Speak for yourself. I'm very pleased with this upcoming patch and look forward to it greatly. Maybe you should just get good and realize that the classes are already so close to being balanced, that massive sweeping changes are absolutely not necessary.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Someone says this every patch *yawn*

Because it happens every patch.

Pvp seems to get worse every patch, they ignore problems or don't actually fix them and then introduce more.

I think the issue at hand is the method of making balance changes. ZOS tends to be heavy-handed with changes regardless of them being buffs/nerfs. For example, the haunting curse change which was so drastic and met with quite a lot of criticism.

I think that damage percentage-based or cost-based changes are a good first step to balance (like with incap changes, EotS changes, etc), but I don't see why they don't make these gradual. Why not make some changes, then see if X or Y skill overperforms? It's hard to achieve adequate balance when changes are so drastic because you're basically shooting a moving target. Not only that, many changes from a PvP perspective are only tested on the PTS in duels and not large-scale open world combat. This translates into poor open world PvP experiences for the live server, which has basically become a PTS that evolves on a quarterly basis.

I think everyone would agree more with tactful and well thought gradual changes rather than sweeping changes. You avoid frustrations with players like those who cashed in on desert rose (anyone who thought that was fair was silly) and get more of a welcomed change like the response to the black rose change (which feels fair). In turn, gradual changes really preclude the need for a PTS because it gives you time to open dialogue with the entire base of players available on the live server (provided you aren't coding in new bugs or causing crashes like on the PTS, but I would think that would be an issue with internal QA).

Adenoma wrote: »

I think the issue at hand is the method of making balance changes. ZOS tends to be heavy-handed with changes regardless of them being buffs/nerfs. For example, the haunting curse change which was so drastic and met with quite a lot of criticism.

I think that damage percentage-based or cost-based changes are a good first step to balance (like with incap changes, EotS changes, etc), but I don't see why they don't make these gradual. Why not make some changes, then see if X or Y skill overperforms? It's hard to achieve adequate balance when changes are so drastic because you're basically shooting a moving target. Not only that, many changes from a PvP perspective are only tested on the PTS in duels and not large-scale open world combat. This translates into poor open world PvP experiences for the live server, which has basically become a PTS that evolves on a quarterly basis.

I think everyone would agree more with tactful and well thought gradual changes rather than sweeping changes. You avoid frustrations with players like those who cashed in on desert rose (anyone who thought that was fair was silly) and get more of a welcomed change like the response to the black rose change (which feels fair). In turn, gradual changes really preclude the need for a PTS because it gives you time to open dialogue with the entire base of players available on the live server (provided you aren't coding in new bugs or causing crashes like on the PTS, but I would think that would be an issue with internal QA).

Most modern games get away with gradual changes because they update the game much more frequently. This game gets updates quarterly, it can't afford to sit around and make minuscule adjustments, when the game is in dire need of balance.

Small balance adjustments work when:

-Updates are released on at least a monthly basis
-The game is already in a strong state of balance

Neither of these is true for ESO. Not to mention, there are a lot of obvious flaws that would not cause massive balance shifts but would greatly increase quality of life and functionality of classes. Often times these solutions are obvious and easy-to-implement, it is just that Zenimax chooses not to do so.

More whining from a player that wants to be handed the entire content of an update without any work to get it.

It's going to take a while to get blueprints and mats for your house...Oh No! Or you can spend crown and be the envy of your guild

Housing is the new content. You're just going to have to deal with a free update that gives you the option to buy a house and furnish it. Or not. Your choice. Just like whether you choose to run CoS/Mazz. Or not. But that one you had to pay for.

A LOT of people are looking forward to housing. The complaints about low pop cap are a concern, as well as crown cost of items. But it's all optional cosmetics

On balance changes you do have a point. I was expecting a lot more useless skills to get looked at and buffed to usefulness. It seems like this part of what they promised did not get a lot of cycles

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

More whining from a player that wants to be handed the entire content of an update without any work to get it.

It's going to take a while to get blueprints and mats for your house...Oh No! Or you can spend crown and be the envy of your guild

Housing is the new content. You're just going to have to deal with a free update that gives you the option to buy a house and furnish it. Or not. Your choice. Just like whether you choose to run CoS/Mazz. Or not. But that one you had to pay for.

A LOT of people are looking forward to housing. The complaints about low pop cap are a concern, as well as crown cost of items. But it's all optional cosmetics

On balance changes you do have a point. I was expecting a lot more useless skills to get looked at and buffed to usefulness. It seems like this part of what they promised did not get a lot of cycles

I don't give a two *** about housing. If I had the biggest house with all the furniture in the world I still wouldn't give a damn because it doesn't have any functionality.

