Apparently, TES lore is "disturbing" and "inappropriate"

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2017

If you want to roleplay an enslaver that's ok, just do it. But why do you need the game to actually set up slaves for you ? EIther play with a friend who plays the slave, play with NPCs and pretend they're you slave, pretend you have slaves but they're currently sleeping in the basement or working outside, whatever ! The main tool of roleplaying is your imagination (and the way it interacts with other people's imaginations).

Also, you already have "slaves" : a banker, a fence and an assistant. If you want to parade in town with "slaves" just use those, they'll follow you everywhere.

Finally ... the argument that "killing is bad but it's in the game" is invalid when it comes to deciding what is "appropriate" in a video game because with that argument, *everything* could or should be in the game. For obvious reasons, not *everything" should or could be subject to trivialization via a videogame. Especially in an MMO where players can represent whatever they want with those tools and throw them in the face of other players.

And on a side note, don't blame "society". The Witcher 3 was the most widely acclaimed game of 2015/2016 and it is *everything* but politically correct or toned down. But it's not an MMO and that makes a huge difference. It's made with taste, intelligence, subtlety and artistry. Obviously in an MMO you cannot expect every player to have all these four qualities.

TL/DR : if you think you're being "censored", remember nobody can ever censor your imagination. Use that.

Acrolas · January 2017

As far back as 2015, there were rumblings that Disney was discontinuing all Star Wars Slave Leia merchandise. In 2016, for Bloodlines, Claudia Gray reframed the narrative in a more positive light. Instead of Slave Leia, it's Leia the Huttslayer.

So there's definitely precedent for franchises moving away from their more controversial content.

Meanwhile, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood contextualize their missions. The original thread lacked context, and as this thread came after the "feel free to criticize" comment of the first, I believe they've both intended to bait.

And never use the 'we're all adults here' argument. My ignore list is full, my zone chat is off, and I've caught wind of enough retirement community drama to know that age never equals maturity.

geonsocal · January 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want to roleplay an enslaver that's ok, just do it. But why do you need the game to actually set up slaves for you ? EIther play with a friend who plays the slave, play with NPCs and pretend they're you slave, pretend you have slaves but they're currently sleeping in the basement or working outside, whatever ! The main tool of roleplaying is your imagination (and the way it interacts with other people's imaginations).

Also, you already have "slaves" : a banker, a fence and an assistant. If you want to parade in town with "slaves" just use those, they'll follow you everywhere.

Finally ... the argument that "killing is bad but it's in the game" is invalid when it comes to deciding what is "appropriate" in a video game because with that argument, *everything* could or should be in the game. For obvious reasons, not *everything" should or could be subject to trivialization via a videogame. Especially in an MMO where players can represent whatever they want with those tools and throw them in the face of other players.

And on a side note, don't blame "society". The Witcher 3 was the most widely acclaimed game of 2015/2016 and it is *everything* but politically correct or toned down. But it's not an MMO and that makes a huge difference. It's made with taste, intelligence, subtlety and artistry. Obviously in an MMO you cannot expect every player to have all these four qualities.

TL/DR : if you think you're being "censored", remember nobody can ever censor your imagination. Use that.

ditto...

Dread_Viking · January 2017

yeah thy gave me a Warning for talking to a argonian as a Dunmer

MythicEmperor · January 2017

Dread_Viking wrote: »

yeah thy gave me a Warning for talking to a argonian as a Dunmer

Some much for the "RP" in "MMORPG"

ArchMikem · January 2017

Your intention wasn't to discuss Slavery.

Your intention was to spark hope of having it become a Game Mechanic so you can own your own slaves.

johu31 · January 2017

I saw the previous thread, there were two debating sides and it was locked for no valid reason imo. If people are offended by tes lore then they need to find another game. If moderators are offended by conversation concerning the implementation of tes lore, they need to moderate elsewhere.

MythicEmperor · January 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Your intention wasn't to discuss Slavery.

Your intention was to spark hope of having it become a Game Mechanic so you can own your own slaves.

It was merely a suggestion. Something I thought would be interesting to discuss, as it would fit with the lore. Clearly many do not think so, and the reason I created this thread was not to discuss that, but the fact that the thread was purely based on lore, yet it was closed. This clearly displays the disinterest that ZOS has in the lore of the series.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

Uh, mods? Crack open any of the sermons of Vivec.

This is tame.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

You can appeal locked threads and sometimes get them unlocked but making a second thread will just make them mad .

