Vicious Death - Will be BIS in Cyrodiil come Homestead

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2017

I know this didn't receive a lot of fanfare but

They are changing AOE caps next patch so the 1st 12 people take full damage. This makes Vicious Death more powerful then it ever was in TG.

A Sorc can combine Mage's Wrath Explosion with Vicious Death to do 18-22k worth of instant damage to 12 people.

Nightblade Bomb Builds will be better then they ever were....one Nightblade will be able to smash large groups with this.

Guys like Sypher are going to have fun with this...This has been kept very quiet, but the nerf to proc sets, and the AOE cap changes buffing Vicious Death to the moon....just wait and see

If you don't have your Vicious Death jewels, weapons, armor, i'd get them before price goes sky hi.....it will be really really good

Iyas · February 2017

So? dont stand in a zerg I guess

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2017

Iyas wrote: »

So? dont stand in a zerg I guess

exactly!

But you know there will be people who do, and those who like to bomb will be licking their chops.

I can't wait to see some Nightblade make a group go BOOM!

Master_Kas · February 2017

To bad it prob can't crit now

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2017

Master_Kas wrote: »

To bad it prob can't crit now

AFAIK it still can. Its not considered a proc set, someone has to die from you dealing damage for them to work.

AzuraKin · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I know this didn't receive a lot of fanfare but

They are changing AOE caps next patch so the 1st 12 people take full damage. This makes Vicious Death more powerful then it ever was in TG.

A Sorc can combine Mage's Wrath Explosion with Vicious Death to do 18-22k worth of instant damage to 12 people.

Nightblade Bomb Builds will be better then they ever were....one Nightblade will be able to smash large groups with this.

Guys like Sypher are going to have fun with this...This has been kept very quiet, but the nerf to proc sets, and the AOE cap changes buffing Vicious Death to the moon....just wait and see

If you don't have your Vicious Death jewels, weapons, armor, i'd get them before price goes sky hi.....it will be really really good

lol it wont effect v.d. v.d. has a very tight radius, requires killing blow. only mage dps will run v.d. and only after group buffs are taken care of in group gear synergizing. unless of course you run in a pug zerg.

zuto40 · February 2017

Lul bomblades, did you mean free AP?

FENGRUSH · February 2017

12 players take full damage on AOE caps now? I thought the shift was only in the % damage of the sets, not the sets themselves.

First 6 took 100% then 50% beyond is being shifted to 75%? VD is good now and will be good there too. VD doesnt usually hit a huge amount like that - its proxi that is going to benefit in a huge way hitting large groups though.

Valencer · February 2017

Ive always seen VD as a workaround that's needed because of AoE caps. Will be interesting to see how it performs with loosened AoE caps.

FENGRUSH · February 2017

Valencer wrote: »

Ive always seen VD as a workaround that's needed because of AoE caps. Will be interesting to see how it performs with loosened AoE caps.

Exactly what it is - an option that stam doesnt really have either, which kind of sucks. Ultimately, I find the meta of heavy armor magplars puts a big stopper on this kind of stuff.

SneaK · February 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Ive always seen VD as a workaround that's needed because of AoE caps. Will be interesting to see how it performs with loosened AoE caps.

Exactly what it is - an option that stam doesnt really have either, which kind of sucks. Ultimately, I find the meta of heavy armor magplars puts a big stopper on this kind of stuff.

Reverse Slice though.

Ghost-Shot · February 2017

Don't forget that proc sets can't crit anymore, so you're looking at more like 9k damage to all those people, still going to be strong though.

NBrookus · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They are changing AOE caps next patch so the 1st 12 people take full damage. This makes Vicious Death more powerful then it ever was in TG.

That's not the change.

Adjusted the Area of Effect damage thresholds for all abilities. The new thresholds are as follows:

Targets 1 – 6: 100% damage taken with all secondary effects applied.
Targets 7 – 24: 75% damage taken with no secondary effects applied (formerly 50% damage taken).
Targets 25 – 60: 50% damage taken with no secondary effects applied (formerly 25% damage taken).

asneakybanana · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I know this didn't receive a lot of fanfare but

They are changing AOE caps next patch so the 1st 12 people take full damage. This makes Vicious Death more powerful then it ever was in TG.

