Please give DKs back our Flames of Oblivion (AoE)

MaxwellC

I felt the need to create this thread because I feel as though we will never get it back. I'm not asking for the old version where the negative effects where applied to you such as draining magicka consistently since sorcerers get one that gives them three buffs.

I want Flames of Oblivion (AoE) to do a few new things (note not all have to be implemented). I want it to increase DoT damage you apply (DK ability DoTs) by 15-20%, @Wrobel had stated something about wanting DoTs in PvP to start hurting you not something that you just casually out heal/shield stack through.

Flames of Oblivion can could also apply minor expedition when being used. It could even apply minor ward/minor resolve (although I feel that could be OP).

If anything I just want the extra DoT damage alongside having our critical increase while having it go back to the version it used to be before (an AoE). This is an assumption but the reason why this ability was changed into a toggled option was due to performance issues as stated on patch notes 1.6.5. You can imagine the look on my face when sorcerers received the same exact ability we use to have but instead they received buffs while using it. The real issue was the fact we lost it but another class gains it, Dks need more AoE and having this ability reworked back into it's original AoE state dealing x amount of flame damage a second while providing critical and increased DoT damage would be an excellent triumph return of the ability that made me choose this class and stick by this class (Dragon Knight).

-Discuss.

Sigtric

They want DK's to be all about pressuring enemy health bars with no execute by way of DoTs? yep. Give us FoB with AoE DoT that is really worth slotting.

I mean, Grothdarr proc is what it should be, probably. I'd be happy with that.

MaxwellC

@Sigtric
When I saw Grothdarr I was like wow there goes my ability being used in a monster set now. They really need to give me my flaming swirl back as it's an AoE that would be extremely beneficial especially in this point in time.

MaxwellC

@ZOS_RichLambert please at least allow us to test it in PTS we've been calling for flames of oblivion to be an AoE as it applies pressure to the target consistently and if it increased DoT damage by 20% it would literally make DoTs somewhat challenging to simply out heal or shield over.

My stamina DK needs more AoE while my Mag DK needs stronger DoTs. Just give us a chance so we can actually have something that was a cornerstone if not a representation of the class we chose way back then. I've played Mag DK since Craglorn release n I've playedc stamina DK since console release then made another Mag after IC dropped. I just miss this skill the most and a majority of the players in the feedback form have given you an 'overwhelming outcry' in regards to making flames of oblivion an AoE. There's around 40 comments suggesting it if not more and others agreeing with them.
Please just one chance, you given sorcerers something that was going to be nerf'd but instead made it stronger.

Anhedonie

Flames Of Oblivion totally should be made into AOE. Now when developers figured out this mechanics, they should give us back this ability. And make another morph deal poison damage.

Also, while sorc's Flames of Oblivion Lightning Form gives protection and mobility, DK's FoM should cover different areas. Like, increasing dot damage or making resource managment easier, giving burst regen or magicka stealing effect (different buff from the one elemental drain has now). Sustain is in a bad shape now.
Or maybe something even more creative like refreshing dots at the end of their duration or making them unpurgable when enemy is in range of FoM effect.

lucky_Sage

yes it should be changed to a AOE and given one a stam morph or mag DD morph

give you major crit buff

magmorph should use a magicka sustain buff or a dot dmg buff

MaxwellC

@Anhedonie
Those are some great ideas and I definitely agree with them especially magicka steal upon usage or even slotted which would assist in the sustain issues Mag DK suffers.

Draxys

A blanket increase in DoT damage would probably be crazy overpowered in pve. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, but something to consider.

MaxwellC

@Draxys
yeah it would be powerful especially on 2 DoTs (rend/venomous claw which can crit over 20k) but for the others I can't really say. Some DoTs do go above 12k and added together you could see an extra 15-20k over all increased damage if we count all DoTs sooo how about we make it class specific DoT damage increase.

So Flames of Oblivion will blanket buff 20% DoT damage of class specific DoT skills. Mag DKs will still generate more use while stam DKs will receive a lot more use out of it as an AoE + increasing venom/nox breath.

Wolfchild07

Yes, give it back. I miss that ability. I never even use the one it was changed to, it's so lackluster and boring.

Carbonised

Perhaps one of the most important DK topics here on the PTS.

It seems that universally there is great disappointment that devs failed to adress Inferno/Cauterize in this so-called magDK balancing patch (Wrobel's words about having magDKs in mind for this update).

There seems to be a great desire of a complete rework of the Inferno skill, or rather, a return to the original form of the skill, that is, some kind of AOE like Grothdarr or Hurricane. There have been various suggestions as to numbers and effect, but the current glowball Inferno skill is by no means satisfactory for the DK players, not even mentioning the rediculous morph of Cauterize.

While we're at it, and while we're also talking about magDK sustain this update, it is overdue to look at the Inhale morphs as well. Deep breath is obviously the better morph due to secondary stun effect, while the Draw Essense morph was nerfed last update, in regards to magicka return. Draw essence needs to be looked at as well, at least the magicka return part. As of right now, there is really no reason to pick this one over Deep Breath, unless you particularly like and enjoy the mixed blue/red flames of the morph, which I happen to do.

