Losing the best players due to the current end game priority
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Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.Edited by Ep1kMalware on March 19, 2017 5:46AM3 -
GnovakaneSoul ShrivenEp1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
You are saying that without raiders the game will die?
Casual players "doing their own thing" has been the way mmos have paid the bills since the 90's.
For every person on this forum saying that raid content is the only way a game cam surprise is another 20 people who don't ever go on a forum but happily use housing, achievement hunting, fishing, ....
14 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
Less Elitism = More Teemo6 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »ITT: People trying to find purpose in life through ESO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I8ucLNE5WM 1 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
Less Elitism = More Teemo
More team = more elitism. Dont you see the pattern? Also dont put words in my mouth, I didnt say engame is the only staple income. Theres more than that. pvp is another staple. Any reason to keep getting better hooks in players. Casualsare a seasonal flux that come and go, but the're just here to check out the menu5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
You are saying that without raiders the game will die?
Casual players "doing their own thing" has been the way mmos have paid the bills since the 90's.
For every person on this forum saying that raid content is the only way a game cam surprise is another 20 people who don't ever go on a forum but happily use housing, achievement hunting, fishing, ....
MMOs do best with a mix of types. It is why there are a mix of activities available. Zos finally figured that out a bit better in 2016 when they created normal versions of trials so more can enjoy them.4 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
Less Elitism = More Teemo
More team = more elitism. Dont you see the pattern? Also dont put words in my mouth, I didnt say engame is the only staple income. Theres more than that. pvp is another staple. Any reason to keep getting better hooks in players. Casualsare a seasonal flux that come and go, but the're just here to check out the menu
By the by, as soon as you start/join a guild and help guildies before ungrateful randoms you just became an elitest.2 -
Kamatsu✭✭✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
Wildstar would like to have a word with you. An MMO billed, advertised and made as a "raid or die" old-school MMO. Guess what happened to it? It crashed hard, not enough players... and the players who do still play it don't know if the game will be running the next month due to how badly it crashed and is doing.
More store crap & casual playstyle = more $$$ for ZOS. ZOS is a business, guess what a business wants? More $$$. More hardcore = less casuals = less sales = less $$$ = dead game.
Yes, there is a demigraphic of MMO players who play just for Raiding - guess what? It's the vast minority. Years ago Blizzard posted that only around 8% of all WoW players had stepped into the games raids, which is why they were working to introduce the "Looking for Raid" feature... because they wanted to make Raids easier and more accessable and thus get more players into them.
And this was back at a time when WoW was at it's peak with little actual competition from other MMO's - where it was play "WoW" or some unknown asian MMO, or Everquest 1 or 2. So they were drowning in players, were growing and thriving... and had only a small % of their players doing the hardcore raid stuff.
Guess where their money came from? The casual player base, who didn't care to raid or such... they logged on to RP, do silly stuff, slowly quest through the story, etc. They didn't race to max level to do endgame content, or smash faces to bits in raids.
Oh, and GW2. A casual based MMO. Listened to hardcore ppl for it's HoT expansion. Made HoT way harder, and more "smash face just to get to the next story". Result? Drop of 67% income, massive loss of player base and ANet apologizing for listening to the vocal minority whining to make things hardcore, promising to make further content be casual friendly and nerfed HoT content to be easier. ANet as a business learned the hard way: more hardcore = less casuals = less money.o_O19 -
Khenarthi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am sorry that a skilled player left because they felt the game was not what they wanted at this time. ESO has a lot of things to do, bit it is still hard to please everyone.
As a casual player coming from the solo TES games (one that mostly does quests and explores solo, although I do some pledges occasionally), when Upper Craglorn was launched I too took a break from the game because it was not going in the direction I wanted (the "group or die" direction - good luck venturing solo in Craglorn those early days if you were not a skilled player). When it became clear that an adventure zone like Craglorn would not become the norm (Murkmire was put on hold indefinitely), I came back. And I stayed and enjoyed most of the new content.
