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Streamers who went to zenimax
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willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
Because only politicians can have conflicts of interest? [snip]Rohamad_Ali wrote: »We are not talking about politicians running for office with conflicts of business interest
WTF does that even mean? You know the word "refuted" doesn't mean disagreed with right?Cherryblossom wrote: »You have only come out with one false flag regarding conflict of interest that has already been refuted by a few already.
Oh FFS, that's exactly the problem. Call me irrational a few more times if it makes you feel better but you've failed to grasp the premise of what is being discussed on such a fundamental level. Sheesh.Cherryblossom wrote: »seem to be centred around balance and combat, not about general feedback about the game.
[Edit for Flaming]
Edited by ZOS_Bill on February 13, 2017 2:39PM2 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »So from reading this thread I've seen a few things;
1. ZoS is damned if they do something, and damned if they don't. People bash them for staying too quiet, and the second they start improving (which they've improved phenomenally on recently) they say they did it wrong. Sorry, but which one of you saying ZoS chose the wrong group of people, are CEO's, or have any experience running a business?
2. Personal trainers are evil, evil people and how dare they try to make money off their knowledge and passion. Everyone must find a job they hate and complain 24/7. Furthermore, if you're a personal trainer, you can't be a decent human being who wants to help people learn, even if you have countless hours of non profit content helping people learn and enjoy things more.
3. Experienced members of said field are not "proper" for focus groups, despite understanding the field to an almost (or already) professional level. Everything must revolve around the masses, and just because people don't understand said field, it should be designed around making it accessible to them at that level, rather than trying to raise them up to understand.
1> I think you are making an unintended conclusion about some of the feedback. ZOS held a 'Pro player' focus/test group. My feedback and those of some others is that ZOS then announced it in a way to 'hype' it up, but then anyway everything was under NDA anyway.
So why bother? To give it attention.
In the mean time, there are multi year issues that seem not to get attention...
It's about priorities.
Personally I couldn't care less about 'balance' so long as there is crappy RNG, lag, botting, exploiting etc etc. Were these things discussed ? And what will be done ?
So I have a balanced build to earn a prosperous monster or VMA drop... yay!
Who said someone needed to be a CEO or run a business? - isn't being a player enough?.. The concept of focus groups is a common business practice - they are not hard to understand nor form an opinion about.
2> Who said 'evil people' - and anyway who is a personal trainer? - what? for this game? this is a joke right?
3> This is not nuero-science or particle physics... in my opinion, it's a *game*, not a field.. No one suggested the game needs to be watered down, as far as I know, but that is what the DEVs are doing anyway right? So did the 'focus' group convince the DEVs not to 'bring the game' down to whoever's level?
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ScooberSteve wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »As one of the people that went to Zenimax I just want to remind you and others that we that went are under a strict NDA (a non-disclosure agreement), we can't say anything. So any new info about the game that might have come out of this will be from the devs here on the forums, the main website or on ESO Live.
wow howd you get an invite 4stars? Only reason you put your 2 cents in was to boast.
How is what he said boasting ? I guarantee you nothing he said is boastful . An almost everyone here knows it's nothing to boast about outside of the game . Any of those people ever goes to nightclub and tell some guy or girl they were on ESO live is so not going to score . So there is no reason for them boast at all .
Except maybe comicon . That line could work there on someone overweight in a Salormoon costume .2 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
Then you didn't have as much impact as has been touted by several people in attendance and several people quoting those who attended.At no point is it pay to win. PTS is available to the community 40-50 days prior to launch of a new update. Whatever knowledge we gained in those few play sessions (which most likely becomes outdated with changes made from now until launch) is easily gained in the first couple days of PTS.
That's good if true. That is a positive development.Gilliamtherogue wrote: »[All of the stuff dealing with the patch will be removed from NDA, once the content goes live.
Also never heard of a NDA for watercooler banter either, so...Gilliamtherogue wrote: »You don't hear about companies having podcasts about what banter goes around at their offices, do you?2 -
AlcastClass Representative@willlienellson How are you still not banned on these forums
I am impressed Edited by Alcast on February 13, 2017 10:04AMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot14 -
Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭ScooberSteve wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »As one of the people that went to Zenimax I just want to remind you and others that we that went are under a strict NDA (a non-disclosure agreement), we can't say anything. So any new info about the game that might have come out of this will be from the devs here on the forums, the main website or on ESO Live.
wow howd you get an invite 4stars? Only reason you put your 2 cents in was to boast.
