Remove Group Queue in PvP

rivenjr · March 2017

Too many unaccounted players are zerging in without being counted towards the limit. Just remove the AP cost to switch campaigns. Wipe em from the leaderboards when they switch to control campaign hoppers if necessary. Hopefully we won't DC so much with the limit actually maintained.

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

Are people actually able to get in and exceed the population cap by group queuing with members of another faction?

If so................

rivenjr · March 2017

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

GeneralPardon · March 2017

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Its just not true. If the campaign is poplocked and you group queue you just will be placed into the queue until there is a spot for your group.

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

GeneralPardon wrote: »

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Its just not true. If the campaign is poplocked and you group queue you just will be placed into the queue until there is a spot for your group.

His theory is that if an EP player creates a group queue with an AD player in his group, then the AD player takes the queue when it pops, he will enter Cyrodiil on AD but be counted toward the EP pop cap, or no pop cap at all.

GeneralPardon · March 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GeneralPardon wrote: »

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Its just not true. If the campaign is poplocked and you group queue you just will be placed into the queue until there is a spot for your group.

His theory is that if an EP player creates a group queue with an AD player in his group, then the AD player takes the queue when it pops, he will enter Cyrodiil on AD but be counted toward the EP pop cap, or no pop cap at all.

Thats not what he say's here:

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

GeneralPardon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GeneralPardon wrote: »

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Its just not true. If the campaign is poplocked and you group queue you just will be placed into the queue until there is a spot for your group.

His theory is that if an EP player creates a group queue with an AD player in his group, then the AD player takes the queue when it pops, he will enter Cyrodiil on AD but be counted toward the EP pop cap, or no pop cap at all.

Thats not what he say's here:

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Oh I didn't read that closely enough. You're right!

I heard a rumor a few weeks ago that group queue is functioning the way I described, and I thought he was talking about that. EP and AD guilds have been soliciting DC players, including myself, to group queue them into Trueflame because DC's queue is always shorter.

rivenjr · March 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GeneralPardon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GeneralPardon wrote: »

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Its just not true. If the campaign is poplocked and you group queue you just will be placed into the queue until there is a spot for your group.

His theory is that if an EP player creates a group queue with an AD player in his group, then the AD player takes the queue when it pops, he will enter Cyrodiil on AD but be counted toward the EP pop cap, or no pop cap at all.

Thats not what he say's here:

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Oh I didn't read that closely enough. You're right!

I heard a rumor a few weeks ago that group queue is functioning the way I described, and I thought he was talking about that. EP and AD guilds have been soliciting DC players, including myself, to group queue them into Trueflame because DC's queue is always shorter.

This ^^ might have been what I heard. Anyway, it should stop. I'm not saying what I heard is fact because I heard it from players. Just trying to bring attention to an exploit that is a cheat and likely doesn't help the servers either.

AbraXuSeXile · March 2017

Its true we do it all the time, beating a 150 queue all week by gettin opposing faction sign us up so either instant or lower.

Turelus · March 2017

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Its true we do it all the time, beating a 150 queue all week by gettin opposing faction sign us up so either instant or lower.

ABRAXUS IS EXPLOITING AGAIN! EVERYONE FILE MASS REPORTS BECAUSE HE'S RUINING THE GAME!

kuro-dono · March 2017

quite shock to hear this happen, and even my own guildie did it to show it. worse was that i had guildies on que, and here he comes past 100th que position straight to cyro. working as intented.

Ghost-Shot · March 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GeneralPardon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GeneralPardon wrote: »

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Its just not true. If the campaign is poplocked and you group queue you just will be placed into the queue until there is a spot for your group.

His theory is that if an EP player creates a group queue with an AD player in his group, then the AD player takes the queue when it pops, he will enter Cyrodiil on AD but be counted toward the EP pop cap, or no pop cap at all.

Thats not what he say's here:

rivenjr wrote: »

Not another faction but same faction. At least this is what I have heard among multiple guild chatter. It made little sense to me but then so has many other aspects of the campaigns. Maybe a dev can come on and provide clarity. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Oh I didn't read that closely enough. You're right!

I heard a rumor a few weeks ago that group queue is functioning the way I described, and I thought he was talking about that. EP and AD guilds have been soliciting DC players, including myself, to group queue them into Trueflame because DC's queue is always shorter.

