Hush, I have zero points in Warlord already.

kewl · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I continue to wonder if people are just unwilling or unable to move to another game or if they genuinely believe this slow undermining of core elements of the game without reguard for the consequences is a good thing.

Great point here. I'm not at all interested in going through yet another mechanical overhaul. Maybe in a few years ZO$ will figure out how to make gradual changes. Or their core team will flip again and we'll still be having these arguments. I'm not hanging around to find out.

JinMori · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Seriously...

0 points into warlord as it is now, and I have absolutely no issues maintaining resources.

It'll be ok. You might have to do some thinking, use food, and potions... but it'll be ok.

The game isn't going to break.

Shhhh, it's okay. Shhhhh.

This post is worthless to me because you didn't say what's your setup, for all i know you could be running high regen setups, making the whole argument invalid.

JinMori · March 2017

spectre303 wrote: »

for some people change = forum rage and panic

Maybe it's because it's not a good change?

Avran_Sylt · March 2017

kewl wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I continue to wonder if people are just unwilling or unable to move to another game or if they genuinely believe this slow undermining of core elements of the game without reguard for the consequences is a good thing.

Great point here. I'm not at all interested in going through yet another mechanical overhaul. Maybe in a few years ZO$ will figure out how to make gradual changes. Or their core team will flip and again and we'll still be having these arguments. I'm not hanging around to find out.

Eh, tbh I like that they switch mechanics around. it keeps things interesting.
Also, what's with the Z0$ thing? is it implying that they are in it for the money? cause yes, yes they should be. so they can pay their workers, bills, fund community events, make things like ESO Live, etc.

On the concept of the stamina / magicka cost reduction and regeneration, it seems that for the most part players don't think they should have to heavy attack to sustain resources, which given a full sustain build, I think should be possible. but why do players think that they shouldn't have to manage their resources with heavy attacks/potions while gearing for full damage output? The reason for the resource system and the 5 slot constraint is to allow for no cool downs on abilities, which is a unique aspect of this game. if in the end game it becomes extremely easy to ignore resource costs because of passives that everyone has access to, regardless of playstyle, it starts to boil skill down to who can press their ability buttons in the most robotic and consistent manner.

DeadlyRecluse · March 2017

I think a lot of the complaining is because this looks like another straight nerf to PvE in order to balance PvP--a dynamic this game has always struggled with.

Power creep is real, but nerfing PvE players never feels good--you want players to feel progression. On the other hand, sustain is out of control in CP enabled PvP, so it's a bit of a quandary.

If it were me, I'd start with having battle spirit reduce the values of all CP values by 50 percent and see what that does, but I am a humble pug.

Shad0wfire99 · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

I'm a StamPlar.

I run Spriggans, and Clever Alch. 7/7 medium.

In other words... everyone's assumptions were wrong. lol

So you just hit Repentance and everything is fine? lul

bg22 · March 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

bg22 · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Stop using logic on the forums it's not welcome here.

ZOS have changed something and that means the games dead, no one can complete any content any more and we should all quit.

Word. I'm out! We're all going to be ded moar.

bg22 · March 2017

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I'm a StamPlar.

I run Spriggans, and Clever Alch. 7/7 medium.

In other words... everyone's assumptions were wrong. lol

So you just hit Repentance and everything is fine? lul

I don't use repentance. But yea sure.

Nifty2g · March 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Seriously...

0 points into warlord as it is now, and I have absolutely no issues maintaining resources.

It'll be ok. You might have to do some thinking, use food, and potions... but it'll be ok.

The game isn't going to break.

Shhhh, it's okay. Shhhhh.

Yes because your 1 character applies to every character out there in the game. This is the "I have a sandwich so you cant be starving" argument. And its a fallacy.

this man knows how to win an argument, call it all a fallacy

Mashille · March 2017

Yeah well I have 0 points in having friends so...

so...

(Sigh)

idk · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

take off seducers and vicious ophidian

@bg22

Your getting cost reduction from someplace heir enchants or gear. Without the cost reduction and shards from someone else your running out of stam or doing really low Dps in longer boss fights like Rakkhat in vMoL. Just not happening.

Don't post some lame "I have no points in warlords" thread without posting the entire information that's relative.

Better yet. Link a video of you in vMoL on Rakkhat showing your dps and we can learn from your rotation.

The_Duke · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@The_Duke
See right there this plays off of two assumptions if not three. First you assume you can burst down anyone and everyone in PvP then you assume if you can't well you can simply run away lol. I could throw in poisons but that's situational and not everyone uses them.

In PvP on my Stam DK I can try and burst downs someone but running away would be difficult unless I can line of sight with no DoTs on me so I can use my escape potion. Secondly If you can't burst someone down right well that only works if they do not retaliate so what if they do? You get CC'd and have to dodge then what? lol.

From playing no CP during that week my sustain was terrible but I was used to it since I don't have anything other than heavy attacks and a 4k magicka dump to regain around 1.8k stamina. In this scenario you're most likely fighting someone who has their reduction maxed so they can increase their damage output on you while you will have to break off. Again please provide something credible as I do not believe you would win a fight with someone who has their reduction setup while you do not unless you could as you said burst them down.

