Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

bowmanz607 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

This is not whining, this is complaining, keep in mind that only the people who complain change things, sometimes for the worst sometimes for the best.
People seem to forget that the word whining isn't a synonym of complaining, whining is high pitched moaning, the ones that babies do, it doesn't have anything to do with criticism, especially if the concerns are real and the argument is well put.

People have voiced they're opinion on this and it's mostly negative.

No not true. Many people have spoke up about liking this change. There might be more comments against the change, but that is because many of the same people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Additionally, this thread does not give all the opinions of what most people think so you can't say the response to this change is mostly negative. This thread is filled with the same people saying the same thing over again with new people who comment on thread. Many of us for the change have stopped commenting because we have said our piece.

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

This forum is not a q&a. It was not initiated by the devs and they have no obligation to respond to it.

That said, if you think it was not noticed you would be crazy.

I mean what response do you want. O hey guys we saw this thread???? They are still working on the update and they don't know what they are going to do completely yet. Say they see the concern?? Well many of us like it also so maybe they could say we like that you guys like it?? They can't win by responding. Either they lose because one side is upset to it staying or going, or they say something that just says they saw thread and they get torn apart for leaving it at that.

Get a grip it will be fine.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

This is not whining, this is complaining, keep in mind that only the people who complain change things, sometimes for the worst sometimes for the best.
People seem to forget that the word whining isn't a synonym of complaining, whining is high pitched moaning, the ones that babies do, it doesn't have anything to do with criticism, especially if the concerns are real and the argument is well put.

People have voiced they're opinion on this and it's mostly negative.

No not true. Many people have spoke up about liking this change. There might be more comments against the change, but that is because many of the same people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Additionally, this thread does not give all the opinions of what most people think so you can't say the response to this change is mostly negative. This thread is filled with the same people saying the same thing over again with new people who comment on thread. Many of us for the change have stopped commenting because we have said our piece.

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

This forum is not a q&a. It was not initiated by the devs and they have no obligation to respond to it.

That said, if you think it was not noticed you would be crazy.

I mean what response do you want. O hey guys we saw this thread???? They are still working on the update and they don't know what they are going to do completely yet. Say they see the concern?? Well many of us like it also so maybe they could say we like that you guys like it?? They can't win by responding. Either they lose because one side is upset to it staying or going, or they say something that just says they saw thread and they get torn apart for leaving it at that.

Get a grip it will be fine.

The vast majority of responses on here are negative. I can literally count on 2 hands how
many people here in the 700 posts have commented a positive response to this.

Also I dare you to go into area chat and see how the online casual community reacts to it. I went to every major city in the capitals and the amount of pissed off players was even worse than what I saw on here, but don't take my word for it GO ASK yourself and see what people think.

Also we have every damn right to be able to voice our opinions and you telling us not to you can get right the hell off your high horse.

If you don't like the conversation then feel free to leave

JinMori · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

This is not whining, this is complaining, keep in mind that only the people who complain change things, sometimes for the worst sometimes for the best.
People seem to forget that the word whining isn't a synonym of complaining, whining is high pitched moaning, the ones that babies do, it doesn't have anything to do with criticism, especially if the concerns are real and the argument is well put.

People have voiced they're opinion on this and it's mostly negative.

No not true. Many people have spoke up about liking this change. There might be more comments against the change, but that is because many of the same people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Additionally, this thread does not give all the opinions of what most people think so you can't say the response to this change is mostly negative. This thread is filled with the same people saying the same thing over again with new people who comment on thread. Many of us for the change have stopped commenting because we have said our piece.

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

This forum is not a q&a. It was not initiated by the devs and they have no obligation to respond to it.

That said, if you think it was not noticed you would be crazy.

I mean what response do you want. O hey guys we saw this thread???? They are still working on the update and they don't know what they are going to do completely yet. Say they see the concern?? Well many of us like it also so maybe they could say we like that you guys like it?? They can't win by responding. Either they lose because one side is upset to it staying or going, or they say something that just says they saw thread and they get torn apart for leaving it at that.

Get a grip it will be fine.

The vast majority of responses on here are negative. I can literally count on 2 hands how
many people here in the 700 posts have commented a positive response to this.

Also I dare you to go into area chat and see how the online casual community reacts to it. I went to every major city in the capitals and the amount of pissed off players was even worse than what I saw on here, but don't take my word for it GO ASK yourself and see what people think.

Also we have every damn right to be able to voice our opinions and you telling us not to you can get right the hell off your high horse.

