arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

kessik221 wrote: »

Which class has a 28 meter execute? How about minor sorc for the entire group? Yea to have some things you have to give up others. Thats what balance is. If you got everything then theres no balance.

LOL - All the ranged executes are 28m.
Also, not saying that minor sorcery is not awesome, but providing a minor buff to allies is not a exclusive Templar feature - Sorc can give Minor Prophecy to allies, for example.

Alright, let's rephrase that: what other class gets an undodgeable, unreflectable execute that starts increasing in damage at 40% health?

Bash, ill repeat: BASH

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

give magplars blinding light back or a decent root or group stun...I'm liking the magickasteal, but we still lack quick burst that's not a channel and a proper cc. Toppling charge still is slow...speed it waaaay up and remove the stupid minimal distance needed to use it. Also do something with the "other morph of dark flare" or better known to magplars in Pvp as the worst skill in the game.

It's not useless. I can use it to brighten up a dark cave lol

Solar barrage is a fart of fire. I dont know why this skill doesnt have heal debuff lil

It should give a status effect. Or maybe it's 4k dmg can go through block

_ _
\(•_•)/. I have no idea why ZOS dont do it. Some problems with templars maybe

As an AOE, I can see why they won't. But no one uses the morph because there are other aoe attacks that don't do crappy1k dmg for 4k mag after battle spirit. And you can gain spamable empower from inner light which would also buff up your main attacks more.

Last I played trials in pve, impulse outperformed this skill mostly because it cost less per cast.

It's a skill that was probably slated to be redesigned but ultimately got forgotten about when they had the original head devs jump ship.

LOL you are a optimistic one believing the devs actually identified Solar Barrage as a problematic skill in the first place.

timidobserver wrote: »

I would trade you focused charge for bolt escape right now. I would even take the currently bugged bolt escape. I'll even throw in eclipse to sweeten the deal.

Sweetening the deal? That's kind of like getting a "yes" for a dinner date with your crush and then learning crush's mom would be joining in at the dinner table.

*******

I've come to the conclusion the best templar bar setup does not include Blazing Spear, or Wothless...err Luminous Shards, or either Eclipse morph, or Hasty Prayer, or broken Charge, Empowering Sweep, or most of the other junk ZoS has been trying to pawn on us for the past couple years. Purifying Light is the only thing they ever change I've felt genuinely made templars more interesting and exciting to play.

I mean have you ever used Eclipse and then Defensive Stance and wondered how in the world the devs can't see the latter is 1,000,000 times better?

We identify it sucks. Here's the meeting minutes from the Templar class meeting at Zos:

Dev 1: "it's working as intended."

Dev 2:" let's break some *** that actually works so they can use other skills we can gather data on to eventually break!"

Head dev: "great! Let's play For Honor during lunch"

Minalan wrote: »

I don't think magplar needs further nerfs, but some changes need to be made to the game as a whole.

Pirate skeleton: Can we please bump the two piece bonus to minor protection? This would fix Templars and Sorcs, the set is just too good as-is. Sorcs and Templars are abusing the hell out of it, and it's ridiculous on top of their already formidable defense.

Mist form. Something needs to be done, end of story. Anything non-class specific that's a 'must have' in PVP is too good. Just about every sorc, DK, and templar abuses the hell out of this. Increase the cost significantly, so you can only do this a couple of times on 35K Magicka. Give it an increasing cost penalty like dodge roll and streak with a 5 second window.

Blocking: fix the apprentice CP passive that gives a free crit after three spells are blocked in a few seconds. Free healing crits are BS on blockplar builds. Put a CD on the passive (once per 15 seconds).

Fixed. Not a single magplar nerf, but the PVP game is playable again.

Agree 100%
In addition, the only other "nerfs" Magplar deserves are heavy armor being nerfed, and a few class changes:
Ideally BoL should have a reduced radius, and you should have to be looking at your target, but realistically the reduced radius is more probable. I don't really agree with an increasing cost to BoL unless you give the same treatment to Healing Ward, Sorc Ward, Vigor, etc. I think reducing the range would be enough and would force the healer in the back spamming one button to to be up in front and have a chance of dying.
HotD is the morph I use and no one complains about it so yeah its good
Remembrance needs to be nerfed. Give the skill Major Protection so it doesn't stack with the new Warden Ultimate, Pirate Skeleton, or with the Resto ulti and increase the cost to at least 150.
Purifying Light should only be based on your damage, not the zerg's.
Nerf Radiant's range to 20m at least and have it scale off of range as well as health (at max range it'll do 75% damage, at close range full damage. Idk the numbers but I think the idea could work).

