Get rid of Champion Points?

Chrysa1is · February 2017

This would be well exciting and chaotic. Going back to proper raw damage based off your sets and weapon traits etc. I wouldn't mind it. Things were definitely more fun before CP. Although I find CPs awesome because I enjoy the passives in the Champion System. I don't think i'd miss them as much. I've been here since release and I loved the Veteran Rank system, despite it being long and arduous. Of course keep everything scaled to your level like it is now. Perhaps find a new way to keep the passives in the champion system without it affecting the time it took to get to CP600. I don't know, i'm just rolling it all out. I think it'd be fun to go back to being raw.

Should champion points be gone for good? Keep it friendly. List your reasons, it'll be interesting to see everyone elses take on this.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · February 2017

Unsure

Considering they just started the test on CP today you might want to wait a week.

Koensol · February 2017

No

No. CP allows for more options to fine tune and specialize your builds. I like playing around with it.

Tryxus · February 2017

No

Keep them for PvE, remove them for PvP

andreasranasen · February 2017

No

Ugh this is gonna be one of those never ending threads that will stay on first page for weeks O_O

Note: CP adds build variety to the game. Please stay.

wayfarerx · February 2017

No

You'll have to pry Plentiful Harvest, Master Gatherer and Treasure Hunter from my cold, dead hands.

bulbousb16_ESO · February 2017

Yes

Azura's Star is where the real men compete.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

No

I like the CPs as a RPG geek, I get a little bit rigid when I put points into things that make bigger numbers pop up on my screen, if you know what I mean.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2017

Your poll is unfortunately limiting. The choices are too narrow and it will skew the results. I think feel the champion system needs to be dramatically revised, revamped or even expanded but just removing it would not help. And this is coming from someone who mostly dislikes the champion system.

What I have learned from talking to people on these forums is that some players have a deep ingrained psychological NEED for "progression." Even if the progression is fake. Even if they know their character isn't really getting any stronger and ZOS is just buffing mobs to curb power creep. They love their imaginary points and ever increasing damage numbers - just look at the post directly above mine lol. The dude probably didn't even notice the increased armor and HP on the mob he was hitting but ZOMG BIG NUMBERS!! I enjoy playing the game for the game's sake but that's just me. Everyone plays differently.

The best thing the champion system ever did for us was get rid of the Veteran system, which was also terrible in its own way. Now that progression is account bound and not character bound, I don't have to grind up new characters all the way to 50, get all mages guild, undaunted, etc, and THEN, on top of all that, grind out 16 champion levels. That was ridiculous.

The other benefit of the CP system is that gear is no longer tied to level. ZOS can increase or improve CP without changing the gear cap and forcing everyone to grind all those terrible RNG helms and weapons again.

So, as much as I dislike CP in PvP, and think it is a meaningless vertical progression treadmill in PvE, we can't just get rid of it cold turkey. It could be carefully removed in PvP with some critical adjustments in Battle Spirit to compensate but I think it should remain in PvE until it gets a rework. Like many have suggested, more horizontal progression, unique bonuses/abilities instead of raw stat inflation.

Danksta · February 2017

Yes

The more they raise the cap the more obvious it will be that the current CP system is seriously flawed. Now they don't necessarily need to scrap the CP system, but it definitely needs to be reworked.

cowsayUshi · February 2017

Unsure

I'm sitting on fence, waiting to lean one way or the other on Champion Points, they've been a great step from the Veteran Rank system. Using Champion Points ZeniMax created a way to reward long time players, the idea of the more you practice the better you are, and I wish this idea was true to our skill lines, especially crafting. At reaching level fifty, you practice crafting a bit more and your crafted materials improve. Creating better armor and weapons than someone who just also reached level fifty and researched all nine traits, but I digress.

I feel the problem most feel with the Champion Point system is how it drives the stake between the already maxed out users and those just getting into the game. Even though ZeniMax did a great job bringing a level playing field to all levels in PvE we put such an importance on numbers that it has become a race to the max level. And it's natural for MMOs to be this way, even though we all hate feeling of being at the bottom of the barrel when starting a new account.

So I'm really not on either side, I like the system, but I know where you're coming from and I hope for some day ZeniMax can create a new system, or tweaking the Champion Point system where the older players are rewarded and newer players don't feel left out. Maybe in a perfect world, such a thing can exist.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Unsure

I'd like the passives to stay but not in the way it works today. I'd enjoy a 1% change per tick

That technically means removing CP as we know it because it's actually just the VR system and not the champion system.

