Please give DKs back our Flames of Oblivion (AoE)

Ishammael · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@sebban
Have you used the old version of Flames of Oblivion because man it was insane
Do note this was before combat was updated so the values seem low but base it on porpotion with the health the enemies have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aHgR4n1CI

RIP ESO

Sigtric · January 2017

I have it on good authority that @ZOS_RichLambert 's attention can be bought with Canadian beer

Just sayin

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Sigtric
Well I'll buy @ZOS_RichLambert a 12 pack of Canadian beer if it just gets him to look at the responses regarding flames of oblivion on this form and the dragon knight PTS form. If he were to implement it (making it go back to an AoE and doing one of the features suggested) I would be super happy and excited about the DK class again.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Sigtric
I don't see it working

he hasn't been lured to this forum post

Sigtric · January 2017

He is an elusive critter for sure. Doesn't easily take the bait.

MaxwellC · January 2017

This is what I wanna hear you say @ZOS_RichLambert

Duragon_Darko · January 2017

This was an amazing power. Don't understand why we got this nerfed. When I picture a Dragon Knight, this is it.

Anhedonie · January 2017

Duragon_Darko wrote: »

This was an amazing power. Don't understand why we got this nerfed. When I picture a Dragon Knight, this is it.

Because people got PTSD from times when dynamic ultimate generation was a thing. Now DKs are stripped of all cool and unique features, but people still have an impression, that DK is op.
And maelstrom weapon makes things even worse.

ZoM_Head · January 2017

Activating Inferno should give the DK major expedition for 10 seconds or so, basically the same as Hurricane or Boundless Form, we could really use this mobility in Cyrodiil IMO.

Zakor · January 2017

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Activating Inferno should give the DK major expedition for 10 seconds or so, basically the same as Hurricane or Boundless Form, we could really use this mobility in Cyrodiil IMO.

No, don't give us just the same. We want something fun and unique again. Also, major expedition should be on wings.

DoJohn · January 2017

I wasn't playing back then, was it good?

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

the skill is called flames of oblivion... not flame
why do we get one tiny ball?
AOE BABY. WE NEED IT. FLAMESSSSS

MaxwellC · January 2017

@DoJohn
On this forum post there's a video showing the amazing ability, I suggest you check it out!.

pieratsos · January 2017

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Activating Inferno should give the DK major expedition for 10 seconds or so, basically the same as Hurricane or Boundless Form, we could really use this mobility in Cyrodiil IMO.

Zakor wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Activating Inferno should give the DK major expedition for 10 seconds or so, basically the same as Hurricane or Boundless Form, we could really use this mobility in Cyrodiil IMO.

No, don't give us just the same. We want something fun and unique again. Also, major expedition should be on wings.

No and no. Stop asking for mobility buffs. You are not a sorc and you are not nightblade. You are supposed to be able to hold ur ground. If you want mobility slot mist form or rapids or use expedition pots. Get rid of the useless expedition from chains and replace it with a cc. Make dragon blood reliable. Inferno an AOE that buffs dots and mDK is fine. Then u can also nerf the heal from burning embers and revert the dmg changes to volatile and whip.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos
I wouldn't like chains being able to CC (quite sure they already do unless I'm mistaken). I never slot them in PvP anymore due to how unreliable they are and only use it in PvE on my tank.
Also there a thing about the 'hold your ground' statement... we lost that a while ago due to game changes that have left our passives outdated as they have hardly been changed even when it's influenced us. Dynamic ultimate regeneration is one as battle roar was suppose to be where we'd get our sustain but due to the changes in battle roar we now do not have the best sustain (Sorcerers do) so we cannot hold our ground.

I am glad that you respect the idea of flames of oblivion going to an AoE or at-least it seems + giving increased DoT damage to our DK only abilities (since I believe buffs that your class provides when it comes to added damage should only be affected by your class skills...yeah looking at you Incapacitating strike).

Zakor · January 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Activating Inferno should give the DK major expedition for 10 seconds or so, basically the same as Hurricane or Boundless Form, we could really use this mobility in Cyrodiil IMO.

Zakor wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Activating Inferno should give the DK major expedition for 10 seconds or so, basically the same as Hurricane or Boundless Form, we could really use this mobility in Cyrodiil IMO.

No, don't give us just the same. We want something fun and unique again. Also, major expedition should be on wings.

No and no. Stop asking for mobility buffs. You are not a sorc and you are not nightblade. You are supposed to be able to hold ur ground. If you want mobility slot mist form or rapids or use expedition pots. Get rid of the useless expedition from chains and replace it with a cc. Make dragon blood reliable. Inferno an AOE that buffs dots and mDK is fine. Then u can also nerf the heal from burning embers and revert the dmg changes to volatile and whip.