Minno wrote: »

utb99 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I don't think magplar needs further nerfs, but some changes need to be made to the game as a whole.

Pirate skeleton: Can we please bump the two piece bonus to minor protection? This would fix Templars and Sorcs, the set is just too good as-is. Sorcs and Templars are abusing the hell out of it, and it's ridiculous on top of their already formidable defense.

Mist form. Something needs to be done, end of story. Anything non-class specific that's a 'must have' in PVP is too good. Just about every sorc, DK, and templar abuses the hell out of this. Increase the cost significantly, so you can only do this a couple of times on 35K Magicka. Give it an increasing cost penalty like dodge roll and streak with a 5 second window.

Blocking: fix the apprentice CP passive that gives a free crit after three spells are blocked in a few seconds. Free healing crits are BS on blockplar builds. Put a CD on the passive (once per 15 seconds).

Fixed. Not a single magplar nerf, but the PVP game is playable again.

Agree 100%
In addition, the only other "nerfs" Magplar deserves are heavy armor being nerfed, and a few class changes:
Ideally BoL should have a reduced radius, and you should have to be looking at your target, but realistically the reduced radius is more probable. I don't really agree with an increasing cost to BoL unless you give the same treatment to Healing Ward, Sorc Ward, Vigor, etc. I think reducing the range would be enough and would force the healer in the back spamming one button to to be up in front and have a chance of dying.
HotD is the morph I use and no one complains about it so yeah its good
Remembrance needs to be nerfed. Give the skill Major Protection so it doesn't stack with the new Warden Ultimate, Pirate Skeleton, or with the Resto ulti and increase the cost to at least 150.
Purifying Light should only be based on your damage, not the zerg's.
Nerf Radiant's range to 20m at least and have it scale off of range as well as health (at max range it'll do 75% damage, at close range full damage. Idk the numbers but I think the idea could work).

The range will never be the answer. Just think of spambush and you'll get the results; same issue with regards to dealing with it in grouped combat.

Problem is it's a very very effective ranged execute with a morph that adds extra dmg if you use it with fullmag pool. I would like to see some of that dmg get moved to another skill in the Dawn's wrath bar. Maybe changing solar barrage to be a ranged ability that receives a buff? Idk.

If you use Radiant glory, if the final dmg at low health is at around 9k with RD it's around 20% higher if you use it with full magicka bar. That's 1800 added dmg lol.

Ultimately, you still need to heal out of execute range while applying a defense mechanism to make your healing true. Otherwise it doesn't matter, RD or impale or executioner, or whatever.

The difference between Impale/Spambush and RD is that you can block cast the abilities from max or close range and It'll do the same damage. Impale is hard to use and isn't used often in Curodiil (Tbh if you let yourself get to 25 health, you kinda deserve to die if you're ready to go full defensive. From 26-50% health you should still have a chance to live. In addition Impale is shuffable and doesn't go through roll dodge like RD so its less reliable, plus only works when your target is already pretty much dead)
With RD, it is a channeled ability and can be bashed. Honestly I don't see how RD is comparable to spambush when your fighting a group. If anything a close quartered RD spammer is much easier to stop than a Spambusher. Any sane person when they're fighting 3-4 people is going to immediately bash a RD. Can't do they same for spambush so they're ignored.
Executioners should have a good chance of finishing you off but should allow a chance for survival. Executioner, impale, etc. can be missed, Mages Wrath requires you to get super low, all RD needs is a range nerf so ppl can bash it and to stop ppl from spamming from across the field.
Oh and if you're getting hit by 10k RD ticks, then you're in deep execute range already full health RD ticks for 5-6k at best.

there are many ways to stop radiant, just one thing is need: playerskill lol

Minno wrote: »

utb99 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

utb99 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I don't think magplar needs further nerfs, but some changes need to be made to the game as a whole.