Lol. Im only referring to my play style as a stamplar. What works for me might not work for everyone.

During the no CP event I felt stronger than CP. I always play with low regen and cost reduction on all my classes so I was used to the changes. Heavy attack weaving provides burst and sustain since I put my CP into that passive instead. I have access to a cleanse which makes me tanky even in full medium and provides major mending. I seldom have to walk away from a fight unless its a shieldplar or a healplar in heavy. At that point I dont really fear them and simply leave.

Only a fool would think he should win every fight and knowing your limits within a class is part of being a good player.

Cheers! and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

clocksstoppe · March 2017

Behold, it's another "I do 0 dps but I sustain" epic memer.

Mattock_Romulus · March 2017

Just post a video or gtfo

bg22 · March 2017

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

Vahrokh · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

What sets are you running? Damage sets? Sustain? Black rose, amberplasm, etc?

Of course, you can sustain with different sets. The potential issue is universal sustainability, not really "I can sustain, therefore it must not be an issue for most other people".

No, this just means you can't have both max DPS and max sustain.

Ya know... Balance. Crazy, I know.

Could you please link a gear setup for a sorc with max DPS and sustain?
Sucking sustain from healers does not count, last time I checked I have no healer pet following me around 24/7.

Dragonnord · March 2017

No Warlord points? What's your solo DPS? Or you are only spamming heavy attacks?

JinMori · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

idk · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

bg22 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

"You only care ab PvP so *** you bc I only care ab PvE."

Got it.

But... I do enjoy PvE very much so. Sorry I'm also decent at PvP. My b.

idk · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

"You only care ab PvP so *** you bc I only care ab PvE."

Got it.

But... I do enjoy PvE very much so. Sorry I'm also decent at PvP. My b.

Great you do well in PvP but your build would be weak sauce in PvE regardless of how much you enjoy it. Your damage over fights lasting 5 minutes and especially 10 minutes would be low with any half decent group.

As I asked earlier, post a video of a vet trial boss fight, Rakkhat in vMoL and we will talk then. Otherwise your claims are moot.

JinMori · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

"You only care ab PvP so *** you bc I only care ab PvE."

Got it.

But... I do enjoy PvE very much so. Sorry I'm also decent at PvP. My b.

Well if you are running 2 k regen in pve as a dd, then you probably should not even talk about balance, because you clearly don't understand the subject.
Try running bis and no cost reduction, then come here again, and tell us if you can sustain.
Spoilers you won't.

And also, i don't only care about pve, i like pvp too, and many times i suggested changes that would be good for both aspects, of course many other people had many suggestions just as good as mine, but it seems that zenimax is going into brainless mode.

bg22 · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

Vizier · March 2017

As much as I'm not a fan of the 1vX continuous sustain, I'm failing to see where this helps with balance without also doing the same to Magician and Arcanist for Magicka reduction and recovery. Is that the case? I've only heard folks talking about the Stam side of things so far.

bg22 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

"You only care ab PvP so *** you bc I only care ab PvE."

Got it.

But... I do enjoy PvE very much so. Sorry I'm also decent at PvP. My b.

Well if you are running 2 k regen in pve as a dd, then you probably should not even talk about balance, because you clearly don't understand the subject.
Try running bis and no cost reduction, then come here again, and tell us if you can sustain.
Spoilers you won't.

That's the goal. Bring down the DPS ceiling to narrow the divide.

JinMori · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

"You only care ab PvP so *** you bc I only care ab PvE."

Got it.

But... I do enjoy PvE very much so. Sorry I'm also decent at PvP. My b.

Well if you are running 2 k regen in pve as a dd, then you probably should not even talk about balance, because you clearly don't understand the subject.
Try running bis and no cost reduction, then come here again, and tell us if you can sustain.
Spoilers you won't.

That's the goal. Bring down the DPS ceiling to narrow the divide.

Well then this is a pretty stupid change, because this affect bad players just as much as good players.
This is just the easiest way to get out of this situation, instead of making bosses harder they decided to nerf players, and it's ***.
And most will not stand for this.

WreckfulAbandon · March 2017

If they reduce the base costs of skills to pre CP levels then I guess it's not as big a deal as it's being made out to be.

But common, we all know that isn't going to happen

I don't care if end game content is still doable. I care that I'm being continuously nerfed to make up for a poorly planned and thought out power creep. I care that base skill costs went up 2 or 3 times, and regen was nerfed as well, and now they are taking away the crutch that made those changes bearable.

dem0n1k · March 2017

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

bg22 · March 2017

Vizier wrote: »

As much as I'm not a fan of the 1vX continuous sustain, I'm failing to see where this helps with balance without also doing the same to Magician and Arcanist for Magicka reduction and recovery. Is that the case? I've only heard folks talking about the Stam side of things so far.

Yes, magician is going as well.