What are people dreading so much about morrowind patch?

Goshua · April 2017

So far? pvp wise.. No noticable change to burst, big changes to sustain
i.e Burst is still the best thing to build for, so nothing much will change at all

jedtb16_ESO · April 2017

hassubhai wrote: »

So far the main changes i see are the coming of warden and the reduced sustian, which as a pvp player im ecstatic about. I completely agree with zos that sustain is stupidly easy conpared to earlier eso. I dont really care about much else of the changes because they dont seem all bad, maybe im missing something.

What is so bad about morrowind?

nothing....

to qualify that a little....

you could categorize mmorpg players in to 2 groups, if you were so inclined.....

group one... the end gamers...

the whole point of online mmorpgs is the end game.... trials pvp whatever....the rest of the game is just something to be endured to get to that.

group two....

sorry i don't have a pithy description for this even though i am one of these, whatever they are...

play the game for the game... the journey, the exploration. now this is just me talking.... i want to stand on every spot on the map.... look into every nook and cranny...read every book, loot every container, talk to every npc... yes, even the ones that insult me or tell me they used to be an adventurer.... ah, sorry wrong game. and.... don't give monkeys about the end game.

out on a limb i will say morrowind is great... if you are in group two you will love it. if you are in group one and are prepared to adapt you will love it too.

Imryll · April 2017

I've been approaching the point where my main will have enough CP to solo normal dungeons and feel as though the carpet is being pulled out from under her. I hope I'm wrong, and she'll still be able to experience this content, but I'm concerned.

olsborg · April 2017

nvm

itscompton · April 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@subtlezeroub17_ESO absolutely, you are right. In group of few hundred thousand or even millions of people you will always find those that cry wolf.

But then again i witnessed SWG and other MMOs downfall caused by one unfortunate patch. They didn't die immediately, this true, but the fact is, this happens too.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying thats the case with Morrowind. In fact i would be surprised if it was, but it might be because there are many people, that for TES lore, or because this is their first MMO and they fell in love will tolerate much more than in other non TES MMO titles.

Making too many drastic changes in one patch that players don't really want might not kill an MMO but it can certainly do serious harm to the established community. I used to play DC Online fanatically back in the day (2012-14) and then the Devs decided to blow up the basic game mechanics and make drastic changes to gearing and damage calculations (what's really scary in regards to ESO is the biggest of those changes was moving to basing damage/resource return on level instead of stats) even though the large majority of forum posters said it would be bad for the game. The result was content being horribly unbalanced or just outright broken and thus the server population crashed. I read about a year ago their Devs had to give in and reverse everything they had changed to save the game so it's technically still alive but if you look at the steam chart for its lifetime population it only averages 1/3 to 1/2 the concurrent players it did before those Devs blew up the game.

STEVIL · April 2017

I am one of the ones not dreading morrowind patch at all.

My experience with its base gameplay in practice make me like it a lot - even allowing for the bugs and things i think they should change.

Amayna · April 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

People hate change.

Incorrect.

Morrowind is changing one of the fundemental pillars of the game, resource management. The game is practically built off continuous damage. Now that we're not going to do that, people are not only worried about the usual build editing (Which has become a chore) and their also worried about the fact we might not actually be mathematically able to do many of the mechanics, thus widening the gap between the majority of the playerbase, and the few elite, who are themselves dwindling.

Compound it by the fact at least one major streamer is leaving after being directly invited to ZOS and -asked- his opinion on where to take the direction of the game, and either being ignored or taken far too litterally, and people are panicing because none of this screams 'good update'.

Exactly, so .... the only thing left for us to do is vote with our wallets on these changes, which I intend to do by not buying Morrowind right away and waiting to see (on live) if these changes do in fact make the game less fun to play, and if they do well then I'll just unsubscribe and wait until they make changes in the right direction

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Because...

Ugh nvm too sick and tired to list down what's wrong with the lates notes.

@Sneaky-Snurr I agree. There's tons wrong with the latest patch notes. By the way, I hope you get well soon.

max_only · April 2017

Goshua wrote: »

So far? pvp wise.. No noticable change to burst, big changes to sustain
i.e Burst is still the best thing to build for, so nothing much will change at all

Ok so you haven't read the nightblade patch notes.