I am extremely happy with the direction the game is taking. Yes there is released content I will never set foot in again - like vMA, vDSA, or any vTrial, or the hardmode Hist dungeons. I tried some of those and did not find them fun, it's just not my thing. I leave that for the skilled players to have their fun, and boast their shiny titles and weapons and skins, and I will not begrudge ZOS for dedicating time and assets to make that content for people who enjoy it. If every once in a while they release content for a part of their player base, they are being fair (which reminds me, the pvp crowd have not had an update in a while, since duels came out - I am happy for them getting battlegrounds in a couple of months, even though I don't plan on joining them there).PC-EU7 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
How many players have completed vMA?
How many players have done vet Trials HM?
There you go.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!5 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
Wildstar would like to have a word with you. An MMO billed, advertised and made as a "raid or die" old-school MMO. Guess what happened to it? It crashed hard, not enough players... and the players who do still play it don't know if the game will be running the next month due to how badly it crashed and is doing.
More store crap & casual playstyle = more $$$ for ZOS. ZOS is a business, guess what a business wants? More $$$. More hardcore = less casuals = less sales = less $$$ = dead game.
Yes, there is a demigraphic of MMO players who play just for Raiding - guess what? It's the vast minority. Years ago Blizzard posted that only around 8% of all WoW players had stepped into the games raids, which is why they were working to introduce the "Looking for Raid" feature... because they wanted to make Raids easier and more accessable and thus get more players into them.
And this was back at a time when WoW was at it's peak with little actual competition from other MMO's - where it was play "WoW" or some unknown asian MMO, or Everquest 1 or 2. So they were drowning in players, were growing and thriving... and had only a small % of their players doing the hardcore raid stuff.
Guess where their money came from? The casual player base, who didn't care to raid or such... they logged on to RP, do silly stuff, slowly quest through the story, etc. They didn't race to max level to do endgame content, or smash faces to bits in raids.
Oh, and GW2. A casual based MMO. Listened to hardcore ppl for it's HoT expansion. Made HoT way harder, and more "smash face just to get to the next story". Result? Drop of 67% income, massive loss of player base and ANet apologizing for listening to the vocal minority whining to make things hardcore, promising to make further content be casual friendly and nerfed HoT content to be easier. ANet as a business learned the hard way: more hardcore = less casuals = less money.
That's pretty cool. I think perhaps I misrepresented the intentions of my statement. All I meant to get across is that the competative demograhic in an mmo are some the more loyal subscribers/players. They're going to be on whenever possible to join their groups breaking bosses or pvping or what have you. There is of course another demographic, and probably a much ;arger demographic as the latter 2 are part of, and that's the socislites. Alot of mmo players log in simply for the social aspect, whether it's to just have idle conversations in eldenroot or to hang with the guild. This is your constant income.
Everything else is just a dlc flux. New players come in because of the hype, others do the quest and maybe peak at the new trials r whatever. But when it gets old they leave, maybe until next time, or maybe for good. Even if this was the majority of zenimax income, it is also the most unpredictable portion of their income. They can see that 8% will probanly still be there, or that 11% (or whatever) that always plays pvp. Those players don't want to get bored, they want to play, and that's why I have to side with OP here. The game doesn't have to be designed for endgamers, but if they'd give endgamer's a nod or even a trivial reason to replay content then it's worth the while to maintain a % of constant income.
You don't have to break the game to please raiders, tbh if drop tables for bosses included decent mats while last boss vet mode had a small chance for a gold mat. Even little things. It's not game breaking to give content replay value. The lack of replay value I think is the crux of the endgame issue.
4 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont get it why people needs to threat them, just leave the game and come back. Conan Exiles is great for example, if you're looking for a new game. ESO isnt meant to be your life!Edited by Sausage on March 19, 2017 12:40PM2 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭Holy ***, i am longterm player and have 862 CP and love the no CP BGS
Dont act as u would speak for everyone, cuz ur not.1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Based on what I'm reading, I think there is a LOT of people who are going stir crazy... winter blues?!? Perhaps ESO Blues... because the fact remains, we haven't had any NEW content in months and months. With SoTH being the last piece of 'content' added, One Tamriel was just a game revamp, and Homestead brought nothing for actual combat content. So by the time Morrowind hits, it will have been over a year since we've seen any actual SOLO combat content added... with DB being the last DLC for solo players.