If you don't like the conversation then feel free to leave

Preach.
Most people dislike this change.
the counter argument for this is basically, before the cp we didn't have this, and we still could sustain just fine, but you forgot that abilities cost were rebalanced around cp a little bit, so completely removing this will pretty much ruin bis pve setups.

Virtually no game makes you drop damage in favor to sustain, because it's not fun. If you can't sustain alone, than group abilities should help you in that regard.

With bis you will consume all your resources in about 1 min without any external help.

Also if i have to completely re grind my gear because of this change i will probably leave the game, and i think that many people are on the same boat, Don't wanna waste hours upon hours because of *** changes.

Also it's true that Zenimax isn't obligated to respond to this thread, but this is they're game, and it's against they're best interest to ignore playerbase, afterall we are the one paying money, and after 24 pages of rage i think they should probably leave a reply.

Nebthet78 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

This is not whining, this is complaining, keep in mind that only the people who complain change things, sometimes for the worst sometimes for the best.
People seem to forget that the word whining isn't a synonym of complaining, whining is high pitched moaning, the ones that babies do, it doesn't have anything to do with criticism, especially if the concerns are real and the argument is well put.

People have voiced they're opinion on this and it's mostly negative.

No not true. Many people have spoke up about liking this change. There might be more comments against the change, but that is because many of the same people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Additionally, this thread does not give all the opinions of what most people think so you can't say the response to this change is mostly negative. This thread is filled with the same people saying the same thing over again with new people who comment on thread. Many of us for the change have stopped commenting because we have said our piece.

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

This forum is not a q&a. It was not initiated by the devs and they have no obligation to respond to it.

That said, if you think it was not noticed you would be crazy.

I mean what response do you want. O hey guys we saw this thread???? They are still working on the update and they don't know what they are going to do completely yet. Say they see the concern?? Well many of us like it also so maybe they could say we like that you guys like it?? They can't win by responding. Either they lose because one side is upset to it staying or going, or they say something that just says they saw thread and they get torn apart for leaving it at that.

Get a grip it will be fine.

The vast majority of responses on here are negative. I can literally count on 2 hands how
many people here in the 700 posts have commented a positive response to this.

Also I dare you to go into area chat and see how the online casual community reacts to it. I went to every major city in the capitals and the amount of pissed off players was even worse than what I saw on here, but don't take my word for it GO ASK yourself and see what people think.

Also we have every damn right to be able to voice our opinions and you telling us not to you can get right the hell off your high horse.

If you don't like the conversation then feel free to leave

Preach.
Most people dislike this change.
the counter argument for this is basically, before the cp we didn't have this, and we still could sustain just fine, but you forgot that abilities cost were rebalanced around cp a little bit, so completely removing this will pretty much ruin bis pve setups.

Virtually no game makes you drop damage in favor to sustain, because it's not fun. If you can't sustain alone, than group abilities should help you in that regard.

With bis you will consume all your resources in about 1 min without any external help.

Also if i have to completely re grind my gear because of this change i will probably leave the game, and i think that many people are on the same boat, Don't wanna waste hours upon hours because of *** changes.

Exactly this! If the resource management and cost reduction are such an issue with the CP tree, the easy and more fair thing to do is to bring back soft caps! At least then, beyong a certain point, putting more CP in that area does absolutely nothing to really help you out. THEN, in the end, EVERYONE will have the same stats across the board, no matter what they wear.
It will be boring as all heck, but at least players' progress isn't being taken away and they aren't being nerfed into the ground.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

Nebthet78 · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

You do realize the exact same thing came be said for anyone posting that they are for they change don't you?

JinMori · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

Oh yea, 700 reply, all the same people, give me a break.
Most people do not agree with this change, end of story.

JinMori · March 2017

Nebthet78 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

You do realize the exact same thing came be said for anyone posting that they are for they change don't you?

Shh, logic applies only one way.

The fact is that he doesn't have the proff to say that this thread is composed by basically 4 or 5 people that keeps replying to each other, but he's still gonna say it because it advances his/her narrative, of: this change is good. While most people don't agree with him/her.
If you really wanna back up that statement, then go to the first page and count all the different players that contributed to this forum thread.
We can say that most people disagree with this change, because if you go look at the comments, the ones that disagree with this change received many more likes than the ones that agree with this change.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Nebthet78 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

You do realize the exact same thing came be said for anyone posting that they are for they change don't you?

Really cause what I see is a lot of people for the change have moved on in many respects.

