1 Minor Nerf to Sorc is a Giant Slap in the Face to Everyone Else

Calindel · May 2017

I know, another thread on this, I get it.

That being said, this is outrageous and everyone needs to be calling out zenimax on it. I am sick of tired of mag sorcs dominating PVE and stam sorcs facerolling PVP. The playerbase has been screaming for actual sorc nerfs forever, literally, such as nerfing Dark Deal or their Shields. This minor nerf to frags is absurd, as a Templar I have been completely undressed patch after patch, we are 1 more Wroebel idea away from becoming Nightblades, im sure DKs feel the same way.

Enough of the Elder Sorcs Online, if you insist on burning everyone's class to the ground then fkng do it to ALL the classes, I am sick of Sorc going virtually untouched week after week.

LeifErickson · May 2017

Have you played on the PTS? I haven't been on too much but when I have I didn't notice these classes overperforming. A lot of my friends play on PTS daily and they haven't complained about either of these classes either. When you were on PTS with a PTS build, did you actually think these classes were overperforming? The funny thing is that what I have heard is that magplar is super strong. One of my friends even literally created a maglar on live to have it ready for next patch.

CyrusArya · May 2017

The playerbase screams for sorc nerfs cus the playerbase is mostly bad. And yes, against bad players, some sorcs may seem OP AF. Against a good player on any class, its not a face roll at all.

FYI, there is a major nerf incoming to sorcs that a lot of people are not aware of, and thats the unbreakable eclipse that templars are getting. A single templar present in a fight with that skill will pretty much totally shut down any sorc.

Sandman929 · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

The playerbase screams for sorc nerfs cus the playerbase is mostly bad. And yes, against bad players, some sorcs may seem OP AF. Against a good player on any class, its not a face roll at all.

FYI, there is a major nerf incoming to sorcs that a lot of people are not aware of, and thats the unbreakable eclipse that templars are getting. A single templar present in a fight with that skill will pretty much totally shut down any sorc.

Eclipse is gonna be tough on sorcs, that's true.

Xvorg · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

The playerbase screams for sorc nerfs cus the playerbase is mostly bad. And yes, against bad players, some sorcs may seem OP AF. Against a good player on any class, its not a face roll at all.

FYI, there is a major nerf incoming to sorcs that a lot of people are not aware of, and thats the unbreakable eclipse that templars are getting. A single templar present in a fight with that skill will pretty much totally shut down any sorc.

The player base want to nerf the "easy smash button" class... Even good players of any class consider that sorc is easy mode.

Solariken · May 2017

I'm fine with almost everything about Sorcs except shields and Dark Exchange (both morphs)

Shields are too strong when they can be stacked and scale on the same stat as your damage. It's so stupid that you can stack more shield than HP and be immune to crits and status effect procs, etc.

Because mSorcs are the best ranged burst + best mobility + on-demand resource return, they shouldn't be able to stand and face-tank damage like they do - they should have to rely more on kiting and area-of-denial.

Both flavors of sorc get too much benefit from Dark Exchange - the heal is fine but the stamina/magicka return should not exceed the cost.

CyrusArya · May 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

The player base want to nerf the "easy smash button" class... Even good players of any class consider that sorc is easy mode.

It's situational. Not gonna deny that the class is obviously extremely powerful in some situations. In others? Not so much. Shield stacking is strong, but its effectiveness diminishes rapidly as number of people targeting the sorc goes up, in a way that other defensive mechanics don't. Furthermore, the sorc is the only class that can be shut down offensively if played against properly. Sorc face tanking is also a myth perpetuated by low dps and weak combos. Good luck face tanking just two competent stam builds for any significant amount of time.

Like I said, sorc is only easy mode against bad players. A skilled player will make a sorc work extremely hard for a kill.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Eclipse will affect mageblade way more than sorc. You will have to hold your frags for 3.5s. I'll have to stop attacking altogether.

usmcjdking · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

The player base want to nerf the "easy smash button" class... Even good players of any class consider that sorc is easy mode.