A Sorc can combine Mage's Wrath Explosion with Vicious Death to do 18-22k worth of instant damage to 12 people.

Nightblade Bomb Builds will be better then they ever were....one Nightblade will be able to smash large groups with this.

Guys like Sypher are going to have fun with this...This has been kept very quiet, but the nerf to proc sets, and the AOE cap changes buffing Vicious Death to the moon....just wait and see

If you don't have your Vicious Death jewels, weapons, armor, i'd get them before price goes sky hi.....it will be really really good

VD will probably be about on par with what it is now. If I remember correctly, the aoe caps are only getting slightly adjusted to where the first 6 take full dmg, next 24 take 75% instead of 50% and the last 30 take 50% instead of 25%. Also VD counts as a proc set and you can only hit those 18-22k VDs with crits. It's much more likely that you will see 12-15k VD as the norm on light armor vamps.

I think overall the bomb blade will receive a slight dps nerf due to destro ult nerf and proc set nerfs but still be in a pretty good place. Will be interesting to see come Monday though.

stealthyevil · February 2017

Are you guys sure that VD is not part of that "Proc Nerf" ? Being someone who has reaped full benefit from VD, I think it should be in that category as well.. I don't see why not. It will always be strong whether it crits or doesn't

Koolio · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

To bad it prob can't crit now

AFAIK it still can. Its not considered a proc set, someone has to die from you dealing damage for them to work.

This is almost textbook definition of a "proc"

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2017

Vicious Death Set;

(2 Items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(3 Items) Adds 967 Maximum Magicka

(4 Items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) When you kill a player they violently explode for 16605 Flame Damage to all other enemies in a 4 meter radius.

5pc states, 'When you kill a player'. This tells me that, when the target dies, this effect occurs period. There is no chance, it simply happens.

Compare to Tremor Scale

Tremor Scale Set:
(1 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(2 items) When you taunt an enemy, you have a 50% chance to cause a duneripper to burst from the ground beneath them, dealing 6500 Physical Damage to all enemies within 4 meters and reducing their Movement Speed by 70% for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

2pc states, 'When you taunt an enemy, you have a 50% chance..'. This tells me that there is a chance an additional effect can occur. Thus is a proc.

/my2cents

Sandman929 · February 2017

Has anyone tested VD on the PTS? I've never really considered it a proc set, since it does no damage to the player it "proc's" on. Getting hit by a nearby explosion has always seemed different IMO to having an armor set (worn by attacker)proc damage against me (target).

Of course, if anyone has tested VD on the PTS, we could quickly know if ZOS sees it differently.

NightbladeMechanics · February 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Vicious Death Set;

(2 Items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(3 Items) Adds 967 Maximum Magicka

(4 Items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) When you kill a player they violently explode for 16605 Flame Damage to all other enemies in a 4 meter radius.

5pc states, 'When you kill a player'. This tells me that, when the target dies, this effect occurs period. There is no chance, it simply happens.

Compare to Tremor Scale

Tremor Scale Set:
(1 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(2 items) When you taunt an enemy, you have a 50% chance to cause a duneripper to burst from the ground beneath them, dealing 6500 Physical Damage to all enemies within 4 meters and reducing their Movement Speed by 70% for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

2pc states, 'When you taunt an enemy, you have a 50% chance..'. This tells me that there is a chance an additional effect can occur. Thus is a proc.

/my2cents

Viper is 100%.

This needs to be tested. Mechanical consistency would predict that VD will no longer crit post-patch.

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Viper is 100%.

This needs to be tested. Mechanical consistency would predict that VD will no longer crit post-patch.

Right, however

Viper's Sting:
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

5pc states, 'This effect can occur once every 4 seconds'. So yes it's applicable damage MOST of the time, however, this tells me there is a 4 second interval where the effect cannot occur, this makes me believe it is a proc. VD does not tell us anything about a it not ever occurring after it goes off. It simply happens if/when you kill a target.

I agree it needs to be looked at on PTS.

CyrusArya · February 2017

I highly doubt that VD will be better than it was in thieves guild. What made it so powerful then is that most people were still using light and medium armor. Between the heavy armor meta and the general power creep from the 70 or so more CPs people will have access to, I predict your predication will be wrong.