Iskrasfemme · April 2017

zaria wrote: »

Well hope you are not an redguard nightblade

Or DK

Zvorgin · April 2017

Sustain changes won't impact PvP as much, PvE is going to be destroyed. Solo play will be brutal Donny impossible for the average player. Overall, the top end players will find work arounds in their coordinated groups, but anyone who doesn't roll in a good group will see the bottom fall out of their sustain.

Basically, this patch will really cause the gap between good and bad players to get much larger and will also make PvE content a lot more difficult overall by people having to reduce dps to make up sustain.

ljb2k5_ESO · April 2017

ScooberSteve wrote: »

You people seriously dont get it do you. They drastically changed the game mechanics. I think i speak for everyone when i say im over grinding for gear. The effort it would take to regrind gear rebalance my build. Test how viable it is tweek it.
Whats wrong with wanting to pvp and not grind forever for gear sets. Elder foreveringrindinggearsets Online

This, I hear about how we should suck it up and adapt, but how many times you gonna build a house of cards only to have ZOS shake the table and bringing all your time, effort, and investment crashing down before you conclude ESO is a waste of time?? ZOS needs to stabilize the fundamental game before I think people will want to invest anymore, at least for those players who have already endured major shake ups like rebuilding the whole endgame and champion points.

ZOS still doesn't seem like they know fully what they are doing because they still don't know how to deal with the champ system (struggling
to keep it meaningful, while making it have increasingly less impact) and the PTS notes gut the game to the core. They are just throwing *** at the wall to see what sticks it seems, and many long time players of ESO and MMO's in general don't have the faith or the patience to want to invest any further on the hope that "it'll get better". MMO's way to often these days become less of a vehicle for fun, and more an exercise in trying to make the best of a bad situation. No thanks.

ljb2k5_ESO · April 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@subtlezeroub17_ESO absolutely, you are right. In group of few hundred thousand or even millions of people you will always find those that cry wolf.

But then again i witnessed SWG and other MMOs downfall caused by one unfortunate patch. They didn't die immediately, this true, but the fact is, this happens too.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying thats the case with Morrowind. In fact i would be surprised if it was, but it might be because there are many people, that for TES lore, or because this is their first MMO and they fell in love will tolerate much more than in other non TES MMO titles.

He/She picked the most successful MMO in history to try to suggest games don't die in one patch...disingenuous. I might add, not entirely true, WoD and Legion may actually kill WoW, those are the two worst expansions in WoW history and the recent 7.2 patch was so awful that its why I came here, only to have this crap with the PTS suck the wind outta my sails for ESO right away. I have seen several other MMO's die, or lose a massive base, over patches or bad decisions. WoW for scale dropped from a height of 12 million to about 6 million in 2015, and then they stopped publishing those numbers, likely because its no longer good publicity. So its just been getting worse with WoD and Legion.

zaria · April 2017

Vulture051 wrote: »

Resource issues. The "infinite" resources they talk about come from animation cancelling. Instead of preventing that they're nerfing us across the board and people that aren't gaming the system to weave in light attacks are the ones that are going to really feel it.

Don't see how animation cancel give resources at all outside of ultimate from light attacks.

Roovin · April 2017

Elsterchen wrote: »

Roovin wrote: »

1)There are classes and builds out there that can solo any dungeon in like 10-15 minutes.
2) There are classes and builds out there that can tank and heal at the same time negating the need for a healer.
3)There are classes and builds out there that can solo world bosses.

And people are complaining about getting nerfed? Pfff

All of that is fun and everything but if people cannot see why that is completely unbalanced then...

Change happens in every MMO out there.

Please inform yourself:

1) PVE in ESO is meant to be played by a solo player. This does make sense as the vestige is one person ... and the story played is that of the vestige and not the vestige and his guild/friends/random ppl passing by/etc.
Nothing in the PTS patch notes aims to change that. Dungeons are part of this story, to solo them is perfectly normal.

To make this clear, even after the patch every player should be able to solo dungeons in PVE, the class that can sprint through a dungeon naked and blindfolded and still kill all mobs atm will not loose any of the abilities to do what they do with the next patch. For the rest it will take a little more time (then it already does compared to sorcs). And THIS is why ppl fail to see the fun in this nerfs.

