Apparently, TES lore is "disturbing" and "inappropriate"

MythicEmperor

So, I recently made a thread discussing slavery in the Elder Scrolls Online. It is now closed. Why?
"This conversation is not producing constructive conversation and as many find it disturbing and inappropriate we will be closing the thread."
Now, I can understand the reasoning behind the first part. The problem is that the thread had not devolved into anything near petty name calling, so I find this strange. The second part is what truly bothers me. Slavery, as wrong as it is, is an integral part of the Elder Scrolls lore. It is a focal point in Morrowind's main questline. It is the primary reason for tension and distrust in the Pact (creating conflict, and thus plot). It is also a huge part of Dunmer and Ayleid lore and culture. Cultures having evil and cruel elements such as slavery add depth and moral conflict, which makes the world feel more alive.

Before you get on your high horse: Slavery is wrong. So is murder, torture, cannibalism, ritualistic sacrifice, discrimination, racism, thievery, and lying, which are all parts of the Elder Scrolls lore (and yes, even ESO) as well. Slavery is already in ESO (and it is featured in several quests), yet it is not allowed to be discussed on the forums? These are just a few thoughts, feel free to share your own.

Vrienda

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

Tryxus

Start a thread about the Lusty Argonian Maid... and see if that gets locked due to many finding it disturbing and inappropriate

Gilvoth

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

MythicEmperor

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

This is exactly my point. Some casuals who have only played Skyrim waltz in and cherry pick what parts of the lore they want to discuss, and the mods just nod their heads saying "Yes."

MythicEmperor

Tryxus wrote: »

Start a thread about the Lusty Argonian Maid... and see if that gets locked due to many finding it disturbing and inappropriate

Ha, or make a thread about the true nature of MUATRA and VEHK's relations with Molag Bal.

MythicEmperor

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

.... what?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

MythicEmperor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

.... what?

You need to have your sarcasm detector checked.

Vrienda

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Start a thread about the Lusty Argonian Maid... and see if that gets locked due to many finding it disturbing and inappropriate

Ha, or make a thread about the true nature of MUATRA and VEHK's relations with Molag Bal.

That was exactly the piece of lore I was thinking about.

starkerealm

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Gilvoth

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

.... what?

You need to have your sarcasm detector checked.

in no way shape or form was i being sarcastic.
my statement is with pure honesty.

if you look at our society today, it is much different then it was back in the time of morrowinds day and creation.

today, people are greatly offended by things much less then what is found in TES Lore.

FluffyReachWitch

For once I wish we had an "lol" button.

That thread was not a discussion of lore.

That thread was you arguing that the player character should be allowed to have slaves. Many people found that disturbing.

Vrienda

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

What's wrong with that? It'd be awsome to have a few Argonian slaves on my covenant dark elf for housing and roleplay. Slavery is widespread and exists in the elder scrolls universe, I see no reason why we can't take part of it from a role playing perspective.

MythicEmperor

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

.... what?

You need to have your sarcasm detector checked.

No, I am genuinely confused

MythicEmperor

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

Tryxus

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

To quote Elam Drels: "At least murder is swift and sure. A slave dies slowly, one arduous task at a time."

MythicEmperor

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

.... what?

You need to have your sarcasm detector checked.

in no way shape or form was i being sarcastic.
my statement is with pure honesty.

if you look at our society today, it is much different then it was back in the time of morrowinds day and creation.

today, people are greatly offended by things much less then what is found in TES Lore.

We should not have to cater to children and triggered SJWs. The Elder Scrolls lore is amazing and unique, filled with depth and moral angst. It should not be diluted to the point of being unrecognizable. Evil and conflict are what turn the wheels of plot. Slavery is a gear in the lore, and removing it renders the clock(work city) broken. Also, how is the time of Morrowind's creation much different from today? As hard as it may be to believe, people then understood that slavery is evil and barbaric. Sometimes barbarism is needed in a fictional and relatively primitive world.

starkerealm

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

starkerealm

MythicEmperor wrote: »

We should not have to cater to children and triggered SJWs.

I am neither. However, I find your request, singularly repulsive. Why? Because I'm not a 4chan troglodyte.

starkerealm

Tryxus wrote: »

To quote Elam Drels: "At least murder is swift and sure. A slave dies slowly, one arduous task at a time."

I ******* love Elam Drels' comments.

MythicEmperor

FluffyReachWitch wrote: »

For once I wish we had an "lol" button.

That thread was not a discussion of lore.

That thread was you arguing that the player character should be allowed to have slaves. Many people found that disturbing.

A large percentage of Morrowind-based RP guilds have a slavery system in place. BAN EM ALL! Right? Wrong. I find it disturbing that some people wish to silence the lore. No wonder so many people exclude this game from their headcanons. The game has strayed from the lore in so many ways, and I find it disturbing that people wish to further remove it from the single player games.

MythicEmperor

Tryxus wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

To quote Elam Drels: "At least murder is swift and sure. A slave dies slowly, one arduous task at a time."

Well, with necromancy one dies eternally

MythicEmperor

starkerealm wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

To quote Elam Drels: "At least murder is swift and sure. A slave dies slowly, one arduous task at a time."

I ******* love Elam Drels' comments.

At least we can agree on something.

starkerealm

MythicEmperor wrote: »

FluffyReachWitch wrote: »

For once I wish we had an "lol" button.

That thread was not a discussion of lore.

That thread was you arguing that the player character should be allowed to have slaves. Many people found that disturbing.