Pirate skeleton: Can we please bump the two piece bonus to minor protection? This would fix Templars and Sorcs, the set is just too good as-is. Sorcs and Templars are abusing the hell out of it, and it's ridiculous on top of their already formidable defense.

Mist form. Something needs to be done, end of story. Anything non-class specific that's a 'must have' in PVP is too good. Just about every sorc, DK, and templar abuses the hell out of this. Increase the cost significantly, so you can only do this a couple of times on 35K Magicka. Give it an increasing cost penalty like dodge roll and streak with a 5 second window.

Blocking: fix the apprentice CP passive that gives a free crit after three spells are blocked in a few seconds. Free healing crits are BS on blockplar builds. Put a CD on the passive (once per 15 seconds).

Fixed. Not a single magplar nerf, but the PVP game is playable again.

Agree 100%
In addition, the only other "nerfs" Magplar deserves are heavy armor being nerfed, and a few class changes:
Ideally BoL should have a reduced radius, and you should have to be looking at your target, but realistically the reduced radius is more probable. I don't really agree with an increasing cost to BoL unless you give the same treatment to Healing Ward, Sorc Ward, Vigor, etc. I think reducing the range would be enough and would force the healer in the back spamming one button to to be up in front and have a chance of dying.
HotD is the morph I use and no one complains about it so yeah its good
Remembrance needs to be nerfed. Give the skill Major Protection so it doesn't stack with the new Warden Ultimate, Pirate Skeleton, or with the Resto ulti and increase the cost to at least 150.
Purifying Light should only be based on your damage, not the zerg's.
Nerf Radiant's range to 20m at least and have it scale off of range as well as health (at max range it'll do 75% damage, at close range full damage. Idk the numbers but I think the idea could work).

The range will never be the answer. Just think of spambush and you'll get the results; same issue with regards to dealing with it in grouped combat.

Problem is it's a very very effective ranged execute with a morph that adds extra dmg if you use it with fullmag pool. I would like to see some of that dmg get moved to another skill in the Dawn's wrath bar. Maybe changing solar barrage to be a ranged ability that receives a buff? Idk.

If you use Radiant glory, if the final dmg at low health is at around 9k with RD it's around 20% higher if you use it with full magicka bar. That's 1800 added dmg lol.

Ultimately, you still need to heal out of execute range while applying a defense mechanism to make your healing true. Otherwise it doesn't matter, RD or impale or executioner, or whatever.

The difference between Impale/Spambush and RD is that you can block cast the abilities from max or close range and It'll do the same damage. Impale is hard to use and isn't used often in Curodiil (Tbh if you let yourself get to 25 health, you kinda deserve to die if you're ready to go full defensive. From 26-50% health you should still have a chance to live. In addition Impale is shuffable and doesn't go through roll dodge like RD so its less reliable, plus only works when your target is already pretty much dead)
With RD, it is a channeled ability and can be bashed. Honestly I don't see how RD is comparable to spambush when your fighting a group. If anything a close quartered RD spammer is much easier to stop than a Spambusher. Any sane person when they're fighting 3-4 people is going to immediately bash a RD. Can't do they same for spambush so they're ignored.
Executioners should have a good chance of finishing you off but should allow a chance for survival. Executioner, impale, etc. can be missed, Mages Wrath requires you to get super low, all RD needs is a range nerf so ppl can bash it and to stop ppl from spamming from across the field.
Oh and if you're getting hit by 10k RD ticks, then you're in deep execute range already full health RD ticks for 5-6k at best.

If you are getting hit by 10 4k ambush = 40k. GG
10 2k light attacks = 20k. GG if light armor.
10 20k onslaught = 200k GG before you stopped into cyro.
10 RD ticks at full health = 1k each tick. 10k dmg total of 10 beans hit you. Vigor heals 1k each tick. Lol if you died to RD, time to go back to Call of Duty.