2) Please inform yourself about the class skills. You will find that each class can heal and tank at the same time - and no, ppl do not complain about this getting nerfed. Simply because this isn't what this patch is going to be about. To be able to tank and heal and even do damage on top of it with any class is intended by design and no one playing ESO for longer then a handfull of weeks will think this is going to change.

Simply spoken: all classes have skills to provide a toolset for each role: healer, DD, tank. These roles are not important for PVE, they are important for endcontend namely PVP, trials, pledges. Atm classes greatly differ in their abilty to fill these roles hence take part in endcontent. The new patch is not aiming to change this basic concept and in no way it has been a question of one class only fills one role in ESO. The complains in the forum are not about this core - approach but about the removal of many to all skills to certain classes that actually made it possible for each class to fill all roles AND be somewhat viable in endcontent. If the patch goes live as it is, some classes will loose the ability or the opportunity to perform in any 1 or even 2 of these roles in endcontend situations. If we look at PVP this means some classes loose the ability to perfom in PVP at a level that is higher than just beeing the punching ball for any other class. In trails and pledges some classes will not loose their ability but most likely their oportunity to take part. Since trials etc are centered around good group play its natural that ppl will check if their teammates are able to provide a noteable contribution. We (the players) know that especially for this endcontend some classes are already having trouble meeting the standards even PUG groups are expecting - funny enough with the patch the class that is regarded the worst class for PVE endcontend already will see the nerf hammer heavily hitting them. Again, this is most probably the reason why ppl fail to see the fun... especially NBs.

3) Yes ... and dolmen too if they get a chance to do so, maybe i am spoiling some fun for you, but during your quests you repeatedly defeat bosses and in one quest: solo a dolmen. Its not harder to do this with worldbosses once you know what you are doing and use the abilities you got wisely. i am pretty sure the patch notes do not aim at changing this, nor is any player (exept you it seems) complaining about the abilty to solo at least some world bosses.

You see, nothing you mentioned is actually in any way a topic in the changes to come... and please take the time to read everything up -- even if its just to prove me wrong. I urge you, as the changes that are going to hit us will be hard, but not in a way you currently imagine.

Lastly, I like to add... ESO is not "any mmo" it specifically doesn't want to be like "any mmo". Nor do many, I even imagine it to be a majority, players want ESO to be like "any mmo". Sure, changes are met with alot of drama here in the forums, but least assured this time every player i know first fell into shock after reading the patch notes. You surely have not noted that there are no: "Yeah class/playstile/race XY got nerfed and i like it!" - threads, which is very unusal. As far as I know both sides: support and drama are vocal and provide valid arguments as well drama and outcry. I see very little on the support side ... and honestly, even drama and outcry is LOW. People try to argue on a basis that allows discussions, even notorious baiters are quiet to an unusual extend. But, hey, you know it all, right?

Holy tangent batman. I thought it was pretty clear from my post that I was talking about content that is specifically labeled as group content...

And your point 3 is exactly proving my point. "it's not harder to do this with worldbosses"....it should be. Worldbosses shouldn't be soloable.

When I first got this game and got to 50, the GM of my guild told me about the undaunted stuff and why it is important to do the daily pledges. Well guess what? He grouped up with me and 2 other new guild mates and we cleared all of them while he did everything and we just twiddled our thumbs. He literally DPS'd the boss, tanked the boss and healed himself all while taking care of any adds all by himself. It is fun as hell to do but ridiculous at the same time.

Content that is labeled group content should not be soloable, and the vast majority of it is

sadownik · April 2017

@Roovin in practicly every MMO, every group content that was allowed for 1 person to enter was sooner or later soloed. There are always few percent of players that excel at the game so much they can do that. But balancing every player down just because those top can solo some of group content is nod a good idea. In fact the Morrowind patch results will not hurt those players that much in a sense that those players are able to use all the tools at thier disposal to adapt. Morrowind wont hurt players doing overworld content much either, but the more casual players, trying to do the harder parts of content will be in trouble. Does it sounds like what ZOS imagined as rising the floor and lowering the ceiling?

Lord_Empyrean · April 2017

Unlike other MMO's i still don't get the reason to do certain PVE. Is the gear different, I can craft or will be able to craft anything in time. What's the purpose?! And as I level and see so many highend players rushing regular dungeons i don;t get to loot the boxes or enjoy the content. It's a little wierd when i que as a healer and don't heal. I love healing!!! PVE needs fixing. The other problem is the crap grouping that has no basses on skill level or in the LEAST a minimum gear level AND CP requirement.

