suggestion: heavy attack changes

Lynx7386 · April 2017

With the resource changes, heavy attacks are going to be a much more necessary part of every build. I'd like to suggest a few changes to make this more palatable to players;

Light and heavy attacks need more animations, since we're going to be seeing them a lot more.

Frost/fire staves could use faster heavies, especially frost since it's a taunt. Lightning and resto are fine.

Bow heavy needs to not "hold" anymore, that's one of the things I hate most about it. Should also be significantly faster.

2h heavy should be moderately faster, but dual wield should have one of the quickest heavy attacks.

1h/shield should be the fastest heavy attack in the game, to aid tanks in getting some of their stamina back without lowering block for too long.

Flattedfifth · April 2017

Omfg what did you just make me read

theamazingx · April 2017

Frost heavy will have to be faster for it to ever be a viable taunt.

Rest is a bit silly. Some cooler animations would be nice to liven it up, but no actual adjustments.

Lynx7386 · April 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Frost heavy will have to be faster for it to ever be a viable taunt.

Rest is a bit silly. Some cooler animations would be nice to liven it up, but no actual adjustments.

So you think it makes sense that a dagger and a battle axe take the same amount of time to attack with?

Dracane · April 2017

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

If they do that they'll need to nerf the heavy armor passive that increases resources gained from heavy attacks in order to balance it out.

Dracane · April 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

If they do that they'll need to nerf the heavy armor passive that increases resources gained from heavy attacks in order to balance it out.

Okay, do it

Twohothardware · April 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

If they do that they'll need to nerf the heavy armor passive that increases resources gained from heavy attacks in order to balance it out.

They already nerfed it last patch and heavy will likely have a lot harder time sustaining now with the CP changes. Has anyone here currently tested heavy armor much on the PTS?

theamazingx · April 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Frost heavy will have to be faster for it to ever be a viable taunt.

Rest is a bit silly. Some cooler animations would be nice to liven it up, but no actual adjustments.

So you think it makes sense that a dagger and a battle axe take the same amount of time to attack with?

From a balance perspective, yes. Swinging two small axes vs one big one, whoopitydoo. If you want it realistic for RP purposes, I recommend letting go earlier.

tplink3r1 · April 2017

Heavy attacks for melee weapons should be faster at the cost of a damage reduction, it is much harder to land a melee heavy attack than a ranged one in PVP. This needs to be done if the new patch ends up forcing people to use heavy attacks to regenerate resources.

Masel · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

You're kind of alone with that opinion, most people rage about the way that heavy attacks need to be included in rotations now as they make the rotation "too easy".

I rather think that ZoS will nerf them too. On the PTS it's all sorcs and dks with heavy attack builds in the new trial.

They need to make inferno heavy attacks shorter to make them worthwhile to include in a rotation to not run out of magicka.

I also tested a lot of different setups in terms of sustain, and most of them were fine if you had around 1300 recovery.

E.g. a Bow/Bow Build on some specific class (disguise

) was sustainable just fine. Stamina Builds should be able to sustain with one Recovery glyph, VO and a good uptime on the 20% recovery buffs.

Same goes for magicka builds.

Dracane · April 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

You're kind of alone with that opinion, most people rage about the way that heavy attacks need to be included in rotations now as they make the rotation "too easy".

I rather think that ZoS will nerf them too. On the PTS it's all sorcs and dks with heavy attack builds in the new trial.

They need to make inferno heavy attacks shorter to make them worthwhile to include in a rotation to not run out of magicka.

I also tested a lot of different setups in terms of sustain, and most of them were fine if you had around 1300 recovery.

E.g. a Bow/Bow Build on some specific class (disguise ) was sustainable just fine. Stamina Builds should be able to sustain with one Recovery glyph, VO and a good uptime on the 20% recovery buffs.

Same goes for magicka builds.

As I understand it, people mostly dislike heavy attacks. They have a too long cast and restore not enough and I personally think the damage is not great either for the time it takes.

So I suggested, that they make them more desireable.

Arenguros · April 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Bow heavy needs to not "hold" anymore, that's one of the things I hate most about it.

