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Why do I have to pay guild fees just to auction stuff off?

  • golfer.dub17_ESO
    golfer.dub17_ESO
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Not on of the three trading guilds i"'m in make you pay anything.

    Are you sure? Next time you list an item check to see what the guild cut is.
  • akl77
    akl77
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    Cos there's too many guilds wanting a trader and not enough guild trading stands.
    Pc na
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    Basically, players who would just like to sell something every once in a while, have little chance to be succesful. Every good trading guild has a minimum sales per week requirement, which means you cannot stay if you don't reach that requirement every week.

    The only remaining option is crappy casual trading guilds, who have traders in bad locations. Which means you cannot sell your stuff very well. It's such a flawed system.
  • agegarton
    agegarton
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    It's not true to say that ALL guilds with access to a trader charge a fee. I have run a guild since the earliest days of ESO, and the philosophy has always been "trade if you want, donate if you want". Recently, to encourage donations, we started a lottery system where each 1k buys a ticket to win something - sometimes a % of the pot, sometimes a bundle of items. All donations go toward securing the trader for another week, but I see it as my responsibility to make the shortfall.

    Equally, you don't need to have a trader in a "prime" spot to sell high priced items. I recently crafted 3 training skeletons, selling one in Craglorn, one in Deshaan, and the third in my own guild store in Hews Bane. I sold the one in Hews Bane for 20k more than the others.

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  • craftycarper73
    craftycarper73
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    i like the way certain guilds put crappy messages in your guild notes, if you forgot to pay or haven't been on to pay, how do they know what goes on IRL, id love the last GM to make *** remarks to my face like he did via messaging over fake 5k in gold. little ***.
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  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    You're participating in a more complex and realistic market system in this game than in other mmos with general auction houses. Guilds compete for trader locations, making some guilds better than others. Consider zone chat your fee-free auction house.

    Edit: if you're talking about mandatory player-imposed membership fees, find a new guild.
    Edited by NightbladeMechanics on April 6, 2017 7:57AM
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  • Nova Sky
    Nova Sky
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Not on of the three trading guilds i"'m in make you pay anything.

    Are you sure? Next time you list an item check to see what the guild cut is.

    That rate is set by the game itself and cannot be adjusted — up *or* down — by the guild.
    "Wheresoever you go, go with all of your heart."
  • Nermy
    Nermy
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    EJRose83 wrote: »
    Seriously, every guild with access to a guild vendor charges fees. I don't blame the players for this though, it's simply a design flaw on the dev's part - One that needs to be fixed IMO.

    If you went to a real-life auction house you'd have to pay a fee. Makes perfect economic sense, you are paying them for using their service. :)
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  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    I'm in 3 traders with no fees, two permantently have top spots. Just keep searching for the good ones. Also I generally donate 5k a week volentarily, as they give good revenue, also secures me Bank access and helps the guild.

    System works well if you go with it. Zero need for Auction House just learn this game.
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  • DurzoBlint13
    DurzoBlint13
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    EJRose83 wrote: »
    I know, but no one should have to pay weekly or monthly fees just to auction stuff off. Also, most guilds over charge for the vendors. It's a pointless money pit. A better system needs to be put into place if you ask me.

    if you think 5K gold a week is too much, you have no idea what you are talking about. It costs ridiculous amounts of gold to secure a trader in a 'hot spot' (Wayrest, Mournhold, Elden Root, etc). If you are selling anything worthwhile at all, you make more than that in 1 sale. And the sheer number of sales you make in a week through a trader in a prime spot is more than worth the fee.
    However, I do think the entire trader system needs an over-haul. But that does not mean the current system is bad or unfair......it could just be made better
    If you do not like the fees, go to one with them. You probably won't make as many sales or at the top prices, but you won't have to pay a fee either. "To each, his own"
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    On what servers is this an issue?