Would love to try trials one day but haven't found a guild that does that most guilds are PVP or trade guilds becasue of another crap system...the lack of a real Auction House.

PVE is truely broken in my opinion.

WOW when you really think about it...i need to stop spending money in this game...LOL!

I have a lovely house but only i get to see it... im depressed going to bed.

Elsterchen · April 2017

@Roovin No it was not clear that you have been talking about 4-men or 12 men group content. These are indeed clearly labeled with a Plus-sign. PVE dungeons, worldbosses or dolmens are not... do you know why? Right, they do NOT count as "group content". Neither do undaunted guild quests, undaunted pledges do and they will send you to a dungeon clearly labeled with the Plus sign, but the quests just send you to dungeons that you should have done during normal questing anyways. Doing undaunted pledges solo is hard, but doable ... not with every build/gear/player/group dungeon ... but for those that like a challenge, why not? I strongly disagree with your claim that: "There are classes and builds out there that can solo any dungeon in like 10-15 minutes." AND TALKING ABOUT GROUP CONTENT. This isn't true, not even close to truth.

And please enlighten me how again is "2) There are classes and builds out there that can tank and heal at the same time ", namely the mere core abilitys to be able to block, taunt and heal in any way related to, "negating the need for a healer." ?

Finally your last argument
"3)There are classes and builds out there that can solo world bosses." dismantles you. Do you know why there is no plus sign at the locations of world bosses? - There was a good amount of players that have been able to solo at least some of them before group content was even implemented in this game. Seemed rather dull to label something "group content" when it was clearly not. Oh yeah, this was before the patches that buffed sustain, needless to say it was before we knew of V14 (that was added with craglorn) and at this time no-one heard of CP.

So yeah, come again, how exactly are your arguments contibuting to the discussion? - PVE beeing very easy for players isn't even an issue here, remember?

LadyDestiny · April 2017

More grinding.....having to pay for character slots to play their dlc, probably having to pay to reset skills and class races too because said race is junk now.....

ashenb14_ESO · April 2017

https://youtu.be/9owc4a8A8PQ

hassubhai · April 2017

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Because...

Ugh nvm too sick and tired to list down what's wrong with the lates notes.

What is the purpose of this comment lol

hassubhai · April 2017

FireCowCommando wrote: »

ESO already lost most of its hardcore player base, and PvP player base. I dont understand why ZoS doesn't just leave these infinite resource/high damage builds alone, they are not going to draw in a significant amount of players who left.

Everyone i know who played ESO for its PvP for 1-2 years will never touch this game no matter how its changed. ZoS has been moving away from its original combat system for such a long time. Even if resources were difficult to manage like they used to be so many nerfs to abilities have happened from then to now its silly to just try to press reset with resource management.

Disagree, as a player who left some time ago because of pvp becoming *** i would gladly come back if they fixed things up.

notimetocare · April 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

So far the main changes i see are the coming of warden and the reduced sustian, which as a pvp player im ecstatic about. I completely agree with zos that sustain is stupidly easy conpared to earlier eso. I dont really care about much else of the changes because they dont seem all bad, maybe im missing something.

What is so bad about morrowind?

Yeah you're missing the bit where not everyone, in fact not even the majority, give a damn about PvP.

You're missing the bit where PvE players - who are the significant majority - are sick and tired of seeing their play style, their class, their builds nerfed through the floor just because a vocal minority of PvPers whine when someone beats them.

Don't like getting beat in PvP you have two choices - 1) Git Gud 2) Stop Playing PvP.

I knew I was never going to get good enough at PvP to enjoy it as much as I would want, so I stopped playing PvP.
Not once, not ever, did I throw dolly out the pram and rant that X needs to be nerfed, because I knew those nerfs would have far more impact on PvE than they do on PvP because far fewer players regularly PvP.

All The Best

You onow they wanted these changes in PvE too right? If they really wanted to balance something only for pvp they would

Tavore1138 · April 2017

hassubhai wrote: »

So far the main changes i see are the coming of warden and the reduced sustian, which as a pvp player im ecstatic about. I completely agree with zos that sustain is stupidly easy conpared to earlier eso. I dont really care about much else of the changes because they dont seem all bad, maybe im missing something.

What is so bad about morrowind?