The champion system should be a percent only passive that's unlocked via progress and I'd be open to aligning this in similar manner to quest progress

Now that does leave a huge gap in how to adjust gear leveled items. While the items could all be updated to the cp160 stats many would argue that progression is lacking.

If done in this way, I'd strongly suggest that quest progression apply but then it's a drastic new game overall by design.

The weapon, armor, levels could replace leveling which would mean that we would need to better describe the skills instead of I, II, III and IV with the overal 1-50 line levels.

This can work but it would initially be chaotic and scary as ZOS has done a terrible job in the pst of shutting the level progression systems.

Tandor · February 2017

No

There needs to be some form of progression beyond level 50 in PvE, as for PvP I have no interest in that and cannot comment therefore. The CP system may benefit from some attention, but as a means of progression it's as good as any other - although I'd personally prefer characters to progress individually rather than by sharing xp.

Kodrac · February 2017

No

No. Build variety and vertical progression is a good thing. It's better than cookie cutter one build fits all boring-ness.

Khaos_Bane · February 2017

Can't we just NERF Templars more instead of getting rid of champion points ?

LordGavus · February 2017

No

CP shouldn't be removed. Can there be some improvement? Sure, but we do need some post level 50 progression.

cjthibs · February 2017

Yes

I'd like for there to be something entirely different.

Something like...every 50 champion points allows you to pick one unique passive or ability to augment your build. Could even be abilities from other classes, or entirely new ones.

No stacking stats, but a diversification of builds.

Allowing people to unbalance the game in their own unique way by stacking stats is just dumb.

Hallothiel · February 2017

No

This is your second poll today about CP; you really do have some sort of issue with them!

Chrysa1is · February 2017

Yes

cjthibs wrote: »

I'd like for there to be something entirely different.

Something like...every 50 champion points allows you to pick one unique passive or ability to augment your build. Could even be abilities from other classes, or entirely new ones.

No stacking stats, but a diversification of builds.

Allowing people to unbalance the game in their own unique way by stacking stats is just dumb.

Yeah I've always felt that there has always been a few loop holes that people can take advantage of. Agree bro

Godeko · February 2017

One stupid poll after the other...

I've got another one for ya:
Get rid of equipment?
This would be well exciting and chaotic. Going back to proper fist fight.

Come on people? Why should they do a system and throw it away 2 years later because... reasons?

PlaceboSoul · February 2017

No

I could agree with this, but you cannot just remove the endgame progression ladder and leave a void. It would need to be replaced with something else, another, "treadmill" for endgame. Sadly, the only other thing to show progression is collecting stuff, and a great deal of that is locked behind a paywall (crown store).

IcyDeadPeople · February 2017

No

Newer players might not recall or be aware of this, but CP is not magically granting people 25% more damage or sustain compared to pre-CP mechanics.

When champion system was first implemented, the developers examined what were the exact maximum possible stats as of that moment for recovery, cost reduction, spell damage, weapon damage, etc, after removing soft caps.

Then they reduced these stats for every player and made it possible to reach the maximum possible stats again via a combination of gear, food, champion points, mundus stone etc.

What you are asking for is really return of soft caps, not removal of champion points.

IMO return to soft caps would reduce options for interesting builds and removal of CP would be the same kind of reduction, not to mention removing the sense of progressing we get from earning champion points.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2017

Godeko wrote: »

One stupid poll after the other...

I've got another one for ya:
Get rid of equipment?
This would be well exciting and chaotic. Going back to proper fist fight.

Come on people? Why should they do a system and throw it away 2 years later because... reasons?

It should have never launched in the state it did. They let us test full 3600 CP on the PTS and we all told them that the gameplay was miserable, and that the power creep was absurd. But no, lets not listen to testers, no way anyone will get to 1000 CP within a few months of live Kappa.

ADarklore · February 2017

No

Ah, I see the OP is on a 'champion points' bashing roll today... this is the second post trying to bash CPs. First it was about how CP shouldn't be account bound, now it's 'remove them entirely'. Perhaps OP should spend more time playing the game and less time worrying about how other people are playing it!

cjthibs · February 2017

Yes

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Newer players might not recall or be aware of this, but CP is not magically granting people 25% more damage or sustain compared to pre-CP mechanics.

