update: 2h weapons as 2 set items?

Foxic · April 2017

Do you have any idea how much this would just further make magicka king of pve?

DragonBound · April 2017

Xundiin wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

No. Straight up no. Yeah sure it sucks that you don't get that one extra slot piece bonus but also you have to spend less legendary mats making your weapons legendary so whatever.

Edit: In regards to whether or not they're considering it I really hope they aren't.

I'd gladly pay double the upgrade materials if it meant being able to run 5/5/2 with a staff or bow

i would agree to double the cost for 2H if they leave the set bonuses as they are now.

This game does not need even more sameness and lack of diversity in play.

Every stamina dps build at endgame uses dual wield. How is increasing the viability of more weapon types going to make the game lack diversity?

DW has better sustain in PVE than 2H, which is why it's used. Changing 2h to count as 2 pcs isn't going to change that DW is still better for DPS in PVE. it will imbalance the game making an already bursty weapon more powerful. Making PVP even more of a nightmare than what CP has already made it.

Yes it will, that is like saying all classes that have lots of burst are not reliable for pve. How would it make pvp a nightmare? Explain in detail here, people with dw and staffs are a nightmare right now because of the clear bonuses.

It's obvious why it would. You have a 2H weapon that has massive burst capability over DW and Staves but it's restriction is that it can't use 2 5 piece set bonuses on the same bar. If you allow this, the burst potential of the 2H goes up. DW has always been better for PVE, it will always be better for PVE. it has better sustain. unless you want to nerf 2H's ability to burst in favor of Sustain, it will never beat or be more viable as a DW DPS set up in PVE. Since you want sustain.

PVP has always been about burst. Yes you can still pvp with a sustain build, but it's harder to pull off over burst builds. This is excluding NB's since they break all this because of their passives. And if you want to see an example of burst class in pve vs pvp viability look at the NB. It excels in PVP, struggles in PVE.... do you really need more proof than this?

Adding the current burst plus the ability to run 2 5 pc bonuses increases that burst more than raising the CP cap 100 points. PVP is already imbalanced, and you want to add more imbalance with this. It's not just about mat cost. It's how the weapon skill line works. How it synergies with the rest of the game. Changing something as major as this would drastically change the mechanics and synergy of how 2H skill line operates. And not in a good way.

If they did allow this to go through, then they would have to either a re-balance the entire skill line of 2H which could kill it completely, or change the 5 pc bonuses on gear sets, which again would kill a lot of builds and sets making them less than ideal for anything.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 2H isn't broke. it has it's place, just like DW does.

Except your forgetting lots of builds use dual wield for bonuses alone, I am talking magicka builds here, I never said it did not, but I think your exaggerating, you do not have to give 2 handers a double damage bonus by giving them an extra slot, the 2h weapon is already the same stats as having 2 weapons the only difference it is only counted as 1 slot vs 2, this is very obvious they would not increase the stats of the weapon for having 2 slots use your head man!

SirMewser · April 2017

Rickter wrote: »

They were considering it. It was that whole "Rune Weapon" slot where 2h wielders could slot an attuned "Rune" and gain a set item slot.

as for whether there has been any more news on it: no.

it was probably a @ZOS_MattFiror "we would like to do that but right now, there's no ETA"

No that is not the same thing, that was observed as a dedicated skill line called "One hand and Rune", the consideration they have shared was regarding two-handed weapons specifically.

As for this discussion, no, nothing has yet been said since the Morrowind Q&A.

It's understandable why they would like to make this change, however, let it be in a way that makes sense. IMO, it's a bit strange to have one piece count as two for the sake of "balance", but this is already implemented with some 2H traits and certain armor piece enchants for being more potent. So if it happens, don't be surprised.

SublimeSparo · April 2017

You can already run 5p alchemist 2p veli/selene 5p spriigam/sword singer with a 2h and bow so how exactly would it open up more burst if the 2h counted ss 2 pieces

DragonBound · April 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

You can already run 5p alchemist 2p veli/selene 5p spriigam/sword singer with a 2h and bow so how exactly would it open up more burst if the 2h counted ss 2 pieces

Exactly they are full of it.

AFrostWolf · April 2017

I hope they do it.

