New CP system is awesome!

StereoLiz · April 2017

I just want to say how I am surpised and impressed by CP changes. When I read about lowering strong passives and improving weaker passives I can't imagine how cool it would be.
For example, now on live I put 100 in mighty and get 25% damage increase. On PTS I get 15% if I put 100 points and around 12.57% if I put 60. So if I'll lose 2.43% damage increase I can put 40 points in another passive. In this way I can have it all! New direct damage passive looks very strong. Hardy and elemental defender nerfed - hello, thick skinned, light armour expert, bastion and quick recovery! First time you will get more that 10 points.
I really like how siphoner and mooncalf/arcanist balance each other. In current system recovery passives don't have any conterplay. But its important that siphoner from different players shouldn't stack, otherwise it will be nightmare.
I want to say more about how cool it is and what opportunity I see in it, but my english is not good enough, sorry :-D

Overall changes seem sooo good, so may be max cp players will benefit from it more than players who have less than 630.
So, people, did you already try to redistribute cp? What do you think?

Edit: just checked PTS and set correct % number.

Goshua · April 2017

you wear LA and have points in mighty and the like as well?

StereoLiz · April 2017

I have 8 characters - some of them magicka and some - stamina. I named passives just for example.

Beardimus · April 2017

Spot on, some who gets it! They bringing balance, and diversity in the CP side and sustain so we can spread our points for wider gains

greylox · April 2017

Sounds good.

joaaocaampos · April 2017

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

Aerius_Sygale · April 2017

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

Turelus · April 2017

Does this mean people will stop crying they can't have damage and Treasure Hunter?

DaveMoeDee · April 2017

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

I feel like people have lost their minds over major mending. As if just that change makes warden op and everyone else obsolete at everything.

Aerius_Sygale · April 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

I feel like people have lost their minds over major mending. As if just that change makes warden op and everyone else obsolete at everything.

...That was just an example, you are not supposed to bog down on that... This is why things do not get fixed, only made worse! I better start making gaming back-up plans, this is doomed. Several thousand hours of my life down the drain.

FearlessOne_2014 · April 2017

StereoLiz wrote: »

I just want to say how I am surpised and impressed by CP changes. When I read about lowering strong passives and improving weaker passives I can't imagine how cool it would be.
For example, now on live I put 100 in mighty and get 25% damage increase. On PTS I get 15% if I put 100 points and around 13,8% if I put 60. So if I'll lose 1,2% damage increase I can put 40 points in another passive. In this way I can have it all! New direct damage passive looks very strong. Hardy and elemental defender nerfed - hello, thick skinned, light armour expert, bastion and quick recovery! First time you will get more that 10 points.
I really like how siphoner and mooncalf/arcanist balance each other. In current system recovery passives don't have any conterplay. But its important that siphoner from different players shouldn't stack, otherwise it will be nightmare.
I want to say more about how cool it is and what opportunity I see in it, but my english is not good enough, sorry :-D

Overall changes seem sooo good, so may be max cp players will benefit from it more than players who have less than 630.
So, people, did you already try to redistribute cp? What do you think?

Yeah the I also like the changes to the CP system. It's currently just grossly over powered atm on live. Maybe one day ZOS will completely get rid of the CP system for something better and more skill based. More then likely not, but one can dream, right.

psychotic13 · April 2017

At first I wasn't happy, but after taking all my builds into azuras and tweaking them accordingly I can't wait now, the cp changes ain't going to be a problem as I'll be in battlegrounds anyway.

DaveMoeDee · April 2017

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

I feel like people have lost their minds over major mending. As if just that change makes warden op and everyone else obsolete at everything.

...That was just an example, you are not supposed to bog down on that... This is why things do not get fixed, only made worse! I better start making gaming back-up plans, this is doomed. Several thousand hours of my life down the drain.

Apart from warden having major mending and templar losing it, what else are people using to claim that warden is a master class? People have mentioned nerfs to multiple classes, but those don't make warden better. They just make the nerfed class less powerful than it was before.

Please explain why warden is better than DK, or better than Sorc.

Talking about "nerfs [to] non-Warden classes" doesn't make much sense when there was no baseline comparison to warden before now. It isn't like you have any idea how they may have nerfed warden compared to earlier iterations. You have no idea how warden will play compared to other classes.

