Is a subscription still worth the benefits?

Ourorboros · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

This new yearly "Chapter" model doesn't decrease sub value: it just doesn't increase it. It's a subtle, but important, difference.

Are we just ignoring that ESO+ went from 4 yearly DLCs to 3, and that to remain current with content requires purchasing a separate expansion whereas before simply subscribing granted access to all non-cosmetic content?

Except there never have been 4 yearly DLC since ESO+ came to be. Much of what has been new to the game is open to everyone, not just subscribers. When I reflect on it, ESO+ has been a zos boondoggle from the beginning.

driosketch · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Currently the only thing my sub grants me access to is a pair of dungeons, which I've only ran once each. I was unsubbed, buying the dlc until craft bags and costume dyeing came along. These, plus expanded items for houses, makes my sub worth it.

billp_ESO · February 2017

I'm not willing to vote with these limited options. And, it depends. The price of a monthly sub is truly only 15 minutes of my work time, so the cost is insignificant. For me personally, 15 minutes of work for a month's worth of crafting bag is worth it.

However, compared to what a sub *used* to mean, it's not worth it. Buying the DLC's is a much better deal than renting them, and you don't get the full game even with a sub. To me, the sub is a crafting bag. That's it.

And since crafting is marginal in this game, I'm not sure it's even worth getting the crafting bag.

The whole thing, sub + nickle-and-dime store + gambling crates + extra cost for expansions, leaves a sour taste. But I enjoy the game and the money actually means nothing to me; so sure, I'll keep subbing and I'll buy the expansion.

Abeille · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

It depends of what is important to you.

I can't pick "Yes" because we do not have access to all content with sub, but I'm fine with paying my subscription for the crafting bag, costume dyes, crowns and the rest of the content bar expansion packs.

rotaugen454 · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Between the crafting bag, the bonus XP for my next 3 Alts, the bonus gold, the costume dyeing, and the 1500 crowns a month, it is worth it to ME. Can't answer for anyone else.

Ourorboros · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Abeille wrote: »

It depends of what is important to you.

I can't pick "Yes" because we do not have access to all content with sub, but I'm fine with paying my subscription for the crafting bag, costume dyes, crowns and the rest of the content bar expansion packs.

Sorry, I would have fixed that option on review, but I accidentally hit Enter, and posted prematurely.

It was supposed to be 'without access'.

SolarCat02 · February 2017

This is a question I am still trying to sort out for myself.

I really like the crafting bag. Inventory management is a complete pain without it. But then again, it really feels like the game was purposely designed that way, to create a headache that only a subscription can resolve.

The 1500 Crowns a month are not worth $15 a month, to me. With sales and the discounts on bulk purchases of Crowns, this is worth only $5 a month, by itself, to me. Tops.

The DLC... I don't know, I don't really use most of it. Thieves Guild for Maw of Lorkhaj, Imperial City and Shadows of the Hist for the dungeons. I don't really like the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, so I have not progressed very far into those, although far right enough to feel comfortable saying that I tried to be interested.

I don't really know. I am still debating if I should turn in the Crowns for the DLC and cancel, or continue to stick it out. I don't know if it's worth it to me.

Abeille · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Ourorboros wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

It depends of what is important to you.

I can't pick "Yes" because we do not have access to all content with sub, but I'm fine with paying my subscription for the crafting bag, costume dyes, crowns and the rest of the content bar expansion packs.

Sorry, I would have fixed that option on review, but I accidentally hit Enter, and posted prematurely. It was supposed to be 'without access'.

Oh okay, I'll pick it on that case then

AFrostWolf · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

I think it's only fair that they increase crowns and or add crown crates to it.

kyle.wilson · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Funny how the majority of people that say it still worth it only mention the craft bag.
While awesome, its hardly worth the cost of membership.

Hiero_Glyph · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Ourorboros wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

This new yearly "Chapter" model doesn't decrease sub value: it just doesn't increase it. It's a subtle, but important, difference.

Are we just ignoring that ESO+ went from 4 yearly DLCs to 3, and that to remain current with content requires purchasing a separate expansion whereas before simply subscribing granted access to all non-cosmetic content?

Except there never have been 4 yearly DLC since ESO+ came to be. Much of what has been new to the game is open to everyone, not just subscribers. When I reflect on it, ESO+ has been a zos boondoggle from the beginning.

I agree, I'm just reciting what ZOS originally promised with ESO+. Still, you can't help but notice that these DLCs have gotten progressively smaller with each release.

driosketch · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

zos has now introduced 'chapters' that will be released annually and are not included with a subscription.

Question, where did they say it would be annually? Morrowind is based off existing game, and most of the stuff has been in the works for over a year. Annually for new expansions seems like an optimistic stretch.

BigBragg · February 2017

I am on the fence on this one...