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2017

Is it just me or does it seem like most of the ppl here have never pvped or dont even know about the existence of such thing? If you have pvped even for a little, you would know how superior 2h is to dw in this kind of conent. It has a gapcloser, execute and a burst heal - things most pvpers consider vital to any build.
There is such thing as weapon diversity. 2h focuses more on burst, dw focuses more on sustained dmg, bow is ranged, snb is defensive. Every weapon has its use currently. 2h is just as popular in pvp as dw is in pve, bow may not be a weapon used commonly on a main bar, but its probably the most popular backbar weapon for both pve and pvp. Why is that? Because different content has different demands. If you needed a good self heal or a gapcloser in pve, 2h would see more use there, if you needed more sustained dmg in pvp dw would see more use. By design of the weapon and the content, 2h isnt as good as dw in pve. By design of the weapon and the content, 2h is superior to dw in pvp. Both are already balanced. Buffing one of them will make it extremely op in one type of content. If you wanna complain about weapon balance, maybe you should look at snb which provides as much weapon dmg as 2h/dw (though those still have their weapon specific bonuses like 5% dmg etc) while also allowing you to have 1 more glyph and insane tankiness.
@Strider_Roshin wrecking blow is as good as the player who uses it. It is a very strong skill, but requires smart and precise positioning, making it harder to use compared to some other skills, which is why some ppl say its not good. Not to mention, that 1 well timed wrecking blow will do more than flurry spam.

DragonBound · April 2017

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem like most of the ppl here have never pvped or dont even know about the existence of such thing? If you have pvped even for a little, you would know how superior 2h is to dw in this kind of conent. It has a gapcloser, execute and a burst heal - things most pvpers consider vital to any build.
There is such thing as weapon diversity. 2h focuses more on burst, dw focuses more on sustained dmg, bow is ranged, snb is defensive. Every weapon has its use currently. 2h is just as popular in pvp as dw is in pve, bow may not be a weapon used commonly on a main bar, but its probably the most popular backbar weapon for both pve and pvp. Why is that? Because different content has different demands. If you needed a good self heal or a gapcloser in pve, 2h would see more use there, if you needed more sustained dmg in pvp dw would see more use. By design of the weapon and the content, 2h isnt as good as dw in pve. By design of the weapon and the content, 2h is superior to dw in pvp. Both are already balanced. Buffing one of them will make it extremely op in one type of content. If you wanna complain about weapon balance, maybe you should look at snb which provides as much weapon dmg as 2h/dw (though those still have their weapon specific bonuses like 5% dmg etc) while also allowing you to have 1 more glyph and insane tankiness.
@Strider_Roshin wrecking blow is as good as the player who uses it. It is a very strong skill, but requires smart and precise positioning, making it harder to use compared to some other skills, which is why some ppl say its not good. Not to mention, that 1 well timed wrecking blow will do more than flurry spam.

No one, not one person said 2h was not king in pvp, what we are saying is we want 2h to be just as viable in pve. Really is that simple, and no it will not make them op as long as you do not increase the stats all your doing is pretending it has another slot so you can wear the same amount as sets with bow or 2h as you do with dual wield.

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2017

@CosmicSoul ehm.. what? There is no logic in anything you just said. 1st, Giving it 1 more slot will inevitably increase stats it provides. 2nd, there are 2 ways to make it just as viable as dw. One is to give it the same or similar skillset as dw, ruining weapon diversity. Two is to give it the same amount of sustained dps, making it a better version of dw. So no, there is no way to change that, and there doesnt need to be, both weapons are balanced, have their uses, have their unique perks.

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2017

@SublimeSparo maybe by allowing you to also slot a maelstrom/master 2h or a master bow? xD

Xundiin · April 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

No. Straight up no. Yeah sure it sucks that you don't get that one extra slot piece bonus but also you have to spend less legendary mats making your weapons legendary so whatever.

Edit: In regards to whether or not they're considering it I really hope they aren't.

I'd gladly pay double the upgrade materials if it meant being able to run 5/5/2 with a staff or bow

i would agree to double the cost for 2H if they leave the set bonuses as they are now.

This game does not need even more sameness and lack of diversity in play.

Every stamina dps build at endgame uses dual wield. How is increasing the viability of more weapon types going to make the game lack diversity?

DW has better sustain in PVE than 2H, which is why it's used. Changing 2h to count as 2 pcs isn't going to change that DW is still better for DPS in PVE. it will imbalance the game making an already bursty weapon more powerful. Making PVP even more of a nightmare than what CP has already made it.