My overall point is people keep saying majority this majority that. We have no idea what the majority is so stop using that. You can say in my experience or many people seem to believe etc. But to claim the majority believe something is ignorant.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

You do realize the exact same thing came be said for anyone posting that they are for they change don't you?

Shh, logic applies only one way.

The fact is that he doesn't have the proff to say that this thread is composed by basically 4 or 5 people that keeps replying to each other, but he's still gonna say it because it advances his/her narrative, of: this change is good. While most people don't agree with him/her.

Proof???? Go look at the ****ingredients thread bro. It is objectively true.

Again stop using most people. You don't what what most people think. You know what some people on theach thread believe. You know own what you and maybe your friends think. But you do not speak for, represent or know what the majority of players want. Nor do I. But I am not blind to that fact. You say that to further your own narrative as to why this change should not go through.

Bartdude · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

your in denial, go explain the change that's coming in any city and see the response you get. I told my guild about it and the response was very negative to this change.

Kay1 · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

See exactly what I said. 1 person days something about liking it and same fee people say they are wrong.

That is this thread. That is why it is mostly negative. Cause same few people say the same thing in a different way to earn his person they don't agree with. Gives the illusion of mostly negative.
You can't say most don't want it cause you have no idea what most people want and the forums are hardly a place to say majortiy.
Plenty of people want the change. In fact vast majority of what I know is people want it. But I am not ignorant enough to think that is most. Just most in my own experience

The Flawless conqueror of vMol is back.

He can't wait for CP to get nerfed so he can finally kill that Stam DK that runs upon trees and 1vX him everyday.

xeNNNNN · March 2017

WhiteMage wrote: »

That's good, but... combat is still better without CP.

Thats subjective.

xeNNNNN · March 2017

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

To be honest, the first 2 points with regen and reduced cost should only take effect in cyro because its needed in cyro but they will massively screw over pve builds too which is dumb.

Warlord change is welcome, the break free cost has been disgusting for way too long.

That last one though is just... urgh.

Berenhir · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

JinMori · March 2017

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

So basically bb hard mode rakkat.
They made this game all about damage, and not they take it away, absolute crap.
Having to drop damage for more sustain isn't fun, what's fun (at least for me) is that you can run pure dps build, thanks to the synergy between various abilities, like orbs, minor magickasteal etc.
Really dislike this change, will probably drop the game if i'm forced to run more sustain because of *** changes like this.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

Stop whining about others opinions.

Kalante · March 2017

This is a horrible change pve wise.

Berenhir · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

So basically bb hard mode rakkat.
They made this game all about damage, and not they take it away, absolute crap.

They can simply adjust PvE mechanics accordingly, though I seriously doubt the necessity.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

This is not whining, this is complaining, keep in mind that only the people who complain change things, sometimes for the worst sometimes for the best.
People seem to forget that the word whining isn't a synonym of complaining, whining is high pitched moaning, the ones that babies do, it doesn't have anything to do with criticism, especially if the concerns are real and the argument is well put.

People have voiced they're opinion on this and it's mostly negative.

No not true. Many people have spoke up about liking this change. There might be more comments against the change, but that is because many of the same people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Additionally, this thread does not give all the opinions of what most people think so you can't say the response to this change is mostly negative. This thread is filled with the same people saying the same thing over again with new people who comment on thread. Many of us for the change have stopped commenting because we have said our piece.

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

This forum is not a q&a. It was not initiated by the devs and they have no obligation to respond to it.

That said, if you think it was not noticed you would be crazy.

I mean what response do you want. O hey guys we saw this thread???? They are still working on the update and they don't know what they are going to do completely yet. Say they see the concern?? Well many of us like it also so maybe they could say we like that you guys like it?? They can't win by responding. Either they lose because one side is upset to it staying or going, or they say something that just says they saw thread and they get torn apart for leaving it at that.

Get a grip it will be fine.

1. Most people I've seen in this thread have reacted negatively to the change. If you'd like to do a experiment, I urge you. Go into game, during primetime hours, and ask people what they think of the change in several different zones and start tallying reactions.

1A. GIVE THEM THE FULL STORY, OR IT DOES NOT COUNT. I dont trust you not to lie to pad the results.

Of course you wont, because your more concerned with crushing dissent and discussion you think dosent need to be happening, but it's a thought. Put your money where your mouth is.

2. No. The Devs have no obligation to respond to any of it. However, this 'lack of obligation' does not mean they should not. The devs have the ability to take things into their own hands, try to communicate the changes, and possibly put this issue to bed before it even hits PTS.