I think many of us are frustrated at not having anything new added to the game as far as combat content, other than nerfs and game 'revamps' over and over. This reminds me of the winter blues, where you're stuck indoors for six months or more with the same stuff day in, day out... and only when spring appears do you gain any incentive to actually get out and do something. I think for many players Morrowind will be the arrival of spring... for now, everyone is cranky and stuck indoors with no incentive to do anything other than complain.Edited by ADarklore on March 19, 2017 1:17PMCP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~4 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Have been reading all comments carefully. It is nice to see so many supporting the current situation.
I see many players thinking money income comes from casual player. If that is the case, then I will admit I was wrong. But so far I can say something about two players; This guy who quit and myself.
The player who wants to quit, are eso plus member and even recently bought horse upgrade via crown store among other stuff.
For myself, I bought 15 of the storm crates, I bought a few motifs from crown store, and have been subscribing for as long as I can remember and have a bunch of crap costumes I never use, but bought becasue why not. I also pre ordered morrowind, and so far it looks like a non casual roleplayer actually supported Zos with a ton already, so that myth about end gamers not giving income, are busted
It is recently now that I'm more careful with what I spend crowns on due to the fact if I'm not sure how much I like this game or not. And again, it is purely about the end game priority and lack of progression feeling. On top of this, I play stamina DK, which is getting weaker and weaker with the meta. I'm not complaining about my character not being the FOTM, but the fact that I gain 39 more cp and 3k less dps.
As I stated in my post, a way to solve this is to continue with new and hard content as well as constant and controlled character progression. This way, the players who are more on the casual part but still want to complete the content, will have better and better chance by time. What Zenimax did so far, was increase HP to monsters in dungeons and trials, and if that wasn't enough, they nerf your sustain and dps to keep you busy. There is no good loot on weekly leaderboard or a reason to do scores. They basically dragged out current content for nothing. The reason we are doing it now, atleast over 90% of the reasons, is to gather a stable raiding group and constantly self progression with group compostitions and tactics.
I haven't even mentioned the fact that exploits are not taken care of properly. Most punishment I have heard about so far, is 3 days suspension. Vmol can be exploited, they know about it, and just leave it for next patch. Yes it got fixed, but if they would do it properly, they could disable vmol for a few days and hotfix it.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends2 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
How many players have completed vMA?
How many players have done vet Trials HM?
There you go.
How many people like to run around typing in Khajiit-speak in area chat? There ya go.
XBox NA6 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Based on what I'm reading, I think there is a LOT of people who are going stir crazy... winter blues?!? Perhaps ESO Blues... because the fact remains, we haven't had any NEW content in months and months. With SoTH being the last piece of 'content' added, One Tamriel was just a game revamp, and Homestead brought nothing for actual combat content. So by the time Morrowind hits, it will have been over a year since we've seen any actual SOLO combat content added... with DB being the last DLC for solo players.
I think many of us are frustrated at not having anything new added to the game as far as combat content, other than nerfs and game 'revamps' over and over. This reminds me of the winter blues, where you're stuck indoors for six months or more with the same stuff day in, day out... and only when spring appears do you gain any incentive to actually get out and do something. I think for many players Morrowind will be the arrival of spring... for now, everyone is cranky and stuck indoors with no incentive to do anything other than complain.
Well One Tamriel "revamp" pretty much saved the game. Sometimes those major restructures are more important than adding new raids etc.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.Logicbomb00 wrote: »This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.
im not a min maxer. but i enjoy end game , this game has been so dumbed down to the point there is very little incentive to play. Progression is non existent until your at VR trials. the Barbie doll community keeps screaming for more particpation trophie content . and the community attacks the competitive PVE community with Venom. Its no wonder they are brooding isolationists. the little content they have requires solid team work , skill and communication with defined builds. Ill wait for pantheon this place is a travesty.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.
Yeh they do.
Alot of players play mmos just to smash ***. Without this the game would definitely die. Roll players doing their own thing till they get bores won't pay zos bills.
Period. Less endgamers = more clown store crap.
How many players have completed vMA?
How many players have done vet Trials HM?
There you go.
How many people like to run around typing in Khajiit-speak in area chat? There ya go.
