What happened was Zos told us that with the subscription, subscribers can expect exclusive dlc (dlc that non subscribers would have to pay for) approx every 3 months.
By the time Morrowind releases, a whole year would have past without subscribers getting any.
It really is as simple as that as to why most feel pissed off
I fully expect to have to pay for an actual expansion, but it would have been nice if Zos had also given us what they originally promised.
I did cancel my sub, not because I have to pay for a expansion, but because I didn't get what was promised (and this isn't the first time Zos has done this), however a few weeks without my crafting bag and I gave in and re-subbed
Alchemical wrote: »Subscribing is not a big deal to me. Buying an expansion pack in addition to subscribing isn't that big a deal either. But I'm the kinda psycho who spent a decade playing WoW and invested thousands of dollars in my account.
To me the big debate seems to be about semantics. Because expansion packs are DLC despite what anyone tries to say. Personally it seems obvious major expansions would be excluded from the sub system, since it includes multiple new areas and a swathe of new content (including an entire class) as opposed to a singular zone and skill line as with previous DLCs, which would be prohibitively expensive to distribute for free. But it does go against the most literal interpretation of the ESO+ subscription, which grants access to 'all' DLC.
I do find Morrowind's starting price of $60 extremely offensive. Expansion packs usually do not cost the same as a brand new game, since they depend on another game to function. Maybe if they gave subscribers a $15 discount on expansions, as a sign of good faith for their ongoing support, people would be a little less miffed. I know I'm sure as heck not paying full brand new video game retail for DLC.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »If you put a bird feeder out to give the birds in the area free food, then wait until the birds have gotten used to the free food, and then take that food away, you may find yourself getting attacked by angry birds wanting their free food.
I think that is similar to what is going on here.
Except there is a VERY large difference. The birds will still be getting free food, except that if they want access to even more food, then they have to pay for it. So the birds have to decide whether they can be content with the smaller amounts of food for free or willing to pay for access to the larger amount of food as well.
In other words, ZOS has stated that all DLCs will remain free for subscribers but CHAPTERS will have to be paid for... as an ESO+ subscriber, I don't have a problem with this.
I don't think your comment accurately describes Zubokos.
The free food are specific examples such as the housing dlc, new dungeons added I and II versions and Craglorn update with One Tamriel. Then look at the amount of time which has passed where a subscription wasn't needed to access content due to a very long span of time without dlc.
Taking the free food away then becomes equivalent to changing the terms of eso Plus for Morrowind to require payment for this upcoming add-on.
The reaction mentioned comes about by means of this @ADarklore
You're implying the someone has been here that long... and most of the arguments I've seen have not come from previous original release subscribers, they've come from players who came after B2P, subscribed, and are now complaining that CHAPTERS will have to be paid for when they believed all future DLCs would be free. Well, Morrowind is not a DLC, it is a Chapter that has it's own retail version and will not be available in the Crown Store like other true DLCs. There is a difference and those players don't like it and want to argue semantics instead of accepting what is and either live with it or move on.
@ADarklore
No I'm not implying anything. I'm just reading Zubokos comment and your response.
Regardless of the use of words for add-on, dlc, chapter.....different terminology is not the cause of discontent with what we see in the forums or websites.
It's literally not semantics it's a distinct required change in structure to access content so semantics isn't accurate or a way to mention people's situations.
Zubokos comment that you responded to in which I quoted above, very accurately captures 2017 as a whole. It also involves a large portion of 2016 in terms of structure and the absence of paid content so the free example applies.
If it's OK, I'm going to use your recent comment that the players haven't been here that long....
This means for those new customers, who are either buying the gold edition or the base game and gold dlc via crowns as well as playing under a console options where one buys and few others share. Pc would only have base or base and gold considered.
Of those, other than eso plus being for those other benefits, they haven't had any need to pay for anything else.
What's important, those recent customers made decisions based upon the outlined structure which has drastically changed for them to require not only a chapter, dlc, add-on purchase but it creates uncertainty in the future as there's only ambiguous suggestions without details of if dlc for eso Plus will always come outside of a chapter.
While there are some who may just want something for nothing, logically the complaint threads have very few of those of that opinion as free was never a model suggested
ZOS has already stated that all DLC's will be included with ESO+, but Morrowind is NOT a DLC, it is a chapter; there will be one Chapter release per year which will require separate purchase. I think that is pretty straightforward and not ambiguous at all.
HatchetHaro wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »It's not about the money.
It's about the lies.
I think you take things far too seriously... there were no 'promises' or 'guarantees' and businesses are free to change their business model and businesses practices at any point in time, you agreed to it when you agreed to the TOS- did you not read it before agreeing?
You are confusing "business practice" with "ethics". Having free speech does not entitle you to freely insult anyone you want.
Same thing here. They may be allowed to change their business practice, but the way they did it is blatantly dishonest. I can go on for hours about this, but there have been plenty of points raised by many people who are irked by this.
That is you OPINION that it was 'dishonest'... it isn't a fact, because I have a different opinion and believe what they did was fully acceptable and within their rights and TOS to do. Also, I think you just proved my point about taking things too seriously by feeling like I insulted you by making an interpretation of your statement.
Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
What happened was Zos told us that with the subscription, subscribers can expect exclusive dlc (dlc that non subscribers would have to pay for) approx every 3 months.
By the time Morrowind releases, a whole year would have past without subscribers getting any.
It really is as simple as that as to why most feel pissed off
I fully expect to have to pay for an actual expansion, but it would have been nice if Zos had also given us what they originally promised.
