@Masel92
First of all thank your for the comparison. Most decent theorycrafters should know that basically all setups you can use are within a few percentage range so that outcome is not surprising. Player skill and good weaving will always make a bigger difference than gear. Only for the trial top scores you need to squeeze out everything out of your gear.
I have another question that is related to weaving:
Does your effective spellpower include weaving at all, since it scales differently?
Many people forget that weaving scales roughly with (magicka + 40*spelldmg), therefore sets like Spinner, TBS and Necropotence will loose some more dmg compared to Julianos or BSW.
When I do calculations like this I always include weaving with an error rate of around 25% in addition to the effective ability spellpower.
What is that power? What is it measured in, what are the units? DPS? damage? spell damage? I don't get it how it's defined and calculated, and therefore not 100% sure it's showing anything.
The uesp effective spell power includes everything except flat percentage bonuses like elemental expert, minor vulnerability and the exploiter passive, which is why I factored them in afterwards because all three affect basically all damage you deal. Proc sets are also excluded, but all of the setups are exactly similar and have only illambris as proc based set. The burning status effect from BSW is excluded too and will push those percentages a little more.
@Masel92
First of all thank your for the comparison. Most decent theorycrafters should know that basically all setups you can use are within a few percentage range so that outcome is not surprising. Player skill and good weaving will always make a bigger difference than gear. Only for the trial top scores you need to squeeze out everything out of your gear.
I have another question that is related to weaving:
Does your effective spellpower include weaving at all, since it scales differently?
Many people forget that weaving scales roughly with (magicka + 40*spelldmg), therefore sets like Spinner, TBS and Necropotence will loose some more dmg compared to Julianos or BSW.
When I do calculations like this I always include weaving with an error rate of
Concerning your question: nope, weaving is not part of the calculation, and neither are proc based sets that give a flat damage value as viper/illambris etc. In this case it doesn't matter because the setups all use the same proc set, but in general that makes them hard to compare in theory.
[...]
The above calculations are based on the power that the sets have if you perform the exact same fight with the exact same rotation.
What is that power? What is it measured in, what are the units? DPS? damage? spell damage? I don't get it how it's defined and calculated, and therefore not 100% sure it's showing anything.
Your abilities' damage is determined by:
X * Y
Where X is the skills damage coefficient and Y is the effective spell power (which can be approximated by spell_damage + max_magicka / 10 and then accounting for crit chance, crit damage and buff/debuff uptime)
To quote the OP, part that you seemed to ignore:The uesp effective spell power includes everything except flat percentage bonuses like elemental expert, minor vulnerability and the exploiter passive, which is why I factored them in afterwards because all three affect basically all damage you deal. Proc sets are also excluded, but all of the setups are exactly similar and have only illambris as proc based set. The burning status effect from BSW is excluded too and will push those percentages a little more.
Visit uesp for more details.
Since X is static and coded into the game this analysis aims to find the highest value of Y.
If you are interested in the coefficients they are listed there:
http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php
What is that power? What is it measured in, what are the units? DPS? damage? spell damage? I don't get it how it's defined and calculated, and therefore not 100% sure it's showing anything.
Your abilities' damage is determined by:
X * Y
Where X is the skills damage coefficient and Y is the effective spell power (which can be approximated by spell_damage + max_magicka / 10 and then accounting for crit chance, crit damage and buff/debuff uptime)
To quote the OP, part that you seemed to ignore:The uesp effective spell power includes everything except flat percentage bonuses like elemental expert, minor vulnerability and the exploiter passive, which is why I factored them in afterwards because all three affect basically all damage you deal. Proc sets are also excluded, but all of the setups are exactly similar and have only illambris as proc based set. The burning status effect from BSW is excluded too and will push those percentages a little more.
Visit uesp for more details.
Since X is static and coded into the game this analysis aims to find the highest value of Y.
If you are interested in the coefficients they are listed there:
http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php
What I'm saying is that I saw his build that supposedly has more power, yet somehow my DPS was higher.
So again - either that effective power and the way you account for crit etc is not defined correctly or the way it translates into actual DPS is not that clear. I do remember that formula, though yes. So it's like spell power, since magicka/10 adds roughly as much damage as 1 spell power. That link doesn't have anything about crit and stuff.
My point is - differences in that power are not the same as differences in DPS. Not even sure that they are proportional to them. And from what I've seen so far - it can be so that the power is greater but the DPS is lower. And then I don't even know what's the point of comparing powers when it's the DPS that people are trying to maximize.
The effective spell power is the basis of your DPS. It includes:
1. your maximum magicka with a conversion ratio of 10.5 to 1
2. Your spell damage
3. Your spell critical
4. Your spell critical damage modifier
5. Your Resistance mitigation of enemies' armor
6. Your flat percentage increases in damage
Those things are everything that determines your damage in ESO and the effective spell power shows how hard your skills will hit. The higher it is the higher your damage is. If you perform the same rotation with all the above setups, E.g. Against a skeleton dummy, the average difference (with a standard deviation of course) in DPS in comparison to the BiS setup will be the above mentioned percentages.
I could list all the respective formulas, but that wouldn't be helping here.
So basically before you work on your rotation, this metric is a very good way to check whether the build you plan on using is actually worth testing.
The reason for you doing supposedly more DPS is that my rotation is simply different and not in any way optimised, as I'm not a min/maxer who likes to stand hours in front of a dummy. Believe me I'm a practical guy myself, but I just wanted to show people that this discussion of 'sharpened or not viable' is ridiculously narrow when it comes to actual math inherent to the game.
The effective spell power is the basis of your DPS. It includes:
1. your maximum magicka with a conversion ratio of 10.5 to 1
2. Your spell damage
3. Your spell critical
4. Your spell critical damage modifier
5. Your Resistance mitigation of enemies' armor
6. Your flat percentage increases in damage
Those things are everything that determines your damage in ESO and the effective spell power shows how hard your skills will hit. The higher it is the higher your damage is. If you perform the same rotation with all the above setups, E.g. Against a skeleton dummy, the average difference (with a standard deviation of course) in DPS in comparison to the BiS setup will be the above mentioned percentages.
I could list all the respective formulas, but that wouldn't be helping here.
So basically before you work on your rotation, this metric is a very good way to check whether the build you plan on using is actually worth testing.
The reason for you doing supposedly more DPS is that my rotation is simply different and not in any way optimised, as I'm not a min/maxer who likes to stand hours in front of a dummy. Believe me I'm a practical guy myself, but I just wanted to show people that this discussion of 'sharpened or not viable' is ridiculously narrow when it comes to actual math inherent to the game.
The formulas would help probably. And no, I haven't spent hours in front of a dummy. I see how it can be a check whether it's worth testing, but still, not sure it actually says how DPS compares. Either formulas aren't correct which I can't say since I didn't see them, or simply the way it translates into DPS is not what you expect. Or something is not taken into account.
Karacule_Fairystar wrote: »can I have a TLDR shortest version possible?