Siphoning Strikes - More Alternatives

esoub17_ESO30 · April 2017

Let me start by stating Siphoning Strikes in its current form is not resulting in Knighblades being overpowered when compared to other classes in ANY role. They are widely considered the DPS underdog. They hold their own as tanks, but DKs are still widely preferred. And no one would argue they're better group healers/damage mitigates than a Templar.

That said, any change to the existing value this skill provides must be balanced with similar changes to other classes. Anything less will cause the class to be even more under-powered when compared to other classes.

The primary value provided by this skill is BOTH stam and magicka regen to the caster. Removing 1 component is a 50% redux in current value. Removing 1 and cutting the other to 1/3 is an 83% reduction. Removing the 10% proc chance from Siphoning Attacks drops it even further, call it -90%. No other resource recovery skill change on test is even remotely close to this level of reduction.

The addition of a heal, while nice... is NOT a replacement for the lost value, and does not even bring the skill in line with similar skills from other classes. By comparison, Restoring Aura cost just 30% more to provide the same recovery for all 3 stats TO THE ENTIRE GROUP for just 2 seconds less, while also providing 10% tri-stat recovery for simply slotting it. That's a potential net of roughly 87k total resource (30k stam/27k mag/30k health) vs. 36k total (6k stam OR mag/30k health). Not even remotely equitable... worse so when you look at just the skill resource portion with the Templar skill providing nearly 10x.

I generally agree with a universal and proportional reduction of sustained, however this clearly is NOT in proportion to other classes, neither in the amount reduced, nor in the end result.

Here are some suggestions to retain the current utility while still reducing the sustained in a proportional way.

Option 1 - Scaled version of current skill.
Siphoning Strikes: Cost 800 - restores 396 Stam and Mag on light/heavy atk.
Leaching Strikes: Adds health recovery (not a toggle and no damage redux)
Siphoning Attacks: Adds 10% chance to proc 792 stam and mag on other direct damage.

Option 2 - Group Utility
Siphoning Strikes: Cost 800 - restores 396 Stam and Mag on light/heavy atk.
Robust Strikes: Also restores 198 stam to your group.
Arcane Strikes: Also restores 198 mag to your group.

Option 3 - Debuffs
Siphoning Strikes: Cost 800 - restores 396 Stam and Mag on light/heavy atk.
Defiling Strikes: Also applies Minor Defile.
Mangling Strikes: Also applies Minor Mangle.

Option 1 will be the least disruptive while providing the intended scale back in sustained.

Personally I prefer Option 2 as it adds some badly needed group utility to the class, and helps close the huge gap in the healer role, while retaining the basic function of the skill.

Option 3 provides rare debuffs, which fits with the current debuff focus of the class while retaining the basic function of the skill.

Note: If you feel the class needs a heal buff, simply buff the existing heal by raising the upfront cost and front loading it with a heal component equal to the damage done.

DuckNoodles · April 2017

No, i like option 4

Revert back to original skill not PTS changes.

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2017

Option 5, the heal can crit. Heavy attacks restore double.

aeowulf · April 2017

Option 6, make it proc off dots again

Option 7, and my preferred - do not let any change hit live. Nightblades are not the preferred option in any role, yet receiving the biggest nerf. Current proposed changes make the skill absolutely useless because it's being changed from a resource return to a skill where the primary function is to HEAL. I don't mind this as long as you give us an additional skill with a primary function of resource return, like every other class.

LAiq_theMiar · April 2017

aeowulf wrote: »

Option 7, and my preferred - do not let any change hit live. Nightblades are not the preferred option in any role, yet receiving the biggest nerf. Current proposed changes make the skill absolutely useless because it's being changed from a resource return to a skill where the primary function is to HEAL. I don't mind this as long as you give us an additional skill with a primary function of resource return, like every other class.

I honestly think this is the most elegant solution. If they are concerned that unnerfed Siphoning Strikes will have too much sustain going into this resource rebalance, provide a means of counterplay like poisons that increase resource regeneration (like the skill cost increase poisons, but to regen instead, more options aside from just the new CP star), or adjust the numbers slightly instead of obliterating them. Siphoning Strikes was the one big thing I thought Nightblades would have going into this major resource rebalance that could keep them relevant.

Moncho11 · April 2017

If they are intent on keeping it as is I think they should at least add major savagery and prophecy. Reason being night blades have bonuses to crit but can't buff savagery without slotting a skill you never press or forking out a lot for potions which most non hardcore players will not use.

argouru · April 2017

Whatever they do, I hope they keep the healing as stamblades need a decent heal and don't have one. SS also needs to remain a resource regain power as it's the only one the class has. If they can change the cost and the stamina/magicka returns to make it a practical power to use without sacrificing the healing I'll be happy. They need to realize that this power needs to be activated when you are low on resources in order to get some back, which is the whole point of resource regen powers.

aeowulf · April 2017

this is not a resource return skill, any more, it's a heal over time.

so can we get a resource return skill?

Novidian · April 2017

I hate to say it, but this is about as class defining as any damn PvE skill for stamNBs. I don't know about others, but save
surprise attack (I'm a CP300, non maelstrom, relative newbie), this is the ONLY other skill I use in my rotation. Focus, maybe.

Perhaps it can scale based on available magika/stamina. 100% more sub 50% available resource pool, and then 150% more
sub 25% resource for the morphs, (so MAX 1200). So the lower you get, the more it fights to keep you afloat with resources.

And honestly, I don't give a damn about the heal. It's a HoT you have to proc. If I die as a stamNB, it's burst damage. Why
can't it be a stacking shield instead? So when the inevitable burst damage hits you, you're not one shotted? Why not:

First skill:
[Magika]: Light and heavy attacks grant a 1200pt hard capped damage shield for 10s, can stack up to 10 times.

Morph 1: [Stamina] 1200pt hard capped damage shield for 10s, can stack up to 10 times.
Now restores 400 magika when you land a light or heavy attack. Restores up to 150% more based on available magika.

Morph 2: [Magika] 1200pt hard capped damage shield for 10s, can stack up to 10 times.
Now restores 400 stamina when you land a light or heavy attack. Restores up to 150% more based on available stamina.

Doesn't help PvP much, since you're not weaving as much, but for PvE, if you're doing consistent weaves, you can build a
reasonable cushion to absorb the one shots. Doesn't take TOO long to build up, but doesn't seem OP or broken in that sense.
The ability is also more effective in an 'oh crap' moment, without giving an unfair consistent sustain. The only time it
resembles the old skill is when you're reeeeaaally struggling and it makes sense. 150% is fair given the 10% proc nerf.

Oh, and seriously... why would they make it cost the resource it's building on TOP of nerfing it. Think, people. smh.

Novidian · April 2017

argouru wrote: »

Whatever they do, I hope they keep the healing as stamblades need a decent heal and don't have one. SS also needs to remain a resource regain power as it's the only one the class has. If they can change the cost and the stamina/magicka returns to make it a practical power to use without sacrificing the healing I'll be happy. They need to realize that this power needs to be activated when you are low on resources in order to get some back, which is the whole point of resource regen powers.

Honestly, I'm popping the skill no matter what I'm fighting and weaving. It just keeps the train rolling more smoothly, IMO.

Truth be told, I wish they'd leave it the hell alone, but otherwise increase the duration by 5s.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

I'm all for adding heals to the ability, reworking Leeching Strikes, or nerfing Siphoning Attacks.

Just don't decouple the dual resource return of Siphoning, and I'd prefer if they left the percent change to gain resources on dealing direct damage. That component synergizes nicely with sap.