Which of these are worse than the others? .

and with you are close B-A-S-H

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

@LordSlif
RD is in a pretty good place now since the damage reduction nerf, but how can you and other templars suggest bash as a legitimate counter? Its range is huge and before the nerf it could instant tick on the first hit for 10k +. Plus how am I supposed to pick out of a group of people the Templar who is rding me and interrupt them in time? If you don't have cloak or a cleanse then your only option is block, heal, and pray. All that being said since the nerf this hasn't been to much of an issue.

I still have the occasional pug spam radiant at me, but snipe has turned into the new pug spammable. I'm sure it will be raining cliff racers in Cyrodiil come June 6th.

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

@LordSlif
RD is in a pretty good place now since the damage reduction nerf, but how can you and other templars suggest bash as a legitimate counter? Its range is huge and before the nerf it could instant tick on the first hit for 10k +. Plus how am I supposed to pick out of a group of people the Templar who is rding me and interrupt them in time? If you don't have cloak or a cleanse then your only option is block, heal, and pray. All that being said since the nerf this hasn't been to much of an issue.

im talking about solo templars. when i fight against good players is very hard cast RD, they bash very fast or aplly some kind of stun, just a few numbers of players can do it or block he toppling charge too and i respect them, because when i fight against this kind of player even if i lose i feel good cause i know that im better than before i, know my char better than before. they are few but they are very strong

M

Dredlord wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

In the last ESO Live they discussed their buff/nerf philosophy pretty well, and now they give insight on each change in the patch notes.

The changes to magplar...or any class...come from the data they collect on pvp battles across all platforms. When they identify an over or under performer, they seek to bring those abilities back in line with others. The nerfs to magplars mean there were a lot of them out there...not just a few...who were laying down significantly more damage and surviving better than other classes.

I've played ESO since the beginning. All of my toons have had happy and sad days following various patches. Overall the changes help the game evolve and stay fresh, and while I've whined about nerfs before too I've come to accept that they're a necessary and inevitable aspect of modern MMOs.

And I feel your pain...my magplar rules in PvE, then is a struggle and not very fun in pvp. But I'm going to admit to at least a little shadenfreude at the kick in the balls all the beam spammers got, lol. I was really, really tired of the stupid six magplar groups running up on players and bzzzzxt....bzzzzt....bzzzt...bzzzt. Yes, we get it. You all have opposable thumbs.

Radiant nerf was the right thing, i have more than 4k hours with magplars and of course it was the right thing, but the spears stun, crescent sweep and some unuseless skills... why ZOS? What did u do? So please remove the minimun distance of toppling charge, you removed the spears stun i know you can remove this too

This "unuseless" word you use constantly, it confuses me. Is it english?

Typing error lol *useless* ty bro

LordSlif wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

@LordSlif
RD is in a pretty good place now since the damage reduction nerf, but how can you and other templars suggest bash as a legitimate counter? Its range is huge and before the nerf it could instant tick on the first hit for 10k +. Plus how am I supposed to pick out of a group of people the Templar who is rding me and interrupt them in time? If you don't have cloak or a cleanse then your only option is block, heal, and pray. All that being said since the nerf this hasn't been to much of an issue.

Crushing shock/ bow interrupt/ranged cc.

Many people pick the dmg morphs 9/10 times but forget some skills exist for utility.

Those interrupts also work a few other spells that are direct counters (dark conversion, cast time heals, etc. )

RD and dark flare btw

Any channel pretty much.

RIP templar. Good job ZOS good job

I blame @Joy_Division for campaigning too valiantly in the templars name.

LordSlif wrote: »

RIP templar. Good job ZOS good job

I'm just twiddling my fingers waiting for the community to be wrong. Where's that glorious list of moments the community was dead wrong...

*rummages about for a bit*

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

After review; my Templar is for the most part not as affected as I thought but still pretty dinged up. Magic steal nerf hurts a little but we only had that a couple months. Major mending loss is more damaging direct nerf but I'm more of a tanks DPS than a BOL spammer.

What really hurts is major defile being a spammable on what is going to be the next FOTM but that's going to affect everyone getting healed. It really hurts Templar who rely on sweeps and the heal return to make melee possible.

Healing and direct mitigating damage is put on notice. Time to focus on shields and avoidance in stead

Just about every relevant Templar skill got affected directly or indirectly.

And the Templar does not have many good skills

RIP Templar.