PvE discussion: Why do so many prefer to be Damage Dealers?

The_Art_of_Paw · April 2017

The only time I play tank is when I want to go in to the que finder on my own and that is to get the finder tool to group me right away. The only time I play healer is to help out guildmates that are struggling with their completions. The rest of the time is solo so I dps to get the dungeon to go faster.

Reasons me and others I have talked to in my journey in this game enjoy dps are : we enjoy the easier ride because less people getting angry or blaming us for things, the rotations are physically more comfortable to maintain, less aggro often leads to less snares and holds or things that generally interrupt the flow.

Reasons close friends wont join pugs unless I tank for them : they don't want the party to wipe, they don't want to be blamed if a party member dies, they fear nastiness from random people and want a friends support or a friend to distract attention when party discussion goes to an unpleasant topic

lunawisp · April 2017

When you start ESO for the first time, the very first thing you do after Lyris sets you free is pick up a sword and start killing things. There are no other options. I suspect that a lot of people just stick with what they started out with, i.e. damage dealing, especially if this happens to be their first MMO. And I can understand why, damaging mobs gets you instant results... healing and tanking is only useful in a group and for people just starting out, it can be a bit of a baptism of fire... I wonder how many people have tried tanking or healing and given up after the reception received from 'some' groups.

Dragonnord · April 2017

Because tanks and healers become USELESS in this game in all content but in veteran Trials + vCoS + vRoM + vDSA. All other content can be completed with 3 or 4 DPS.

Zyrudin · April 2017

Stormwitch2025 wrote: »

You ask people opinions and so you're going get mine...LOL!! Please be gentle I am going shoot straight from the hip.

** The current state of the MMO genre is one of instant gratification rather then, work hard and learning to be the best. It is log on and instantly be the bad arse you have always dreamed to be. This mentality has created mostly inadequate damage dealers as you put it or as we always called it ' DPS ". The holy trinity of the genre has also come under attack by the creators of the newer titles trying to blur the lines between roles under the guise of creating more diversity when in fact it is only creating less stability. I for one will not start going to normal dungeons until I am a Level 50 / 160 champion point character and veterans only once I have maxed out the gear to all legendary set( yellow ) and know my rotations and how to put out the most damage I can squeeze out for my team.

** All that being said players these days are really cruel and unkind to people that are just learning the games. They call them names that are really hurtful and kick them from groups without trying to work with them to help the person become a better player. Tanking and Healing takes practice and long long hours of messing up to learn how to correct your play-style. The only place to really learn this is in dungeons or at the least in groups for world boss runs and delve diving.

**** Players have grown accustomed to the intolerance and ignorance of the community of new players in the genre and join the dungeons regardless of their ability knowing that even being the best at their role will not insure they will not be the victim of the immature ass hats that seem to dominate the genre these days.

By all means, state your opinion. With that introductory statement I was expecting "worse"

However, note that it is a huge exaggeration to wait for level 50 and full legendary gear for Normal dungeons. In fact, Normal difficulty is there exactly for pre-Vet characters, although it can and is also played by Vets.

faerigirl · April 2017

ragingphoinix wrote: »

It's my preferred play style. I also play ranged exclusively because I like being able to see the fight. If I wanted to be 'the hero', I'd tank. I have no interest in healing.

This exactly for me too.

I tend to get 'lost' in fights. I watch and wait for the moment to interrupt and I do my best to avoid incoming damage. I can't do that as a tank because I have to be too close and healing takes watching everyone else.

I would follow a good tank into the burning fires of hell and a will ALWAYS know where my healer is so I can head towards them in dire circumstances. (For the love of...DON'T run away from the healer!)

Seri · April 2017

Dragonking06 wrote: »

This, lol. I sometimes do PUG dungeons (to put myself to the test, albeit sometimes leading to my frustration) and over the last couple of days I've had people wanting to add me to their friends list, asking if they can do pledges with me in future.

Can agree completely. I've found a few great DPS through group finder or zone pug and have been asked to friends-list. Once a few do this there's no need for heal or tanks to deal with PUGs any more, thus exacerbating the wait time issue.

Yubarius wrote: »

I like to heal and tank more than DD because with a DD, it's just running the same rotation over and over and over, ok step out of red, and over and over, etc.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that puts you better than at least half the group-finder DD role.