This one has seen a lot of Khajiiti people in zonechat. Once, he has seen a fellow Khajiiti trader trying to sell skooma in Eastmarch. Bright moon! Such a bad representation of Khajiiti people! We are a race of honest traders, we don't deal with illegal goods, if we do we don't advertise it in zonechat! Such an action is giving us bad names!
Besides, casuals aren't necessarily speaking in Khajiiti-speak, they often name their characters "Elvish Presley", "Magic Elf" or whatever and they don't care about roleplaying, immersion etc, they login, do whatever the hell they want (pledges, guild radiant quests, thieving, blade of woe everything, flip market etc) then logout.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Tai-Chi✭✭✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »Have been reading all comments carefully. It is nice to see so many supporting the current situation.
I see many players thinking money income comes from casual player. If that is the case, then I will admit I was wrong. But so far I can say something about two players; This guy who quit and myself.
The player who wants to quit, are eso plus member and even recently bought horse upgrade via crown store among other stuff.
For myself, I bought 15 of the storm crates, I bought a few motifs from crown store, and have been subscribing for as long as I can remember and have a bunch of crap costumes I never use, but bought becasue why not. I also pre ordered morrowind, and so far it looks like a non casual roleplayer actually supported Zos with a ton already, so that myth about end gamers not giving income, are busted
It is recently now that I'm more careful with what I spend crowns on due to the fact if I'm not sure how much I like this game or not. And again, it is purely about the end game priority and lack of progression feeling. On top of this, I play stamina DK, which is getting weaker and weaker with the meta. I'm not complaining about my character not being the FOTM, but the fact that I gain 39 more cp and 3k less dps.
As I stated in my post, a way to solve this is to continue with new and hard content as well as constant and controlled character progression. This way, the players who are more on the casual part but still want to complete the content, will have better and better chance by time. What Zenimax did so far, was increase HP to monsters in dungeons and trials, and if that wasn't enough, they nerf your sustain and dps to keep you busy. There is no good loot on weekly leaderboard or a reason to do scores. They basically dragged out current content for nothing. The reason we are doing it now, atleast over 90% of the reasons, is to gather a stable raiding group and constantly self progression with group compostitions and tactics.
I haven't even mentioned the fact that exploits are not taken care of properly. Most punishment I have heard about so far, is 3 days suspension. Vmol can be exploited, they know about it, and just leave it for next patch. Yes it got fixed, but if they would do it properly, they could disable vmol for a few days and hotfix it.
Thank-you for bringing this discussion-thread back closer to the Original Post. For a while there, I thought I was reading a completely differnt one.
I am sorry that your team-mate/friend is leaving the game and I am glad that you are still willing to give ZOS another chance.
It is true; there is not enough sense of progression at end-game. I have dabbled in trials but being mainly a Solo Player, I doubt if I will ever want to participate in them at end-of-game level. Nevertheless, I believe that every player's area of preference and progression should be catered for.
There were many 'pros' to the introduction of One Tamriel but in my opinion, the biggest 'con' was loosing the sense of character progression and development. I believe that this is a major downside that the developers did not anticipate and if they did, they simply chose to ignore it.
It is clear that ZOS wants to encourage more people to subscribe - we know that from official threads and announcements. Money up front, is money in the bank. Money that should be used to feed into serious game development for end-game players across the board. Again, in my opinion, there is more than enough to do as a casual player. Knowing where to begin, might be an issue here.
Just for the record, I love this game and will be starting my 5th 180 day ESO+ membership tomorrow. I have many issues and frustrations with it as well. My way of dealing with the frustrations is to find something else to grab my interest (in the game) until the problems are resolved.
I do hope that ZOS sits up and listens to the real CORE/ROOT ISSUES in the game and not just the fluff surrounding them.
I feel a song coming on
"When you walk, through a storm ... " Good old Gerry.
PC - EU (Main) & PC - NA4 -
Argruna✭✭✭The thing about that player you lost? They'll be back. It's the same flux here as it is with World of Warcraft. WE LOST ONE OF OUR BEST, FU ZOS... *expac drops and player comes back* So on and so forth.