I agree with you on the "hold the ground" statement. Well, I would, but that statement is actually a thing of the past. It used to be like that but with all the changes we suffered it's not like that anymore (MaxwellC explained that already).
If that would return (and an AoE Inferno would be a good step for that) we won't need mobility buffs, until then they are welcome.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Zakor
Don't get me wrong I do not mind Mag Dks getting mobility from wings but it would most likely need to be minor expedition rather than major.
All in all I just want that Flames of Oblivion AoE back lol I'm going crazy!

Zakor · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Zakor
Don't get me wrong I do not mind Mag Dks getting mobility from wings but it would most likely need to be minor expedition rather than major.
All in all I just want that Flames of Oblivion AoE back lol I'm going crazy!

I'm absolutely with you on that one. Expedition isn't the point here, it's Inferno going back to be an AoE. And yes, I mean Inferno and BOTH morphs, FoO and Cauterize. Time to give the DK-Heal something usefull, too.

MaxwellC · January 2017

I agree they both need some work to it, some people like cauterize but the fact that it cannot heal you is pretty annoying. I've suggested making it a ground heal steal that provides healing to your allies while draining the enemy of health or even making it drain magicka while doing damage to the enemy which would aid the sustain issue.

pieratsos · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos
I wouldn't like chains being able to CC (quite sure they already do unless I'm mistaken). I never slot them in PvP anymore due to how unreliable they are and only use it in PvE on my tank.
Also there a thing about the 'hold your ground' statement... we lost that a while ago due to game changes that have left our passives outdated as they have hardly been changed even when it's influenced us. Dynamic ultimate regeneration is one as battle roar was suppose to be where we'd get our sustain but due to the changes in battle roar we now do not have the best sustain (Sorcerers do) so we cannot hold our ground.

I am glad that you respect the idea of flames of oblivion going to an AoE or at-least it seems + giving increased DoT damage to our DK only abilities (since I believe buffs that your class provides when it comes to added damage should only be affected by your class skills...yeah looking at you Incapacitating strike).

Only thing chains do now is give free cc immunity. Whether its reliable or not as a gap closer it doesnt matter. Even if it was reliable it would still not be used cause there is just no place for it. Toppling charge was also a piece of crap for templars that half times didnt even fire but it was still being used cause it was providing a gap closer + cc. Thats how chains should work and thats the only way it will be used. Something like pull ur enemy to you and knock him to the ground which actually fits the im holding my ground and u are not getting away theme. Putting useless speed buffs and making it undodgeable isnt going to make chains better. So stop asking expedition buffs on any skill. You will still be rooted and permasnared and major or minor expedition isnt gonna do sh*t to help with that. And on top of that, all this useless speed buffs and dmg buffs are whats keeping them from addressing the actual issues of the class. Just because DKs cant hold their ground anymore it doesnt mean that people should be asking for a class overhaul. No one wants to play a fire version of sorc with mobility and burst.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos
Wasn't sure if it gave free CC or if it did anything other than moved them since I don't use it in PvP but you've cleared it up so yeah that'll be a good change if it CCs them upon pulling them but nonetheless stop claiming this 'hold your ground' thing to DKs. When that actually becomes a thing again then we can talk about it but as of now that isn't anywhere near happening, at-least this patch from the looks of it especially with sustain issues.

I do not care if we receive speed buffs or not as stated above, my reasons for thinking that way is based on trying to get to the enemy when using wings as you're reflecting objects since after a CC you can easily throw down an immovable potion and get away with LoS. I do feel that one thing that still needs to be addressed even if it hurts this class is the soft CC spam which needs to be fixed ASAP.

MaxwellC wrote: »

I do not mind Mag Dks getting mobility from wings but it would most likely need to be minor expedition rather than major.

pieratsos · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos
Wasn't sure if it gave free CC or if it did anything other than moved them since I don't use it in PvP but you've cleared it up so yeah that'll be a good change if it CCs them upon pulling them but nonetheless stop claiming this 'hold your ground' thing to DKs. When that actually becomes a thing again then we can talk about it but as of now that isn't anywhere near happening, at-least this patch from the looks of it especially with sustain issues.

I do not care if we receive speed buffs or not as stated above, my reasons for thinking that way is based on trying to get to the enemy when using wings as you're reflecting objects since after a CC you can easily throw down an immovable potion and get away with LoS. I do feel that one thing that still needs to be addressed even if it hurts this class is the soft CC spam which needs to be fixed ASAP.

MaxwellC wrote: »

I do not mind Mag Dks getting mobility from wings but it would most likely need to be minor expedition rather than major.

But thats the point. We should be asking for buffs that will actually help with that. The way it was designed. Not speed buffs or burst buffs. Minor expedition is exclusive to sorcs that are built around mobility and it should stay that way. DKs should not have that.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos
I've already provided feedback based on what we would need to effectively hold our ground yet it's met with "Mag DK is in a good spot now" or "Stam DK is too OP" so if you wanna provide some feedback on it that's fine.

I'm still wanting my Flames of Oblivion AoE that needs to return to us and if only one class can have something like it then it's time for sorcerers to give back that which was lent to them.

