Only one execute starts at 50%, it's very weak in that range and a templar that starts close range beaming at 50% is a dead templar unless they can stand safely behind a zerg.
I for one would like to see more monster sets like TK.
TK is one of the only monster sets that's not RNG-based and that actually requires you to do something (monitoring and healing).
Only active gameplay makes it efficient, so I'd say that if it does "carry" players, these players at least know what they're doing to some extent, and deserve the buff.
Should the nerf hammer hit TK, I'm hoping for a weak thud rather than than a loud stomp.
uh learn to burst? if troll king is that big a problem its time to man up, stop running 12 julianos, and get an actual build
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »So, is it considered "bad form" to use this set in a duel? The build I'm working on will use either Troll King (which I already have) or Malubeth's/Selene (which I'm still farming for).
Am I creating more cancer?
D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »All of that complaining and not one word about pirate skeleton being dropped down by 1%? Now that stam has a 30% increase in cost for our heals ill most likely be moving to troll king to muster up any survivability i still can.
Waffennacht wrote: »You act like I have to repeat the same thing over and over about why
1 it's being changed and you have absolutely zero experience with the new changes, meaning any reasoning you have to justify a nerf is moot
2 calling for nerfs motivates other ill informed players to whine until poor decisions are made by ZoS
3 the thread keeps popping up, making it extremely difficult to ignore
4 offensive proc sets are just as strong or stronger
5 these sets will always exist in PvP and asking for their removal is delusional
Did I miss anything else to make my post meet your requirements OP?
Waffennacht wrote: »You act like I have to repeat the same thing over and over about why
1 it's being changed and you have absolutely zero experience with the new changes, meaning any reasoning you have to justify a nerf is moot
2 calling for nerfs motivates other ill informed players to whine until poor decisions are made by ZoS
3 the thread keeps popping up, making it extremely difficult to ignore
4 offensive proc sets are just as strong or stronger
5 these sets will always exist in PvP and asking for their removal is delusional
Did I miss anything else to make my post meet your requirements OP?
A'right, let me tell you why you have to repeat yourself: 'cause non of your points make sense. You're repeating nonsense over and over again, that's why I'm begging for you to say things again in a way that actually makes sense. Lets go:
1. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has. In fact, it should only change the tide of the battle if synced up with other tactics or moves so no more reliance can be made with troll king (applies to other procs sets). Did I make myself clear now?
2. Calling nerfs on the forum posts gives my point of view (kinda sad I have to point this out), which brings different opinions and arguments about the topic, as you can (hopefully) see, there's arguments that are pro-nerfs and against nerfs, BOTH of which are under this thread. The 'ill informed players' will read both sides of the arguments and make up a conclusion, that's why this is a DISUCSSION thread. Both sides are being exposed here, so both arguments will be presented to the player so he can decide. (This was little obvious, idk). So I'm not motivating players to be pro-nerf, I'm promoting a space where all opinions can be shown so players can make a conclusion based on the arguments presented.
3. If the thread keeps popping up, it's really likely it's a topic that a good amount of players agree on, which by itself means it's something ZoS has to look upon (not necessarly change anything, but look upon the topic. Not only that, there's SEVERAL other threads, so if you can't ignore the ones you're not passionate about, that's you're problem which makes no sense you bringing it up on a discussion forum where you're indignation about the topic is irrelevant.
4. As said before, (look who's repeating themselves now) I made a topic about THIS specific proc set, but I stated it 1001 times how I agree all other proc sets should have the same overall behavoir, be it offensive or defensive proc sets. As I stated before, I'd agree on the complete removal of proc sets, but I am sure that's impossible, so I'm offering different solutions, which will hopefully cause some debate. I DO NOT DEFEND ANY PROC SETS (as said 1001 times). I wrote about Trollking 'cause it was the one I was thinking about when this thread was made.
5. I stated before that I knew that zenimax was not gonna remove proc sets, that wasn't a proposal at all, it was just a point made so people could know my overall view on proc sets and hopefully spare me from having to point out obvious points (like I'm having to do here).
Good players will adapt to the necessity of skill, which makes me think good players aren't gonna cry a lot against the nerfs, as even if trollking is not OP, it's still a no skill set, which good players don't need or don't rely on. You can make your conclusions based on this...