Oh and WoW did exactly as you wanted with Warlords of Draenor, no meat inbetween just end content....that they had to tune over and over again to make sure it was challenging enough for the raiders, telling the 'casuals' to deal with just doing Arch and Treasure Hunting, delaying the release of the last zone because it was not ready and having to introduce Time Walking just to keep people playing while they fixed raiding. Wonder why Warlords is considered their worst expac to date? It took them seeing subs plummet to go crap focusing solely on end game is a bad idea. Why do you think they are throwing so many things in Legion like the Legendary weapon skins, the tie ins with hearthstone, hots, overwatch, etc? Cause they learned how casual their player base really is.
And the same applies to here. If the Best Players leave the game will die~....Hate to burst your bubble. Them leaving just means someone else will take their place. You linking the videos of your best player? Guess what, you probably just made a few people go that's cool, I wanna try that, will start looking at guides for minmaxing their build, work to get into raid guilds and that will be that. So instead of pulling a Hudson and saying game over, why not actually take someone up that wants to learn and help them out?4 -
Soella✭✭✭✭ESO is not RPG as many TES players think. It is MMO RPG. I am pretty sure that good MMO has place for all specter of players - from RP to hardcore raiders, from casuals with 2-3 hours/week game time to addicted with 10 hours/day.
If one of elite players left - nothing really important. If ESO will lost most of hard core raiders - game will lost some of depth.
It is general trend last couple years to move from catering to top 5% of players to paying more attention to casual players. I think it is right decision, but game designers must somehow pay attention and keep elite players interested, otherwise we will be on the level of facebook social games before we know it.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Based on what I'm reading, I think there is a LOT of people who are going stir crazy... winter blues?!? Perhaps ESO Blues... because the fact remains, we haven't had any NEW content in months and months. With SoTH being the last piece of 'content' added, One Tamriel was just a game revamp, and Homestead brought nothing for actual combat content. So by the time Morrowind hits, it will have been over a year since we've seen any actual SOLO combat content added... with DB being the last DLC for solo players.
I think many of us are frustrated at not having anything new added to the game as far as combat content, other than nerfs and game 'revamps' over and over. This reminds me of the winter blues, where you're stuck indoors for six months or more with the same stuff day in, day out... and only when spring appears do you gain any incentive to actually get out and do something. I think for many players Morrowind will be the arrival of spring... for now, everyone is cranky and stuck indoors with no incentive to do anything other than complain.
Well One Tamriel "revamp" pretty much saved the game. Sometimes those major restructures are more important than adding new raids etc.
This may be true, but it also meant leaving long term solo players with no new content for over a year! This is why so many people are unhappy, because while One Tamriel was great for altaholics and players who enjoy repeating the same exact content/quests over and over and over again, it did nothing for long term players who have completed all the quests and want something NEW to do. Morrowind will bring that, but hopefully One Tamriel was the end of their 'revamping old content' and they can finally start bringing NEW things to the table once again.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~0 -
Balamoor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would like to try and put some perspective on the fallacy that no MMO can survive without raiders .
The projects that I worked on.... almost every time a player complained on the forums that there wasn't anything left to do or no new content.... those players usually had completed less than half of the available content. That was true for AC, LOTRO, Lineage 2, and it was true for RIFT.
Also
Players that created post that basically claimed that Raiders = master race and <Insert MMO here> wouldn't survive without them seldom were actual Raiders, more often than not they were mid level players who were bored on the forums.
But lets say in this instance Raiders are actually complaining.
In all the projects I worked on, and all the project I was knowledgeable of, Raiders were the minority. The vast majority was solo to small group PVE players, followed closely by PVP players and active hardcore raiders were less than 5% of the community. The exception was EQ and WoW and WoW's raid numbers plummeted after BC, to the point that they had to put in a Raid finder and oh lets also look at Wildstar. That game more than any other has shown us what happens when a dev team tries to make a MMO solely for Raiders.
Look, there are many types of MMO's today, there are Raid centric, PVP centric and casual quest driven centric mmos.
ESO has from conception been a Quest Driven/PVP centric mmo with Raiding added as an afterthought.
This isn't a bad thing. The problem has been and continues to be that many raiders seem to have the false notion that every mmo must cater solely to their demographic, and I'm sorry that will never happen in ESO, for the simple reason that TES has a huge following and MMo or not TES fans are here and the dev team has more wisdom than to say "You have to raid or leave"
I don't expect a single Raider in this thread to agree with me, their myopia and douchiness is why 95% of MMo's aren't Raid Centric anymore. ESO is fine the way it is aside from some balance and lag issues, there is a metric crap ton to do, and we are getting the biggest expansion yet in three months. Raiders can leave this game and absolutely nothing will happen.