It's true, been working that way since one tamriel.

Avaglaor · March 2017

I dont know if its relative but yesterday night around 10:00pm prime time PC/EU and when all factions were pop locked and EP had 20+ queue, I opened the score table and I saw EP with 109 potential point and low population buff!!!

Unfortunately I didnt get a screenshot.

The thing is that at that moment the AD was ruling the map with at least 3 zergs hitting different keeps, not enough EP to defend.

The low pop buff gone after a few minutes, dunno what is was but it was very weird...

ToRelax · March 2017

Ofc it should be fixed, but tbh I don't see much of a problem using this one while it's there... it's more player behaviour in the different types of content, that is PvP, PvE, RP, crafting/economy etc., that may ruin the game for other players. If a whole raid joins a campaign that way and joins the zerg, creating more lag and a numerical advantage, that would be just as bad as doing it with a normal queue.

kuro-dono · March 2017

tiny issue with this: when group of ppl que in via faction that has less population> letting them straight in than int heir own faction which has que of lets say 100. and we talking about group as in 12 to 24 ppl. so will the server kick 12-24 ppl out to let them in OR. will that faction max population go temporally up by 12-24 ppl?

kuro-dono · March 2017

ALSO. does server recognize these extra folks towards campaign population? not just on leaderboard? there been few suspicious things in the past. thats why asking these 2 questions.

BohnT · March 2017

No as they get a huge numerical advantage. With this you can have a 3:1 population and the other factions can't do anything about it. I wondered so many times why pact on trueflame is locked even though no on is in IC and all people are split between Farra and Kings and one other faction still out numbers us in both keeps by almost 2x.

You can compare it with football. Normally you should have 11 vs 11 and sometimes one team gets punished so you have 11 vs 10 or 11 vs 9. This is a huge advantage and in cyro we have this even more ridiculous with 2:1 and this is just unfair

themdogesbite · March 2017

Is there any proof of this at all or just wild speculation?

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · March 2017

themdogesbite wrote: »

Is there any proof of this at all or just wild speculation?

Proven: DC faction has queue of 80, and AD player (no queue) signs me up -> instant queue pop

Not proven: Population cap issues. I guess it just increases the pop limit for DC.

themdogesbite · March 2017

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Is there any proof of this at all or just wild speculation?

Proven: DC faction has queue of 80, and AD player (no queue) signs me up -> instant queue pop

Not proven: Population cap issues. I guess it just increases the pop limit for DC.

First part i'm aware of. It's mainly the second one im thinking about and also highly doubt affects populations at all.

Valencer · March 2017

Well, logically youd expect them to fix it so you cant queue enemy alliance members. But then you realise it's been broken since One Tamriel and thats 5 months ago by now...

Sandman929 · March 2017

I'm sure it's another one of those "creative use of (insert broken mechanic they won't fix)" moments for ZOS.

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

I'd be amused to see what would happen if, for one week, they removed the queue system altogether. The world would burn, but all the campaigns would get consistent action.

Crispen_Longbow · March 2017

It just allows you to "Bud" in line.

If the queue currently looks like this...
100 DC
120 EP
zero for AD

Lets say the group consists of these players.
1 AD
10 DC
10 EP

The new queue for everyone else in line is pushed back by 10 on DC and 10 on EP
New Queue
110 DC
130 EP
1 AD

This is why your individual counter will sometimes go up instead of always counting down. Its also while AD has no queue you would normally instantly be queue into Cryo but the 1 AD has to wait for the 10 DC and 10 EP to bud in line. The wait for the #1 spot in group queue is usually 10 times longer because of the wait to queue in the other alliances.

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

It just allows you to "Bud" in line.

If the queue currently looks like this...
100 DC
120 EP
zero for AD

Lets say the group consists of these players.
1 AD
10 DC
10 EP

The new queue for everyone else in line is pushed back by 10 on DC and 10 on EP
New Queue
110 DC
130 EP
1 AD

This is why your individual counter will sometimes go up instead of always counting down. Its also while AD has no queue you would normally instantly be queue into Cryo but the 1 AD has to wait for the 10 DC and 10 EP to bud in line. The wait for the #1 spot in group queue is usually 10 times longer because of the wait to queue in the other alliances.

Wouldn't this mean all these AD and EP trying to get me to group queue them into Trueflame would wait the same amount of time if the simply queued themselves?