MaxwellC

^Yup that's definitely correct. I'm trying to garner some sort of attention from @ZOS_RichLambert or @ZOS_GinaBruno because many people not just myself really want the old AoE for flames of oblivion back. I really miss my class defining skill, it was the skill that made me choose Dragon Knight and all I want is for it to come back.

OrphanHelgen

MaxwellC wrote: »

I felt the need to create this thread because I feel as though we will never get it back. I'm not asking for the old version where the negative effects where applied to you such as draining magicka consistently since sorcerers get one that gives them three buffs.

I want Flames of Oblivion (AoE) to do a few new things (note not all have to be implemented). I want it to increase DoT damage you apply (yes only you) by 15-20%, @Wrobel had stated something about wanting DoTs in PvP to start hurting you not something that you just casually out heal/shield stack through.

Flames of Oblivion can could also apply minor expedition when being used. It could even apply minor ward/minor resolve (although I feel that could be OP).

If anything I just want the extra DoT damage alongside having our critical increase while having it go back to the version it used to be before (an AoE). This is an assumption but the reason why this ability was changed into a toggled option was due to performance issues as stated on patch notes 1.6.5. You can imagine the look on my face when sorcerers received the same exact ability we use to have but instead they received buffs while using it. The real issue was the fact we lost it but another class gains it, Dks need more AoE and having this ability reworked back into it's original AoE state dealing x amount of flame damage a second while providing critical and increased DoT damage would be an excellent triumph return of the ability that made me choose this class and stick by this class (Dragon Knight).

-Discuss.

I think it could be a good idea if the critical hit chance buff to apply the same way it does for the templar jabs. After activation, you get the crit buff for x amount of seconds. Now its a passive while slotted, making it completely useless unless you have evil hunter on your backbar. This is due to the bug where the crit from this skill overrides the crit buff from potions. Also this is one of the reasons I cant use flames of oblivion in vmol hardmode, because I need both caltrops and vigor on backbar. Before hardmode, I can unslot vigor and replace with evil hunter.

MaxwellC

^I get that point but I'm ok with the current version of it now if we change it to apply when activated only if it still shows up on your main bar then I'd be ok with it applying still since I activated it. I use it on my stam dps for trials (only on my main bar) so I know what you mean having to switch bars can cause a change in DPS since you're not getting that extra 10%.

Armitas

What ever happens to it it can't be an ad hoc skill. We have so many skills that we have to carry around that there often isn't room for FoO even now. It needs to function well enough that we can replace a current ability with it. For that to work I think it needs to provide both damage and survival. So I can replace a damage skill or a survival skill to add this to my tool box.

For example.
Inferno - base morph does an aoe dot and an aoe hot that restores magicka on crit (self heal as well)
Morph 1 adds 10% dodge chance
Morph 2 increases the hot.

On the PvE side of things it would be beneficial to lose this from the current, eye bleeding, rotation we already go through provided that dps potential of it was moved elsewhere into the rotation.

victorhrpereira

Anhedonie wrote: »

Flames Of Oblivion totally should be made into AOE. Now when developers figured out this mechanics, they should give us back this ability. And make another morph deal poison damage.

Also, while sorc's Flames of Oblivion Lightning Form gives protection and mobility, DK's FoM should cover different areas. Like, increasing dot damage or making resource managment easier, giving burst regen or magicka stealing effect (different buff from the one elemental drain has now). Sustain is in a bad shape now.
Or maybe something even more creative like refreshing dots at the end of their duration or making them unpurgable when enemy is in range of FoM effect.

That idea of making the dots not purgeable while in the range of FoM is actually nice, since it's one of the main problems dots are weak in pvp, especially againts templars. Besides that, I would also add a small dot and some snare effect (not much ofc, but more noticiable than what we have now with ardent flame abilities) to slow down enemies e keep pressure on them. Since DK's aren't supposed to be mobile, they have to make up for it by reducing others movement speed.

Ishammael

First, Hurricane was given to Sorcs. Then they made the Grothdar set. Both of which are carbon copies of the original Inferno.

I have always imagined mDK as the class that gains in strength the more people it is fighting. Would love to see a self buff that does something like increased ultimate generation based on the number of enemies around you. Or a HoT that increases in potency with number of enemies. Or the 5-pc bonus from Mark of the Pariah which gives you armor the lower you are in health.

Zakor

Armitas wrote: »

What ever happens to it it can't be an ad hoc skill. We have so many skills that we have to carry around that there often isn't room for FoO even now. It needs to function well enough that we can replace a current ability with it. For that to work I think it needs to provide both damage and survival. So I can replace a damage skill or a survival skill to add this to my tool box.

For example.
Inferno - base morph does an aoe dot and an aoe hot that restores magicka on crit (self heal as well)
Morph 1 adds 10% dodge chance
Morph 2 increases the hot.