A large percentage of Morrowind-based RP guilds have a slavery system in place. BAN EM ALL! Right? Wrong. I find it disturbing that some people wish to silence the lore. No wonder so many people exclude this game from their headcanons. The game has strayed from the lore in so many ways, and I find it disturbing that people wish to further remove it from the single player games.

You know, if you have two consenting RPers, who want to do a Master/Slave thing... that's their choice. It's weird, messed up, but they're participating together, so it's clearly a mutual decision. That wasn't what you were asking for, though.

Oakmontowls_ESO

It is an interesting phenomenon that people are more offended by the inclusion of slavery than in inclusion of the murder of innocent people. In a game series that commonly has elements of slavery and murder, where the only thing prohibited is the murder of children, it is strange that the only thing people seem to take offence to is slavery. In comparison to other threads where people were asking for the ability to use lore based drugs, slavery is vastly abhorred. What exactly about slavery causes this kind of unparalleled reaction in people.
Back on the topic of this thread though, I feel that while owning slaves is not something that ZoS is going to add to their game, discussing the addition of a feature like that in a constructive way is something that should definitely be allowed on these forums.

Abeille

Tryxus wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

To quote Elam Drels: "At least murder is swift and sure. A slave dies slowly, one arduous task at a time."

Drals.

But you get an "awesome" for quoting my NPC crush.

He finishes that one with "Enough to make the Night Mother weep", if I remember it correctly, or something along these lines. I really should write his quotes down, that would surely creep him out.

Bouldercleave

I can't really believe that you are trying to bring lore into the picture at all.

The thread that got locked was your way of implementing actual slavery and prostitution into the game.

Lore has NOTHING to do with what you want. What you want is to be a predator.

MythicEmperor

starkerealm wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

That's a terrible justification for it's inclusion. One of Molag Bal's sobriquets is, the God of ***. Which is, incidentally, what he did to Lamae Bal when he created the first vampires. Also, Serana, her mother, and possibly Verandis. But, I think we can all step back and understand why that's not an option open to the player.

There are a lot of legitimately horrible things floating around in the setting. Which, on its own is fine. But, that doesn't mean the player should be allowed to indulge in them indiscriminately. Especially when it would only serve to cater to 4chan trolls wandering in and looking for an echoing chamber of their distorted worldview.

Well, the thing is that what you are referring to was never visually shown to the players. In Morrowind, you acquire a slave for the main quest. You witness slavery in ESO as well. Do you ever see what you are referring to, besides in books? Of course you don't. This is the difference.

Gilvoth

MythicEmperor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we should let bethesda and zenimax take the lead on this and put it in thier hands friends.
this is more complex and legal issues in this then we know about.
i would hate to see Elderscrolls both single player and this mmo be deleted due to legal issues and lawsuits.

lets let zenimax and bethesda lead us the way we should go.
it is for the best.

.... what?

You need to have your sarcasm detector checked.

in no way shape or form was i being sarcastic.
my statement is with pure honesty.

if you look at our society today, it is much different then it was back in the time of morrowinds day and creation.

today, people are greatly offended by things much less then what is found in TES Lore.

We should not have to cater to children and triggered SJWs. The Elder Scrolls lore is amazing and unique, filled with depth and moral angst. It should not be diluted to the point of being unrecognizable. Evil and conflict are what turn the wheels of plot. Slavery is a gear in the lore, and removing it renders the clock(work city) broken. Also, how is the time of Morrowind's creation much different from today? As hard as it may be to believe, people then understood that slavery is evil and barbaric. Sometimes barbarism is needed in a fictional and relatively primitive world.

oh, i agree with you 100% friend but, its not the case with society at present.

if you look at youtubes new rules and regulations ? that is just a small taste of what our society has become.
right now they will not monitise videos that include swearing or anything that mentions murder.
that includes video game reviews.

now those rules are not yet being enforced, but those rules none the yet are infact now inplace as of 1/1/2017

MythicEmperor

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

It is an interesting phenomenon that people are more offended by the inclusion of slavery than in inclusion of the murder of innocent people. In a game series that commonly has elements of slavery and murder, where the only thing prohibited is the murder of children, it is strange that the only thing people seem to take offence to is slavery. In comparison to other threads where people were asking for the ability to use lore based drugs, slavery is vastly abhorred. What exactly about slavery causes this kind of unparalleled reaction in people.
Back on the topic of this thread though, I feel that while owning slaves is not something that ZoS is going to add to their game, discussing the addition of a feature like that in a constructive way is something that should definitely be allowed on these forums.

This is understandable. I was simply trying to point out a random idea I had floating in my head after reading a thread about assistants, and, being a fan of Dunmer lore (especially Kirkbride's work), I couldn't help myself.

Tryxus

Abeille wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Wait what? We're not allowed to discus lore anymore if it's 'disturbing'?

Have the mods read some of the lore? Most of it is pretty messed up.

No, we're not allowed to start threads asking for slaves that we can use as pack mules. At which point, I have to ask; was anyone surprised by that thread getting locked? I mean, really? @MythicEmperor started a thread asking for the ability to keep slaves. How did people think that was going to end?

Well, it is part of the Elder Scrolls games. Many people requested for the dark brotherhood before it released. It is focused around murder and cult-like activities. How is this morally better than my suggestion?

To quote Elam Drels: "At least murder is swift and sure. A slave dies slowly, one arduous task at a time."

Drals.

But you get an "awesome" for quoting my NPC crush.

He finishes that one with "Enough to make the Night Mother weep", if I remember it correctly, or something along these lines. I really should write his quotes down, that would surely creep him out.

There's a UESP page with all of them (DB Contracts i think...)