Zakor · January 2017

@MaxwellC

It wouldn't need to be completly different from FoO, actually it just needs to be FoO with damage changed to healing. That would make the skill far better. Than add something like "Cauterize stacks" that work like the current fireballs and heal any target below 50% in an area around you including yourself as long as you have those stacks (should be around 4). This would improve 3 things:

Idle time the current cauterize has between fireballs. In this version it would be brided by the cloak heal
Not knowing if fireballs of the current version are wasted since the new version would only fire burst heals if the targets actually need healing.
Healing when you need it instead of every 5 seconds. Since those fireballs would as soon as needed you would improve the DKs ability to heal more than one low target (like templars do with BoL for example). Furthermore, the burst heals are capped to 4 for every cast of cauterize which balances the whole thing (number is kinda arbitrary and could need adjustments). This also means you could use those stacks in the first few seconds and would only have the cloak for the remaining duration (or recast) or you have those stacks as preemptive lifesaver over the whole duration and may not need them. What you could depend on would be the healing cloak.

As a healing morph it wouldn't even need crit chance so we could change that to something that adds more sustain and we're done with a damn awesome healing ability. Maybe this could even end the debate about dragonblood since it would be a reliable burst heal with those stacks.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Zakor
That seems like an interesting twist and maybe you could change the color to a blue flame (even though I would want that for FoO AoE).
This would be good but depending on the heal you do it probably shouldn't heal you directly but maybe just apply minor health steal to the target near it. More precisely depending on if they make dragon's blood a decent heal then it would need to go that route.

All in all that changes seems interesting but would need to be determined if the heal is changed for the better on dragon's blood and it's morphs.

Zakor · January 2017

@MaxwellC
I like the idea with the blue flames. Directly had to think of the atro in WGT and how awesome that could look.

As for the minor health steal: I'm not sure if I understand you correctly with that. The point is that the ability needs some kind of basic that you can depend on as heal in every situation (so you can be sure the ability wouldn't be wasted in any way). As is also think of PvE the health steal would directly destroy the ability for boss fights or raids I assume, since the heal would be very low if existent due to there being only one boss, a spread out group and a healer shouldn't actually stand close to the boss to debuff it with health steal. The direct healing cloak would work far better.
I think of the cloak heal as 500 heal per person per second with decent heal gear. Thats a bit weaker than the current lifesteal debuff but the more you invest into healing the stronger it gets. I would cap it at 1k/person/second thus adding up to 4k HPS in a dungeon group and up to 6k (due to 6 target restriction) in a raid as passive healing (halved for PvP ofc). And looked upon like that it IS really strong.

But you are right that, if db will be changed, the burst shouldn't heal yourself anymore, only the cloak. This would add a little bit to our survival while not making us unkillable.

Carbonised · January 2017

Guys, you're being much too kind and polite. Rich specifically stated it was "due to the overwhelming response from the community" that Haunting Curse got unnerfed (and buffed further).

We need more overwhelming response, we need more uproar. We are Dragonknights for crying out loud!

We want flames!

We want flames!

We want flames!

Zakor · January 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Talk to us. We want our old inferno since we need it. The new inferno doesn't substitute it. And we don't want it in U14 or U15, we want it in U13 since you promised us DK changes "we would like". We liked our old inferno! Talk to us.

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

I felt the need to create this thread because I feel as though we will never get it back. I'm not asking for the old version where the negative effects where applied to you such as draining magicka consistently since sorcerers get one that gives them three buffs.

I want Flames of Oblivion (AoE) to do a few new things (note not all have to be implemented). I want it to increase DoT damage you apply (yes only you) by 15-20%, @Wrobel had stated something about wanting DoTs in PvP to start hurting you not something that you just casually out heal/shield stack through.

Flames of Oblivion can could also apply minor expedition when being used. It could even apply minor ward/minor resolve (although I feel that could be OP).

If anything I just want the extra DoT damage alongside having our critical increase while having it go back to the version it used to be before (an AoE). This is an assumption but the reason why this ability was changed into a toggled option was due to performance issues as stated on patch notes 1.6.5. You can imagine the look on my face when sorcerers received the same exact ability we use to have but instead they received buffs while using it. The real issue was the fact we lost it but another class gains it, Dks need more AoE and having this ability reworked back into it's original AoE state dealing x amount of flame damage a second while providing critical and increased DoT damage would be an excellent triumph return of the ability that made me choose this class and stick by this class (Dragon Knight).

-Discuss.

It's too good for mindless zergs

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Sugaroverdose
I'd love to know how this is 'too good for mindless zergs' that statement is incredibly confusing. There's already an ability out there called 'hurricane' yet I do not see zergs all running it so do elaborate on what you meant by that.

@Zakor
Yeah if the heal is 1k capped then that's fine alongside it's burst fireball heal but it healing you as you noticed all depends on dragon's blood being fixed.