I kind of want to test it by having two EP queue into TF at the same time on a really busy evening -- one in a solo queue and one in my group queue -- and see who gets to port in first.

Crispen_Longbow · March 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

It just allows you to "Bud" in line.

If the queue currently looks like this...
100 DC
120 EP
zero for AD

Lets say the group consists of these players.
1 AD
10 DC
10 EP

The new queue for everyone else in line is pushed back by 10 on DC and 10 on EP
New Queue
110 DC
130 EP
1 AD

This is why your individual counter will sometimes go up instead of always counting down. Its also while AD has no queue you would normally instantly be queue into Cryo but the 1 AD has to wait for the 10 DC and 10 EP to bud in line. The wait for the #1 spot in group queue is usually 10 times longer because of the wait to queue in the other alliances.

Wouldn't this mean all these AD and EP trying to get me to group queue them into Trueflame would wait the same amount of time if the simply queued themselves?

I kind of want to test it by having two EP queue into TF at the same time on a really busy evening -- one in a solo queue and one in my group queue -- and see who gets to port in first.

No they get pushed to the first of their line. You would have to wait longer but it would be much faster for them. So instead of them being 101 in line they now become #1 in line assuming your at group queue 1 for your alliance. They move only as fast as the group queue.

So if AD has a queue of 40, EP has a queue of 30 and DC has a queue of 20 and you are trying to queue in 10 AD, 5 EP and 1 DC. It would be faster for the EP guys to just queue in solo, then wait in the group Queue for the AD guys to get in theirs and much longer for the DC guy.

In fact you could always have 1 guy on the low pop faction making group queues and when he starts to get in position 1 just put a call out for any that want to get into to cryo to group up. The more people you add the longer the queue will be but much faster then waiting in long lines.

Sanct16 · March 2017

Before One Tamriel you weren't able to group up with players from other factions, so if an AD guy started a group queue, everyone in that group was AD, so there was no need to check the factions of players in the group. However they didn't update the group queue function in One Tamriel, so now when an AD guy starts a group queue the game still assumes that everyone in the group is AD too. If the AD queue is instant, every DC/EP guy will get the queue instantly aswell if an AD player starts the group queue.

Also, the reason why it often takes a long time before the queue pops after you reached Group Queue 1 is because at that point you have to wait until there is enough space for everyone in your group. If you have 12 people in the group reaching group queue 1 is basically equivalent to solo queue 12.

NightbladeMechanics · March 2017

Sanct16 wrote: »

Before One Tamriel you weren't able to group up with players from other factions, so if an AD guy started a group queue, everyone in that group was AD, so there was no need to check the factions of players in the group. However they didn't update the group queue function in One Tamriel, so now when an AD guy starts a group queue the game still assumes that everyone in the group is AD too. If the AD queue is instant, every DC/EP guy will get the queue instantly aswell if an AD player starts the group queue.

Also, the reason why it often takes a long time before the queue pops after you reached Group Queue 1 is because at that point you have to wait until there is enough space for everyone in your group. If you have 12 people in the group reaching group queue 1 is basically equivalent to solo queue 12.

This is the way I've interpreted it in my observation.

I wonder if, once these groups enter Cyrodiil, and assuming that they do enable a faction to exceed its population limit, the game recognizes that a faction has exceeded its population limit and delays the other factions' solo queues until the population has fallen back to the normal limit.

usmcjdking · March 2017

deleted

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2017

Perhaps its time for ZOS to be open and honest about it's population caps.

What is the REAL pop cap for trueflame?
How many times has it been changed.
Is it variable depending on time or day.
Can some alliances get over populated?

On that last one, for the sake of simplicity, lets say the pop caps is 100 per alliance. So 300 players max.
However, on that particular night, there are only 50DC, 50EP, and 200 AD
Will the campaign dynamically adjust capping DC and EP at 50 while letting the 200 AD in?

Letting AD be overpop doesn't sound like a good gameplay decision but from a marketing standpoint, those AD players would just get frustrated and quit the game (instead of going to another camapaign) so lets just let them in.

SirMontyII · March 2017

I agree there needs to be real numbers for population instead of these "bars" - I love pvp and it is the only reason I came back to the game and subscribe. Please give us actual numbers so we can finally lay all the speculations to rest on this matter.