Tabbycat wrote: »

Most guilds seem to follow the general rule of respect your fellow guildies. That seems to work well for the majority of players. Common sense dictates that you avoid conversations involving real life politics and religion. I honestly think if members have a disagreement with each other they should be mature enough to handle it between themselves without bringing in third-parties to negotiate.

- General rule "respect your fellow guildies" is too generic. Notion of "respect" varies too much from culture to culture, generation to generation, and also individual to individual.
- Considering the numbers of guilds that die, explode and conflict, the amount of daily guild drama of all kind, and the incredible number of people who simply refuse to join guilds, or even to group up, I doubt that this general rule works well for the majority of players.
- Truly polite, respectful people CAN talk about anything, including sensitive topics such as politics and religion.
- Calling a third party mediator is actually a very mature attitude, not a childish weak one like you seem to imply.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Most guilds seem to follow the general rule of respect your fellow guildies. That seems to work well for the majority of players. Common sense dictates that you avoid conversations involving real life politics and religion. I honestly think if members have a disagreement with each other they should be mature enough to handle it between themselves without bringing in third-parties to negotiate.

- General rule "respect your fellow guildies" is too generic. Notion of "respect" varies too much from culture to culture, generation to generation, and also individual to individual.
- Considering the numbers of guilds that die, explode and conflict, the amount of daily guild drama of all kind, and the incredible number of people who simply refuse to join guilds, or even group up, I doubt that this general rule works well for the majority of players.
- Truly polite, respectful people CAN talk about anything, including sensitive topics such as politics and religion.
- Calling a third party mediator is actually a very mature attitude, not a childish weak one like you seem to imply.

It's possible that people can have civilized conversations around politics and religion. However, the view points on those two in particular tend to be very internalized and lead to hurt feelings when people disagree with each other. It's generally best to avoid them to prevent that from happening in the first place.

I don't mean it to sound like I think players are weak for bringing in a negotiator when necessary. If they cannot reach an amicable conclusion between themselves, by all means bring in someone else they both trust to be neutral. I just think they should try to work it out between themselves first.

it works both ways, you should feel free to speak your mind whenever you want without having to worry about someone's precious feelings, but at the same time expect people to react differently to what you say

people do need to stop being so sensitive though. i never speak in guildchat anymore because of that reason; i can recall a time someone was asking for help because they kept dying, and i suggested that they probably need to get better at the game

i was shot down and called a troll because i dared imply someone was less skilled at the game than me, and that's just rude

apparently

Browiseth wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

There is no reason to be rude in any guild chat. If you want to discuss some opinion, you can easily do it without behaving like a child, bickering etc.

@IcyDeadPeople there is no reason to be overly sensitive. if you want to interact with other human beings, you can easily do it while accepting some of them will say things you don't want to hear

see it works both ways

There is a difference between discussing unpopular opinions vs behaving like a child, bickering in guild chat or simply lacking people skills.

I think it should be entirely up to each guild to decide how they want to moderate chat. Especially because it's not nearly as black and white as the OP seems to think.

I've been part of both "anything goes" guilds where only personal attacks on other members and illegal or really extreme views are banned and "family friendly" guilds where swearing is prohibited and everyone is asked to keep discussions away from sensitive topics like religion and real-life politics and appropriate for younger members (although that part isn't relevant in ESO since it's an 18+ game). Sometimes I'm part of both types of guild in the same game.

I don't think you could have a blanket "safe space" guild where no one could ever be offended by anything anyone else ever says because, as this topic shows, some people are going to be offended by that requirement. (Also that's a complete misunderstanding of the concept of a "safe space", it's a very common one these days among certain groups, usually those complaining about how they imagine other people might be using the term, but that doesn't make it accurate.)

But for example I was once part of an all-female guild in another game where swearing was fine, graphic discussions of sex were practically encouraged but any discussion of real-life religion was absolutely banned because it had caused problems before with a few members who were apparently incapable of distinguishing between expressing an opinion and a personal attack. Another time I was part of a guild where conversations about (UK) politics, religion, new scientific discoveries (believe it or not that can be a very heated topic) etc. were common but swearing would get you banned.

This is IMO one of the advantages of keeping the mechanics of guilds to a few in-game features - it gives guild members (the leader and officers in particular) the freedom to define their guild however they want instead of being restricted to what ZOS imagined they might want.

