NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

@Liam12548 @NightbladeMechanics
Nobody forces you to put all points into your main pool and nothing into health.
Or use some health enchants instead.

But for the minmax crowd its good and makes sense. A dps Set shouldn't give sustain or survivability, thats what you can achieve with glyphs and your attribute points

I would never trade magicka attribute points for spell crit, which is what you're suggesting here. Thanks for not understanding how PvP builds and PvP min/maxing work.

These sets wouldn't even be BiS over scathing or bsw in PvE anyway, so why do you care so much about sun's health line? You do realize force pulse gives you like 70% uptime on scathing, right?

515*0,70=360 thats less than Netch gives.
It will be necro or Netch on sorc.
Sun will be bis for dk next Patch if they change The 2p aswell.


And I probably forgot more about pvp than you ever knew.
Spell crit could be worse. Sun isnt Best for pvp anyway. Not even for dk
Maybe even if und they dont

Trading attribute points or glyphs out for health to compensate for losing the line of health from the gear set is a dumb suggestion.

These are PvP sets exclusively because they will not be BiS for PvE dps over scathing or tbs or nmg.

What PvPers here would trade 1000 magicka or stamina before your percentage multipliers for 3% weapon or spell crit in order to remain at the same health level? Anyone? No. That's an awful trade.

laksikus wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

@Liam12548 @NightbladeMechanics
Nobody forces you to put all points into your main pool and nothing into health.
Or use some health enchants instead.

But for the minmax crowd its good and makes sense. A dps Set shouldn't give sustain or survivability, thats what you can achieve with glyphs and your attribute points

I would never trade magicka attribute points for spell crit, which is what you're suggesting here. Thanks for not understanding how PvP builds and PvP min/maxing work.

These sets wouldn't even be BiS over scathing or bsw in PvE anyway, so why do you care so much about sun's health line? You do realize force pulse gives you like 70% uptime on scathing, right?

515*0,70=360 thats less than Netch gives.
It will be necro or Netch on sorc.
Sun will be bis for dk next Patch if they change The 2p aswell.


And I probably forgot more about pvp than you ever knew.
Spell crit could be worse. Sun isnt Best for pvp anyway. Not even for dk
Maybe even if und they dont

Netch isn't amplified by major sorcery -- none of these "X damage type" sets are -- but scathing is. Also, sorcs will not use 100% lightning damage. They'll continue using blockade of fire for its increased damage and Ilambris procs, frag, curse, etc. You need to look at the big picture. This thread is becoming ridiculous.

And Necro is already BiS for sorc in fights where you can use the scamp. That will not change next patch from the looks of things.

Sun seems to be passed over incidentally and i hope its fixed

laksikus wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

@Liam12548 @NightbladeMechanics
Nobody forces you to put all points into your main pool and nothing into health.
Or use some health enchants instead.

But for the minmax crowd its good and makes sense. A dps Set shouldn't give sustain or survivability, thats what you can achieve with glyphs and your attribute points

I would never trade magicka attribute points for spell crit, which is what you're suggesting here. Thanks for not understanding how PvP builds and PvP min/maxing work.

These sets wouldn't even be BiS over scathing or bsw in PvE anyway, so why do you care so much about sun's health line? You do realize force pulse gives you like 70% uptime on scathing, right?

515*0,70=360 thats less than Netch gives.
It will be necro or Netch on sorc.
Sun will be bis for dk next Patch if they change The 2p aswell.


And I probably forgot more about pvp than you ever knew.
Spell crit could be worse. Sun isnt Best for pvp anyway. Not even for dk
Maybe even if und they dont

Netch isn't amplified by major sorcery -- none of these "X damage type" sets are -- but scathing is. Also, sorcs will not use 100% lightning damage. They'll continue using blockade of fire for its increased damage and Ilambris procs, frag, curse, etc. You need to look at the big picture. This thread is becoming ridiculous.

And Necro is already BiS for sorc in fights where you can use the scamp. That will not change next patch from the looks of things.

SUN Is amplified by major sorcery. I tested it yesterday. And Netch should work The same.
And Team playing sorcs use lightning Wall. Bigger picture is more group dps with off balance.
And scamp is lightning Too.

Will have to be tested but it should net more on a lightning sorc than scathing.
Scathing will be better on magnb

How did you test it? How do you know that its amplifying your base spell damage and sun, and not just the base spell damage?

For the people who say that sun etc are are boosted by sorcery, please tell me how you set up your experiment. If it is sufficient, I'll believe your results.

Ok this is how i tested it.

Character used Redguard NB with all CP set to 0. to get rid of all modificators that influence the damage calculation like ele expert, more flame damage from altmer etc.

The equipment was 5p green sun and 1 white inferno staff.
That gives me 285 base damage + 363 flame damage from sun.
Max magicka was 23600

Then i used this tool to look at the tooltip damage from blockade of fire.
http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Tool says 760 fire damage, tooltip on my bar says 760 (dont look at your skill lines if you reconstruct the test, cos skill line tooltip doesnt use the 363 dmg from sun)

Then I calculated what spelldamage i would have if major sorcery didnt apply to sun, and what if it did apply

285*1,2 + 363 = 705
285*1,2+ 363*1,2 = 777,6

Then I used the uesp tool with those 2 values
For 705 spelldamage = 775 tooltip
for 777,6 = 793 tooltip

Ingame tooltip with spellpower pot active = 793


I know of the rumors that major sorcery doesnt apply to sun or similar sets, thats why i double checked if its just an ui bug, with a damage test on slimeclaw

The base damage dot was 612 damage per tick.