It's situational. Not gonna deny that the class is obviously extremely powerful in some situations. In others? Not so much. Shield stacking is strong, but its effectiveness diminishes rapidly as number of people targeting the sorc goes up, in a way that other defensive mechanics don't. Furthermore, the sorc is the only class that can be shut down offensively if played against properly. Sorc face tanking is also a myth perpetuated by low dps and weak combos. Good luck face tanking just two competent stam builds for any significant amount of time.

Like I said, sorc is only easy mode against bad players. A skilled player will make a sorc work extremely hard for a kill.

There is absolutely nothing balanced or sensible about being able to outright deny someone their critical chance and their critical hit modifier. For builds that rely on critical damage, shields will passively reduce your damage output by anywhere between 30-40%. Saying shields cannot face tank damage is absolutely absurd when the passive, unwarranted effects it causes towards the other players crushes their damage output to a degree that's matched by heavy armor & 4 impen.

Lore_lai · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Eclipse will affect mageblade way more than sorc. You will have to hold your frags for 3.5s. I'll have to stop attacking altogether.

It's actually 4.6 seconds (Enduring Rays).

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Lore_lai wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Eclipse will affect mageblade way more than sorc. You will have to hold your frags for 3.5s. I'll have to stop attacking altogether.

It's actually 4.6 seconds (Enduring Rays).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . u wot?

Gilvoth · May 2017

Calindel wrote: »

I know, another thread on this, I get it.
1 Minor Nerf to Sorc is a Giant Slap in the Face to Everyone Else
That being said, this is outrageous and everyone needs to be calling out zenimax on it. I am sick of tired of mag sorcs dominating PVE and stam sorcs facerolling PVP. The playerbase has been screaming for actual sorc nerfs forever, literally, such as nerfing Dark Deal or their Shields. This minor nerf to frags is absurd, as a Templar I have been completely undressed patch after patch, we are 1 more Wroebel idea away from becoming Nightblades, im sure DKs feel the same way.

Enough of the Elder Sorcs Online, if you insist on burning everyone's class to the ground then fkng do it to ALL the classes, I am sick of Sorc going virtually untouched week after week.

well said!

Asgari · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Eclipse will affect mageblade way more than sorc. You will have to hold your frags for 3.5s. I'll have to stop attacking altogether.

It's actually 4.6 seconds (Enduring Rays).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . u wot?

yep lol

CyrusArya · May 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing balanced or sensible about being able to outright deny someone their critical chance and their critical hit modifier. For builds that rely on critical damage, shields will passively reduce your damage output by anywhere between 30-40%. Saying shields cannot face tank damage is absolutely absurd when the passive, unwarranted effects it causes towards the other players crushes their damage output to a degree that's matched by heavy armor & 4 impen.

You're not denying crit though, you're only denying it when the shields are up. The reason stamina DoT builds shred sorcs for example is because once those shields go down, everything can crit at once and 2 shot the sorc within the shields. You want shields to be crit-able? Fine...give them armor resists and impen resist then. The reason shields can't be crit is obviously because shields themselves cant crit, so its pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned. Standardized damage for a standardized defensive mechanic.

Sorcs can face tank damage, in a 1v1 situation. So can any other class. What I'm talking about is the myth of sorcs face tanking many players and not going down. That only happens against weak players that cant apply pressure appropriately. No way a sorc is gonna face tank 2+ equally skilled players for very long at all.

Lore_lai · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Eclipse will affect mageblade way more than sorc. You will have to hold your frags for 3.5s. I'll have to stop attacking altogether.

It's actually 4.6 seconds (Enduring Rays).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . u wot?

This is now a Nerf TEMPLAR thread?

Olupajmibanan · May 2017

Wasn't Hurricane (a main stamsorc skill) nerfed just a while ago? Reacting to "Sorc is untouched since 10000 b.c." posts.

Now something constructive
PvP wise:
Tried Stamsorc (Veli,Black Rose, Agility, MSA Maul, MSA bow) in BGs.
With the sustain changes (especially constitution nerf) I struggled for resources even when I was frequently Dark Dealing. We will be most likely forced to go full medium, not for better resources but to have better damage and bursting opponents down before running out of resources.
That being said, in real situation I haven't found Dark Deal a real advantage. I always called it a "blessing" while playing in Azura's Star. But now (at least for me) it's more of a burden after the sustain nerf and character of BG fights (which I won't talk about because it's under NDA).