When champion system was first implemented, the developers examined what were the exact maximum possible stats as of that moment for recovery, cost reduction, spell damage, weapon damage, etc, after removing soft caps.

Then they reduced these stats for every player and made it possible to reach the maximum possible stats again via a combination of gear, food, champion points, mundus stone etc.

What you are asking for is really return of soft caps, not removal of champion points.

IMO return to soft caps would reduce options for interesting builds and removal of CP would be the same kind of reduction, not to mention removing the sense of progressing we get from earning champion points.

Umm...nah. Capped damaged for example was like 2500. People are building up to 7500 damage now.

Chrysa1is · February 2017

Yes

Godeko wrote: »

One stupid poll after the other...

This would be well exciting and chaotic. Going back to proper fist fight.

Yeah that would be actually. I do that sometimes now. Would be better without CPs

Avran_Sylt · February 2017

Personally I quite like the passives from the champion point system. However, if it was removed, I would love to see the CP passives reworked into new 2 or 3 piece sets.

Jeremy · February 2017

No

Chrysa1is wrote: »

This would be well exciting and chaotic. Going back to proper raw damage based off your sets and weapon traits etc. I wouldn't mind it. Things were definitely more fun before CP. Although I find CPs awesome because I enjoy the passives in the Champion System. I don't think i'd miss them as much. I've been here since release and I loved the Veteran Rank system, despite it being long and arduous. Of course keep everything scaled to your level like it is now. Perhaps find a new way to keep the passives in the champion system without it affecting the time it took to get to CP600. I don't know, i'm just rolling it all out. I think it'd be fun to go back to being raw.

Should champion points be gone for good? Keep it friendly. List your reasons, it'll be interesting to see everyone elses take on this.

Champion points prolong character progression and give players more ways to improve their characters. So they are important. Otherwise, players will become bored faster after reaching level 50 and find something else to play.

Nestor · February 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What I have learned from talking to people on these forums is that some players have a deep ingrained psychological NEED for "progression." Even if the progression is fake.

Progression in games is always fake. It takes 5 hits or skill attacks to take down a mob at L5, it takes the same 5 attacks as L50, just with bigger numbers. Bigger character numbers are always offset with bigger mob resistances or health pools.

But, we need our progression, it makes the effort have some meaning. Of the two kinds that this game could have, A CP Type of system is the best choice. Gear Progression, in this game especially, is just a pain in the butt to end up right back where we started again.

As for what to do with the CPs. It needs some work. I for one would like to also see caps introduced to make hybrid characters viable again. With the Caps, we would then have the opportunity to spend our points as we see fit, so all in Blue, sure, go for it. Just have the soft caps discourage that, or, as an alternative, not encourage that type of point investment.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Unsure

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Godeko wrote: »

One stupid poll after the other...

I've got another one for ya:
Get rid of equipment?
This would be well exciting and chaotic. Going back to proper fist fight.

Come on people? Why should they do a system and throw it away 2 years later because... reasons?

It should have never launched in the state it did. They let us test full 3600 CP on the PTS and we all told them that the gameplay was miserable, and that the power creep was absurd. But no, lets not listen to testers, no way anyone will get to 1000 CP within a few months of live Kappa.

Yeah that entire PTS was a waist of feedback.
A whole year and a half later

Prob makes sense to go back to the original difficulty but that would mean a CP world and a non CP world.

Considering now CP is the main cause of lag......CP points should be removed in favor of lesser variances in players but Cyrodil would need to only host 36 total players in some sort of smaller battle grounds

Prob not what they'd do tho

Chrysa1is · February 2017

Yes

ADarklore wrote: »

Ah, I see the OP is on a 'champion points' bashing roll today... this is the second post trying to bash CPs. First it was about how CP shouldn't be account bound, now it's 'remove them entirely'. Perhaps OP should spend more time playing the game and less time worrying about how other people are playing it!

Been here since release bro

And it's just a question. I gave my opinion and answers. You've just voted no and given no reason for your vote, and instead just stated what appears to be a problem with what I'm doing. Give us a reason for your vote please

Keep it friendly.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Get rid of Champion Points?

Get rid of Champion Points? 368 votes