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »You act like I have to repeat the same thing over and over about why
1 it's being changed and you have absolutely zero experience with the new changes, meaning any reasoning you have to justify a nerf is moot
2 calling for nerfs motivates other ill informed players to whine until poor decisions are made by ZoS
3 the thread keeps popping up, making it extremely difficult to ignore
4 offensive proc sets are just as strong or stronger
5 these sets will always exist in PvP and asking for their removal is delusional
Did I miss anything else to make my post meet your requirements OP?
A'right, let me tell you why you have to repeat yourself: 'cause non of your points make sense. You're repeating nonsense over and over again, that's why I'm begging for you to say things again in a way that actually makes sense. Lets go:
1. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has. In fact, it should only change the tide of the battle if synced up with other tactics or moves so no more reliance can be made with troll king (applies to other procs sets). Did I make myself clear now?
2. Calling nerfs on the forum posts gives my point of view (kinda sad I have to point this out), which brings different opinions and arguments about the topic, as you can (hopefully) see, there's arguments that are pro-nerfs and against nerfs, BOTH of which are under this thread. The 'ill informed players' will read both sides of the arguments and make up a conclusion, that's why this is a DISUCSSION thread. Both sides are being exposed here, so both arguments will be presented to the player so he can decide. (This was little obvious, idk). So I'm not motivating players to be pro-nerf, I'm promoting a space where all opinions can be shown so players can make a conclusion based on the arguments presented.
3. If the thread keeps popping up, it's really likely it's a topic that a good amount of players agree on, which by itself means it's something ZoS has to look upon (not necessarly change anything, but look upon the topic. Not only that, there's SEVERAL other threads, so if you can't ignore the ones you're not passionate about, that's you're problem which makes no sense you bringing it up on a discussion forum where you're indignation about the topic is irrelevant.
4. As said before, (look who's repeating themselves now) I made a topic about THIS specific proc set, but I stated it 1001 times how I agree all other proc sets should have the same overall behavoir, be it offensive or defensive proc sets. As I stated before, I'd agree on the complete removal of proc sets, but I am sure that's impossible, so I'm offering different solutions, which will hopefully cause some debate. I DO NOT DEFEND ANY PROC SETS (as said 1001 times). I wrote about Trollking 'cause it was the one I was thinking about when this thread was made.
5. I stated before that I knew that zenimax was not gonna remove proc sets, that wasn't a proposal at all, it was just a point made so people could know my overall view on proc sets and hopefully spare me from having to point out obvious points (like I'm having to do here).
Good players will adapt to the necessity of skill, which makes me think good players aren't gonna cry a lot against the nerfs, as even if trollking is not OP, it's still a no skill set, which good players don't need or don't rely on. You can make your conclusions based on this...
I'll make it simple.
If you nerf proc sets to the level you state, then there is no point in using them. ZoS will not make proc sets so weak that they do not influence battle. Their whole existence is TO TURN THE TIDE. Viper, SKORIA, red mountain, kraggs All are far more offensive than troll King is defensive.
ZoS will not nerf skoria or red mountain viper twice fang etc to the point where they make no difference.
They WILL NOT force players to change out of monster sets for PvP and then back again for PvE
You cannot nerf TK without nerfing everything and they will not separate PvP from PvE therefore they won't nerf everything because of PvE.
What you are asking for is to nerf TK because players feel defensive sets are stronger because they don't aid in making a faster ttk for their build, but whine because it makes a longer ttk
And they will never nerf all sets, so calling for nerfs results in only one set getting nerfed and the next best set gets whined about.
Edit: darn auto correct and new phone
Edit: I should put it this way, ZoS will not nerf proc sets to increase the required skill level a player needs to win. If anything they already stated they wish to bring the top down.
. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has.
Only one execute starts at 50%, it's very weak in that range and a templar that starts close range beaming at 50% is a dead templar unless they can stand safely behind a zerg.
True that, Brookus... it's a fair point to assume that 50% isn't even execute range... so we could say that trollking heals you before you're even in true trouble, before you're out of that safe zone.
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »You act like I have to repeat the same thing over and over about why
1 it's being changed and you have absolutely zero experience with the new changes, meaning any reasoning you have to justify a nerf is moot
2 calling for nerfs motivates other ill informed players to whine until poor decisions are made by ZoS
3 the thread keeps popping up, making it extremely difficult to ignore
4 offensive proc sets are just as strong or stronger
5 these sets will always exist in PvP and asking for their removal is delusional
Did I miss anything else to make my post meet your requirements OP?