Because he has done some really nice and impressive theorycrafting, like THE damage mitigation reference. (Btw thx for correcting my assumptions on vampire damage reduction there @paulsimonps )
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-a-third-time#latest
Did you do anything even remotely similar for the community @ScooberSteve ?PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -2 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭willlienellson wrote: »
Also never heard of a NDA for watercooler banter either, so...Gilliamtherogue wrote: »You don't hear about companies having podcasts about what banter goes around at their offices, do you?
Only a lawyer could know everything under an NDA, and none of us who went are lawyers. I'd rather be safe than sorry, as well as not damage any relationship with ZoS, even if it's not breaking an agreement. I put a (?) because I have no clue what all is covered. Facebook just got sued for $500m, imagine what their legal team could do to a group of people who play video games all day.
Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue1 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not assuming bias. I'm pointing out the potential to abuse the situation if there was bias.You're assuming bias and motivation based off a source of revenue. I get what you're saying, I just think it's a bit silly and paranoid.
For the same reason people get upset about lobbyists in Washington. Nobody presumes to know the hearts and motivations of those individuals. We see the appearance of impropriety as a problem itself. The potential for abuse is the problem - not the abuse.
Obviously, it's not going to change. Obviously, this company values the insight of a select few players over mountains of ignored feedback. And Obviously, this company doesn't think this conflict of interest disqualifies anyone.
So, I certainly am glad to hear it's paranoid, and hope you did everything you could to create a more balanced game. (shrug)
I'll offer a final analogy (already offered in those other posts I linked) of how Tax Prep Companies like Turbo Tax lobby for the tax codes to remain complex so their is increased demand for their products. If you understand that connection, then you should understand the concern for potential abuse in this scenario.Also, I still fail to see the supposed connection of personal training and how that affects our decision making skills in feedback. I teach players to play the game in whatever current state it is.
My mind is made up that it was improper, but I'm not drawing any conclusions at all about the actual impact or anyone's motivations. As I said, the potential for abuse is the issue.
Thanks for taking the issue seriously and trying to understand it and responding respectfully. I appreciate it. And I hope you really do understand the distinction between being totally okay with what you do, and not okay with you being included because of that.Edited by willlienellson on February 13, 2017 10:12AM3 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
Good question. XD@willlienellson How are you still not banned on these forums I am impressed2 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
LMAO. Fair point.Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Only a lawyer could know everything under an NDA, and none of us who went are lawyers. I'd rather be safe than sorry, as well as not damage any relationship with ZoS, even if it's not breaking an agreement. I put a (?) because I have no clue what all is covered. Facebook just got sued for $500m, imagine what their legal team could do to a group of people who play video games all day.2 -
Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭@willlienellson How are you still not banned on these forums I am impressed
His tinfoil hat is obviously working well PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, I still fail to see the supposed connection of personal training and how that affects our decision making skills in feedback. I teach players to play the game in whatever current state it is. What scenario results in skewed feedback? As in, what balance decision (example) could be skewed in favor of a personal ESO trainer? (Curios)
For instance, I've been advocating here for the reinstatement of soft caps, to stop the power creep and promote build diversity, and also to allow players with different levels of skills to play together in an enjoyable manner.
Because you make profit from teaching people to get better, you may logically advocate against the reinstatement of soft caps. I'm not saying you are or are not doing this, but it would be logical for you to do this.At the end of the day, you seem to have your mind made up. All I can say to comfort you is Zenimax is smart enough to filter and prioritize our feedback and I think over all this event was a big success for the game.
I agree with you on that, but not all players think ZOS is smart.
(Note that in any case, we are advertising your services here
)
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 13, 2017 10:19AM1 -
runagate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ScooberSteve wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »As one of the people that went to Zenimax I just want to remind you and others that we that went are under a strict NDA (a non-disclosure agreement), we can't say anything. So any new info about the game that might have come out of this will be from the devs here on the forums, the main website or on ESO Live.
wow howd you get an invite 4stars? Only reason you put your 2 cents in was to boast.
Because he has done some really nice and impressive theorycrafting, like THE damage mitigation reference. (Btw thx for correcting my assumptions on vampire damage reduction there @paulsimonps )
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-a-third-time#latest
Did you do anything even remotely similar for the community @ScooberSteve ?