Calculation for it
Mitigation calculation: (18200*(1-0.1)-4984)/50000 = 0,22792
Base damage calculation: 793 *(1-0,22792) = 612,25944

unless i forgot something, which i doubt, then Major sorcery and sun works perfectly well together.

In fact i dont know how the rumor even came up.
Every endgame minmaxer should know of @Asayre arithmetic
and he proved it back in October already.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3450780/#Comment_3450780

I ran a test early in Shadows of the Hist patch that isolated the sun 5pc bonus.

Wore 5 sun. Recorded damage on target with and without major sorcery.

Wore 4 sun, replacing the 5th with a piece from another armor set with the same weight, trait, and glyph. Recorded damage on the same target with and without major sorcery.

Difference in damage between 5 sun with and without major sorcery was equal to that between 4 sun with and without major sorcery, indicating the sun 5pc bonus did not benefit from the major sorcery buff.

I see conflicting accounts here. I'm prone to trust Asayre's testing, indicating an undocumented bug fix in One Tamriel, but naturally I'll have to retest for myself.

Hopefully the sets benefit from major sorcery. They should have from the beginning.

laksikus wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

@Liam12548 @NightbladeMechanics
Nobody forces you to put all points into your main pool and nothing into health.
Or use some health enchants instead.

But for the minmax crowd its good and makes sense. A dps Set shouldn't give sustain or survivability, thats what you can achieve with glyphs and your attribute points

I would never trade magicka attribute points for spell crit, which is what you're suggesting here. Thanks for not understanding how PvP builds and PvP min/maxing work.

These sets wouldn't even be BiS over scathing or bsw in PvE anyway, so why do you care so much about sun's health line? You do realize force pulse gives you like 70% uptime on scathing, right?

And I probably forgot more about pvp than you ever knew.
Spell crit could be worse. Sun isnt Best for pvp anyway. Not even for dk
Maybe even if und they dont

I missed this little gem. Careful.

Sun was the most sought after PvP set for mDKs for a long time prior to One Tamriel, when spellweave and spinner came onto the scene.

With spellweave receiving a nerf and light armor shield stacking builds likely to increase in prevalence next patch, sun could easily return to popularity, especially if it benefits from major sorcery. Its line of health will be attractive for mDKs using light armor, too.

laksikus wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

@Liam12548 @NightbladeMechanics
Nobody forces you to put all points into your main pool and nothing into health.
Or use some health enchants instead.

But for the minmax crowd its good and makes sense. A dps Set shouldn't give sustain or survivability, thats what you can achieve with glyphs and your attribute points

I would never trade magicka attribute points for spell crit, which is what you're suggesting here. Thanks for not understanding how PvP builds and PvP min/maxing work.

These sets wouldn't even be BiS over scathing or bsw in PvE anyway, so why do you care so much about sun's health line? You do realize force pulse gives you like 70% uptime on scathing, right?

515*0,70=360 thats less than Netch gives.
It will be necro or Netch on sorc.
Sun will be bis for dk next Patch if they change The 2p aswell.


And I probably forgot more about pvp than you ever knew.
Spell crit could be worse. Sun isnt Best for pvp anyway. Not even for dk
Maybe even if und they dont

Netch isn't amplified by major sorcery -- none of these "X damage type" sets are -- but scathing is. Also, sorcs will not use 100% lightning damage. They'll continue using blockade of fire for its increased damage and Ilambris procs, frag, curse, etc. You need to look at the big picture. This thread is becoming ridiculous.

And Necro is already BiS for sorc in fights where you can use the scamp. That will not change next patch from the looks of things.

SUN Is amplified by major sorcery. I tested it yesterday. And Netch should work The same.
And Team playing sorcs use lightning Wall. Bigger picture is more group dps with off balance.
And scamp is lightning Too.

Will have to be tested but it should net more on a lightning sorc than scathing.
Scathing will be better on magnb

Talked about sun and sorcery above.

Only one player would need to use blockade of lightning to debuff mobs. That is a utility variant of the BiS setup, not BiS itself. Don't generalize.

Volatile familiar receives no damage from the player's spell damage. Not sure if netch is an exception to this rule. It's worth testing specifically.

There are pvp sets available in Cyrodiil for you to use in pvp.

This is a pve set that drops from a pve instance, the change is very good.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

There are pvp sets available in Cyrodiil for you to use in pvp.

This is a pve set that drops from a pve instance, the change is very good.

K buff those sets to be as good then. There are fewer Cyrodiil sets than there are drop sets from outside of Cyrodiil, and a greater proportion of Cyrodiil sets go utterly unused than PvE drop sets.

We're not second class citizens. *** off with that attitude.

Also, PvEers use a much narrower variety of sets in their race for BiS min/max. These sets are not BiS, so the change is irrelevant to PvE. So what's your reason for considering the change good?

Why buff anything in pvp? It's just going to spawn 84747494 new nerf this nerf that qq thread, that will negatively impact the rest of the game as usual.

And fewer sets because it's a smaller portion of the player base = logic.

And yes, with the nerf to BSW, those sets are actually viable and will promote more diverse builds in pve now.

@WhiteMage I retested whether Major Sorcery applies to War Maiden's 5pc on PTS, and it does! This is great news. At some point since Shadows of the Hist, ZOS made these sets take the buff before applying to our tooltips. I suddenly really want to use War Maiden next patch, even if I'll miss that line of health.

They could have change it to stamina/magicka and it would be compromise for everyone...

Regarding Silks of the Sun: Being buffed by Major Sorcery already sounds really good, but does it now also buff Flame Damage proccing from sets, like Grothdaar?

As far as I remember, Sun only buffs abilities and inferno staff attacks, so did anybody test this? Or is my memory wrong on this one?