    I play on PC NA. I'm in guilds with traders in Rawl'kha, Mournhold, Wayrest, etc. I never pay a guild fee. I almost never make donations, buy raffle tickets, etc. I just sell stuff through the guilds. I've never been hassled, except when I took business trips and got kicked out a bit quickly for inactivity. (And that was easily fixed when I returned.)
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    From reading the posts, it makes me wonder if people aren't aware that they're paying fees to most guilds. I keep seeing posts about not paying fees, but do these people realize that fees are taken out before you receive your cut? Most guild traders not only charge a 'listing fee' but also a 'sales fee'... so before you start saying you never pay a fee, while you may not directly pay a fee, you most likely are paying an indirect fee through listing fee and sales fee.
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  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    Using a guild store saves me time and effort and stops a lot of spamming in area chat, and I make a lot of money from the stuff i sell. Again with little or no effort. If it costs me 5k in weekly charges to maintain that sort of selling, 5k is the least I can give back to the guild who helps me make a helluva lot more gold than I would otherwise make.
  • Artemiisia
    Artemiisia
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    OP wants a AH, and hides it with this request, its just the weekly I want a AH instead of guildtraders
  • xblackroxe
    xblackroxe
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    Ajaxduo wrote: »
    EJRose83 wrote: »
    Seriously, every guild with access to a guild vendor charges fees. I don't blame the players for this though, it's simply a design flaw on the dev's part - One that needs to be fixed IMO.

    lol it's not a flaw at all, how do you expect trading guilds to afford their spot?

    Clearly, by not having trading guilds needing to "afford" "spots". (i.e, having a centralized auction system, rather than this patchwork of NPC vendors scattered inconveniently across all corners of the map)


    But yeah, this is the terrible system they decided on, that for some odd reason people defend. Eh, whatever. Just seems like such an awful inconvenient waste. Goods to be sold that can't be found by consumers, valuable goods destroyed/lost/vendored rather than be available for other players, etc. But for the few who can work the system for Massive Profit, I'm sure they love having an artificially-limited playing field to reap their gold from. /shrug

    You know that those ppl that "work the system for massive profits" would just make more money with an auction house right? And that inflation would destroy any hope of newcomers being able to buy anything without farming for weeks to get some base money?

    The system how it is now makes around 50-70 million gold vanish each week + another few million for the tax on selling stuff (3.5% i think). And yet people still get richer and richer. Guess what happens if all that money doesn't get removed each week. In a few months/weeks the hardcore traders would probably all have 1kkk+ money and the price of everyday stuff like alloys and *** triples or more. Have fun paying 50k per wax or kuta.

    Really would be a much better place.

    Numbers estimated for EU-PC server.

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  • Milvan
    Milvan
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    Trade guild leaders be like

    giphy.gif


    And the players be like

    giphy.gif
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  • xblackroxe
    xblackroxe
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    Milvan wrote: »
    Trade guild leaders be like

    giphy.gif


    And the players be like

    giphy.gif

    Lol idk for like 4months since some friends found a trading guild they put like 500k out of their own pockets to get the guild running till we had enough people that sell and donate enough to not have to keep the trader running 100% out of our own pockets.

    Member of HODOR

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  • JKorr
    JKorr
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Not on of the three trading guilds i"'m in make you pay anything.

    Are you sure? Next time you list an item check to see what the guild cut is.

    I'm in 4 guilds; two try for traders. Both usually get one. Total dues required to be paid to stay in the guilds: 0 gold. Total amount of necessary sales to stay in the guild: 0 gold.

    One guild has voluntary raffles/auction. The other one has donations I think. Not really sure because I don't pay attention to the traders, really. Handy if I want to sell stuff, but not vital to my existence. If I don't sell anything, I have to pay nothing. The only requirement is that I have to log in at least once a week.

    If I use the trader to sell things, the guild is welcome to the fee.



  • faerigirl
    faerigirl
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    EJRose83 wrote: »
    I know, but no one should have to pay weekly or monthly fees just to auction stuff off. Also, most guilds over charge for the vendors. It's a pointless money pit. A better system needs to be put into place if you ask me.