Nerfing Dark Deal would only push StamSorc to stronger burst builds, ignoring sustain and just focusing on killing before running out of resources.

As for Magsorc. Shields are expensive and now with the sustain nerf (the light armor nerf lol) magicka sorc is really in bad spot when forced to play defensive. Bringing them to the point when they just have to Shield Spam and Mine Camp is usually end for them and they are just delaying the inevitable. Again, the character of BG fights (NDA) puts magicka sorcs in not really favorable spot, trust me.

I really recommend trying it on PTS. You will see that Sorcerer isn't that divine as you describe it.

Thalmor-Nordmaster · May 2017

My sorc is like majorly lame after being beaten to a pulp by essa and fam. It has become the fastest streakin flower picker on nirn.I do not think the sorc class will make it through all of the PTS iterations unscathed. Each iteration is providing data that will be used in the next PTS release.

Facts win debates they stand on their own merits. If the facts support problems after the PTS goes live then of course adjustments will be made.

Guars do poop in the woods. That's how blueberries are made.

usmcjdking · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing balanced or sensible about being able to outright deny someone their critical chance and their critical hit modifier. For builds that rely on critical damage, shields will passively reduce your damage output by anywhere between 30-40%. Saying shields cannot face tank damage is absolutely absurd when the passive, unwarranted effects it causes towards the other players crushes their damage output to a degree that's matched by heavy armor & 4 impen.

You're not denying crit though, you're only denying it when the shields are up. The reason stamina DoT builds shred sorcs for example is because once those shields go down, everything can crit at once and 2 shot the sorc within the shields. You want shields to be crit-able? Fine...give them armor resists and impen resist then. The reason shields can't be crit is obviously because shields themselves cant crit, so its pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned. Standardized damage for a standardized defensive mechanic.

Shields being unable to crit is not attributable towards not being able to crit shields. Shields are a mitigation tool, not a recovery tool, not a damage tool. Can shuffle crit? Can blocking crit? Can you crit roll dodge? How about crit mist form? None of these prohibit you from landing critical damage on the target and shields should be no exception.

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

Funny thing: one second of blocking in Morrowind with S&B and a lot of CP into block cost will costs 3x more than sorc shield, yay, balance

CyrusArya · May 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Shields being unable to crit is not attributable towards not being able to crit shields. Shields are a mitigation tool, not a recovery tool, not a damage tool. Can shuffle crit? Can blocking crit? Can you crit roll dodge? How about crit mist form? None of these prohibit you from landing critical damage on the target and shields should be no exception.

Shields are quite different from dodge and block tho, and its not exactly a reasonable comparison. How would evasion crit? That doesn't even make sense. My point is, shields are a unique mechanic and thats why they have unique properties. I'm sure there is some reason as to why they work the way they do, maybe one of the devs can share some wisdom. In my unprofessional opinion, it has something to do with how every cast of a shield provides a set value of damage absorption.

Regardless, my point still stands that should shields be susceptible to crit damage, then they should also also have regular and critical resistance. As it stands, no they don't get crit but they do take full tool tip damage on every hit, and that any overflow damage will crit should the shields drop.

LeifErickson · May 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing balanced or sensible about being able to outright deny someone their critical chance and their critical hit modifier. For builds that rely on critical damage, shields will passively reduce your damage output by anywhere between 30-40%. Saying shields cannot face tank damage is absolutely absurd when the passive, unwarranted effects it causes towards the other players crushes their damage output to a degree that's matched by heavy armor & 4 impen.

You're not denying crit though, you're only denying it when the shields are up. The reason stamina DoT builds shred sorcs for example is because once those shields go down, everything can crit at once and 2 shot the sorc within the shields. You want shields to be crit-able? Fine...give them armor resists and impen resist then. The reason shields can't be crit is obviously because shields themselves cant crit, so its pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned. Standardized damage for a standardized defensive mechanic.