100% agree on this one. The rest - nope.
If we ever want Bow to be viable and not super annoying in a meta that includes Heavy Attacks, this needs to happen.

When people like the hold mechanic in certain situations (PvP, Stealth Solo PvE) - why not just make it a toggle in the gameplay options? This could even be extended to all weapons.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Dracane · April 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Do they ? What do they restore ? 2k magicka or so ? Haven't used one since DB pts after they nerfed it.
(just tested, it restores 2400 magicka, this is laughable and a bad joke, it's nothing. Buff it)

OdinForge · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Do they ? What do they restore ? 2k magicka or so ? Haven't used one since DB pts after they nerfed it.
(just tested, it restores 2400 magicka, this is laughable and a bad joke, it's nothing. Buff it)

Panth141 · April 2017

Just as a side note, with more green CPs freed up by reduced cost removal, you've got a few to invest in tenacity if you so desire. Granted, it's a percentage boost to a percentage return, but it's something.

Dracane · April 2017

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Do they ? What do they restore ? 2k magicka or so ? Haven't used one since DB pts after they nerfed it.
(just tested, it restores 2400 magicka, this is laughable and a bad joke, it's nothing. Buff it)

What I meant by that, is that I never used one for the purpose of restoring ressources. I feel like it's a waste of time for how little it does.

theamazingx · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Do they ? What do they restore ? 2k magicka or so ? Haven't used one since DB pts after they nerfed it.
(just tested, it restores 2400 magicka, this is laughable and a bad joke, it's nothing. Buff it)

What I meant by that, is that I never used one for the purpose of restoring ressources. I feel like it's a waste of time for how little it does.

In terms of sustain, it's not just the one magicka tick you get at the end, it's that it costs nothing. And with a maelstrom WoE down, lightning heavies tick pretty hard and cleave even harder. People are already doing fine on pts with a standard prepatch build and one heavy per rotation replacing a couple spammables, buffing the base resource return doesn't seem necessary.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Do they ? What do they restore ? 2k magicka or so ? Haven't used one since DB pts after they nerfed it.
(just tested, it restores 2400 magicka, this is laughable and a bad joke, it's nothing. Buff it)

That is plenty significant when you spend 1.5 seconds or more charging the heavy attack instead of casting a spell. That's 2400 magicka from the heavy attack + a regen tick with no expenditure during that period.

Make a habit of heavy attacking, and they add up quickly. Heavy attacks would be as op as Dark Deal if one made a significant difference on its own. They're meant to be used regularly in your rotations.

Vanady · April 2017

Who needs abilities, let's just heavy attack. There will only be heavy attack builds, that's what they wanted it seems, why so ever.

idk · April 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Frost heavy will have to be faster for it to ever be a viable taunt.

Frost taunt is a viable taunt though I doubt it's intended to be viable for every situation just like puncture isn't viable for every situation.

Dracane · April 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would buff heavy attacks, at least in the aspect of ressource restoration.
I think it was with Dark Brotherhood, where they buffed them it was a beautiful restoration.... But they stealth reverted it right away the week after.

Please increase the amount of ressources heavy attacks restore, in order to compensate and give us a good reason to use them.

Heavy attacks already restore a ton of resources and deal decent damage... You should already be making timely use of heavy attacks in pvp.

Do they ? What do they restore ? 2k magicka or so ? Haven't used one since DB pts after they nerfed it.
(just tested, it restores 2400 magicka, this is laughable and a bad joke, it's nothing. Buff it)

That is plenty significant when you spend 1.5 seconds or more charging the heavy attack instead of casting a spell. That's 2400 magicka from the heavy attack + a regen tick with no expenditure during that period.

Make a habit of heavy attacking, and they add up quickly. Heavy attacks would be as op as Dark Deal if one made a significant difference on its own. They're meant to be used regularly in your rotations.

2400 magicka is exactly nothing. My ward costs almost 3k magicka now and 1,5 of standing there and channeling makes me so vulnerable. I get nothing out of a heavy attack, because my next ability drains it all.
I personally think, around 4k restoration is needed.