    I agree. It's one of the reasons I don't have a guild :neutral: I generally don't sell anything in games even with a 'proper' auction house/trade broker. I buy occasionally but rarely if ever, sell.

    So I feel like why should I pay fees to a guild?

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to be in a guild but I'm not paying you to have the pleasure of my company :wink:
  • Danksta
    Danksta
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    It's called a gold sink and it is very much necessary.
    BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA

  • Jaeysa
    Jaeysa
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    I -might- consider paying dues if it was in a major hub(Stormhaven, The Litterbox, Mournhold, Et cetera). But the only one I've seen asking for dues was in Cold Harbor, asking for 5k.

    For reference, my guilds are in Daggerfall/Mournhold/Rawlkahadfh(The Litterbox)/Stormhaven. They send out plees for raffle/auction donations(That I sometimes give if I have stuff) and most have 2-5k minimum sales.
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  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    Milvan wrote: »
    Trade guild leaders be like

    giphy.gif


    And the players be like

    giphy.gif

    That's totally incorrect. No guild trade leader gains money from running a trade guild. None. Zero. 0. They always have to pay a large sum of their own money for the weekly trader bid. It's millions each week.
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  • Danksta
    Danksta
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    Milvan wrote: »
    Trade guild leaders be like

    giphy.gif


    And the players be like

    giphy.gif

    That's totally incorrect. No guild trade leader gains money from running a trade guild. None. Zero. 0. They always have to pay a large sum of their own money for the weekly trader bid. It's millions each week.

    Not every trader costs millions of gold per week.
    BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA

  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    Frankly, I'm beginning to understand why ZoS has made the trade guild system as it is:
    - with limited stalls available there is competition for all, so guilds are pressured to bid higher sums
    - guilds in turn put pressure on members to sell more and/or donate, lest they will be kicked
    - members feel the pressure to sell, so they adjust their prices accordingly, instead of putting things for sale and forgetting about them.
    - all the money swept from the economy by paying for trader and half the sale fees ensure that inflation doesn't get out of hand - gold sink - since there's plenty of non-trade sources for that like questing and vendoring to NPCs - gold springs - housing has been thought out first and foremost as a gold sink

    Overall, gold is still very easy to make in this game, even without aiming for it specifically so in time they must come out with something else, once the housing gets saturated.
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  • parkham
    parkham
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    It's pretty simple. The guild stall NPC / bidding system is terrible. I'm really surprised that a lot of folks defend it and (gasp!) actually like it.

    There's a more simple solution that works for everyone. I mentioned it in another post when the thread went into the guild stall selling direction. The solution is:

    Tavern barkeepers and various merchants. Do this:

    Travel to any tavern or specific merchant throughout Tamriel. Post what you want to buy and what you want to sell along with a price. The price to post will be determined by how "busy" it is and also by how "busy" you are as a player.

    More people posting WTB / WTS, the price goes up for that merchant. If you as a player, post more than X buys or sells, then your fee goes up; say 100 buys and 100 sells.

    Do this and everyone can post whatever they want, anywhere, free from guild bidding nuisance and fat cat guild masters. The gold sink will still happily chug along.

    Post where you want and when you want.
    Edited by parkham on April 6, 2017 1:34PM

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  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    EJRose83 wrote: »
    Seriously, every guild with access to a guild vendor charges fees. I don't blame the players for this though, it's simply a design flaw on the dev's part - One that needs to be fixed IMO.

    Most guild traders I know even in the top spots don't have weekly dues. Instead there is usually a minimum contribution that can be met with some combination of your weekly sales, raffle tickets and/or donations. Bids for a good trader can be over 10 million and the people running these guilds have to do a lot of work to keep them going.

    Setting aside the idea of global auction house for the moment, because that is extremely unlikely - instead look at the main problems with current guild trader system:

    1. Cumbersome search process to find something to buy.
    Could be improved by adding features similar to Awesome Guild Store search to the vanilla UI (but make it process search results faster than the add on), also maybe global trading chat channel.