Darn skippy. I only have 15 bookmarks in my browser and that's the first one.2 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭@willlienellson How are you still not banned on these forums I am impressed
His tinfoil hat is obviously working well
Not everyone knows this, but they sell two grades of tinfoil. You have to buy the right one.
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Titansteele✭✭✭✭✭I do not really pay attention to the streamers, I only really "know" three.
Out of the three there is only one whom I feel would do well in that environment and represent both themselves and the community well.
It is clear that it is not JUST the streamers that went and that was to balance the feedback which was a wise move from ZOS.
The gobby whiney keyboard warriors were silenced in an adult way, if they were viewed as difficult they were brought into the fold, treated like adults and any moaning they do from here in out will look and sound like children throwing their toys out the pram because mummy didn't buy them a chocolate lolly. Bravo ZOS, Bravo you have saved us all from the self entitled whines.
I enjoy this game and I feel that I would have had a lot to offer at an event like this and I would enjoy it a hell of a lot but how would ZOS know that unless I was hyper vocal or visible in some way in the community. There is a streak of jealousy in me for the reasons above but I can see clearly why they picked the streamers to attend.
Guild Leader of The Twelve Knights, AD PVE, PVP and Trading Guild on the EU Mega Server
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"1 -
ScooberSteve✭✭✭✭@Berenhir If and when I do theory crafting it certainly wont be for this game got better things to do. And I certainly wouldn't travel half way across the world to have input into a game.
Edited by ScooberSteve on February 13, 2017 10:26AM0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno Very impressed on this move to say the least. IMO this needs to happen more. The feedback/testing done by everyone there I'm sure will generate the best balancing patch this game has ever seen in June. Only thing I could suggest for next time is to have a public thread where the most popular questions/topics can be accumulated. Could be a good source of 1 or 2 things that need to be addressed that may be forgotten/overlooked by the experts.
@Gilliamtherogue @Paulington I'm hoping information regarding stamina's severely crippled ability to try and compete in top tier trials dps was addressed to a certain degree?
@FENGRUSH @Sypher Out of curiosity... Have either of you guys ever seen a group of 20-40 people wiped in 5 seconds by anything other than magicka stuff? I mean prox det... vicious death... destro ult... In this entire games existence I have never seen stamina have anything nearly as powerful as any of those things. I mean sure stam has had a lot of good times in 1v1 1v2 scenarios... Though nothing that can even compare to obliterating 40 people like prox vd destro ult can. Hoping stamina might have something to look forward to as far as zerg bombing goes...
Edited by Shadzilla on February 13, 2017 11:12AM2 -
Immortal_Dark410✭✭✭✭@willlienellson How are you still not banned on these forums I am impressed
I have to agree, it is quite impressive , but whats most impressive is people still trying to have a conversation on this subject when in the end all that's gonna happen is 2 sides trying to arrive at a conclusion to this, which will probably never happen.Edited by Immortal_Dark410 on February 13, 2017 11:12AMRetired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF TAMRIEL
Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF NIRN
(ALL FACTION TRADE GUILDS)
PC NA SERVER
DC - DARKDROGO | ORC | STAM DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-GEARLT-OF-RIVIA | ALTMER | MAG SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
EP - DARK-ABYSS | DUNMER | MAG TEMP | LVL 50 | CP 1285
DC - REAPERS-CLOACK-OF-YASSASEEN | BRETON | MAG NB | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-SLADE-WILSON | KHAJIIT | STAM NB | LVL 50 | CP 585
AD - THE-LAST-DRUID-OF-PARANOR | ALTMER | MAG DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - GALADRIEL-LADY OF LIGHT | IMPERIAL | STAM SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
CONSOLE PS5 NA SERVER AS WELL0 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@FENGRUSH @Sypher Out of curiosity... Have either of you guys ever seen a group of 20-40 people wiped in 5 seconds by anything other than magicka stuff? I mean prox det... vicious death... destro ult... In this entire games existence I have never seen stamina have anything nearly as powerful as any of those things. I mean sure stam has had a lot of good times in 1v1 1v2 scenarios... Though nothing that can even compare to obliterating 40 people like prox vd destro ult can. Hoping stamina might have something to look forward to as far as zerg bombing goes...
Then a suggest a really close look at the most powerful mag classes, and not blanket nerfs to all magicka. Classes that easily stack 4,5-5K SD, 50-60K Max mag (80K possible), have 80-90% crit chance and 18-25K Spell Pen. That would be interesting. I know one magicka class that can't.Edited by Idinuse on February 13, 2017 11:13AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm still trying to get my head around the concept that people will pay that much to train to play a video game.
