Guilds as safe spaces

Molydeus

There was an incident earlier today that completely blindsided me, where someone I care about got offended in guild chat and I felt simultaneously bad and confused. I realized I probably wasn't a good fit for that particular guild and left for greener pastures. It got me thinking though, should your guild be a place you can let loose and joke about subjects you normally wouldn't, or should guilds be just like real life where you have to check your words and emotions so you don't offend anybody?

I can see it from both sides of the issue, where some people log into ESO to escape the harshness of life, and others log into ESO to cut loose and be someone they can't be in reality.

What do you think?

Betheny

I have a very broad sense of humour and accidentally offend the more delicate and sensitive kinds of people all the time.

Find a guild with other, similarly well-rounded people

IcyDeadPeople

There is no reason to be rude in any guild chat. If you want to discuss some opinion, you can easily do it without behaving like a child, bickering etc.

Betheny

^probably not his guild.

thisisScoMan

I fall somewhere between 2/3.

I used to use guild chat, but not longer. It became a whole lot of you said this, you can't say that, arguing back and forth. It wasn't fun there.

In one guild I was in the people who felt like they were offending everyone moved to guild chat 2. That became the (self labelled) "fun chat"

But then if there was a PVP run or something going on they could switch back to the main chat and it was all strategy talk and nobody got offended.

Sibenice

I make inappropriate jokes in guild chat. It's fun and meaningless. If you need your sjw safe space then make sure you join a guild that agrees with that.

andreasranasen

My guild is my sanctuary. But it's not about keeping things PG. It's about respecting one another and being a decent human being. My guild make jokes, talk nonsense and have fun all the time but we don't disrespect one another or discriminate against someone based off their race/sexual orientation/male/female. (I see this happen in a lot of guilds).

I have a transgender girl in my guild. She's THE kindest person, but she is going through hell in school right now. For her, our guild is her "safe space". A way for her to get away from negativity and discrimination in real life. With us she can have fun and just be.

KochDerDamonen

The space becomes very safe when the offended parties remove themselves from the premises, or lighten up.

That's how I would describe the couple of guilds I'm in. 'Course there's limits, can't just dig at someone with ill intent and hang around. Mean words, not mean spirits. No bad blood or spite allowed.

redspecter23

There is always a line that shouldn't be crossed and that varies from guild to guild. There are black and white topics and a wide grey area in between. Your guild choice should match up with whatever you feel is a comfortable chat level. If you like to talk about all sorts of hot button topics, you might be better off in a guild where those sort of topics are embraced. If you prefer not to be offended and possibly have officers that moderate the chat to keep it clean, then there are guilds for that as well.

zuto40

If i say on crown or around the corner and you dont follow, i will tbag your dead body and proceed to make sure you remember your mistake for the rest of the night, and i expect you to do the same to me, we dont discriminate against you for race religion or anything really except your personal skill, unless youre an argonian

johu31

No snowflake zone. Full disclosure in motd. 100 points into thick skin required. That being said outright disrespect isn't tolerated.

Narvuntien

The poll isn't nauanced enough.

It depends on the type of guild.
If the guild is a group of like minded individuals particularly if it is a group of real life friends or people from similar backgrounds. That is an exclusive guild it has a purpose for those friends to hang out together. You can speak "freely" because everyone basically agrees, for good or ill.

But if you guild wants to be inclusive, that is attract as many different players as it can then it needs to be respectful of people of different backgrounds feelings or it risks losing members. In a simlar way most large companies are in favor of inclusivity. If I needs donations for its store, if It needs good traders, if it needs active players for dungeons and trails it cannot be pushing people away.

I'd much perfer people go to guild chats to be terrible people than zone chat. Since this game needs players so it needs to be as inclusive as possible and terrible zone chat people can push away players.

I think the most important thing is how you handle being called out for percieved terrible behavour is the most important thing. I mean sometimes you can be mistakenly inappropraite or misjudge a crowd, it is going to happen. The "Am I being inappropraite?, No! it is minorities that are wrong" type response is the wrong way to go about it. It is your chance to learn something about other people rather than being angry someone made you feel bad about your behaviour.

I think both sides of this arguement is actually the same thing, just from two different perspectives. One person wants a safe space to be what the other sees are inappropraite and the other wants a safe space from people that are innappropraite. When one side gets angry because they have been made to feel bad the other side gets angry that the other side made them feel bad. The only difference is your perspective.

disintegr8

I am old enough to know that people can get offended if you even breath the wrong way, so I keep to myself. I am in four guilds, two of those simply for trading purposes, but very rarely have anything to say in guild chat - voice or text.

akl77

No matter how much I like my guild and speak and help all the time, there're always going to be some nut trolls and people who just want to abuse other people.

max_only

I'm tired of people using the term "safe space" as a pejorative. It's not clever anymore.

If one needs a safe space to chat about all the diarrhea that runs through ones brain OR one needs a safe space where others choose their words with even the minimum of forethought -- it's the same thing.

Join a guild that fits your personality, be it randomness, or mindfulness, or economic savviness.

Even actual -ist groups still conduct themselves with a veneer of gentility and civility when in mixed company.

The "let it all hang out" mentality is strange on an anonymous online format where we all paid to be here. You could be talking to anybody, from a police officer, to someone's kid sister, to someone with a disability... why put yourself out there as a jagoff with no sense of decorum that makes others uncomfortable?