Regarding people talking about getting big numbers on their parses, IMO the good DPS getting those numbers are also the ones that are aware of the role of the tank and healer for helping them get those numbers with buffs/positioning too.

malicia · April 2017

I've loved playing DW from about the time of Neverwinter Nights, IIRC. Since then I've simply played DW whenever I can, including now in ESO. I can switch gear to tank most (if not all) nDungeons (haven't really tried vet), and most World Bosses, so I often do that. But my favourite remains DD - I simply enjoy it more.

As for glory - that goes to whoever performs. I'm a mediocre player at best, so I can't claim any for myself. Last night in an nSO run, my health was stuck at about 65% from someplace before the last boss, up to the end. Somehow the healers kept me alive despite me having only about 10k health. They were the heroes there, and I acknowledged them as such.

I think I'd make a better tank than a DD - the pace is normally a bit slower, and there's less things that can kill you. But with a Stamblade there's just something really fun about standing under the boss' feet, jabbing jabbing jabbing. Any mistake can kill me, and I have to focus 100% of the time in order to survive.

Tanking feels more forgiving. DD feels like being on the cutting edge the whole time. I know that tanking might be harder (I'm not close to brave enough to tank HRC's Warrior!), but the above is just how I perceive it.

Rickter · April 2017

in my experience, everyone and their mama's second sister are a tank .. . . . until you actually need one

Zyrudin · April 2017

malicia wrote: »

I've loved playing DW from about the time of Neverwinter Nights, IIRC. Since then I've simply played DW whenever I can, including now in ESO. I can switch gear to tank most (if not all) nDungeons (haven't really tried vet), and most World Bosses, so I often do that. But my favourite remains DD - I simply enjoy it more.

As for glory - that goes to whoever performs. I'm a mediocre player at best, so I can't claim any for myself. Last night in an nSO run, my health was stuck at about 65% from someplace before the last boss, up to the end. Somehow the healers kept me alive despite me having only about 10k health. They were the heroes there, and I acknowledged them as such.

I think I'd make a better tank than a DD - the pace is normally a bit slower, and there's less things that can kill you. But with a Stamblade there's just something really fun about standing under the boss' feet, jabbing jabbing jabbing. Any mistake can kill me, and I have to focus 100% of the time in order to survive.

Tanking feels more forgiving. DD feels like being on the cutting edge the whole time. I know that tanking might be harder (I'm not close to brave enough to tank HRC's Warrior!), but the above is just how I perceive it.

Thanks for the insight. Note though, that, unless I'm mistaken, your health was probably alright and what happened was a frequent visual bug in trials (and PvP apparently?) where it does look like you are hurt and stopped health regen. The numbers even show wrong, but you actually do, as far as I am aware of, have your full HP.

Does someone else have more details on this bug?

AcadianPaladin · April 2017

@faerigirl As I healer, my elf would also follow a good tank into the burning fires of hell.

Not long ago, she and a tank she did not know cleared a wb. He aggro'd the boss, turned it away from my elf, kept the boss in one spot and withstood the full wrath of the boss. As a result, my healer could keep the tank under shards, two HoTs and the boss under both purify and eledrain the entire fight. She even could get close enough to work sweeps into her rotation. The fight took awhile but neither of us ever went below 95% health. Simply the most elegant wb takedown she has had the priviledge to help with. Yeah, she adores tanks and they will always be her primary focus during a fight.

Prof_Bawbag · April 2017

Maybe it's because historically in gaming both healing and tanking are less fun and most people just prefer doing something more proactive with their character. See it in almost every other game. Regardless of whether people on here disapprove or not, most people prefer to be the one doing the exciting stuff rather than the mundane stuff.

I know i find tanking boring and it's awful levelling one, so I never touch my DK tank. I simply find it dull and I don't play games to do things I consider dull. Healing, well, as with tanking, I can also see why most people would find that less than exciting too. I don't mind healing, though.

Some people on here don't like to admit it, but those of us who post on here regularly will tend to go that extra mile and do more of the niche elements of the game, but people who frequent specific gaming forums only make up a small non representative number of the player base within any given game. I mean, take Mass Effect for example, if the forums were to be believed, most people played through insanity and rolled more niche builds and harder to master builds, yet when BioWare released percentages, over 90% of the player base rolled a male face rolling soldier.

danno8 · April 2017

Because tanking and healing is harder than DD.