Shields being unable to crit is not attributable towards not being able to crit shields. Shields are a mitigation tool, not a recovery tool, not a damage tool. Can shuffle crit? Can blocking crit? Can you crit roll dodge? How about crit mist form? None of these prohibit you from landing critical damage on the target and shields should be no exception.

Healing

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

LeifErickson wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing balanced or sensible about being able to outright deny someone their critical chance and their critical hit modifier. For builds that rely on critical damage, shields will passively reduce your damage output by anywhere between 30-40%. Saying shields cannot face tank damage is absolutely absurd when the passive, unwarranted effects it causes towards the other players crushes their damage output to a degree that's matched by heavy armor & 4 impen.

You're not denying crit though, you're only denying it when the shields are up. The reason stamina DoT builds shred sorcs for example is because once those shields go down, everything can crit at once and 2 shot the sorc within the shields. You want shields to be crit-able? Fine...give them armor resists and impen resist then. The reason shields can't be crit is obviously because shields themselves cant crit, so its pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned. Standardized damage for a standardized defensive mechanic.

Shields being unable to crit is not attributable towards not being able to crit shields. Shields are a mitigation tool, not a recovery tool, not a damage tool. Can shuffle crit? Can blocking crit? Can you crit roll dodge? How about crit mist form? None of these prohibit you from landing critical damage on the target and shields should be no exception.

Healing

Healing does not gives any time for offence, and available for every class, sorcs are not exclusion.

Xvorg · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

The player base want to nerf the "easy smash button" class... Even good players of any class consider that sorc is easy mode.

It's situational. Not gonna deny that the class is obviously extremely powerful in some situations. In others? Not so much. Shield stacking is strong, but its effectiveness diminishes rapidly as number of people targeting the sorc goes up, in a way that other defensive mechanics don't. Furthermore, the sorc is the only class that can be shut down offensively if played against properly. Sorc face tanking is also a myth perpetuated by low dps and weak combos. Good luck face tanking just two competent stam builds for any significant amount of time.

Like I said, sorc is only easy mode against bad players. A skilled player will make a sorc work extremely hard for a kill.

If sorc is easy mode against bad players... other classes are hard mode against bad players too?

I don't understand you argumentation. Do you really believe that any non sorc defeated by a sorc is a bad player? That's childlishly straightforward

CyrusArya · May 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Healing does not gives any time for offence, and available for every class, sorcs are not exclusion.

Its literally the other way around. you can't actively apply shields while dealing damage, its either or (as a sorc), whereas classes that rely on heal over time affects can easily apply pressure while simultaneously healing.

Xvorg wrote: »

If sorc is easy mode against bad players... other classes are hard mode against bad players too?

I don't understand you argumentation. Do you really believe that any non sorc defeated by a sorc is a bad player? That's childlishly straightforward

Clearly you don't understand cus thats not at all what I said. Every class is easy mode against bad players. What I'm saying is, the vast majority of complaints regarding fighting sorcs are learn to play issues. A person who knows how to fight a sorc will not go down to one easily. If sorc was actually overpowered, than it wouldn't stall out so bad in evenly matched encounters. It's for this reason that while mag sorc is my favorite class open world, its one of my least favorite in duels. Because its so predictable and counter-able.

Iyas · May 2017

Oh god stop the crying. Only class who deserve to cry is DK. Everything else is working in the hands of a good player

Draqone · May 2017

Calindel wrote: »

I know, another thread on this, I get it.

That being said, this is outrageous and everyone needs to be calling out zenimax on it. I am sick of tired of mag sorcs dominating PVE and stam sorcs facerolling PVP. The playerbase has been screaming for actual sorc nerfs forever, literally, such as nerfing Dark Deal or their Shields. This minor nerf to frags is absurd, as a Templar I have been completely undressed patch after patch, we are 1 more Wroebel idea away from becoming Nightblades, im sure DKs feel the same way.

Enough of the Elder Sorcs Online, if you insist on burning everyone's class to the ground then fkng do it to ALL the classes, I am sick of Sorc going virtually untouched week after week.

