ZOS, please stop fragmenting PvP populations

cschwingeb14_ESO · April 2017

CP and no-CP, 30 day vs 7 day, under 50 vs over 50, and now BG vs non-BG

Quite simply, if BGs end up being no-CP, make all PvP no-CP

If BGs end up allowing CP:

Make only 1 no-CP campaign, L10 and up. Without CP, and how good Battle leveling is, there's no real need for a dedicated lowbie campaign where people abuse auto-scaling and gold weapons too beat up on lowbies.

Make all other campaigns exactly the same

Rickter · April 2017

I dont think they intended to "fragment players" I think they just wanted to create environments to accommodate a multitude of personal player preferences.

t3hdubzy · April 2017

I think you are onto something, which is that the current campaign options are not the most desirable.

I think the issue is that pvp player base population in respect to campaigns available and options availa le dont make it easy to provide more options without having even more population issues. There hasbeen lots of suggestions, but i dont think they are ready to make major changes any time soon.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Rickter wrote: »

I dont think they intended to "fragment players" I think they just wanted to create environments to accommodate a multitude of personal player preferences.

Spoken like a true politician. lol Creating different play styles in separate maps or game modes naturally causes fragmentation of the overall PvP population. Although any separation isn't ZOS' priority, they're aware that it will happen. People like the op are anxious because they aren't sure ESO's small PvP community can handle it.

Most people who have called for battlegrounds in the past haven't sought to leave Cyrodiil specifically. They don't have issues with the map itself -- but instead with how little of it is utilized by attractive objectives, how the emp ring is overemphasized focusing everyone there, and how ZOS has repeatedly balanced the game in favor of numbers from patch to patch. People want battlegrounds so they can have a place to fight and not get zerged down. ZOS could have provided that with careful design of capturable towns, IC, or any number of play systems inserted into Cyrodiil campaigns, but instead they chose to make battlegrounds... We'll see how they turn out.

Rickter · April 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Spoken like a true politician.

no, not at all. I genuinely dont think they created those servers to intentionally fragment players. I mean, if you want to look at it as providing options vs natural fragmentation sure! but thats like saying that a restaurant intentionally fragments customers that dine there by offering sweet tea and unsweet tea. It's absurd. fragmentation or not, they werent trying to hurt the playerbase. They were trying to provide options because they knew players would have vastly differing playstyle preferences.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Rickter wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Spoken like a true politician.

no, not at all. I genuinely dont think they created those servers to intentionally fragment players. I mean, if you want to look at it as providing options vs natural fragmentation sure! but thats like saying that a restaurant intentionally fragments customers that dine there by offering sweet tea and unsweet tea. It's absurd. fragmentation or not, they werent trying to hurt the playerbase. They were trying to provide options because they knew players would have vastly differing playstyle preferences.

Your tea analogy is inaccurate because those restaurant goers can sit in the same room and eat together, whereas ESO players will not be able to play battlegrounds and Cyrodiil at the same time. Come June, there will inevitably be some players who favor one mode enough that they seldom or never play the other.

A more accurate analogy would be a restaurant offering smoking and nonsmoking seating.

Your tea selection is more akin to ESO class selection, assuming you only serve one drink at a time.

And again, I don't believe ZOS is implementing battlegrounds with the primary goal of fragmenting the PvP playerbase. They are merely giving us what we asked for. However, they are aware that some degree of fragmentation will happen.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

I would love to have seen ZOS address people's desire for more small scale action, a formal ranking or leaderboard actually tied to skill instead of numbers and time played, and a change in scenery by reworking IC and introducing actually attractive objectives in places far from the emp ring. The district flags and capturable towns are jokes.

Forztr · April 2017

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Make only 1 no-CP campaign, L10 and up. Without CP, and how good Battle leveling is, there's no real need for a dedicated lowbie campaign where people abuse auto-scaling and gold weapons too beat up on lowbies.

So you want level 20's up against cp 160+ players with maxed skill lines optimised buillds and full gold gear because that would be fairer on true lowbies than them facing the few lowbie regulars who have gold weapons and experience with battle leveled gear set ups.

I've not played BWB for a few months but the last time I did it was a well contested fun campaign with an equal amount of the usual PVP rage and actual help for new to PVP players. It would be a very sad day for ESO PVP if they shutdown the lowbie campaign.

Publius_Scipio · April 2017

What do you mean? ZOS catered to those that only want to PvP against those who are lvl 10-49. Those who don't want to wait for thirty days for campaign end rewards. Those who don't want to deal with players with a lot of CP. All good choices to have available in my opinion.

Rickter · April 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Spoken like a true politician.

no, not at all. I genuinely dont think they created those servers to intentionally fragment players. I mean, if you want to look at it as providing options vs natural fragmentation sure! but thats like saying that a restaurant intentionally fragments customers that dine there by offering sweet tea and unsweet tea. It's absurd. fragmentation or not, they werent trying to hurt the playerbase. They were trying to provide options because they knew players would have vastly differing playstyle preferences.

Your tea analogy is inaccurate because those restaurant goers can sit in the same room and eat together, whereas ESO players will not be able to play battlegrounds and Cyrodiil at the same time. Come June, there will inevitably be some players who favor one mode enough that they seldom or never play the other.

A more accurate analogy would be a restaurant offering smoking and nonsmoking seating.