Because it is harder to see if you are a terrible DD than a terrible tank or healer. People criticize tanks and healers (fairly or otherwise).

Because for levelling up, DD is faster and more fun, and who wants to have to run 2 different specs?

Age old MMO problems that lead to "Looking for tank and healer! Have 10 dps already!" and long queues.

Sabbathius · April 2017

The answer is very simple, and tons of people in this thread missed it completely.

The game has a lot of content, most of it in fact, that HAS to be done as DD. You can't heal vMA to death. Yeah, you can do it as tank or heals, but how's your score? Want to kill world bosses? Sure you can do them (many of them anyway, some you can't because they self-heal and your DPS is ***) as tank or heals. But they're meant to be done as DPS. Want to solo a vet dungeon? It'll take you considerably longer as healer/tank. Want to farm some gold off of Imperial mobs, while wearing Prosperous set? If you do it as tank/heals, you'll be stupidly inefficient. And so on, and so forth.

What I'm getting at is, the game is centered around KILLING. Tanking and healing are just the means to an end. DD does the actual work. It is also more applicable to all facets of the game. For example, if you want to run a really, really fast dungeon normal mode? You don't need a tank or heals at all, a full team of self-sustaining DD builds will do it far faster. Even leveling and CP farming, try to do it as a tank, and you'll be pulling your hair out.

In short, it's got nothing to do with fun, or what people prefer. It's a factor, yes. But ultimately it's just the way they designed the game. As long as only killing matters for 95% of the game's content, there will be more DD.

Prof_Bawbag · April 2017

Sabbathius wrote: »

The answer is very simple, and tons of people in this thread missed it completely.

The game has a lot of content, most of it in fact, that HAS to be done as DD. You can't heal vMA to death. Yeah, you can do it as tank or heals, but how's your score? Want to kill world bosses? Sure you can do them (many of them anyway, some you can't because they self-heal and your DPS is ***) as tank or heals. But they're meant to be done as DPS. Want to solo a vet dungeon? It'll take you considerably longer as healer/tank. Want to farm some gold off of Imperial mobs, while wearing Prosperous set? If you do it as tank/heals, you'll be stupidly inefficient. And so on, and so forth.

What I'm getting at is, the game is centered around KILLING. Tanking and healing are just the means to an end. DD does the actual work. It is also more applicable to all facets of the game. For example, if you want to run a really, really fast dungeon normal mode? You don't need a tank or heals at all, a full team of self-sustaining DD builds will do it far faster. Even leveling and CP farming, try to do it as a tank, and you'll be pulling your hair out.

In short, it's got nothing to do with fun, or what people prefer. It's a factor, yes. But ultimately it's just the way they designed the game. As long as only killing matters for 95% of the game's content, there will be more DD.

What a load of codswallop. It's either "nothing to do with fun" or is a factor. Can't be both. It's designed like almost every other combat game out there; Press button(s) until npc is dead. To many, tanking isn't fun and healing isn't fun, so yeah, it's a factor and can have everything to do with it. Why? Because I, myself find tanking unfun so don't do it. I'm not unique.

faerigirl · April 2017

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@faerigirl As I healer, my elf would also follow a good tank into the burning fires of hell.

Not long ago, she and a tank she did not know cleared a wb. He aggro'd the boss, turned it away from my elf, kept the boss in one spot and withstood the full wrath of the boss. As a result, my healer could keep the tank under shards, two HoTs and the boss under both purify and eledrain the entire fight. She even could get close enough to work sweeps into her rotation. The fight took awhile but neither of us ever went below 95% health. Simply the most elegant wb takedown she has had the priviledge to help with. Yeah, she adores tanks and they will always be her primary focus during a fight.

Beautiful!

I love moments like that, it's like watching a dance, when done correctly, it's beautiful!

Violynne · April 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

So why so few Tanks and Healers?

I can't speak for anyone else, but my answer: because I don't know how to play them.

I wouldn't mind learning how to play a healer, but after reading the fiasco of the patch notes and the Templar nerfs, I'm more hesitant to roll one than ever before.

I also find it extremely problematic most healers are Templars.

The game seems to take great pride to ensure everyone is locked into a specific role, and limits skills accordingly.

