Tips for pugs who frequently get kicked for weak dps

JinMori · March 2017

For some reasons i also noticed that people who choose werewolf seem to pull very weak dps, i don't think i ever saw a ww pull more then 10 k dps in my entire game time.
Never tried neither ww or vampire, seem kinda useless to me.

Azurulia · March 2017

This thread makes me want to go into a vet dungeon as a heavy armor, 2handed, werewolf stamblade.

I'm sure I could make it work.

But in all seriousness. Anyone care to elaborate on a few points the OP brought up to my noobish self? I just got to CP and find myself lacking in general knowledge.

Why no heavy armor? I mean sure, meduim and light have obvious dps advantages in passives, but heavy has some useful passives as well.

Why no 2 handers? Is their dps really that bad?

Why no werewolf? On my stamblade my WW is my go to for deeps, seeing as I have all the skills morphed and at level 4.

Someone care to enlighten me?

Ihatenightblades · March 2017

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

The best DPS in the world weave light attacks between poison injection, rapid strikes or whatever their spamable attack might be.

A good dps knows his dot timers and will go through a rotation of attacks that might not be visible to allies due to animation canceling.

Werewolves in Vet Dungeons are not helpful. They cannot revive or synergize ultimates etc. Fearing mobs does not help aggro and is not efficient. They can do great burst damage on a single target, but wolves have to spend time with their face on the ground feeding or that dps is over. When you calculate damage per second (dps) wolves have too much down time feeding to keep a rotation going against a 3 million hp boss. Werewolves are great for pvp applications but do not fit in the dungeon group role.

Two-Handed weapons are great for Single Target DPS. Skilled players can make this work, but suffer in fights where you are in mobs or if a boss is out of reach. Primarily two handed weapons are for buffing up with rally and pvp applications.

Heavy armor is not the best for maxing out dps, but some wear 5, 1, 1, for survival. I say a squishy DPS causes the healer to work harder than he needs to work. You can't do damage while dead. That is why many stamina dps from PVP run 5 heavy. 20k health in a vet dungeon says they don't have as much offense as the guy with 18k if all other things were equal. However, many one shot mechanics are hitting for about 18k. It is a deadly balance that comes down to many factors. Either way, you won't know what armor I am wearing and if I am doing my job you will never stress about it.

You forgot Vampires, do you kick them also? If fully fed they are just like you and I, but starved and they melt in the fire regardless of being a dunmer or champ points. Do not go into vet City of Ash without a full feeding you bloodsuckers. ; )

Me personally, I realize the group finder is broken and I am lucky to get any group. When someone is having trouble I help them if they will accept the help. I have over 1000 cp so I know how to help. I have played every role so it is time to help the new players.

MAKE SURE YOU TRY HELPING YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS BEFORE YOU KICK THEM! These are real people, not Ai and kicking people might give someone a power trip, but how are you helping anything by kicking them? They will justfind a new group and keep making the same errors we all made when we started. Be the guy who helps, not the guy who kicks.

Thank You,

Floki

OP in my post above I asked about vampires. Are they an auto kick also?

Thank you,

Floki

Dude not being able to sleep over kicking someone is a another issue .

I would suggest a psychiatrist that

[/quote]

Where did I say I would loose any "sleep" over anything in my post? I have PTSD from combat and not this game, but thanks kid.[/quote]

Your asking how can i dare kick another human being with baring with them for as long as you do?

My answer is im not you and either is everybody else in this game lol.

You seem

Taysa wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

A console peasant tells others to go play another MMO. More details tonight at 11.

Pc community - bashes at console users for not using their platform

Console community - dont care ..

Nah, sweetie. You got it backwards. See, the PC community doesn't care about your console peasant opinion. That's why console peasants like you make silly threads like this telling everyone they're "triggered" to justify the real reason for this thread, which is "I'M A GAMER TOO WAHHHHHH!"

Pc gamer ^

Wants us to be like him LOL

Bobby_V_Rockit · March 2017

But s/he's correct, bad DPS will get you kicked out. You dont play on a team as a solo player, you need to pull your weight or get booted. Its fair enough, IRL any team member of a sport or job or otherwise failing to pull their weight will get kicked.