A video game.
It boggles the mind.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%5 -
Nahtal✭✭✭Good job, make the game more better. I' m not greedy for the latest update,s.
Rly do not care, and mean that in a happy way.
Maybe i m to basic+ for this, 100 skill point of 200 100CP cap increase or 200. Those details are not important for me.Love to crind, to sell, to explore, to heal, and to have fun.
Templar Breton vampire HEAL CP463 Lord Massimo 'fire is his friend'
Templar Argonian QUAN CHI HEAL CP463: 'the light of friendly'
Nightblade Breton Sjangsung DPS CP463 'does not take souls'
Zizeng (new char) DPS/HEAL warden (not chinees char)0 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's not naming and shaming when it's not something they're ashamed of. It's not like it's a service that's against the TOS that they're keeping on the DL.
Mmmhhh... 'kay.
I hope I won't get into trouble for this. If ZOS supports them I guess it's within TOS and all.
http://thearcaneacademy.com/
This site is made by @Deltia and @Gilliamtherogue , who offer personal training/coaching for cash. Afaik, both were at the meeting.
This situation applies to @Sypher as well (by his own admission). That's 3 people already (out of a panel of +/- 20 ?)
Remember we're not "shaming" you guys, just pointing out the conflict of interest there.
@anitajoneb17_ESO
Can you explain why it's a conflict of interest? I would suggest this you will fail at.
As many have already pointed out, teaching someone how best to play, is not effected by particular skills or mechanic's.
Or do you suggest that the Skills and Mechanic's within the game do not change on a regular basis!
Understanding how to theorycraft is a skill that can be taught, once you understand how, it doesn't matter how the Mechanics or skills change, as you now know how to adapt to the changes.
Making one class or skill or Set OP is what everyone want's to avoid, these issues are always highlighted by the majority of streamers, so if your case is that they want to create an OP skills or class, it's obvious that they fight against this already.
So Please let me know your case so I can consider it and see if I agree. But the above should give you examples you should avoid.
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Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cherryblossom wrote: »You have only come out with one false flag regarding conflict of interest that has already been refuted by a few already.willlienellson wrote: »WTF does that even mean? You know the word "refuted" doesn't mean disagreed with right?
No it means your Premise has been disproved and is without foundation. Please explain how teaching someone how to play the game can be effected by understand the mechanics that are open to all.Cherryblossom wrote: »seem to be centred around balance and combat, not about general feedback about the game.willlienellson wrote: »Oh FFS, that's exactly the problem. Call me irrational a few more times if it makes you feel better but you've failed to grasp the premise of what is being discussed on such a fundamental level. Sheesh.
So explain how making one skill or class being OP helps a Streamer. As mentioned by many already, the game being competitive is better for a streamer, not one where certain skill dominate rather than good skillful game play.
Edited by Cherryblossom on February 13, 2017 12:01PM0 -
As far as im aware alot of top level eso players were invited into zenimax, im sure theres loads of information to be learnt from them. However its difficult for us to keep track of all those players and find out what they have to say.
If anyone has any new information about the future of eso as a result of these players going to zenimax, please share id love to know what the future holds for zenimax
For now, they can't say anything about what they tested. Give it a while, once the beta for Morrowind opens we might be able to hear a bit more about what went on.PC/EU/EP
Leader of Constellation
PvE Templar Healer and Achievement Hunter0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO
Can you explain why it's a conflict of interest? I would suggest this you will fail at.
As many have already pointed out, teaching someone how best to play, is not effected by particular skills or mechanic's.
Or do you suggest that the Skills and Mechanic's within the game do not change on a regular basis!
Understanding how to theorycraft is a skill that can be taught, once you understand how, it doesn't matter how the Mechanics or skills change, as you now know how to adapt to the changes.
Making one class or skill or Set OP is what everyone want's to avoid, these issues are always highlighted by the majority of streamers, so if your case is that they want to create an OP skills or class, it's obvious that they fight against this already.
So Please let me know your case so I can consider it and see if I agree. But the above should give you examples you should avoid.
Thanks for your advice.... may I in return suggest that you read the thread entirely before asking the same question over and over again, even though they have been extensively answered already ?