The short answer is that the sweeping changes to resource management make combat feel static and boring and thus makes combat in the game feel like a chore instead of fun - basically doing the same content is not harder or more skilled it just takes longer and you have less fun doing it...

Sakiri · April 2017

I have yet to play an MMO where they don't completely rework entire systems and mechanics every expansion.

You get used to it, and learn to adapt.

Get used to it, they're likely doing the same thing in the next expansion.

Coilbox · April 2017

Lots of people complaining about pug groups that dont know how to run a minimal efficient build or have 0 knowledge of the game mechanics or their own role in the party (which is apparently the vast majority when you jump into a dungeon using the random finder), and these very same people complaining about how 'easy' the PVE aspect of the game is...

Am I the only one who sees a huge contradiction here? Maybe not everyone is such an elite player as you guys that can solo every single dungeon and world boss? Maybe the game seems easy for you because you have ran the same content again and again after years but the new players cant even figure out the basic mechanics?

Stop with the *** of PVE being 'utterly easy', not everyone has the same view as you.

Doctordarkspawn · April 2017

Sakiri wrote: »

I have yet to play an MMO where they don't completely rework entire systems and mechanics every expansion.

You get used to it, and learn to adapt.

Get used to it, they're likely doing the same thing in the next expansion.

Learn to tollerate a difference of opinion and the consumers right to withdraw their support.

This needs to be the copy pasted response to 'learn to adapt'.

Doctordarkspawn · April 2017

Tavore1138 wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

So far the main changes i see are the coming of warden and the reduced sustian, which as a pvp player im ecstatic about. I completely agree with zos that sustain is stupidly easy conpared to earlier eso. I dont really care about much else of the changes because they dont seem all bad, maybe im missing something.

What is so bad about morrowind?

The short answer is that the sweeping changes to resource management make combat feel static and boring and thus makes combat in the game feel like a chore instead of fun - basically doing the same content is not harder or more skilled it just takes longer and you have less fun doing it...

Essentially this.

I could totally adapt, bring myself into the meta fold but then again what would be the point? If I'm not having fun, why am I playing?

People dont seem to get games are not an obligation. Or rather, they think they are, because their playing them. They will do anything to preserve -their- fun, they dont care about yours. You need to keep the game alive so these result driven people have a metric to measure their success, and increasing difficulty to beat and lawd over the rest of us.

Their not whining because your opinion is wrong, allthough they think it is. They hate you because if you go, their fun goes.

Nifty2g · April 2017

Why are people dreading it?

Because the first and foremost reason is that ever since champion points have been introduced we as players have been getting stronger and stronger making a progression with ourselves, is that a bad system, sort of yes but that's not the point. Every patch to this point has been a dynamic character progression. Learning rotations, getting better and better slowly, upgrading gear, playing multiple classes and races and roles. Now this patch is coming along and stripping away sustain. Why stripping sustain is bad is because up until now we have never had an issue with sustain it's pretty much a fundamental mechanic how it is in the game. Does it need adjustments? Yes, but the way ZOS has went about it is resetting about 2 years work for some people and their characters. You're essentially losing a lot of strength because of this patch. It is something the community has never exactly been through.

What also ties into the first part is that we are losing a lot of group play and synergy play. Something that ESO has been about since the game released is being changed, a ton of homogenization is being introduced to the game, skills are doing the same thing, classes lose their unique abilities and support roles won't feel nearly as important as they once were.

Is what ZOS doing bad? No, it was expected and it was necessary, but it should have been progression additions patch after patch not all at once, because no one wants to have spent all this time only to have your progression reset, whether it is solo or guild, players have been working and playing to get good at the game. I mean there are counters to this which just result into slow paced heavy attack gameplay, it also makes proc sets great again, no one was a fan of these playstyles it's not what the game has been built upon.

So that is why most people are dreading this update, ESO has taken since launch to get to this point and they are resetting a ton of progress and saying it will help make ESO better "for years to come". Although it's going to take awhile for players to get where they were and they are going to lose a lot of valuable end game players who contribute to the community a lot. But then again it is only week 1 of the PTS and week 2 is about to hit. So we can only really hope that ZOS will actually work with those on the NDA and take the feedback and help balance out majority of the changes and the community can work with ZOS and create a game that everyone likes.

But if worse comes to worse then yeah, that's what people are dreading