Yes it will, that is like saying all classes that have lots of burst are not reliable for pve. How would it make pvp a nightmare? Explain in detail here, people with dw and staffs are a nightmare right now because of the clear bonuses.

It's obvious why it would. You have a 2H weapon that has massive burst capability over DW and Staves but it's restriction is that it can't use 2 5 piece set bonuses on the same bar. If you allow this, the burst potential of the 2H goes up. DW has always been better for PVE, it will always be better for PVE. it has better sustain. unless you want to nerf 2H's ability to burst in favor of Sustain, it will never beat or be more viable as a DW DPS set up in PVE. Since you want sustain.

PVP has always been about burst. Yes you can still pvp with a sustain build, but it's harder to pull off over burst builds. This is excluding NB's since they break all this because of their passives. And if you want to see an example of burst class in pve vs pvp viability look at the NB. It excels in PVP, struggles in PVE.... do you really need more proof than this?

Adding the current burst plus the ability to run 2 5 pc bonuses increases that burst more than raising the CP cap 100 points. PVP is already imbalanced, and you want to add more imbalance with this. It's not just about mat cost. It's how the weapon skill line works. How it synergies with the rest of the game. Changing something as major as this would drastically change the mechanics and synergy of how 2H skill line operates. And not in a good way.

If they did allow this to go through, then they would have to either a re-balance the entire skill line of 2H which could kill it completely, or change the 5 pc bonuses on gear sets, which again would kill a lot of builds and sets making them less than ideal for anything.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 2H isn't broke. it has it's place, just like DW does.

Except your forgetting lots of builds use dual wield for bonuses alone, I am talking magicka builds here, I never said it did not, but I think your exaggerating, you do not have to give 2 handers a double damage bonus by giving them an extra slot, the 2h weapon is already the same stats as having 2 weapons the only difference it is only counted as 1 slot vs 2, this is very obvious they would not increase the stats of the weapon for having 2 slots use your head man!

I am using my head. I'm looking at what this change will do to the game as a whole.... and magic builds don't use DW just for set bonuses. DW gives a larger buff to spell damage. This has been proven time and time again, yet people like you think it's all about the set bonus. Honestly... if you think that is the only reason magic builds use DW, then under your argument would be a perfect example of why NOT to give 2H a 2pc bonus. It throws the already wonky balance even farther out of wack.

So maybe you should start using yours.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · April 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

mikeabboudb14_ESO wrote: »

agreed its bit unfair t not allow 2 handed builds access to the extra slots

No it is unfair to allow dual wield to do this then, if we cannot do it with 2h or bow they need to take it away from dual wield as well as sword and shield.

But in exchage they need
Double weapon farm (yes even maelstrom)
Double alloy
No gap closer for pvp
No finisher(cant remember the name right now)
No direct burst heal (to heal you need to actually it a target to heal and the other morph do more damage)
No crowd control
If they plan to do it they should consider guiving some of these to dw

Or remove the 552 possibilty and remove all of these from 2h tree

Kay1 · April 2017

I hope they do it, more diversity for Magicka builds.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · April 2017

Cant have all without giving dome thing to other

psychotic13 · April 2017

No, just no.

Eshelmen · April 2017

Why, so we can have even more OP stam builds? No thanks. I've never ever seen a 2 hand weapon count as 2 slots.
It makes absolutely no sense to do so.

Terrible mistake if this is implemented. There's pros and cons of using each weapon class. And this is a con you must face. There's still plenty of ways to have your gear set up.

An just a heads up, you're more than capable of wearing 2 five PC sets with a 2h. Has nobody considered switching up their jewelry sets to make this happen? Because you can. You just want access to the OP sets, to completely wreck whatever balance there is left. Haha. Nope. Never going to happen.

LorDrek · April 2017

YES, 2h need this change.

NeillMcAttack · April 2017

Currently in PvP, S&B is way over performing! They actually have just as much, if not more burst than 2-hand! You sit in heavy seventh legion, whilst building fury and wraith stacks, then burst with similar potential to having alchemist on the back bar. Claiming two-hand is in a good place right now is actually quite ignorant of the state of PvP!

The trade off for all the survivability S&B offers is actually neglegable. About 2500 penetration..... yep, that's it!! Which is countered by passive increases to weapon damage, reduced block cost, increased resources gain weaving heavy attacks. AND an added, active set bonus. Whether that's a complete monster set or second 5th piece bonus.