Sure, some people do care a lot about housing, but there are a lot of people like me that simply don't. We, in theory, should have still had balance and skill updates to look forward to - but unfortunately not.

I don't know about "the worst patch ever" and "sky is falling" stuff.
But for endgame pve they really have shrunk the dynamic of character types desired for end game raid groups. To me, balance in pve is all characters being useful in trials to some degree and we areally not there yet.

CyrusArya wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You're telling people to get good and then saying the classes are close to be being balanced. Have you looked at what the top raid guilds run? Their team comps certainly don't reflect a system of balanced classes.

In before you tell me top raid guilds don't understand the game.

If top raiding guilds think their presence is by any stretch of the imagination close to being large enough for the game to be balanced around them, then yeah they don't understand the game. There's many aspects of this game, and that's what makes balancing difficult. The most played content is probably questing and vet dungeons, followed by PvP, followed by trials. Well questers don't care about balance, and every class is good enough to complete and farm trials (which is what the majority of raiders are concerned with). The population that is concerned with getting top scores to the point that they would literally cherry pick group composition probably amounts to less than half of 1% of the ESO population. If you think PvP balance or general overall balance should be dictated by the needs of this tiny, tiny subsection...ya you're dillusional.

I'm speaking mostly from a PvP regard, and yes from that perspective I do think the game is relatively balanced.

This is an illogical way of thinking. Endgame PvE and coordinated group PvP is what the game should obviously be balanced around. PvP is more subjective and situational, but PvE is literally just DPS numbers and can be easily analyzed.

Once again, you can look at any modern game and come to this conclusion. For example, Riot Games is not balancing League of Legends based off what bronze and silvers players are doing. They are looking at actual pros that play competitively and balance around that.

With this game it is the same concept. You balance around what the top players are doing.

Also, the effect of disbalance at top level trickles down to everybody else. I know many people who straight up don't participate in stuff like vMOL and competitive trial scores soley because they are not playing the optimal class. If these people were playing a mag Sorc, they would feel much more inclined to actually participate in this kind of stuff. But because they are not playing a desirable setup, it is just a huge turn-off for them.

I have the hope that the slight heavy armor and proc set nerfs might get more players to stop playing tanks and actually play DDs again. Thought, heavy armor is still the best for pvp and proc sets are still better than all other damage sets as it stands now.

Maybe just the hope of a fool and now with this ridiculous frost staff tanking, there will be so many unkillable builds. You don't even need a brain. Hold block and spam harness magicka and you will never run out of magicka.

Worst? Bit of a stretch as that's entirely subjective.

Greediest Patch is more appropriate if you ask me. It's very clear the amount of effort that went into the Crown Store this patch is far greater than anything ZO$ has done before whereas the content they did add to the game itself is pretty small in comparison.

Pretty much every house available in game has a nice Crown price tag on it too, as well as several Crown Exclusive houses to boot. The limitations on the houses are also very, VERY restrictive; from the number of items you can display to the number of people you can even invite to your house. It all just feels off.
The "balance" changes are almost laughable; buff the strong, nerf the weak, and to hell with everything in between. Neither the PvP crowd nor the PvE crowd are overly excited for these balances with some exceptions but the overall consensus isn't exactly good.
The PvP bags aren't terrible but at the same time it's not really adding anything new to the game, just sort of extending where items are found is all.

The absolute ONLY thing this patch has done right is the DPS dummy and even that will be a hurdle just because of how grindy it's going to be getting the mats for it in the 1st place.

Neighbor wrote: »

For months we were promised with a strong Housing system and balance changes. Here is what we got:

- Super grindy housing system that offers no functionality. Not even extra inventory space (what the hell else is a house for?)
- Negligible, half-assed balance changes that do not change a thing
- No new real content

Housing is a joke. PvE is still Elder Staves Online. PvP is nothing but zergs running around with Destro ult, unkillable Templars, and Proc sets. Stupid ideas like Frost Staff tanking get implemented for the new "Warden" class. Maybe instead of making another class, you should actually do some class balancing like you promised. Maybe instead of going through with these horribly thought out ideas, you should actually listen to the player base for once.

The players get neglected once again in favor of money grabbing and short-sightedness. When your quarterly updates become this bad, this is how MMOs die.

The sad truth is the mmo will not die. Look an Star Wars the old Republic, that was mine and my raid groups prime mmo (Hard progress) , now this game has 0 content for over 2 years. Balance updates slow as ***. And when they addres nothing what was needed or wanted.

So this housing and other crown store things give them way more money than eso+ players who are actually here to play the game.

As long as the player base stay this way, all mmorpgs are doomed. Even world of warcraft is going the casual way a long time...