It isn't like they needed to weaken other classes to make warden better. They could have made the warden better without that. It is far more likely that they changed the other classes for balance reasons not intended to make them weaker than warden.

lucky_Sage · April 2017

the cp system still sucks
disable cp for atleast a month and balance everything in game with out cp and then re-add them and see what they do. then come up with a brand new version that is 100% different from current one

FearlessOne_2014 · April 2017

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the cp system still sucks
disable cp for atleast a month and balance everything in game with out cp and then re-add them and see what they do. then come up with a brand new version that is 100% different from current one

I agree with you.

However this might be too much work for ZOS. ZOS would have to rebalance the whole game if their completely took the CP system away for one month. From every NPC, Quest, Dungeon, Trial... well you get the point.

Tavore1138 · April 2017

I don't think anyone really has a problem with the CP changes if taken in isolation, heavier front loading on the stars makes it easier for new players to obtain parity in key areas and encourages older players to be more diverse... some reduction to sustain was probably needed (although the troll builds really just need a more focused set of nerfs that impact PvP only).

The issues come when you look at all the other changes they have made to make combat a less rewarding more tedious experience. Far better pla67yers than I have gone into very great detail to demonstrate that so I won't repeat it all here...

Arenguros · April 2017

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the cp system still sucks
disable cp for atleast a month and balance everything in game with out cp and then re-add them and see what they do. then come up with a brand new version that is 100% different from current one

I agree with you.

However this might be too much work for ZOS. ZOS would have to rebalance the whole game if their completely took the CP system away for one month. From every NPC, Quest, Dungeon, Trial... well you get the point.

Quests and any overland content do not need to be changed, nor do normal dungeons - these are already balanced around leveling players with no CP (and crap gear).

The only things that might need a change are trials, maybe vet dungeons and vMA.
And here you can just calculate, what % increase to dps/defenses are gained on average and give all mobs a permanent debuff to balance this out.

F7sus4 · April 2017

ESO's CP system anno domini 2020:

Edwardism - Increase the glowing effect on your armor up to 25% (100 pts. spent)
Merchant Favored - Increase the chance of vendors providing 1 more gold on each sale up to 1% (100 pts. spent)
Beast Friend - Increase the happiness level of your non-combat pets by 35% (100 pts. spent)
Crown Master - Decrease the cost of Crown Crates by up to 1 Crown (100 pts. spent)
Indestructible - Provide +50 Spell Resistance with 5 Light Armor pieces slotted (100 pts. spent)
Versatile - Provide -1 sec. to Group Finder queues (100 pts. spent + requires 10000 Crowns spent on Crates)

And so on... etc.

Jammer480 · April 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z_YMMwBE_o

Mettaricana · April 2017

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

I get the feeling your gonna be one of those guys who kicks a player from a group or trial for playing a warden

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Mettaricana wrote: »

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

I get the feeling your gonna be one of those guys who kicks a player from a group or trial for playing a warden

Nightblades already get kicked.

ashenb14_ESO · April 2017

StereoLiz wrote: »

I just want to say how I am surpised and impressed by CP changes. When I read about lowering strong passives and improving weaker passives I can't imagine how cool it would be.
For example, now on live I put 100 in mighty and get 25% damage increase. On PTS I get 15% if I put 100 points and around 12.57% if I put 60. So if I'll lose 2.43% damage increase I can put 40 points in another passive. In this way I can have it all! New direct damage passive looks very strong. Hardy and elemental defender nerfed - hello, thick skinned, light armour expert, bastion and quick recovery! First time you will get more that 10 points.
I really like how siphoner and mooncalf/arcanist balance each other. In current system recovery passives don't have any conterplay. But its important that siphoner from different players shouldn't stack, otherwise it will be nightmare.
I want to say more about how cool it is and what opportunity I see in it, but my english is not good enough, sorry :-D

Overall changes seem sooo good, so may be max cp players will benefit from it more than players who have less than 630.
So, people, did you already try to redistribute cp? What do you think?

Edit: just checked PTS and set correct % number.

watch this example of what the changes do, they are not good for pve, just pvp, but since thats all zos give a crap about...that and selling warden..thus all the patches to nerf ***, to make pvp more balanced, that also nerf us pve players to crap....

@Gilliamtherogue did a good video showing the effects of this patch on pts, i have tested it, as have several of my friends, we all found that it CRIPPLES sustain such that, you cant even last thru many of the *** dungeon mini-bosses without resorting to heavy attacks constantly between skills....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK5D32QGsy0&t=2928s

Jammer480 · April 2017

ashenb14_ESO wrote: »

watch this example of what the changes do, they are not good for pve, just pvp, but since thats all zos give a crap about...that and selling warden..thus all the patches to nerf ***, to make pvp more balanced, that also nerf us pve players to crap....