Play how you want when you dont impact others

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

While I agree that your examples are very common cases of bad dps, it's not impossible to do good (relatively like 20-25k) in the hands of an experienced player with heavy armor, 2H weapons, etc.

But an experienced player would never wear heavy armour with a 2-hander in PvE.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

Valera Progib wrote: »

Don't tell people what to do and they will not tell you where to go.

You really should calm down with this elitism. People can run around in 7 heavy to level it up, nobody needs approval from someone like you.

Get real.

Just like they can continue to be kicked.

Lol at all the people so hurt over op post. Atleast he took the time to go through and list all the things you shouldn't be doing in a normal dungeon.

They should really place that list in game before you enter a vet dungeon. The number of people spamming poison inject and light attacks with a bow is at an all time high currently, on xbox na group finder anyways.

It is not ok to enter dungeons and expect others to pick up your slack. People should l2p before entering group content.

If you select a role you should be able to fulfill that role, completely. So if you select dps then you should carry your own weight. If you select tank you should be able to tank. If you select healer you should be keeping everyone alive.

As a dps I shouldn't have to pick up the slack healing others, kill bosses by myself, or have to kite the boss because your aren't taunting them. Some would have you believe that group finder is only for new people but I feel if that was the case you wouldn't be able to kick people and there wouldn't be a 15 minute timer.

Just don't select roles you can't fulfil. If you can't fulfil any then l2p. It's the cold hard truth.

There is plenty of content to l2p. Group content where you effect other random people's game is NOT where you learn.

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

Indigochild3rdi wrote: »

Lol this thread is ridiculous. "You gotta max out your dps and look up elite builds on google and you got to make sure you're the best ever instead of just enjoying the game. Grind, remove all fun you are currently having and be rude to noobs". That's all I'm seeing

That's not what OP said. The builds/playstyles in the OP are legitimately terrible (yet popular, for whatever reason). You can craft a set of DPS gear, no need to grind, and still pull close to maximum DPS.

All OP is asking is for people to not do stupid *** when queuing for vet dungeons. It wastes everyone's time.

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

tist wrote: »

2h is fine if you have the aoe execute. Even single target I get 25k pretty easily which is more than most of the people you end up grouping with.

Thats true to a certain extent.I pull good numbers and often group with a friend anyway. Honestly as long as the tank doesnt run around with the boss everything is peachy. I hsvent kicked ppl for dps since wgt was new.

Everstorm · March 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

And its always no hard feelings when we kick someone hopefully they learn a lesson on why they got kicked

Do you tell them why and give advice or just kick them without explanation and hope they figure it out?

Yes i always tell them the truth

"You're Dps stinks bud gotta move on"

Let me repeat myself: Do you tell them why and give advice or just kick them without explanation and hope they figure it out?

Your answer points to "No I don't tell them why, I just hope they figure it out"

Can you not read?

I tell them their dps stinks. For the second time

Ok ok...so...if you've got a friend that has really bad halitosis...

If you say, 'Dude, your breath reeks!' ...that's something...BUT, if you say 'Dude, your breath reeks, and you should try these uber-awesome mints I found, they really help,' that is called giving advice.

Make sense?

Makes total sense thats why im trying to help people unlike you trying to baby them

Like grow up we arent kids this game is for 18 and up if you cant handle adults telling you what you are doing wrong or in your case if you just baby them all the time and say just play for fun you arent helping at all.

But you're not actually helping anybody by simply kicking them and then crying on the forums about it. He's asking you what actually proactive steps you are taking in order to fix the problem of bad players.

I stated in the OP that you can look up builds and tips from pros on youtube etc...

I gave examples of why I WOULD kick someone and i gave tips on how to fix that including doing your own research.

And i had a great time

What you fail to understand is that your tone rubs ppl the wrong way. I actually learned a thing or two from this thread but in general when ppl throw around "lolz", "triggered" or "ltp" I just stop reading. Nobody cares for a condescending attitude.

Messy1 · March 2017

You sir are an ***

seaef · March 2017

Thanks for the heads up.

Can't wait to get into a group with you. I'll play the way you want until the final boss. Then I'll do everything in my power to wipe the group.

Now that's what I call FUN!!!

raglau · March 2017

Azurulia wrote: »

Why no heavy armor? I mean sure, meduim and light have obvious dps advantages in passives, but heavy has some useful passives as well.