Xvorg · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Healing does not gives any time for offence, and available for every class, sorcs are not exclusion.

Its literally the other way around. you can't actively apply shields while dealing damage, its either or (as a sorc), whereas classes that rely on heal over time affects can easily apply pressure while simultaneously healing.

Xvorg wrote: »

If sorc is easy mode against bad players... other classes are hard mode against bad players too?

I don't understand you argumentation. Do you really believe that any non sorc defeated by a sorc is a bad player? That's childlishly straightforward

Clearly you don't understand cus thats not at all what I said. Every class is easy mode against bad players. What I'm saying is, the vast majority of complaints regarding fighting sorcs are learn to play issues. A person who knows how to fight a sorc will not go down to one easily. If sorc was actually overpowered, than it wouldn't stall out so bad in evenly matched encounters. It's for this reason that while mag sorc is my favorite class open world, its one of my least favorite in duels. Because its so predictable and counter-able.

You know how I know sorc is OP? I have a hybrid sorc running 2H/bow, and she DESTROYS other non sorcs. The only counter she has is sorc itself.

Regarding on how to play against a sorc, sorry, but no class can counter sorcs, but sorcs. DKs had their block builds which are now destroyed. Temps had their malucancer builds, now nerfed, NBs had cloak, which has been nerfed to the ground...

Sorc is the only class that can shut down sorc, because sorc burst is the stronger in this game. No other class can achieve similar numbers than sorc in burst, maybe some ganker NBs, but that's ending this coming patch.

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Healing does not gives any time for offence, and available for every class, sorcs are not exclusion.

Its literally the other way around. you can't actively apply shields while dealing damage, its either or (as a sorc), whereas classes that rely on heal over time affects can easily apply pressure while simultaneously healing.

Xvorg wrote: »

If sorc is easy mode against bad players... other classes are hard mode against bad players too?

I don't understand you argumentation. Do you really believe that any non sorc defeated by a sorc is a bad player? That's childlishly straightforward

Clearly you don't understand cus thats not at all what I said. Every class is easy mode against bad players. What I'm saying is, the vast majority of complaints regarding fighting sorcs are learn to play issues. A person who knows how to fight a sorc will not go down to one easily. If sorc was actually overpowered, than it wouldn't stall out so bad in evenly matched encounters. It's for this reason that while mag sorc is my favorite class open world, its one of my least favorite in duels. Because its so predictable and counter-able.

As sorc you run infernal guardian and does deal damage and i'm pretty sure it's about 95% of magsorcs, others just don't have desired traits.

NyassaV · May 2017

Either the sorc needs a nerf or everything else needs a buff. ZoS can take their pick but everyone is getting a little tired of all the BS being thrown around

cschwingeb14_ESO · May 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing balanced or sensible about being able to outright deny someone their critical chance and their critical hit modifier. For builds that rely on critical damage, shields will passively reduce your damage output by anywhere between 30-40%. Saying shields cannot face tank damage is absolutely absurd when the passive, unwarranted effects it causes towards the other players crushes their damage output to a degree that's matched by heavy armor & 4 impen.

You're not denying crit though, you're only denying it when the shields are up. The reason stamina DoT builds shred sorcs for example is because once those shields go down, everything can crit at once and 2 shot the sorc within the shields. You want shields to be crit-able? Fine...give them armor resists and impen resist then. The reason shields can't be crit is obviously because shields themselves cant crit, so its pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned. Standardized damage for a standardized defensive mechanic.

Shields being unable to crit is not attributable towards not being able to crit shields. Shields are a mitigation tool, not a recovery tool, not a damage tool. Can shuffle crit? Can blocking crit? Can you crit roll dodge? How about crit mist form? None of these prohibit you from landing critical damage on the target and shields should be no exception.

Healing

Healing does not gives any time for offence, and available for every class, sorcs are not exclusion.

Maybe you should try casting some HoTs then. They are FAN-freaking-tastic for that purpose.

Weps · May 2017

Blazing Shield can crit.
Fragmented Shield can crit.

What was that about shields not being able to crit so shouldn't be crittable?