A'right, let me tell you why you have to repeat yourself: 'cause non of your points make sense. You're repeating nonsense over and over again, that's why I'm begging for you to say things again in a way that actually makes sense. Lets go:
1. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has. In fact, it should only change the tide of the battle if synced up with other tactics or moves so no more reliance can be made with troll king (applies to other procs sets). Did I make myself clear now?
2. Calling nerfs on the forum posts gives my point of view (kinda sad I have to point this out), which brings different opinions and arguments about the topic, as you can (hopefully) see, there's arguments that are pro-nerfs and against nerfs, BOTH of which are under this thread. The 'ill informed players' will read both sides of the arguments and make up a conclusion, that's why this is a DISUCSSION thread. Both sides are being exposed here, so both arguments will be presented to the player so he can decide. (This was little obvious, idk). So I'm not motivating players to be pro-nerf, I'm promoting a space where all opinions can be shown so players can make a conclusion based on the arguments presented.
3. If the thread keeps popping up, it's really likely it's a topic that a good amount of players agree on, which by itself means it's something ZoS has to look upon (not necessarly change anything, but look upon the topic. Not only that, there's SEVERAL other threads, so if you can't ignore the ones you're not passionate about, that's you're problem which makes no sense you bringing it up on a discussion forum where you're indignation about the topic is irrelevant.
4. As said before, (look who's repeating themselves now) I made a topic about THIS specific proc set, but I stated it 1001 times how I agree all other proc sets should have the same overall behavoir, be it offensive or defensive proc sets. As I stated before, I'd agree on the complete removal of proc sets, but I am sure that's impossible, so I'm offering different solutions, which will hopefully cause some debate. I DO NOT DEFEND ANY PROC SETS (as said 1001 times). I wrote about Trollking 'cause it was the one I was thinking about when this thread was made.
5. I stated before that I knew that zenimax was not gonna remove proc sets, that wasn't a proposal at all, it was just a point made so people could know my overall view on proc sets and hopefully spare me from having to point out obvious points (like I'm having to do here).
Good players will adapt to the necessity of skill, which makes me think good players aren't gonna cry a lot against the nerfs, as even if trollking is not OP, it's still a no skill set, which good players don't need or don't rely on. You can make your conclusions based on this...
I'll make it simple.
If you nerf proc sets to the level you state, then there is no point in using them. ZoS will not make proc sets so weak that they do not influence battle. Their whole existence is TO TURN THE TIDE. Viper, SKORIA, red mountain, kraggs All are far more offensive than troll King is defensive.
ZoS will not nerf skoria or red mountain viper twice fang etc to the point where they make no difference.
They WILL NOT force players to change out of monster sets for PvP and then back again for PvE
You cannot nerf TK without nerfing everything and they will not separate PvP from PvE therefore they won't nerf everything because of PvE.
What you are asking for is to nerf TK because players feel defensive sets are stronger because they don't aid in making a faster ttk for their build, but whine because it makes a longer ttk
And they will never nerf all sets, so calling for nerfs results in only one set getting nerfed and the next best set gets whined about.
Edit: darn auto correct and new phone
Edit: I should put it this way, ZoS will not nerf proc sets to increase the required skill level a player needs to win. If anything they already stated they wish to bring the top down.
There we go! Now I understand where you're trying to get! I totally see your point now. Keep in mind though, I did state:. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has.
Basically what I mean with this is that Troll King should not turn the tide of the battle by itself, but it should AID the player (to a certain extent) to tide the turn of the battle, making troll king have to be used more strategically. A good example here is Kena's monster helm, even though you deal a lot of damage, you burn resources a lot more. That calls for a strategic use of it, you have to think before you simply spam skills while kena is procced. I suggest TK (and any other monster set) should envolve a thought process behind it before using it, that's my whole point here. I'll give a example (it's probably bad 'cause I haven't thought much about it, but lets give it a shot).
What about if Troll king gave you all that health recovery, but reduced you're resistances by 'x%' while it was procced. You'd have to think 'Oh, Trollking just procced, which means I will be able to recover from a burst, but I'll have to avoid damage somehow due to my low resistances. What if I have to line of sight, or get a rally ready to pop as soon as TK ends so I can recover from the following damage I received while my resistances were down, or I have to make sure I have a potion ready so I can heal from the extra damage I received with troll king 'cause my resistances are low, or maybe I should spec into more resistances, run a source of major resolve, who knows?'
Maybe I made it easier to understand... TK then would function to recover from big bursts, but won't let you do it again, you have to have a plan B so you can play against TKs drawbacks...