Why no 2 handers? Is their dps really that bad?

Why no werewolf? On my stamblade my WW is my go to for deeps, seeing as I have all the skills morphed and at level 4.

Someone care to enlighten me?

Heavy armour passives are all around survivability; blocking, recovery etc. Medium and light are around damage. 2 handed weapon, well they tried to make it viable it seems but it simply does not have the burst damage of DW. Werewolf is just meh in terms of damage output, it's more a fun little RP thing. I have a WW char that I tried, suffice to say he has no points in WW now and will get cured when I remember...

I'd never kick anyone for these traits in normal content, but the OP is right, in vet content you're liable to get kicked. Reason being if it's a pledge then generally we want HM, and HM is a boring slog if the damage is not decent, if it's not a pledge then we're just running a random or farming jewellery so we don't want low DPS players holding up content that most players know like the back of their hand now and are just usually looking to get through ASAP. There's a team spirit thing to this too, someone may think their 2H/heavy/WW char is fun, but it puts more pressure on the other DPS which is unfair. And particularly long fights due to weak DPS put more resource management pressure on the tank and healer.

As a tank, I'd personally wait to see how the team deals with the first boss and then I don't usually kick unless I am with a friend and need to keep us in the team together. What I do is say something like, "DPS seems a tad low, can we resolve this please?". In case someone has forgotten to change their gear set from PvP or something, but if there's no coherent response that will clearly improve things (and so many people seem to ignore chat nowadays) then I just drop group.

So whilst the OP is likely being deliberately inflammatory in tone, he does make valid points. I just feel there are more polite ways of dealing with these issues, that give people a chance to learn and improve.

Joy_Division · March 2017

I hope I get qued in the OP's next PUG group.

<-- Has a disguise and wears heavy armor underneath

Pops_ND_Irish · March 2017

What a tool !

I do pretty well as a dual weld/bow dps with 5 heavy/2 medium.

My guild doesnt complain.

I am just glad he is so good that he feels the need to kick someone instead of helping.

probably some 12 yr old on mommy and daddy"s PC in the basement.

Zypheran · March 2017

Don't people recognise click bait when they see it!?

Banana · March 2017

If your abit *** like me. Roll a tank for group activities.

notimetocare · March 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Things that will get you kicked by group members ( INCLUDING ME )

***Edit - No need to be triggered this is simply for people who dont know why they are getting kicked and would like not to get kicked
Anymore ***

1. Make sure to set your group role to what you actually do.
2. DO NOT COME IN WITH HEAVY ARMOR IF YOUR A DPS
3. DO NOT USE A 2 hander in vet dungeons
4. DO NOT SPAM LIGHT ATTACKS AND POISON INJECTION WITH YOUR BOW
5.DO NOT GO WEREWOLF FORM IN VET DUNGEONS AROUND ME

Those 5 actions above will get you kicked in no time by a lot of people including me

Im a nice guy but i dont got time to be sitting there watching u spam light attacks with a bow or sit there with your 23k health heavy armor dps LOL.

My last advice is to look up dps builds if you are new and struggling. There is no need to try to struggle with a weak dps build dps is very easy to pull off.

And its always no hard feelings when we kick someone hopefully they learn a lesson on why they got kicked

TL;DR: we are *** and you should learn from us being *** because we are the best

basketcaseNZ · March 2017

I'm fairly rubbish and I've not been kicked so far. I seem to be punching way below my level for some reason. I'm always lagging behind because I actually stop and listen to the NPCs. I lurk on the very fringe of the battle, like literally as far away as I can get sniping with my bow, and if something actually comes at me I run away, and when I get new gear I just have to stop and try it on. Oh and I quite often get lost.

I'm new to the game, and very new to grouping and those things you mentioned seem fairly trivial, or I've just been, thankfully, lucky with the people I've been grouped with. I will say I did leave a group once because they kept accusing me of setting things off before everyone was ready, in Craglorn, even though I was just standing there! Honest!

Can someone enlighten me as to the problem wearing heavy armour if you're DPS? I thought armour weight was more or less cosmetic. Like I said I'm new.

raglau · March 2017

basketcaseNZ wrote: »

Can someone enlighten me as to the problem wearing heavy armour if you're DPS? I thought armour weight was more or less cosmetic. Like I said I'm new.