Molydeus wrote: »

obscure7 wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

The poll isn't nauanced enough.

It depends on the type of guild.
If the guild is a group of like minded individuals particularly if it is a group of real life friends or people from similar backgrounds. That is an exclusive guild it has a purpose for those friends to hang out together. You can speak "freely" because everyone basically agrees, for good or ill.

But if you guild wants to be inclusive, that is attract as many different players as it can then it needs to be respectful of people of different backgrounds feelings or it risks losing members. In a simlar way most large companies are in favor of inclusivity. If I needs donations for its store, if It needs good traders, if it needs active players for dungeons and trails it cannot be pushing people away.

I'd much perfer people go to guild chats to be terrible people than zone chat. Since this game needs players so it needs to be as inclusive as possible and terrible zone chat people can push away players.

I think the most important thing is how you handle being called out for percieved terrible behavour is the most important thing. I mean sometimes you can be mistakenly inappropraite or misjudge a crowd, it is going to happen. The "Am I being inappropraite?, No! it is minorities that are wrong" type response is the wrong way to go about it. It is your chance to learn something about other people rather than being angry someone made you feel bad about your behaviour.

I think both sides of this arguement is actually the same thing, just from two different perspectives. One person wants a safe space to be what the other sees are inappropraite and the other wants a safe space from people that are innappropraite. When one side gets angry because they have been made to feel bad the other side gets angry that the other side made them feel bad. The only difference is your perspective.

Sorry, I didn't want to have too many gray areas. Polls with an abundance of options tend to lose value in my opinion.

You're asking a gray area question with a yes/no option. That's why it's weird.

I asked a clear yes/no question and provided two clear yes/no options to chose from so I could receive a clear yes/no answer. There is a third option for people who don't care. If you don't like the current poll options then abstain.

As seen from several posters in the thread already, the answer to your question is "it depends"

It depends on what guild you're talking about.
It depends on the membership of it.
It depends on the leadership.
It depends on the nature of the playerbase as a whole.
Heck, it even depends on what your current mood is. One moment you could want to vent frustration and choose to do it in an unrestrained guild. The next hour you might want to relax and take it easy and choose your other guild.

So yes this is a completely gray area question. With inadequate answer choices. You're asking a pretty deep question and expecting a simple answer.

I don't have much time for people who think that anyone who disagrees with them is a snowflake who needs a safe space. Labels are rarely a convincing argument for, or against, anything.

I was raised to treat people with respect. If I wouldn't say something in public, I don't say it online. My keyboard and relative anonymity isn't a license to be rude. I favor guilds that contain polite and thoughtful members, and I leave those that don't. It's really not that complicated.

If you go out of your way to be rude to anyone in any type of social situation then it shows what type of person you are. Personally i try to be helpful be it in guild or game in general.

OK. You got me. I honestly thought this was satire.

Personally, IDGAF what is said. I don't give people so much power over me that they can offend me.

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

We've removed some comments for becoming political and some for baiting. Please keep the forum rules in mind when posting and try to keep the conversation constructive.

Thank you for removing my comments and making the forum a truly safe space. Someone almost got a feeling hurt.

Everywhere should be a so called safe space! Jokes are fine but making jokes at other peoples expense, mocking disabilities and peoples gender identities is not fine - there is a such thing as humour without laughing at other people.

and when it comes to talking about politics in a guild then I don't see the problem as long as the debate is mature and people don't start insulting the other person just because they don't agree on a certain topic

If we are talking about jokes, and just kidding around, well that really depends on the relationship you have with your audience.

When at work, it's a pretty multi-ethnic space, and we make jokes about each other all the time, including jokes about our race/religion BUT that only works because we all have a particular relationship that has taken a long time to cultivate. We KNOW we are only joking and we know that the other person doesn't believe the comment they are making. In fact it is quite the opposite and it is more like we are having a laugh at those who actually believe that kind of garbage.

It's a bit complex, but the trick is that no offense is truly meant and we know it. If a new person whom didn't know us was to join the conversation it would most definitely warrant a tone down in the jokes. They might think we were serious and get offended, and I wouldn't blame them or think they were too sensitive. They just don't have the same relationship.

If you are going to broadcast offensive jokes to a large group, you have to make sure they understand you know the s*** coming out of you is nonsense, otherwise they may think you believe it.