I did cancel my sub, not because I have to pay for a expansion, but because I didn't get what was promised (and this isn't the first time Zos has done this), however a few weeks without my crafting bag and I gave in and re-subbed
You had Shadows of the Hist released in August 2016. While it may not have been content for ALL players, it still was a DLC release. Plus, we also received One Tamriel which took a ton of development time and the free Homestead update. So it's not like we didn't receive anything, it is just that some players didn't receive anything that applied to how they play the game. There is a difference between not receiving anything and not receiving anything you personally wanted to play.
Well, Morrowind is not technically a DLC for those who buy the boxed retail version. It's only 'downloadable' for those that buy the digital version. So in that respect, there is a difference... it's not 'DLC' for all players.
I find is funny that some people think others want stuff for free, when it is quite the opposite. They want what they have paid for with the original terms of ESO+. ......(removed some of the reply)....But you know, I just want things for free.....
Its not about the money. Its about ZOS's increasing focus on nickel and diming us for everything they do. When ESO+ was offered, the language said "access to all current and future DLC" (or something to that effect), and they quietly edited the terms on the store page before announcing Morrowind and saying "you see, the reason why this ISN'T standard DLC is..."
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »As long as this misunderstanding keeps popping up, I am going to keep posting this. This is my my complete and total answer analyzing all the factors involved that I compiled from a few previous posts with all evidence included. Hopefully this will demonstrate that is not a resistance to costs, its about morality and principle. It's a bit of a read, but it's worth it. Allow me to explain.
DLC vs Expansion:
Morrowind is about twice the size (in landmass) of previous DLCs and about 1.5x as long of a storyline as Wrothgar (30hrs vs 20). So its about the size two wrothgars. ...
butternutbutt wrote: »This is an enormous, open world game, with a huge amount of content. I paid like $40 bucks for it eight months ago and I'm still playing it. Most games that offer 10-20 hours of play from start to finish cost that much and don't have anywhere near the amount of content. I don't mind at all paying a subscription and buying special items as long as I'm still interested in playing, (which at this point doesn't seem likely to end anytime soon) when I'm getting hours and hours of play and consistently getting new content. Things won't always be perfect and I understand that it's a massive undertaking to manage such a complex game.
...
Let me be clear. I would have had no problem paying for an expansion and may have even bought their explanation that Morrowind is so much bigger than standard DLC and that's why they need to charge separately for it. However, everything else they've done recently instead indicated to me that their semantic shell game was purely to squeeze as much money out of everyone as possible. For instance...
DaveMoeDee wrote: »All those details don't matter though. ZOS decided they needed another revenue stream. They got it by removing one quarterly DLC from their plans and replacing it with additional paid content that would not be included in the sub. If that is what they need to do to remain sufficiently profitable to have a future, so be it. But it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
DaveMoeDee wrote: »butternutbutt wrote: »This is an enormous, open world game, with a huge amount of content. I paid like $40 bucks for it eight months ago and I'm still playing it. Most games that offer 10-20 hours of play from start to finish cost that much and don't have anywhere near the amount of content. I don't mind at all paying a subscription and buying special items as long as I'm still interested in playing, (which at this point doesn't seem likely to end anytime soon) when I'm getting hours and hours of play and consistently getting new content. Things won't always be perfect and I understand that it's a massive undertaking to manage such a complex game.
I think the point is that people who have subs paid $120 over those 8 months just replay the same content over and over.
This gave is an amazing value for the $20 gold sale price right now (on GMG) or for the $10 vanilla on steam/zos. That in no way addresses the complaints about those who have been loyal ESO+ subscribers.
Alchemical wrote: »Subscribing is not a big deal to me. Buying an expansion pack in addition to subscribing isn't that big a deal either. But I'm the kinda psycho who spent a decade playing WoW and invested thousands of dollars in my account.
To me the big debate seems to be about semantics. Because expansion packs are DLC despite what anyone tries to say. Personally it seems obvious major expansions would be excluded from the sub system, since it includes multiple new areas and a swathe of new content (including an entire class) as opposed to a singular zone and skill line as with previous DLCs, which would be prohibitively expensive to distribute for free. But it does go against the most literal interpretation of the ESO+ subscription, which grants access to 'all' DLC.
I do find Morrowind's starting price of $60 extremely offensive. Expansion packs usually do not cost the same as a brand new game, since they depend on another game to function. Maybe if they gave subscribers a $15 discount on expansions, as a sign of good faith for their ongoing support, people would be a little less miffed. I know I'm sure as heck not paying full brand new video game retail for DLC.
Morrowind is not a DLC so get with it or don't. But it is not gonna change the fact that it is an expansion. There is nothing in ESO+ that you get expansions for free.
I don't mind paying a subscription fee if the game is working well and is also well balanced.
I don't find the game to be working well in end game and it is badly balanced there as well.
They want it all. You buy the game, then subscription fee and then micro/macro transactions.
If you put a bird feeder out to give the birds in the area free food, then wait until the birds have gotten used to the free food, and then take that food away, you may find yourself getting attacked by angry birds wanting their free food.
I think that is similar to what is going on here.
Except there is a VERY large difference. The birds will still be getting free food, except that if they want access to even more food, then they have to pay for it. So the birds have to decide whether they can be content with the smaller amounts of food for free or willing to pay for access to the larger amount of food as well.
In other words, ZOS has stated that all DLCs will remain free for subscribers but CHAPTERS will have to be paid for... as an ESO+ subscriber, I don't have a problem with this.