For the last time, I'll give some examples :
- The current game design causes people's DPS to stretch from 10K to 60K. That is far too much spread to allow for players to group up without knowing their respective "performance" first, and causes a lot of friction and frustration on a social level in the game. Many voices (including Rich Lambert's) have expressed concerns about that and suggest that the ceiling is lowered and the floor raised. Someone who makes a business out of teaching players will likely and logically advocate against this because it would lower the demand for his/her services.
- Many players ask (imho rightfully) for more simplification and more transparency in the complex calculations systems of the game. Including the developers, who admitted that the current level of complexity was partly responsible for performance issues. However, someone who makes a business out of explaining and teaching these mechanics will likely and logically advocate for these things to remain complex, intricate and hidden.
- As a general trend, people who make a business out of teaching the game will advocate for the game to remain difficult, whereas the majority of players would like it to remain or become easy.
Etc. etc. Lobbyism 101, really.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 13, 2017 12:32PM3 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ScooberSteve wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »As one of the people that went to Zenimax I just want to remind you and others that we that went are under a strict NDA (a non-disclosure agreement), we can't say anything. So any new info about the game that might have come out of this will be from the devs here on the forums, the main website or on ESO Live.
wow howd you get an invite 4stars? Only reason you put your 2 cents in was to boast.ScooberSteve wrote: »@Berenhir If and when I do theory crafting it certainly wont be for this game got better things to do. And I certainly wouldn't travel half way across the world to have input into a game.
OK so apparently having a low amount of stars mean you are a bad player now or something? What you are saying is that I should just be happy I got picked and that I should keep quiet cause I don't have anything valuable to say is that it?
No see having a low amount of stars just means I don't post a lot of stuff. If and when I post I make sure that it is something that will help the community, my Damage Mitigation testing and thread is something I take pride in cause its something I am good at that also helped others and I had fun doing and making it.
And to be honest, who cares if you don't want to theory craft for ESO and wouldn't go there if asked? You claim I only posted to boast but if we want to talk about self absorbed people then maybe we should hand you a mirror. We that went to play test obviously thought it was something WE wanted to do, who are you to belittle that. We had fun and we could give feedback on the development on something we love and want to see grow. Please return to whatever hole you crawled out from under.2 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »- The current game design causes people's DPS to stretch from 10K to 60K. That is far too much spread to allow for players to group up without knowing their respective "performance" first, and causes a lot of friction and frustration on a social level in the game. Many voices (including Rich Lambert's) have expressed concerns about that and suggest that the ceiling is lowered and the floor raised. Someone who makes a business out of teaching players will likely and logically advocate against this because it would lower the demand for his/her services.
And this shows the real "reason" of your complains, you are butthurt because ZoS asked their opinion and not yours, who told your that your opinion about DPS numbers is worth something? . You are just using the money thing to excuse yourself (which is pathetic, what is wrong in a person investing THEIR time to teach someone else something and asking for money in return? if you can pay a boxing coach to teach you how to get better at boxing, why is bad for good players to charge to teach people how to be good at this game?).
The frustrations your are talking about, are yours and yours only, people enjoys challenge, is the driving force of a game like this, is what keep the players interested in the game and gives that sense of "infinite" replayability that is key to the life of a MMO.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »- Many players ask (imho rightfully) for more simplification and more transparency in the complex calculations systems of the game. Including the developers, who admitted that the current level of complexity was partly responsible for performance issues. However, someone who makes a business out of explaining and teaching these mechanics will likely and logically advocate for these things to remain complex, intricate and hidden.
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You want to make this game even more dumb using as excuse the performance on Cyrodril? keep trying.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »- As a general trend, people who make a business out of teaching the game will advocate for the game to remain difficult, whereas the majority of players would like it to remain or become easy.
"become easy". What about your learn to play instead of asking the devs to dumb-down the game to your level? A depth learning curve is what keeps a game like this alive, players get that feeling of constant improving their skills and that gives them reason to keep logging-in every day.
This is why we can't have nice things form ZoS, because of people like you. Keep at it, eventually you will make enough noise to prevent ZoS from actually hearing the playerbase again.
Edited by ManDraKE on February 13, 2017 2:01PM0 -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭Sounds like a lot of people are butt hurt they didnt get picked.
Regardless of audience its still uber cool that the company would pay for players profiting or not, to have this experience. Unfortunately it sounds like people feel left out.
There is no moral obligations here nor a moral right or wrong. The company made the best choice for itself, and some individuals got to benefit from it, whether it was experience, free food, or boosting their business venture, none of it is wrong.
Classic case of people feeling upset that the rich kid was prom king.0
This discussion has been closed.