That's just an example I had while thinking about TK, but it can generalize to other proc sets!
Tell me what you think!
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »You act like I have to repeat the same thing over and over about why
1 it's being changed and you have absolutely zero experience with the new changes, meaning any reasoning you have to justify a nerf is moot
2 calling for nerfs motivates other ill informed players to whine until poor decisions are made by ZoS
3 the thread keeps popping up, making it extremely difficult to ignore
4 offensive proc sets are just as strong or stronger
5 these sets will always exist in PvP and asking for their removal is delusional
Did I miss anything else to make my post meet your requirements OP?
A'right, let me tell you why you have to repeat yourself: 'cause non of your points make sense. You're repeating nonsense over and over again, that's why I'm begging for you to say things again in a way that actually makes sense. Lets go:
1. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has. In fact, it should only change the tide of the battle if synced up with other tactics or moves so no more reliance can be made with troll king (applies to other procs sets). Did I make myself clear now?
2. Calling nerfs on the forum posts gives my point of view (kinda sad I have to point this out), which brings different opinions and arguments about the topic, as you can (hopefully) see, there's arguments that are pro-nerfs and against nerfs, BOTH of which are under this thread. The 'ill informed players' will read both sides of the arguments and make up a conclusion, that's why this is a DISUCSSION thread. Both sides are being exposed here, so both arguments will be presented to the player so he can decide. (This was little obvious, idk). So I'm not motivating players to be pro-nerf, I'm promoting a space where all opinions can be shown so players can make a conclusion based on the arguments presented.
3. If the thread keeps popping up, it's really likely it's a topic that a good amount of players agree on, which by itself means it's something ZoS has to look upon (not necessarly change anything, but look upon the topic. Not only that, there's SEVERAL other threads, so if you can't ignore the ones you're not passionate about, that's you're problem which makes no sense you bringing it up on a discussion forum where you're indignation about the topic is irrelevant.
4. As said before, (look who's repeating themselves now) I made a topic about THIS specific proc set, but I stated it 1001 times how I agree all other proc sets should have the same overall behavoir, be it offensive or defensive proc sets. As I stated before, I'd agree on the complete removal of proc sets, but I am sure that's impossible, so I'm offering different solutions, which will hopefully cause some debate. I DO NOT DEFEND ANY PROC SETS (as said 1001 times). I wrote about Trollking 'cause it was the one I was thinking about when this thread was made.
5. I stated before that I knew that zenimax was not gonna remove proc sets, that wasn't a proposal at all, it was just a point made so people could know my overall view on proc sets and hopefully spare me from having to point out obvious points (like I'm having to do here).
Good players will adapt to the necessity of skill, which makes me think good players aren't gonna cry a lot against the nerfs, as even if trollking is not OP, it's still a no skill set, which good players don't need or don't rely on. You can make your conclusions based on this...
I'll make it simple.
If you nerf proc sets to the level you state, then there is no point in using them. ZoS will not make proc sets so weak that they do not influence battle. Their whole existence is TO TURN THE TIDE. Viper, SKORIA, red mountain, kraggs All are far more offensive than troll King is defensive.
ZoS will not nerf skoria or red mountain viper twice fang etc to the point where they make no difference.
They WILL NOT force players to change out of monster sets for PvP and then back again for PvE
You cannot nerf TK without nerfing everything and they will not separate PvP from PvE therefore they won't nerf everything because of PvE.
What you are asking for is to nerf TK because players feel defensive sets are stronger because they don't aid in making a faster ttk for their build, but whine because it makes a longer ttk
And they will never nerf all sets, so calling for nerfs results in only one set getting nerfed and the next best set gets whined about.
Edit: darn auto correct and new phone
Edit: I should put it this way, ZoS will not nerf proc sets to increase the required skill level a player needs to win. If anything they already stated they wish to bring the top down.
There we go! Now I understand where you're trying to get! I totally see your point now. Keep in mind though, I did state:. Changing troll king or not will not (and probably never will) walk in parallel directions to my point: which is making troll king (and any other proc sets) require any sort of skill to use and/or give minimal advantage to the player using it. In other words, make it somehow require some skill to use OR bring it down to the point that it's no longer able to turn the tide of a battle solemnly because of the effects it has.