I honestly don't know if I want to take chance to roll a healer and then find myself struggling in PvE content, which reduces my ability to level up.

AcadianPaladin · April 2017

I can't speak for tanks but my magpie healer kills just fine. Yes, she takes longer but the same healing that can keep others alive works on her quite well. I admit that there is much safety in killing very fast. There is also much safety in killing slower but with a potent multilayered self-healing ability while being well buffed and keeping your foes debuffed.

All I'm saying is that my healer was a healer by level 5 and has never had any problem leveling up as such.

JKorr · April 2017

If you are doing solo pve, who tanks for you? Who follows you to heal you? Who helps kill enemies?

No one. [npc quest-related companions really don't count]

If I'm playing pve, I'd better be able to do enough damage to kill whatever I'm fighting before it kills me. I have no one else to depend on. My skills are slanted towards that end.

Different mindset if you're going to be in a group where others will help you. You can do other things than simply kill the enemy as quickly as possible.

Seri · April 2017

Violynne wrote: »

I also find it extremely problematic most healers are Templars.

Well we do have the heal skill line with a few passives on it. The BoL burst heal potential is nice although no healer would (or rather, should) use it as the primary heal. I did do a test vCOS the other night with no BoL slotted though and we did fairly well but our group was fairly high DPS and was disciplined enough to not run too far from me.

onemoredragon · April 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Because tanks and healers become USELESS in this game in all content but in veteran Trials + vCoS + vRoM + vDSA. All other content can be completed with 3 or 4 DPS.

I would agree 100% with that statement if you'd add something like ''if these players are good as DPS and know what they are doing''. For most people who use group finder, /zone, or have friends and guildies who ain't too good with that role and actually need help completing some PvE stuff, tanks and heals are needed.

Having a DD player who pulls out good DPS, knows the mechanics and can stand a hit or two in case of a mistake and not die - you don't see such players often in the situations I mentioned above. Maybe it's just my luck, but I managed to do 3 DD runs with only reliable players. Not saying that good DDs don't exist in the PUG, no, but it's purely based on luck, so the uselessness of support roles in all content except for hardest one - no, not true.

Once I managed to take out Hew's bane world boss with 3 or 4 non-CP players (maybe there was one CP player though joining in later, I'm not sure). Seeing these guys dying while being chased by the boss, I switched to the dungeon tank setup. We also had a lowbie healer who was helping out too. And guess what, the fight took more than 5 minutes and was quite intense in terms of survival, but it was truly fun. Especially for a support-oriented player, who managed to find a challenge for herself in the middle of random nowhere outside of high-end content

Now to the OP, as many mentioned I think it depends on player's mindset - some like to win and I'd say instantly, thus they choose damage dealer role. Because each kill would give you an instant feeling of satisfaction and it would certainly multiply by the end of an instance, when a player killed so many mobs and so fast and took out the boss. For others, supporting the group and having their satisfaction postponed to the end of the encounter would feel best - that's your tanks and healers. I'd say fights in this game are somewhat more slow-paced for a tank than for DDs, not sure about healers (sometimes you have to heal like a mad dog if something goes wrong.. )

jircris11 · April 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Now, I know that several group content mechanics can be bypassed with high enough DPS and that other mechanics include a DPS check. However, Damage Dealers rely more heavily on proper Tanking than most of them would like to admit, to lead the enemies into their AoE's, to turn them away from their position to save them dodge time, etc. They also rely on competent Healers to keep them buffed and with enough HOT's for them to focus on one task. So why so few Tanks and Healers?

My assertion about the numbers comes from Vet Group Finder queues, where with a Tank or a Healer I immediately pick up a group, while it takes ages with a DD.

My opinion is that "everyone" wants to be the hero that slays the "dragon", to be in the spotlight - probably a reflection of the times - and so it may be in fashion to build for DPS (even if not competently) instead of opting for one of the support roles of Tank or Healer.

I would like to hear other opinions on the matter.

people enjoy big numbers in terms of dmg, personally i enjoy tanking or healing over dps.

Kodrac · April 2017

I play DPS for the solo part of the game, but I always make sure to level other skills along the way so that I can tank or heal later on in groups. I hate DPSing in dungeons. Tanks and healers are reactionary whereas DPS is married to a rotation and that just doesn't suit me.