It can't be that hard to make friends with similar interests......... oh wait,

Argruna

This is my take on it. If you offend someone with a joke, some stance you have, etc it's okay. That's freedom of speech. However that same freedom of speech means that someone can be offended. People cry political correctness, I call it humanity. You cannot please everyone however not everyone should be pleased by you. It's a prickly web of nuances that is a part of life and the one thing I've learned are the people in my life that scream that they should be allowed to speak their mind, being offended is the other person's fault and would rather pull a 'if I can't speak; no one can be speak attitude' are usually the thinnest skinned of folks and cry foul at even the faintest of slights against them. People that demand others change for their needs and not understanding how to be flexible. Boyfriends/girlfriends that lambast their SO for not doing this or that yet refusing to communicate or compromise. People that would rather blame everyone and everything else about the world instead of taking a step back and going wow I *** up. Those people are the ones I've found to cause more drama than the person that was offended.

MaddPowered

Tell them to grow up. If they don't like what's being said they can easily look away, or minimize chat.

andreasranasen

MaddPowered wrote: »

Tell them to grow up. If they don't like what's being said they can easily look away, or minimize chat.

Not enough eye roll to a response like that.

MaddPowered

andreasranasen wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

Tell them to grow up. If they don't like what's being said they can easily look away, or minimize chat.

Not enough eye roll to a response like that.

Tell me that i am wrong.

FloppyTouch

Join a guild that fits you and has rules or no rules.

I prefer guild that let loose and has fun and don't have people that are uptight I game for fun and to relax. If you don't want to be offended the join a pg guild with strict rules where you can only talk about the game.

FloppyTouch

MaddPowered wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

Tell them to grow up. If they don't like what's being said they can easily look away, or minimize chat.

Not enough eye roll to a response like that.

Tell me that i am wrong.

Ur not wrong at all

idk

Each guild has a personality that is cultivated by it's leadership actively or by just letting it be. For the most part I think guilds tend to be respectful of others but there are some that figure everyone takes care of themselves and leadership just lets it be.

Regardless, there are one off comments, either not intended to upset someone or a mindless comment that is not characteristic of the guild or that member. Just like in groups of friends in RL, there is that one off accidental statement that is regretted.

DragonBound

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

There is no reason to be rude in any guild chat. If you want to discuss some opinion, you can easily do it without behaving like a child, bickering etc.

This right here, there are people who think freedom of speech should be about being childish about it, who think its all about their right when freedom of speech is about everyones rights, here is the thing it is not about how insecure you are to where you feel the need to be rude about all your opinions, if you cannot learn to be tactful and socialize like a decent person then you should not express that said opinion at that time. There is a big difference in disagreeing and being disrespectful while disagreeing.

AlienatedGoat

I don't join any guilds.

Guess that's the easiest way to not offend anyone. :P

DragonBound

redspecter23 wrote: »

There is always a line that shouldn't be crossed and that varies from guild to guild. There are black and white topics and a wide grey area in between. Your guild choice should match up with whatever you feel is a comfortable chat level. If you like to talk about all sorts of hot button topics, you might be better off in a guild where those sort of topics are embraced. If you prefer not to be offended and possibly have officers that moderate the chat to keep it clean, then there are guilds for that as well.

Meh in our guild we do not allow political or religious talk inside the chat or guild hall chat but it is allowed in other rooms, it does work out just fine. It has nothing to do with being uptight I have seen guilds big guilds completely break apart because of debates like this.

1mirg

no option for "no comment" huh?

Well, I know when I'm not wanted.

TimidGazelle

The poll assumes everyone is respectful. What someone thinks is ok behavior could be rude and disrespectful. I find my guild to be very free when it comes to freedom of speech, but when you insult someone or act rudely then don't expect to be
buddy buddy with everyone.

rootimus

My guild is for grown-ups, so we're closer to the first option in that we speak our mind, but our members are also respectful enough that no-one's going to continue saying something if another member says it offends them. Most of us have thick skins so for the most part no-one gets offended anyway.

Rainwhisper

I assume the same norms of communication in guild chat that I do in an adult, professional social setting, e.g. having supper with colleagues at a conference.

Loralai_907

The great thing is there are many guilds out there, with a variety of things that are ok and are not ok in that particular guild. We don't have to worry about it really. If you find yourself in a guild that doesn't mesh well with you just move on.

Molydeus

Narvuntien wrote: »

The poll isn't nauanced enough.

It depends on the type of guild.
If the guild is a group of like minded individuals particularly if it is a group of real life friends or people from similar backgrounds. That is an exclusive guild it has a purpose for those friends to hang out together. You can speak "freely" because everyone basically agrees, for good or ill.

But if you guild wants to be inclusive, that is attract as many different players as it can then it needs to be respectful of people of different backgrounds feelings or it risks losing members. In a simlar way most large companies are in favor of inclusivity. If I needs donations for its store, if It needs good traders, if it needs active players for dungeons and trails it cannot be pushing people away.

I'd much perfer people go to guild chats to be terrible people than zone chat. Since this game needs players so it needs to be as inclusive as possible and terrible zone chat people can push away players.

I think the most important thing is how you handle being called out for percieved terrible behavour is the most important thing. I mean sometimes you can be mistakenly inappropraite or misjudge a crowd, it is going to happen. The "Am I being inappropraite?, No! it is minorities that are wrong" type response is the wrong way to go about it. It is your chance to learn something about other people rather than being angry someone made you feel bad about your behaviour.

I think both sides of this arguement is actually the same thing, just from two different perspectives. One person wants a safe space to be what the other sees are inappropraite and the other wants a safe space from people that are innappropraite. When one side gets angry because they have been made to feel bad the other side gets angry that the other side made them feel bad. The only difference is your perspective.

Sorry, I didn't want to have too many gray areas. Polls with an abundance of options tend to lose value in my opinion.