On the PvE side of things it would be beneficial to lose this from the current, eye bleeding, rotation we already go through provided that dps potential of it was moved elsewhere into the rotation.

@Armitas I'm not sure if I understand your idea correctly. You suggest to give the base ability both, damage AND healing, aswell as a magicka restore? While it seems a bit overpowered I would like that idea. 2 more points:
Who would benefit from the 10% miss chance? Only the caster?
And why just an flat increase for the hot? From a healers perspective it would be more usefull to build up to 4 stacks of "Cauterize" that would fire an instant heal to a target (like now) that is below 50% health (includes self)(Edit: This could also solve the problem around db since it would be a reliable heal...). As DK heal you miss something like BoL for those "OH DAMN" moments. Healing ward is strong but it's our only tool for that + it's single target while for example BoL is not.

I would increase the damage/hot for each morph since they would be specialised in doing damage or healing. This way you would have to choose between either healing and staying alive or doing damage and maybe end fights faster.

MaxwellC

@Armitas
Those are good ideas but I feel the 10% dodge added would make it a bit too OP especially since it won't be considered a major evasion buff thus allowing anyone who uses shuffle to stack 15% (new change) + 10% to have 25% chance of missing all attacks.
Everything else you've stated I'm definitely fine with as well.

Armitas

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Armitas
Those are good ideas but I feel the 10% dodge added would make it a bit too OP especially since it won't be considered a major evasion buff thus allowing anyone who uses shuffle to stack 15% (new change) + 10% to have 25% chance of missing all attacks.
Everything else you've stated I'm definitely fine with as well.

Oh yeah it would stack wouldn't it. I wonder how 15% would be.

MaxwellC

I really just hope this will get some sort of look by @Wrobel or @ZOS_RichLambert
I really want this skill back as do many others, I feel it's only fair to bring what was taken from us back to the game. It may be too late but I still won't give up.

NBrookus

I kinda like the idea of making dots unpurgeable while in the area of effect -- but agree it needs to have a secondary skill with it to make it worth slotting on crowded bars.

Spitballing:
Base: AoE Damage
Morph #1: Damage + enemy players can't purge flame DoTs
Morph #2: Damage + Major Evasion

MaxwellC

@NBrookus
Those are good but one morph still has to provide the critical we receive now + if DoTs can't be purged well it doesn't stop heals outpacing them so why not add dragon knights DoT abilities gain 20% more damage for x amount of seconds if the target is caught in the flame vortex (Flames of Oblivion).

sebban

I actually like FOO, the single target DPS is fairly good. What I would like is the duration to match our other DOT durations. Either make it ~10s or increase duration to ~18s like Eruption. The damage could use a slight boost.

MaxwellC

@sebban
Have you used the old version of Flames of Oblivion because man it was insane
Do note this was before combat was updated so the values seem low but base it on porpotion with the health the enemies have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aHgR4n1CI

Armitas

MaxwellC wrote: »

@sebban
Have you used the old version of Flames of Oblivion because man it was insane
Do note this was before combat was updated so the values seem low but base it on porpotion with the health the enemies have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aHgR4n1CI

Too painful to watch. I'm going to go sob into a bucket of icecream now.

NBrookus

MaxwellC wrote: »

@NBrookus
Those are good but one morph still has to provide the critical we receive now + if DoTs can't be purged well it doesn't stop heals outpacing them so why not add dragon knights DoT abilities gain 20% more damage for x amount of seconds if the target is caught in the flame vortex (Flames of Oblivion).

Could be an AOE Major or Minor Defile instead. Stacking unpurgeable DOTs with something like Durok's/BSW would be... well I'd sure want to try it but it would probably be OP.

Sigtric

MaxwellC wrote: »

@sebban
Have you used the old version of Flames of Oblivion because man it was insane
Do note this was before combat was updated so the values seem low but base it on porpotion with the health the enemies have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aHgR4n1CI

I forgot what it looked like.

I mean, function aside, it just looks so much better than its current form.

MaxwellC

@NBrookus
Nah we cant put a major/minor defile because that would literally make Mag DKs OP since you could talon up and fossilize with that being on them. Even stam DKs would be OP being able to gap close while having an immediate debuff apply on a target that reduces their healing consistently would be way over.


@Sigtric
I know right doesn't it look amazing I mean wow and it's functionality is way better.

@Armitas
Yeah I'm with you I looked at the video and was like wow I remember playing this game after seeing a video where someone was using this ability. I immediately said "I want to be the class with that flaming vortex" and thus I joined the game but as time went on so did the main reason why I played the DK class (Flames of Oblivion).

Zakor

@MaxwellC
Thanks for the video. Almost forgot how it was to have such a great skill. Now I'm sad that we have to fight that hard to get it back while sorcs got it for free.

Make Inferno great again!

MaxwellC

@Zakor
I know I get kinda jumpy, excited, and sad because I feel this time we could get a change but always deep back in my mind I feel it's too late or @ZOS_RichLambert will never notice/give us a shot.