Most people won't kick you in 4 man content, even vet, for lagging behind, they may take issue with low DPS however, mainly because ESO dungeons are boring at the best of times so people try to quickly get them out of the way. I'll leave a team that's weak if I don't think they can finish content in a timely manner, but usually I won't kick anyone. After all, if they are not performing to a standard I have internally set, then I can go form a team to that standard.

Anyway, if you look at the heavy armour skill line, the passives are all about survival, so blocking, recovery, mitigation. If you look at the passives for light and medium they are about damage and critical hits. This is typical RPG design and all stems from the daddy of them all, D&D, where heavy armour can take the hits but it's the rogue and mage classes who deal the big damage but are made to wear light armour to operate.

ynimma · March 2017

I'd like to see a group finding system which cares for separating these two playstyles: the fun and challenge based play from the soulless performance based one.
It is not new, some players can convert any GAME into a hardcore workplace in a heartbeat because that's possibly the way they've been conditioned in real life and if they do that long enough, they'll be prone to belive that it's fun.

I respect this performance based attitude, I'm a great suporter of let everyone enjoy the game as they wish, I just would like to have a proper tool in game to avoid the mindset which does not make my game fun the way I'd like to play.
If we could manage to separate these mainstream attitudes in real life too, I'm sure world peace would not be far to follow.

Johngo0036 · March 2017

As a bow user in dungeons there are only 2 skill to use,

Endless Hail,
poison Injection,

Not Spammed either,
Use them and then change to the proper DPS bar...

MakoFore · March 2017

i use a 2hand and bow all the time in vet dungeons, I've done vma with a 2hand and bow with my DK and my Stam sorc . its not as efficient as a dual wield- but i get bored and i enjoy playing with it. it gets the job done, nobody complained yet. of course if i see someone doing it who dosent know how to weave or do decent damage it might irk me but i wouldn't kick someone for it. its a game after all and i consider myself capable of carrying most pugs with the exception of the DLC dungeons, those have to be approached differently .

Fudly_budly · March 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

If u want to run through content with good players and carry you're own weight you should take more time on you're build and it will be worth it

Lol cheers

You've been told once and yet you keep spamming "you're." I would suggest less game time might help your comprehension of the proper forms of the pronoun you. Might start with that dust covered grammar textbook. LOL and no hard feelings. Just trying to give you some real life advice. "It will be worth it.

"

GreenhaloX · March 2017

What platform do you play in? Also, your in-game name and/or ID, if you would. This is so, if I get the crown, I know to kick you instantly or when I don't have the crown and queue into your group, I know to leave immediately. Don't take this in the wrong way. This is just a sure way that both of our dungeon experiences, or any other contents within ESO, won't be so negative. You play your way, and I'll play mine.. that's all.

Lexynide · March 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Console community - dont care ..

Two words: Harvestmap Addon

GreenhaloX · March 2017

praglaud wrote: »

basketcaseNZ wrote: »

Can someone enlighten me as to the problem wearing heavy armour if you're DPS? I thought armour weight was more or less cosmetic. Like I said I'm new.

Most people won't kick you in 4 man content, even vet, for lagging behind, they may take issue with low DPS however, mainly because ESO dungeons are boring at the best of times so people try to quickly get them out of the way. I'll leave a team that's weak if I don't think they can finish content in a timely manner, but usually I won't kick anyone. After all, if they are not performing to a standard I have internally set, then I can go form a team to that standard.

Anyway, if you look at the heavy armour skill line, the passives are all about survival, so blocking, recovery, mitigation. If you look at the passives for light and medium they are about damage and critical hits. This is typical RPG design and all stems from the daddy of them all, D&D, where heavy armour can take the hits but it's the rogue and mage classes who deal the big damage but are made to wear light armour to operate.