@Gilliamtherogue did a good video showing the effects of this patch on pts, i have tested it, as have several of my friends, we all found that it CRIPPLES sustain such that, you cant even last thru many of the *** dungeon mini-bosses without resorting to heavy attacks constantly between skills....

So all we have to do is weave heavy attacks? I don't see the problem with that. Will it slow the game down slightly? Sure. Will it mean changes to rotation and gear? Sure. I still don't see the problem.

Zedrian · April 2017

I am mostly a PVE player and the changes from Magician to Syphoner (Magic cost reduction to Regen sapping on enemy players) and Warlord (Stamina cost reduction to Break free cost reduction) are a loss for PVE players and a boon for PVP players. In the green constellations you have very little choices for PVE as a matter of fact...

In the red constellations the same is true... Really a pity because in this patch it gives me the impression that the Champion points are designed for PVP, but at the same time Zenimax thought that Champion points were the cause of the lags and considered removing CPs from Cyrodil. (Remember the 0 CP event, it was actually the most fun I ever had in PVP...)

As it is, I think PVE players at all level will feel neglected next patch despite the addition of PVE content... really a pity. PVE players have very little choice while PVP players have a lot of great choices. I don't mind spending 3k gold to change CP based on the content that I play, and I do that for every trial, vma, dsa, pvp anyways.

Also for PVE the champion points is too catered into strengthening weapons attacks (Light and heavy attack) and less in skills, decreasing build diversity. In Homestead you also have viable heavy attack builds for content like vMA but also have viable light attack builds. The magic sustain was too much only for high performing and well coordinated groups (especially on PC that have buff trackers...). When I look at my teammates on console they are very often close to being out of magicka in trials...

And their changes are not promoting Stamina builds back into PVE, because these changes penalizing both magic and stam builds.

MehrunesFlagon · April 2017

Get rid of siphoner, and bring back magician.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Get rid of siphoner, and bring back magician.

Do you think it was a bit much to remove a magica recovery pool and add in a debuff pool to other players ?

MehrunesFlagon · April 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Get rid of siphoner, and bring back magician.

Do you think it was a bit much to remove a magica recovery pool and add in a debuff pool to other players ?

magician was cost reduction. The passive may be a bit more acceptable for pve if it allowed for resources to be gained from light attacks for a short time.With a cooldown.Since obviously you can't reduce a the regen of a boss.

Mattock_Romulus · April 2017

So instead of putting all our points into 2 categories from each tree we will end up putting our points equally across all categories. Sure the point spread will vary between magicka and stamina users but we will still end up having the same CP load out.

DHale · April 2017

Oh sounds good until you try it then it's like wth?

Ep1kMalware · April 2017

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

This game goes through too many players as is because they have no incentive to stay. This will hurt their rep/playerbase just to turn a buck. I doubt it'll 'kill' the game but it's a big step roward accomplishing that very thing.

SickDuck · April 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I agree with the Champion Points changes. It makes perfect sense. The biggest problem is in classes.

This. Screwed everything in the game Class-wise that has already been in existence, so the only truly very GOOD Class will be the Pay-walled one. Not acceptable. 90-some-odd-percent of existing characters will become sh!t because the Warden Class hasn't BEEN around on live stealing everything good from the other classes, like Major Mending! Ugh...

Changes will happen to this situation. Positively. Or else the game WILL die a painful death, -playing- it won't be -fun- anymore. It will just boil down to a primitive, basic hack and slash because ability cost is out of control, with no meaningful amount of means to reduce that now, it will bore the Hell out of everyone, and they will drop the game like the bad habit this patch would make it if this doesn't see some serious revisions before live release.

Meet. Part. Way. Even if resources get a little more of an unpleasant nuisance to try maintain, just not near this extreme. This is just nuts. I could have reluctantly lived with the Champion System nerfs because -that- isn't all bad, but the non-Warden classes...it is too much...

This game goes through too many players as is because they have no incentive to stay. This will hurt their rep/playerbase just to turn a buck. I doubt it'll 'kill' the game but it's a big step roward accomplishing that very thing.

Exactly. Kicking progression in the dust in a game which relies on good amount of grinding is basically cutting the carrot from the stick. Why bother doing the same activities over again when they are more painful and longer to complete? Why bother getting stronger when you get cut back to match new(er) players?

Elite can lose motivation easily under these circumstances. Rookies will see increased difficulty which will cause frustration. Neither really what a game should aim for.