Basically what I mean with this is that Troll King should not turn the tide of the battle by itself, but it should AID the player (to a certain extent) to tide the turn of the battle, making troll king have to be used more strategically. A good example here is Kena's monster helm, even though you deal a lot of damage, you burn resources a lot more. That calls for a strategic use of it, you have to think before you simply spam skills while kena is procced. I suggest TK (and any other monster set) should envolve a thought process behind it before using it, that's my whole point here. I'll give a example (it's probably bad 'cause I haven't thought much about it, but lets give it a shot).
What about if Troll king gave you all that health recovery, but reduced you're resistances by 'x%' while it was procced. You'd have to think 'Oh, Trollking just procced, which means I will be able to recover from a burst, but I'll have to avoid damage somehow due to my low resistances. What if I have to line of sight, or get a rally ready to pop as soon as TK ends so I can recover from the following damage I received while my resistances were down, or I have to make sure I have a potion ready so I can heal from the extra damage I received with troll king 'cause my resistances are low, or maybe I should spec into more resistances, run a source of major resolve, who knows?'
Maybe I made it easier to understand... TK then would function to recover from big bursts, but won't let you do it again, you have to have a plan B so you can play against TKs drawbacks...
That's just an example I had while thinking about TK, but it can generalize to other proc sets!
Tell me what you think!
What you are asking for is perfectly reasonable. It just doesn't fall in line with ZoS thinking. You're right, these types of changes would force a player to be more proactive and skillful to utilize. However these do not help new or less skilled players. ZoS wants a less skilled player have the opportunity to beat a more skilled player, this is what they mean by "bringing the top down"
Personally I think the changes they have done are the extent to what type of changes ZoS does. Like no critical, sure it changed proc sets, but not by much
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »So, is it considered "bad form" to use this set in a duel? The build I'm working on will use either Troll King (which I already have) or Malubeth's/Selene (which I'm still farming for).
Am I creating more cancer?
cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »Troll King is ridiculous, because there is no counter to health regen. And let's face it, a smart build (not a smart player, just a copied smart build) using TK will end up over 3k regen when it procs. And self healing is guaranteed for most classes (surge, funnel, rally, ritual, the CP ability that heals you when you get crit), so let's not pretend that remembering to self heal is hard
If we had a counter to health regen, then TK would be ok. As it stands now, it heavily carries tanky builds in BGs and no-CP, just like it did for me last night on my first spin as a Warden. I didn't even run Rally, just Warden heals and Vigor
An option for nerfing it could be to halve the proc duration too.
Troll king from 60% to 25% would be fine or it can stay to 50% but they proc chance is 50% when you cast an heal.
Pirate skeleton from 30% less dmg to about 15% less dmg would be fine as well with 5% proc chance.
IrishRoyalty1124 wrote: »Troll king from 60% to 25% would be fine or it can stay to 50% but they proc chance is 50% when you cast an heal.
Pirate skeleton from 30% less dmg to about 15% less dmg would be fine as well with 5% proc chance.
You do need to cast a heal to proc it once below 50% health so to say it requires no skill is just not true. The two piece of troll king is, "When you heal a friendly target if they are still below 50% health their health recovery is increased by 1548 for 10 seconds" so really you need to be low enough below 50% health and cast a heal that won't push you above 50% health or it won't proc.
cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »Troll King is ridiculous, because there is no counter to health regen. And let's face it, a smart build (not a smart player, just a copied smart build) using TK will end up over 3k regen when it procs. And self healing is guaranteed for most classes (surge, funnel, rally, ritual, the CP ability that heals you when you get crit), so let's not pretend that remembering to self heal is hard
If we had a counter to health regen, then TK would be ok. As it stands now, it heavily carries tanky builds in BGs and no-CP, just like it did for me last night on my first spin as a Warden. I didn't even run Rally, just Warden heals and Vigor
An option for nerfing it could be to halve the proc duration too.
rfennell_ESO wrote: »cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »Troll King is ridiculous, because there is no counter to health regen. And let's face it, a smart build (not a smart player, just a copied smart build) using TK will end up over 3k regen when it procs. And self healing is guaranteed for most classes (surge, funnel, rally, ritual, the CP ability that heals you when you get crit), so let's not pretend that remembering to self heal is hard
If we had a counter to health regen, then TK would be ok. As it stands now, it heavily carries tanky builds in BGs and no-CP, just like it did for me last night on my first spin as a Warden. I didn't even run Rally, just Warden heals and Vigor
An option for nerfing it could be to halve the proc duration too.
Doesn't -poisoned- reduce health regen by 50%?
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Quantum is just concerned because he's really OP, and if he uses Troll King too, then people might...grow suspicious.