Well, if you're high enough, you can practically solo all normal dungeons and "certain" vet dungeons. I like to solo those dungeons and other PvE land contents, like world bosses. I have both HA-based and medium-based build, and yes, you do get a bit more overall weapon damages from the medium armor passive, but, I fair better soloing those contents with my HA build. The HA build gets more health-focus and resistance. Plus, my weapon damage isn't too far off, especially, if I use a 5-piece set that proc extra 600 or so weapon damages. Medium-based toons are great in group because they can dps fast and don't have to worry about dying when they are being healed by the healer. However, solely against certain bosses or dungeons, I think they are squishier. So, if they are dying, they can't dps, and the boss will reset each time. HA-based build enables you to have that survivability while still dishing out decent dps. Not saying a medium-based dps can't solo. I'm sure there are those that are skilled and experienced enough to tackle even the vet dungeons, but for me, I fair better with my HA build.

raglau · March 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

praglaud wrote: »

basketcaseNZ wrote: »

Can someone enlighten me as to the problem wearing heavy armour if you're DPS? I thought armour weight was more or less cosmetic. Like I said I'm new.

Most people won't kick you in 4 man content, even vet, for lagging behind, they may take issue with low DPS however, mainly because ESO dungeons are boring at the best of times so people try to quickly get them out of the way. I'll leave a team that's weak if I don't think they can finish content in a timely manner, but usually I won't kick anyone. After all, if they are not performing to a standard I have internally set, then I can go form a team to that standard.

Anyway, if you look at the heavy armour skill line, the passives are all about survival, so blocking, recovery, mitigation. If you look at the passives for light and medium they are about damage and critical hits. This is typical RPG design and all stems from the daddy of them all, D&D, where heavy armour can take the hits but it's the rogue and mage classes who deal the big damage but are made to wear light armour to operate.

Well, if you're high enough, you can practically solo all normal dungeons and "certain" vet dungeons. I like to solo those dungeons and other PvE land contents, like world bosses. I have both HA-based and medium-based build, and yes, you do get a bit more overall weapon damages from the medium armor passive, but, I fair better soloing those contents with my HA build. The HA build gets more health-focus and resistance. Plus, my weapon damage isn't too far off, especially, if I use a 5-piece set that proc extra 600 or so weapon damages. Medium-based toons are great in group because they can dps fast and don't have to worry about dying when they are being healed by the healer. However, solely against certain bosses or dungeons, I think they are squishier. So, if they are dying, they can't dps, and the boss will reset each time. HA-based build enables you to have that survivability while still dishing out decent dps. Not saying a medium-based dps can't solo. I'm sure there are those that are skilled and experienced enough to tackle even the vet dungeons, but for me, I fair better with my HA build.

I absolutely agree, and I like to solo a lot of group content myself. But when I do that, I change my build significantly to give some survivability, because, as you note, a medium build is squishy. But that does not matter when you're in a group playing just DD as you do not need to step in the red to get the job done. Solo you do as you're the sole engager of the boss so get put in more dangerous scenarios, so you need to be able to take that. Any DD dying repeatedly in a group scenario is not paying attention.

BUT... I'd never inflict that solo build on my fellow group members when I'm not soloing, so I just switch out to my medium gear with traits and enchants geared solely to cause maximum damage. ESO is great in that you can have many different builds available based purely on gear and switch them at the drop of a hat. My main NB DD is Gilliam's build for high DPS and can DPS any content in the game (vet trials he is not up there with the mag chars of course) but with a click of Wykkid's he can sap-tank all vet content apart from DLC, then get through vMA. So there's really no reason to drag a group down by wearing heavy armour with a 2H weapon if you're queuing as a DD. Once you've got all the skill points you can pretty much max out all skill trees and swap roles at the drop of a hat (or the click of a mouse).

bg22 · March 2017

I agree...

Hell, I've been in fungal grotto II NORMAL and died bc the other DPS couldn't kill the adds that pin you to the ground, fast enough. I don't understand... I two shot them and am by no means set up for elite endgame DPS. I think I would have to try pretty hard to hit that soft.

Stovahkiin · March 2017

OP needs a box of tissues I think. Don't worry OP, I'll get some for you before your mom drives you to school this morning!

Bouldercleave · March 2017

If I have to look up You Tube videos and research how to maximize my character so I don't get kicked and "waste everyone's time", it sounds like content that I wouldn't enjoy in the first place with people that I wouldn't enjoy being around.

I'm sorry, but I simply cannot take this (or ANY) game that seriously. I already have a job that takes up way too much of my time as it is. If I have to research videos and min/max my toon's build just so I can carry my own weight - I'll pass.

I thought PUGS were kinda designed to get randoms together and figure stuff out. If you are PUGGING a vet dungeon, who is the real dumb ass here?