% increased healing poisions (idk what they're called but they work, paired with 8% increased healing from volatile it's pretty nice)
-CRIT (crit is often overlooked on DK's but you can get some sweeeet Burning Embers/Healing Ward heals)
-Burning Embers e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. (seriously, just do it)
-Malubeth (if you want to be like that)
-Resto Ulti + Bloodspawn (In a fight I can get resto ulti back a BUNCH of times and it increases your damage too!)
Pots (there a ton that give health back, just make sure to use a dodge roll + a shield to get the most out of it)

Uh, might have missed some, but yea it's not bad honestly. I've been playing without major mending for quite some time now.

I think the idea here is not being forced into resto staff again

Ah...well, in light armor resto is kind of needed unfortunately especially after that igneous nerf =/.

I think the point again is to make it so DK isnt forced into a resto staff. If igneous is fixed where we keep major mending when another igneous around us is cast we will be ok.

but right now if another DK uses igneous we lose major mending which makes no sense.

Wait, seriously? That's s**t...>=/

yeah, thats a major issue. Its not hard to igneous and coag once or twice but if another dk is doing that near you, you are screwed on pts.