When I picked the game back up, I was just fine with buying DLC outright. Then the craft bag came and an ease of my inventory struggles tempted me into it. With the crowns and unlimited access to DLC to boot, solid deal. I don't really care about the extra gold, experience, and research time as none of them make a huge dent in anything. Now the business model is changing a bit, and I feel that part of the no housing inventory space is in part due to marketing wanting to keep up the subscription numbers. Especially with them tossing out the debated new Chapter in the model and calling quality of life updates DLC. Don't get me wrong I love these big content updates in the game. It just seems like a lot of spin, and almost leaves me feeling like I am watching some political campaign. I am glad I at least do it on the six month cycle and get a break. Not sure it is worth the full $15 per month. Perhaps it is something that they will choose to rework to better support the customers in this changing market strategy. I doubt it with current trends, but who knows.

Hiero_Glyph · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

driosketch wrote: »

zos has now introduced 'chapters' that will be released annually and are not included with a subscription.

Question, where did they say it would be annually? Morrowind is based off existing game, and most of the stuff has been in the works for over a year. Annually for new expansions seems like an optimistic stretch.

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

A new content Cadence

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter.

sirston · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3749370/#Comment_3749370

Sums up why people are mad.

Ourorboros · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

This new yearly "Chapter" model doesn't decrease sub value: it just doesn't increase it. It's a subtle, but important, difference.

Are we just ignoring that ESO+ went from 4 yearly DLCs to 3, and that to remain current with content requires purchasing a separate expansion whereas before simply subscribing granted access to all non-cosmetic content?

Except there never have been 4 yearly DLC since ESO+ came to be. Much of what has been new to the game is open to everyone, not just subscribers. When I reflect on it, ESO+ has been a zos boondoggle from the beginning.

I agree, I'm just reciting what ZOS originally promised with ESO+. Still, you can't help but notice that these DLCs have gotten progressively smaller with each release.

In truth, there have been updates as often as DLC. By my count we have 5 total DLC: IC, Orsinium, TG, DB, and SoH. That's the content you lose without a sub. Of the remaining ESO+ perks, only the craft bag is significant. Everything added beyond the listed DLC were added to the game for everyone. It may have taken zos a lot of work, debatably made the game better. But they do not reach the level of DLC. zos has been playing fast and loose with subscribers since Day 1. This latest scam is just a continuation.

Ourorboros · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

driosketch wrote: »

zos has now introduced 'chapters' that will be released annually and are not included with a subscription.

Question, where did they say it would be annually? Morrowind is based off existing game, and most of the stuff has been in the works for over a year. Annually for new expansions seems like an optimistic stretch.

Frior said that was the new goal in his announcement today.

MythicEmperor · February 2017

I am only subbed for the craft bag; I buy all DLC manually because you never know what could happen. I cannot argue that the sub isn't devalued for the players who don't, although I can't vote yes as it doesn't affect me, so yes and no.

Leandor · February 2017

Is it worth it for you right now? If yes, why isn't it worth it if something is added outside of it but absolutely nothing is stripped from it's content?

Korah_Eaglecry · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Its not like DLC is going anywhere. We will still get three DLCs every year. And its not the end of the world that once a year the game introduces an Expansion sized DLC that needs to be bought out right (If they even decided to do them like Morrowind, since Morrowind is sort of a special snowflake being that Bethseda is so deeply involved with this). For all we know, Chapters will be accessible via Subs just like other DLCs.

Potenza · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Its more than just a craft bag, its access to all DLC and upcoming DLC, 18000 crowns per year, 10% more xp and gold ...

wiz12268b14_ESO · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

LOL while forums arent indicative it still shows why ZoS can do what they do.

The 100 or so people who said 'yes' cant do math.

Save your 156 buck wait for a crown sale and buy 44000 crowns. Max out all your bag space and buy the extra 4 or whatever it is character slots you can expand to and the crafting bag is moot. You MIGHT have to switch things around here and there but unlikely with a maxed out bank and 12 characters with 200 inventory each.

You can spend a years worth of sub fees on crowns (at 40% sale price) and buy every expansion they have made, the Imperial Edition, all the mounts, bank slots, and 4 character slots and have crowns left over. Quite a few left over actually. That assumes you havent maxed out bank and bag space with in game gold. Which over a years time should be fairly easy to do.

Either way I had a sub I surely wont be subbing after this. I will be buying crowns at sale prices and going from there.

Barkel · February 2017

I dont think its been devalued, and I think it is worth it... If you want everything it offers. If someone wants crown store items+DLC+craft bag+10% bonuses then it'd be worth it to them. If it is only for DLC and craftbag then I don't think so. It's entirely possible to manage without the craft bag and long term it'd be cheaper to just buy the DLC.

Theosis · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

This has all been blown out of proportion. The value of the subscription is just as it was 3 months ago. An expansion is not the same as a DLC. No matter how you explain it, no matter how you twist your logic, it is not the same thing.

Compare to WoW for arguments sake. You pay 15 bucks to play monthly. You still have to buy an expansion and still pay 15 bucks.

With a T-1 sub you play all the DLC, you get the crafter bag, you get 10% gold and xp, you also get trait research etc.. an expansion is much larger than DLC.

Zen needs money to keep making content. Blizzard doesn't give nearly as much to their community.

Iselin · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Up until yesterday the subscription was highly encouraged with access to all content. Today's announcement that this "Chapter" is not a one-of and will be a yearly thing confirms what I suspected yesterday: they have rethought their model and consider that sub benefit to be "too good."