IMO this would balance builds far better than what we currently have. Make it happen ZOS!!

DragonBound · April 2017

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@CosmicSoul ehm.. what? There is no logic in anything you just said. 1st, Giving it 1 more slot will inevitably increase stats it provides. 2nd, there are 2 ways to make it just as viable as dw. One is to give it the same or similar skillset as dw, ruining weapon diversity. Two is to give it the same amount of sustained dps, making it a better version of dw. So no, there is no way to change that, and there doesnt need to be, both weapons are balanced, have their uses, have their unique perks.

How exactly would it make much of a difference? Your literally getting the last bonus in a set vs having exactly the same thing in a set with dual wield. And no they are not balanced in pve period this is why everyone who is stamina runs with dw in pve.

amasuriel · April 2017

Overall I think it's a good idea, especially to make 2 handed and bow less crap.

They have to carefully consider what this will do to the already current;y meta magicka builds though, since one of the few tradoffs of running magicka is having to run 5/4/2 or 5/3/2/1 instead of 5/5/2.

Can you imagines BSW + Ilambris + 5 piece moondancer, or even 5 piece Julianos on every magicka build? Be a big DPS increase for magicka.

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2017

@CosmicSoul Can you explain what you meant with that 2nd sentence, cause it makes no sense at all? And, as i said earlier, pve isnt everything. You not caring about pvp/ not doing it at all doesnt make it irrelevant. 2h is superior to dw in pvp, just like dw is superior to 2h in pve due to the design of both weapons and both types of content, so they are balanced. In simple words, a bursty weapon shouldnt have the same dps as a *** dot weapon.

Mettaricana · April 2017

Would love them to do it two hander was so fun but dw has it beat yet it would let me bring my spriggan maul outta the closet for smashing skulls.

Hell we'd be in a great spot if they have us crafted jewelry sets to balance out craft and drop sets. Maybe only allow them to go up to purple to be fair

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2017

Hello, zos, im a pvp only player, and cant help but notice that dw is underperforming compared to 2h. So id suggest to make dw weapons count as 3 set pieces. That would definitely bring more diversity, right?

DragonBound · April 2017

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@CosmicSoul Can you explain what you meant with that 2nd sentence, cause it makes no sense at all? And, as i said earlier, pve isnt everything. You not caring about pvp/ not doing it at all doesnt make it irrelevant. 2h is superior to dw in pvp, just like dw is superior to 2h in pve due to the design of both weapons and both types of content, so they are balanced. In simple words, a bursty weapon shouldnt have the same dps as a *** dot weapon.

There is nothing to make sense of dw is the meta 2h is simply not viable in trials. I never said pve is not everything stop making assumptions you don't know anything about me, I never said I do not care about pvp but it literally would not make a difference because all your getting is another final set piece so your getting the same bonus you would have with d2 or sword and shield. No that is not balanced, having balance would mean that d2 and 2h are both viable in pvp and pve, just because your happy using the same stamina weapon over and over does not mean everyone else should be. And the bursty weapon would not have the same amount lol you have no idea what you are talking about.

FloppyTouch · April 2017

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

I hope not!
they would need to rework all of the weapon skill lines if they did this....IF they are at all concerned about balance. Now there are trade offs to choosing between 2H/Staff and DW. Also, it would have to cost twice as much to upgrade and craft 2H weapons.

What balance issue please explain?

Lynx7386 · April 2017

The tradeoff between dw and 2h should be sustain vs burst, not 5 pc set vs 4 pc.

SodanTok · April 2017

This is NOT balance issue. This is simple LIMITATION.
If by some coincidence 2H starts outperforming with it (remember, alchemist is already best burst set and most already run 5/5/2 with 1+shield) then it may start to be balance issue that can be solved by ordinary means.

Playing Dual Wield is NOT faction. You dont owe dual wielding any allegiance. If you use DW to have 5/5/2 you will get it with 2H too and then decide what suits you better.

Argawarga · April 2017

PSA: Staves are not two handed weapons. They're wielded with one hand.

Marktoneth3 · April 2017

I hope they doing its

Lynx7386 · April 2017

Argawarga wrote: »

PSA: Staves are not two handed weapons. They're wielded with one hand.

And yet I cannot wield a frost staff + shield.