Edited by Balamoor on March 19, 2017 10:52PM12 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
I cleared every vet trial and still dont care, how is killing a scripted boss over and over any hard lol.
And i dont understand the non sense "but but but ... My DPS will go down!!" who cares lol, its for every1 and stuff will survive a bit longer, dont see any problem with it.
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olivesforge✭✭✭✭The problem has been and continues to be that many raiders seem to have the false notion that every mmo must cater solely to their demographic, and I'm sorry that will never happen in ESO, for the simple reason that TES has a huge following and MMo or not TES fans are here and the dev team has more wisdom than to say "You have to raid or leave"
I don't expect a single Raider in this thread to agree with me, their myopia and douchiness is why 95% of MMo's aren't Raid Centric anymore.
This is a messy truth. Recently one of my friends and I had a major fallout because he thought I was self-nerfing in dungeons in order to help the group try and complete. And he's completely right - while entirely capable of doing all endgame content, I've settled on doing content with as many guildies as possible instead of min maxing my way to some imagined glory. And the reason is simple.
The vMoL peeps, the hardcore raiders, are an impressively small part of the community that often completely forgets how to help others get to a good level in game, and forgets that others might not care how many times they beat Rhakkat over the head. I, and I imagine most players don't measure our success in a dungeon by how high our DPS/HPS is, but on how well the group does as a whole. Gilirion doesn't care that you hit the Valkyn for 50k while the rest of the group died, he just cares that you killed him.
Now, is there a tension between getting a group that can complete end-game content and playing the game with friends. But that's where a decision must be made, and the devs, most of the players and, as Wildstar found out, most gamers have made the decision that enjoying the game is more important than being one of 20 people on a random leaderboard.
So that's why I build my builds and work rotations for the 95% of the time I'm in sub-optimal groups with one or two weak links instead of the 5% of the time I'm in a BiS, fully optimal group. And that's why devs build games for the wide level of experiences people want, instead of the minority that still think this is the 1980's, where your score in competitive Galaga is all that matters in enjoying a game.
Raiding is awesome and enjoyable, and I will repeatedly kill Ozorga in vet just to get my jimmies off. But I also love to head over to PvP to watch what happens when a meticulously-planned 12 man loses one player and then wipes because they haven't planned for what happens in non-perfect situations, which is the same situational blindness many raiders are guilty of. Just because you like a thing in a game doesn't make it the highest priority in the game, and just because you leave a game doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.
/rantPCNA | Aldmeri Dominion
OlivesForge / Swiss Army Templar | Twink of Insanity / Gankblade | Olivesisnotonfire / Annoying Sorc | E. Angus / Magicka Pigeon-Thrower | K. Angus / Stamina Pigeon-Thrower
Personage of note in:
Dominant Dominion | Ethereal Traders Union | Knights of the Istari | CoC | Cyrodiil FG7 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
Sadly, this is becoming more and more true. There is a whole generation coming that doesn't know what "RPG" stands for, let alone what it means.It's a good thing nobody gives 1 flying *** about your definition of an RPG.
Here's a hint for you. It's an acronym.
If you're not doing what the letters stand for, in some form, then you aren't doing it right.
Good thing you dont define how people have fun then.2 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
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That really doesn't matter because he isn't one of the best players. He isn't even level 50.Logicbomb00 wrote: »I have a friend who has come back from beta solely BECAUSE of the thieves guild and housing expansions. He's had the game for over 3 years and is still a level 38 Khajjit Skooma addict with a den now that he can build and stuff he can pinch to pay for his habit. In my opinion he is one of the 'best players' in the game because he's always friendly, always happy, and loves the game as it is now. We 'lost' him a long time ago due to the lack of the old Elder Scrolls feel, but now he's back.
By your logic literally anyone can be the best player , and that is just beyond absurd.
No there is not. I hope you realize how silly you soundLogicbomb00 wrote: »There's many sides to the story, and many definitions of 'best players'
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