    2. Concentration of a few top spots with high traffic.
    Lots of sales at these spots resulting in very expensive bids for the traders in these spots, with all the other traders generating very little or no sales. The top spots in Rawl-kha, Mournhold, Craglorn, Grahtwood and Wayrest have several traders very close to wayshrine. Abah's Landing, Kvatch, Orsinium, Shornhelm, Hollow City have the potential to be popular, high traffic trading spots, if they each had 6 traders right next to the wayshrine.

    Daggerfall is already popular as it is the starting city for DC with 6 guild traders very close to wayshrine. Davon's Watch and Vukhel Guard have the potential to be popular trading spots as there are always tons of players in these towns. To do this would just require relocating all the traders from Ebonheart and Skywatch to Davon's Watch and Vukhel Guard.

    Hardly anyone shopping for some item ever goes into the Outlaw Refuge because they know there is only one trader inside, and they are likely to have very little for sale. The Outlaw Refuges in top trading centers like Rawl-kha, Mournhold, Wayrest, Grahtwood and Craglorn could become popular if there were 3 or 4 traders inside instead of just one.

    3. Not enough sales slots in each guild.
    Currently people end up having to join 2-3 trading guilds in order to sell all their crap. A small change like doubling the number of sales slots from 30 to 60 (or even bumping it to 100), would enable a lot of people to get by with just one trading guild, and it would help smaller guilds fill up the merchandise listings, making the offerings more attractive to buyers.
    .
    Edited by IcyDeadPeople on April 6, 2017 4:10PM
  • psychotic13
    psychotic13
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    You know if you auction something off in real life, you pay commission fees right lol...
  • wenchmore420b14_ESO
    wenchmore420b14_ESO
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    Nova Sky wrote: »
    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Not on of the three trading guilds i"'m in make you pay anything.

    Are you sure? Next time you list an item check to see what the guild cut is.

    That rate is set by the game itself and cannot be adjusted — up *or* down — by the guild.

    Just to clarify, your "Listing Fee" does not go to the guild. It is a gold sink and your guild doesn't see a drake of it.
    Just like the 2,000gold for a "Guild Tabard" doesn't go to the guild. Only 3.5% of Sales go back to the guild and that is not nearly enough to keep a trader. If 5k or 10k a week is too much to contribute to support having a trader, well there are tons of guilds that don't charge a fee. One of my large trading guilds just recently started a weekly fee as no one was donating freely enough to maintain our mournhold/wayrest/eldon root trader. We had to go to a small vender in Ebonheart for a few weeks and guess what, ppl complained we didn't have a big town trader, so we said 10k weekly fee, ppl complained. Lol.

    Bottom Line, keeping a kiosk, esp a good one is not cheap. It takes millions a week. Sales tax is NOT ENOUGH to maintain it. Period.

    As far as the "Auction House" discussion, well, here it is......
    2mrtukx.jpg

    Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
    NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
    GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
    Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
    "Not All Who Wander are Lost"
    #MOREHOUSINGSLOTS
    “When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”

    _Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)
  • clj94104
    clj94104
    ✭✭
    I run one of the largest traders on PS4 NA. With bids regularly going over (sometimes well over) 6M in Mournhold a week how else do you expect us to sustain it other than a weekly fee? You've got other guilds literally purchasing gold to dump into bids and try and make their trader great so we HAVE to bid that high to ensure we get a spot. Doing it the right way and combating those types of guilds means having to charge fees.
  • stevesherpa
    stevesherpa
    ✭✭✭
    My problem isnt with the guild trader system as much as it is with these exclusive trading guilds not allowing for anyone else to sell their goods. Take one of the "sauce" guilds in or Wal Mard - it would be beneficial for them to have MORE using a trader ad they get MORE gold. But they keep the rank and file out and nobody else can make gold in the big hubs.

    Then, they use their position to bully other people (dare they critique the guild then they slam you into the ground and black list you).
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