Fischblut · April 2017

I leveled tank and healer only to be able to play dungeons. All roles seemed fun to me, but tanking was the easiest and the role I enjoyed the most :'(

"everyone" wants to be the hero that slays the "dragon", to be in the spotlight

- One of first dungeons I tanked, and my first monster head ever was from Bogdan; while other group members rushed to use their keys, I took time to pose with my fresh trophy, removing disguise (I don't like how Ebony style looks) and looking like I imagine a classic hero, warrior in heavy armor who defeated the dragon

For questing, both my tank and healer had separate sets of gear; I didn't respec champion points when I changed gear for questing, and I had to use much more skill points to have all abilities and passives unlocked permanently. Not fun, and if I didn't like those two roles, I would just abandon those characters

p.s

tanking in pvp with pure pve gear, something that I'll never forget too

nickl413 · April 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Now, I know that several group content mechanics can be bypassed with high enough DPS and that other mechanics include a DPS check. However, Damage Dealers rely more heavily on proper Tanking than most of them would like to admit, to lead the enemies into their AoE's, to turn them away from their position to save them dodge time, etc. They also rely on competent Healers to keep them buffed and with enough HOT's for them to focus on one task. So why so few Tanks and Healers?

My assertion about the numbers comes from Vet Group Finder queues, where with a Tank or a Healer I immediately pick up a group, while it takes ages with a DD.

My opinion is that "everyone" wants to be the hero that slays the "dragon", to be in the spotlight - probably a reflection of the times - and so it may be in fashion to build for DPS (even if not competently) instead of opting for one of the support roles of Tank or Healer.

I would like to hear other opinions on the matter.

I love tanking. I feel like more of a hero when I tank than when I dps because they are hard to find and often they are the ones controlling fights. But when i use group finder, too often do I get a group of low dps scubs who cant even complete the dungeon. So now I only que as dps because I know that while my dps isn't stellar, I have enough to carry the other dps and complete the dungeon as long as healer and tank are doing their jobs to some degree.

Linaleah · April 2017

in group content I actualy prefer to heal. unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on how you look at it) 90% of my gametime is spent on soloing. and it really really sucks to solo as a healer. things take forever to die. so I end up going dps. and in this game, switching between roles depending on content is NOT effortless. healing skills actualy need to be leveled, you don't just spec into them and bam, good to go, like in other MMO's. so.. this is the second MMO where I ended up playing primarily dps, first being guild wars 2, but that game didn't have a trinity back when I played it, s pretty much everyone is some version of dps with some healing thrown in.

basically.. in this game switching between roles sucks/takes ages to set up. soloing is most pleasant as dps. ergo - most people go dps.

Jitterbug · April 2017

I've always been healer in mmos, sometimes tank.
In this game I find those roles boring compared to DPS. Seems more challenging and fun to me. Maybe I've matured into the role :-P

Linaleah · April 2017

Jitterbug wrote: »

I've always been healer in mmos, sometimes tank.
In this game I find those roles boring compared to DPS. Seems more challenging and fun to me. Maybe I've matured into the role :-P

too much smart healing, not enough actual triage. at least for me. I'm used to picking and choosing whom I heal, but in this game other then ground placed heals - you don't really get to decide so much.

DMuehlhausen · April 2017

Because they don't want to put up with the Rude elitist a**holes if they are Healer or tank.

Have you ever seen messages healers get when a DD dies after standing in big stupid red circle on the ground? I purprosely don't do BoL when I see them doing this. I don't care if it wipes the group. Don't stand in stupid.

The backlash tanks get can be even worse if DD don't feel like they are moving fast enough, or if they aren't keeping aggro enough. Even when most of the time DD will just run and start blasting stuff which in this game with no AoE taunts makes it really hard on the tank.

TheImperfect · April 2017

I've never done tanking or healing and that's because I tend to like playing thief type characters the most in Rpg's and they are generally damage dealer type characters. I would like to try tanking or healing in future but for me it's a roleplay thing.

Beardimus · April 2017

I would say as its the most natural choice.

If you are new to MMO. And don't yet have a crew for dungeons, and this understand the role healers, tanks etc play its pretty unlikely you would just pick one.

In early PvE who would you heal, or tank for that matter.

Yes if you know MMO, understand the roles, have some mates etc maybe you would the others.

I solely rolled healers to get into dungeons AFTER I topped out on my main