E: Also you gotta keep in mind that not everybody builds for Zerg fights. I can't see how VD would be best in slot for a magicka 1vX, tank, or healer build.

Nutshotz · February 2017

VD is only going to be BIS for group play or the solo magic sorc/nb.

Especially for bombers like myself

I'm just curious on how well it's going to pan out.

Now as for VD being a proc set. From me testing it on PTS a few weeks ago it wasn't but I haven't been on PTS since than. So zos might have changed it. Who really knows.

But there will be plenty of BIS. Just to soon to tell.

Master_Kas · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

To bad it prob can't crit now

AFAIK it still can. Its not considered a proc set, someone has to die from you dealing damage for them to work.

Sound awsome. I haven't been able to test it , because I crash on the PTS everytime I try to move or after a few minutes

Publius_Scipio · February 2017

Well the consensus has been that come next update magicka will be the way to go for many. I can't really say I am surprised since a great deal of 2016 was spent telling ZOS how "op" stamina was in comparison to magicka.

Minalan · February 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Well the consensus has been that come next update magicka will be the way to go for many. I can't really say I am surprised since a great deal of 2016 was spent telling ZOS how "op" stamina was in comparison to magicka.

Dark Brotherhood and Hist were primarily stamina patches. Lets be honest about it.

Magicka started "coming back" during one Tamriel when the new jewelry, sets, build options, and (overpowered) magicka ultimates put magicka sorc and Nightblade back in the game.

Prabooo · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

To bad it prob can't crit now

AFAIK it still can. Its not considered a proc set, someone has to die from you dealing damage for them to work.

and THAT IS a PROC

Magus · February 2017

Shhh just let it happen.

Publius_Scipio · February 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Well the consensus has been that come next update magicka will be the way to go for many. I can't really say I am surprised since a great deal of 2016 was spent telling ZOS how "op" stamina was in comparison to magicka.

Dark Brotherhood and Hist were primarily stamina patches. Lets be honest about it.

Magicka started "coming back" during one Tamriel when the new jewelry, sets, build options, and (overpowered) magicka ultimates put magicka sorc and Nightblade back in the game.

That's true. But besides I'd say stam sorcs (after ZOS injected them with HGH and roids) what other stam class really honestly gave players a ton of issues? Stam templars even to this day complain about abysmal sustain. And Stam NB, as I have said for a long time now, only really gives anyone a problem at the every edge of the meta spectrum (best gear, gold everything, etc).

An average to above average stam NB build really can't give these DKs and templars in PvP that much trouble face to face. And surely not in a duel. At least thats how I see it.

And I sure as hell would say that in PvE stam NB is definitely not 1st, 2nd, 3rd, maybe not even 4th choice to attempt a trial in if given options.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · February 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Ive always seen VD as a workaround that's needed because of AoE caps. Will be interesting to see how it performs with loosened AoE caps.

Exactly what it is - an option that stam doesnt really have either, which kind of sucks. Ultimately, I find the meta of heavy armor magplars puts a big stopper on this kind of stuff.

I'm a heavy armor magplar who uses VD. It's quite fantastic. Also Shatter Soul into VD is unbelievably great. You should try it sometime.

PenguinInACan · February 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Ive always seen VD as a workaround that's needed because of AoE caps. Will be interesting to see how it performs with loosened AoE caps.

Exactly what it is - an option that stam doesnt really have either, which kind of sucks. Ultimately, I find the meta of heavy armor magplars puts a big stopper on this kind of stuff.

The meta could be a lot worse. I have been sent more angry things for running blessed/guard and ruining someones ult bomb than on any other class/build. (Not to mention the reports because people don't understand blind mechanics)

Paraflex · February 2017

I think the definition of a proc is....more of a if than statement versus a % base chance.

If a player dies they explode so VD set would be defined as a proc set and not get crit dmg bonus.

The 2% to 50% is irrelevant viper is 100% chance and it doesn't state it but Viperis getting a nerf so wouldnt VD?

Viper just says it has a 4 second cooldown....VD doesn't have a cool down I'd image they both are categorized as proc sets.