But they dont. They've likely allready decided the change, which is why it really does not matter if they noticed or not. It's going through.

3. The people I see going on about how this change is great are either sarcastic, or allready well off. This is a class war. The people lawding for the change are the same people yelling incessantly for this game to be harder when they need to go play darksouls again. These people who will never be satisfied, who's happiness come at the cost of ours. Forgive me if I dont think very highly of these greedy people.

I dont have faith it'll be fine. I have faith it'll either be the death of, or a step in the direction of the death of, this game. Spurred on by people who allready raid at the endgame level, or people like Alcast who cant understand the myriad of differences between what this game was a year ago, and what it is now. The ill informed and gullable, and the greedy and manipulative.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

So, logically, in order to emphasize said co-operation and mechanical comprehension, they''ll fire the dude who -allowed- it to get this bad, right?

Of course not.

If the content is not fitted to suit this new design vision, and if costs are not revised to suit, then it's baling out a boat with a bucket. Nothing more.

Kendaric · March 2017

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

If that is their goal, they have to change a lot more... they'd need to lower the base cost of skills again since the current cost takes CP cost reduction into account and they'd have to redo many boss mechanics since many bosses require a DPS race.
They'd probably also have to overhaul crafted sets as well (which is long overdue, but that's beside the point).

They need to come forward and communicate their reasoning, including what values they aim for, here on the official boards.

IwakuraLain42 · March 2017

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

And where or when did "they" actually explained that, because it wasn't for sure at this weeks ESO live ? They only mentioned the effect the CP changes will have to PvP.
But as has been written here before, these changes will probably not affect the elite gamers so much (those 40K+ dps guys), because they will find ways to work around it. Take a look at the latest changes that were supposed to "lower the ceiling, raising the floor": this failed spectacularly, there are enough examples of people reaching high dps again, but for the "normal" people (you know, the non-AC guys) this resulted in a loss of dps.

Considering the ever increasing cost of skills, the risen health/resistance of enemies and ZOS's love of enrage timer I can see that a lot of people will not be able to finish end game content anymore unless we get some kind of compensation.

Berenhir · March 2017

Kendaric wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

If that is their goal, they have to change a lot more... they'd need to lower the base cost of skills again since the current cost takes CP cost reduction into account and they'd have to redo many boss mechanics since many bosses require a DPS race.
They'd probably also have to overhaul crafted sets as well (which is long overdue, but that's beside the point).

They need to come forward and communicate their reasoning, including what values they aim for, here on the official boards.

If they lowered the base cost of skills, they wouldn't have to remove cost reduction CPs in the first place. Their fix would be completely useless, wouldn't it?

I think you severely overestimate the actual impact of sets on damage and underestimate the importance of mechanical knowledge and experience.

Furthermore they don't need to communicate their reasoning on the official boards because they already did on ESO Live. We discuss these changes here, that's what message boards are for.

Amayna · March 2017

I think this change is total BS and will cause many people to find another game they don't have to fight the Dev's to play and have fun! I being one of them

Being (mana or stam) starved isn't fun game play

zaria · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

So basically bb hard mode rakkat.
They made this game all about damage, and not they take it away, absolute crap.
Having to drop damage for more sustain isn't fun, what's fun (at least for me) is that you can run pure dps build, thanks to the synergy between various abilities, like orbs, minor magickasteal etc.
Really dislike this change, will probably drop the game if i'm forced to run more sustain because of *** changes like this.

Agree, now if they also boosted damage this would be interesting however the new cp is poison related and wherefore irrelevant in PvE.

And that players using spell cost reduction and then move from regen to spell damage would be very predictable.
Don't tell me they did not try to make an high cp character and tried to min max him during testing.
You don't need more sustain than replacing magic you use.

And yes this hits everybody over the board. from they who are progressing trough MoL HM to the ones struggling in dungeons.

Tannus15 · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I'll just say one thing:

STOP WHINING!

This is not whining, this is complaining, keep in mind that only the people who complain change things, sometimes for the worst sometimes for the best.
People seem to forget that the word whining isn't a synonym of complaining, whining is high pitched moaning, the ones that babies do, it doesn't have anything to do with criticism, especially if the concerns are real and the argument is well put.

People have voiced they're opinion on this and it's mostly negative.

No not true. Many people have spoke up about liking this change. There might be more comments against the change, but that is because many of the same people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Additionally, this thread does not give all the opinions of what most people think so you can't say the response to this change is mostly negative. This thread is filled with the same people saying the same thing over again with new people who comment on thread. Many of us for the change have stopped commenting because we have said our piece.