Cadbury · January 2017

A while back, there was a topic very similar to this posted on the forum of a certain other MMO I once played. The topic asked why we as players couldn't....well, I don't wanna get banned but I 'll just say I'm pretty sure most would find it disturbing and repulsive. There was an overall negative response and the OP admitted it was a suggestion motivated by their own personal...proclivities.

While this game has some dark and unsettling themes, I can certainly understand the need for the developer to not draw attention to certain...darker aspects of society. Lest the developer be accused of trivializing or worse, promoting the behavior.

Zoner · January 2017

It seems that to a certain degree here people are just being triggered by the word 'slave'. People, you gotta stop, read the full original post and at least give it some thought and consideration before you start screeching about how wrong it is.

Things the OP did not say: 'I want to have a slave so that I can re-enact my alpha male fantasies in game. I want mechanics to dress it in rags, beat it to within an inch of its life, and starve it because I love slavery.'

A house npc dressed in normal clothes who adresses you appropriately and of whom no further mention of slavery is made would function perfectly in the capacity OP has asked for. There are plenty of such npcs in the dunmer zones.

Nobody here is asking for slave simulator 2017.

And yes, in TESO there are quests involving women romantically falling in love with animals, non-consensual intercourse, cannibalism (and not just for bosmer), an entire DLC based on murder and another entire dlc based on thievery and crime. There are also brothels, bdsm dungeons with prostitutes (the ebony flask in Ebonheart) forced marriage and various other things. All of it was consciously added to the game by the developers as it is lore appropriate and necessary for the development of the game regarding lore consistency and it not being Hello Kitty Adventure Island.

OP is a dark elf. There is a high likelihood that he would have a house slave regarding his character. It would function as a housecarl in Skyrim. Other races had them too.

Again, this is not real life and nobody is asking for slave simulator: Tamriel unlimited. You can't demand shutdown of a relevant discussion because it has the word 'slave' in it.

starkerealm · January 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Hmm, if it came across like that, it was purely unintentional. I meant the previous thread more as a cool idea, which is backed by lore, but it seems that I turned 99% of the playerbase against me.

That's because there's a huge difference between a discussion on slavery in the Elder Scrolls and wandering onto the boards and asking, "y'all got any lizards for sale?"

But, hey, freedom of speech in action; say something stupid, get told to sit down and shut up.

corrosivechains · January 2017

So, I made that argonian, where's my 5500 crowns?

greylox · January 2017

Age of Conan integrated it fine, slavery should have it's place for npc's and RP purposes. This is a mature fantasy universe after all.

Cadbury · January 2017

greylox wrote: »

Age of Conan integrated it fine, slavery should have it's place for npc's and RP purposes. This is a mature fantasy universe after all.

It certainly had nudity.

greylox · January 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

greylox wrote: »

Age of Conan integrated it fine, slavery should have it's place for npc's and RP purposes. This is a mature fantasy universe after all.

It certainly had nudity.

Aye, and the world didn't cave in....AoC didn't fail because there was nipps

Pallmor · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Cadbury · January 2017

greylox wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

greylox wrote: »

Age of Conan integrated it fine, slavery should have it's place for npc's and RP purposes. This is a mature fantasy universe after all.

It certainly had nudity.

Aye, and the world didn't cave in....AoC didn't fail because there was nipps

Exposed genitalia or slavery. You pick your battles.

Pallmor · January 2017

Pallmor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Wait, the word "r-pe" is starred out?? WTF???

Manpoints · January 2017

You know what I would love to see? Zenimax put forth some effort to employ or empower people who are actually fans of the series rather. I would love to see a complaint ticket responded to by someone that knew the lore being referred to rather than a blue haired sjw type. This is however the new era of the God Emperor, act accordingly ZOS.

Slavery has been a major aspect of every single elder scrolls title, if it is a subject that offends to the point we need to never mention it maybe this is not the title for some people? Maybe those people should never open a history book of ANY civilization in the planets history.Cannibalism, ***, bestiality, all fine but dunmer slavery is too far?

What I haven't seen mentioned is yes there seems to be a change in bethesdas attitude toward its existing lore and aspects to its world...but with this attitude change has nobody questioned what this will mean for future titles? I hope future content isn't watered down inoffensive PC garbage.

RealLifeRedguard · January 2017

While I did roll my eyes about the original thread (if it's the one I'm thinking of), I don't see a reason for it to be deleted in a series where you can literally buy (Morrowind) and torture (Skyrim dark brotherhood quest questline) slaves.