Your tea selection is more akin to ESO class selection, assuming you only serve one drink at a time.

And again, I don't believe ZOS is implementing battlegrounds with the primary goal of fragmenting the PvP playerbase. They are merely giving us what we asked for. However, they are aware that some degree of fragmentation will happen.

ah, touche. I still dont think they were intentionally trying to damage the habitat so to speak but I agree with you on they should have pushed more emphasis on the existing massive open world province of Cyrodiil instead of these instanced death matches.

Earthewen · April 2017

Rickter wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Spoken like a true politician.

no, not at all. I genuinely dont think they created those servers to intentionally fragment players. I mean, if you want to look at it as providing options vs natural fragmentation sure! but thats like saying that a restaurant intentionally fragments customers that dine there by offering sweet tea and unsweet tea. It's absurd. fragmentation or not, they werent trying to hurt the playerbase. They were trying to provide options because they knew players would have vastly differing playstyle preferences.

Your tea analogy is inaccurate because those restaurant goers can sit in the same room and eat together, whereas ESO players will not be able to play battlegrounds and Cyrodiil at the same time. Come June, there will inevitably be some players who favor one mode enough that they seldom or never play the other.

A more accurate analogy would be a restaurant offering smoking and nonsmoking seating.

Your tea selection is more akin to ESO class selection, assuming you only serve one drink at a time.

And again, I don't believe ZOS is implementing battlegrounds with the primary goal of fragmenting the PvP playerbase. They are merely giving us what we asked for. However, they are aware that some degree of fragmentation will happen.

ah, touche. I still dont think they were intentionally trying to damage the habitat so to speak but I agree with you on they should have pushed more emphasis on the existing massive open world province of Cyrodiil instead of these instanced death matches.

I am wondering what the result will actually be. It could be the case that once they kill everyone and finish whatever objectives of each battleground, they eventually get bored. I expect Cyro's numbers to be very low once the BGs are released, but then climb back slowly as they did when IC was released. If you think about it, IC was supposed to be that small scale stuff people were asking for. It kind of ended up a gank fest, but to each his own. LOL I honestly have no experience with these BG's and am curious about them. All I could get out of a guildie that tested them was that they were really fun.

Rickter · April 2017

I think once a "Battlegrounds Meta" is determined, it will be the end of Battlegrounds. I think a lot of hype and expectation is going to go into them and when players are disappointed they will call foul and condemn ZOS (again).

why?

because whats to stop the Black Rose -Troll King -whatever -else -you -name -it Heavy Armor CC tanks running guard on the unkillable healer and dps running poisons and proc sets wiping the floor with each other?

Like you people cant see it? there is a reason the dueling community is just about gone. poisons and cheese proc sets. its not even a CP thing at this point its the cheese-completely-by-chance proc sets!

Thats why when you hear "PvP has no skill anymore". its the amount of pure chance, not skill, but CHANCE that duels are determined.

So Battlegrounds will have its 15 minutes of fame and I dont want to hear anyone complaining. You wanted battlegrounds, youre getting them.

cschwingeb14_ESO · April 2017

Forztr wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Make only 1 no-CP campaign, L10 and up. Without CP, and how good Battle leveling is, there's no real need for a dedicated lowbie campaign where people abuse auto-scaling and gold weapons too beat up on lowbies.

So you want level 20's up against cp 160+ players with maxed skill lines optimised buillds and full gold gear because that would be fairer on true lowbies than them facing the few lowbie regulars who have gold weapons and experience with battle leveled gear set ups.

I've not played BWB for a few months but the last time I did it was a well contested fun campaign with an equal amount of the usual PVP rage and actual help for new to PVP players. It would be a very sad day for ESO PVP if they shutdown the lowbie campaign.

The lowbies campaign is full of people that abuse Battle leveling to get insane stats with gold gear and farmed sets. And it gets worse as time goes on, because the BWB guilds/players amass more good gear for their accounts every cycle through

4k spell damage and 38k magicka and 26k health on my mag NB using a fire destro with kags and rattle cage. And that's without CP

The current state of bind on account, gold weapons in BWB do not make a very good environment for true lowbies. Some changes to Battle leveling might help more than shutting down lowbies PvP

However, my main point was to consolidate PvP gameplay. In PvE you are not required to pick between friends that play CP and no-CP, gear for CP/no-CP. No, for all PvE end-game play, your character behaves the same.

I just want the same for PvP

Stovahkiin · April 2017

Rickter wrote: »

I think once a "Battlegrounds Meta" is determined, it will be the end of Battlegrounds. I think a lot of hype and expectation is going to go into them and when players are disappointed they will call foul and condemn ZOS (again).

why?

because whats to stop the Black Rose -Troll King -whatever -else -you -name -it Heavy Armor CC tanks running guard on the unkillable healer and dps running poisons and proc sets wiping the floor with each other?

Like you people cant see it? there is a reason the dueling community is just about gone. poisons and cheese proc sets. its not even a CP thing at this point its the cheese-completely-by-chance proc sets!

Thats why when you hear "PvP has no skill anymore". its the amount of pure chance, not skill, but CHANCE that duels are determined.

So Battlegrounds will have its 15 minutes of fame and I dont want to hear anyone complaining. You wanted battlegrounds, youre getting them.

This