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

This forum is not a q&a. It was not initiated by the devs and they have no obligation to respond to it.

That said, if you think it was not noticed you would be crazy.

I mean what response do you want. O hey guys we saw this thread???? They are still working on the update and they don't know what they are going to do completely yet. Say they see the concern?? Well many of us like it also so maybe they could say we like that you guys like it?? They can't win by responding. Either they lose because one side is upset to it staying or going, or they say something that just says they saw thread and they get torn apart for leaving it at that.

Get a grip it will be fine.

1. Most people I've seen in this thread have reacted negatively to the change. If you'd like to do a experiment, I urge you. Go into game, during primetime hours, and ask people what they think of the change in several different zones and start tallying reactions.

1A. GIVE THEM THE FULL STORY, OR IT DOES NOT COUNT. I dont trust you not to lie to pad the results.

Of course you wont, because your more concerned with crushing dissent and discussion you think dosent need to be happening, but it's a thought. Put your money where your mouth is.

2. No. The Devs have no obligation to respond to any of it. However, this 'lack of obligation' does not mean they should not. The devs have the ability to take things into their own hands, try to communicate the changes, and possibly put this issue to bed before it even hits PTS.

But they dont. They've likely allready decided the change, which is why it really does not matter if they noticed or not. It's going through.

3. The people I see going on about how this change is great are either sarcastic, or allready well off. This is a class war. The people lawding for the change are the same people yelling incessantly for this game to be harder when they need to go play darksouls again. These people who will never be satisfied, who's happiness come at the cost of ours. Forgive me if I dont think very highly of these greedy people.

I dont have faith it'll be fine. I have faith it'll either be the death of, or a step in the direction of the death of, this game. Spurred on by people who allready raid at the endgame level, or people like Alcast who cant understand the myriad of differences between what this game was a year ago, and what it is now. The ill informed and gullable, and the greedy and manipulative.

Well, I know "the full story" such as that is when the devs are not communicating with us.

I don't think it's a good change, though for different reasons than you.

I DO the CP system at the moment is too rewarding for cp600+ people. I think with 100 warlord and 100 Mooncalf we have too much cost reduction and sustain, which combine to make DPS PVE builds, in particular, over powered. Because sustain is so easy right now, we ARE slotting only damage sets and hitting very high DPS parses over long fights.

I do not use BiS gear, my gear is not gold, I do not run Vet trials, though I am at the CP cap.

What I DO think should happen is that Warlord and Mooncalf should remain unchanged, but Arcanist and Magician should be swapped for Mighty and Piercing.

Put all the stamina regen and stamina dps in the Thief.

Put all the Magicka regen and damage in The Mage.

This would force people to make decisions between damage or sustain. This would allow people to balance their build to complement their set choices.
Hell, this would even allow people to play around with hybrid builds properly.

I don't disagree with what ZoS are attempting to do.
I disagree with how they have chosen to do it.

IwakuraLain42 · March 2017

Berenhir wrote: »

Furthermore they don't need to communicate their reasoning on the official boards because they already did on ESO Live. We discuss these changes here, that's what message boards are for.

No they didn't. I don't know why people still bring that up here. There was a segment called "hot topics" at the end, Rich mentioned the PAX leak and then continued to explain the reasoning behind that with regard to PvP. Nowhere did they mentioned anything with regard to PvE and the consequences and concerns asked here.

Imryll · March 2017

It's really frustrating. As I began to approach a level at which I could start soloing dungeons, ZOS made them scale to level. Now that I've begun to approach the CP equivalent of outleveling enough to solo, they're nerfing CP. I don't mind the challenge of it. I play in no-CP campaigns and haven't spent any of my level 20's CP, figuring that she didn't earn it, but I do wish they'd scale dungeons for folks who want to do them solo.

Berenhir · March 2017

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Furthermore they don't need to communicate their reasoning on the official boards because they already did on ESO Live. We discuss these changes here, that's what message boards are for.

No they didn't. I don't know why people still bring that up here. There was a segment called "hot topics" at the end, Rich mentioned the PAX leak and then continued to explain the reasoning behind that with regard to PvP. Nowhere did they mentioned anything with regard to PvE and the consequences and concerns asked here.

No, the topic was not purely about PvP, it just happened they discussed battlegrounds before this came up. They directly referenced their balancing announcement in homestead patch notes and that this was another step they would take to lower the damage ceiling and get the build system back on track because they want to stick to a game concept where resources and not artificial cooldowns are the limiting factor in DPS.