I mean, this entire game is about the literal "King of ***" (though obviously they had to censor this too).

As long as the thread isn't about "Hey guys isn't it so much fun to *** slaves?!" and we discuss in a lore-friendly and tactful manner, I don't see an issue. These ARE incredibly touchy topics, and I understand the reluctance to allow a bunch of faceless people on the internet to talk about it, but they chose to make a game out of this series, so they can't be surprised when we bring these things up.

Molydeus · January 2017

I don't want to enslave anyone, that's not why I play this game. However I do find it amusing how up-in-arms some players get about slavery and prostitution, yet those same players have nothing to say about an entire DLC centered around murdering innocent people. You can even hear them choking and gurgling on their own blood when you stab them to death. It couldn't be more graphic or uncomfortable. It's a sign of the times when our society finds murder and graphic violence entertaining, even in a fantasy game. Priorities, people. One is far worse than the other. Why is one OK and one isn't?

starkerealm · January 2017

Pallmor wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Wait, the word "r-pe" is starred out?? WTF???

Yeah, I wasn't even going to comment on that. The word filter is weird at times.

corrosivechains · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Wait, the word "r-pe" is starred out?? WTF???

Yeah, I wasn't even going to comment on that. The word filter is weird at times.

wait, are people actually surprised that the word for "struggle snuggle" is censored? Cause rope and ripe obviously aren't.

Manpoints · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Wait, the word "r-pe" is starred out?? WTF???

Yeah, I wasn't even going to comment on that. The word filter is weird at times.

I didn't even notice, but I disagree, the word filter isnt "weird at times", it is PC ALL THE TIME.

starkerealm · January 2017

Manpoints wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Wait, the word "r-pe" is starred out?? WTF???

Yeah, I wasn't even going to comment on that. The word filter is weird at times.

I didn't even notice, but I disagree, the word filter isnt "weird at times", it is PC ALL THE TIME.

The PC master race is oppressing the console peasants again? NO!? WELL WHY NOT!?

Cadbury · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

OP has a point. I find the Dark Brotherhood questline WAY more disturbing than the idea of slavery in the game. Allowing the player to commit cold-blooded murder of innocents is about as disturbing as it gets (short of allowing child-murder or ***).

Wait, the word "r-pe" is starred out?? WTF???

Yeah, I wasn't even going to comment on that. The word filter is weird at times.

I didn't even notice, but I disagree, the word filter isnt "weird at times", it is PC ALL THE TIME.

The PC master race is oppressing the console peasants again? NO!? WELL WHY NOT!?

Lord Gaben ordered a ceasefire until he gets his hands on a Nintendo Switch.

starkerealm · January 2017

greylox wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

greylox wrote: »

Age of Conan integrated it fine, slavery should have it's place for npc's and RP purposes. This is a mature fantasy universe after all.

It certainly had nudity.

Aye, and the world didn't cave in....AoC didn't fail because there was nipps

No, it failed because Bylos couldn't be bothered to put in any content for the 21-40 level bracket at launch. So you'd finish up a very directed starter zone, with it's entire story arc, and get dumped into a wasteland with nothing to do.

theslynx · January 2017

To be clear: the thread you made argued that we should be able to keep slaves, and was not abstract discussion of slavery in the lore. Arguing that this is censorship or about 'SJW' sensibilities involves a certain amount of obfuscation. Personally, I think closing the thread was unnecessary, but it's not my call, and we agreed to ZOS' stewardship when we agreed to join this forum.

Beyond that, you're conflating what ZOS has decided is or is not permissible within the game space they own with some broader social framework dictating your actions. That would be like going to someone's house and wanting to talk about your sexual fetishes to the point you don't get invited back again. You can feel disgruntled all you like, but it's not because of some pernicious social agenda towards 'coddling' encroaching upon your freedom; it's their house, their rules.

ZOS made decisions about what to depict and what to include as player interaction. There is slavery in the series, but you're (mostly) unable to engage in it. There's a significant difference there; depiction of acts adds to all that grit that gives the world depth, but ZOS felt uncomfortable with crossing the line into allowing players to engage in it directly. You've presented the choice as 'embrace the darkness for depth' or 'sacrifice all depth,' and that's obviously fallacious.

There's some irony here, too. You can't really argue that we're being coddled by sensitive types who cry when they don't get their way, and then toss around epithets like 'children' and 'triggered SJWs' when people disagree and you don't get your way.