I'll just need to get used to playing without the crafting bag again... no biggie.

/unsubbed

Balamoor · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Yep and I con promise you 3/4 of the folks who voted no will continue to sub.

Considering that there are only 3 paid updates per year that is a huge net loss to profits given that ESO+ guaranteed regular income. I don't think ZOS realizes how significant this expansion change is to their current revenue stream.

You don't seem to understand that the Expansion isn't a

"This is how we live now" type of thing, they are still going to do DLC packs. My prediction 3 DLC packs a year a boxed expansion every two years.

Which means we would be drowning in new content. But the hate machine still will find reason to be hysterical.

Ourorboros · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Theosis wrote: »

This has all been blown out of proportion. The value of the subscription is just as it was 3 months ago. An expansion is not the same as a DLC. No matter how you explain it, no matter how you twist your logic, it is not the same thing.

Compare to WoW for arguments sake. You pay 15 bucks to play monthly. You still have to buy an expansion and still pay 15 bucks.

With a T-1 sub you play all the DLC, you get the crafter bag, you get 10% gold and xp, you also get trait research etc.. an expansion is much larger than DLC.

Zen needs money to keep making content. Blizzard doesn't give nearly as much to their community.

I'll bite. Which of these is a fruit? th?&id=OIP.M47c8bc5ce790f85fadb46a23777b5388o0&w=144&h=141&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

th?&id=OIP.M5a01253b78fde5123737f9b51684e7f2o0&w=180&h=165&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

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Please explain the difference between a DLC and an expansion. Is it really just ten hours of content, the difference between Wrothgar and Morrowind? I haven't bought a game on a disc in years, it's all downloaded. Doesn't that by it's nature make it DLC? As far as zos needing money, if only 10% of users sub, zos earns $10 million a month from just subs. Do you really think only 10% sub? Just how much does it cost to create and maintain?

Ourorboros · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

Balamoor wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Yep and I con promise you 3/4 of the folks who voted no will continue to sub.

Considering that there are only 3 paid updates per year that is a huge net loss to profits given that ESO+ guaranteed regular income. I don't think ZOS realizes how significant this expansion change is to their current revenue stream.

You don't seem to understand that the Expansion isn't a

"This is how we live now" type of thing, they are still going to do DLC packs. My prediction 3 DLC packs a year a boxed expansion every two years.

Which means we would be drowning in new content. But the hate machine still will find reason to be hysterical.

LOL, when have we EVER been drowning in new content? The ONLY major DLC to date has been Wrothgar. Everything else has been small scale, and most of the "quarterly DLC" has been updates to the base game, not new content. When I read Frior listing all the good things they've added to the game, it makes me think of all the resumes I've reviewed, puffed and padded to look good while ignoring anything negative.

idk · February 2017

No, subscription has been devalued with requirement to buy

By all appearances, since Zos is quiet about their business model change during a time new DLCs have not be delivered it would seem the crafting bag is the only reason to sub.

If a DLC is not delivered this will be the secing time since launch Zos has ceased delivering its small packages of updates.

If they have changed their business model again the only real value they can add to subs to keep their value is to give ESO+ an armory to hold our armor which would act similar to the crafting bag.

Balamoor · February 2017

Yes, subscription is worth the cost with access to all content.

Ourorboros wrote: »

Theosis wrote: »

This has all been blown out of proportion. The value of the subscription is just as it was 3 months ago. An expansion is not the same as a DLC. No matter how you explain it, no matter how you twist your logic, it is not the same thing.

Compare to WoW for arguments sake. You pay 15 bucks to play monthly. You still have to buy an expansion and still pay 15 bucks.

With a T-1 sub you play all the DLC, you get the crafter bag, you get 10% gold and xp, you also get trait research etc.. an expansion is much larger than DLC.

Zen needs money to keep making content. Blizzard doesn't give nearly as much to their community.

I'll bite. Which of these is a fruit?

Please explain the difference between a DLC and an expansion. Is it really just ten hours of content, the difference between Wrothgar and Morrowind? I haven't bought a game on a disc in years, it's all downloaded. Doesn't that by it's nature make it DLC? As far as zos needing money, if only 10% of users sub, zos earns $10 million a month from just subs. Do you really think only 10% sub? Just how much does it cost to create and maintain?

So...... you think that game updates that WoW has which contain raids and other content is the same as expansion? I mean after all there is no difference in that and the paid expansions so why should folks pay for them?

The big difference here is Zos tells you...You know what if you don't want to sub monthly you can just buy the DLC pack or you can sub and get all the DLC packs and also we are going to offer a boxed expansion from time to time. I know I know apples and oranges but that's not the same and any another excuse you can pull out of your ear.

Oh noes evil evil duplicitous ZoS!!!!!!!!

Geeze.....the entitlement of some snowflakes.

Do you know what I find interesting?

That many of the forum names of the usual suspects who whizz and moan about everything on this forum have the exact same forum handles as those of a pretty popular competing MMO redit that constantly hates on ZoS.

Makes you wonder.