The whole argument against letting people hide vampirism is ridiculous

Dawnblade · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Only reason why it's out of hand is because people are salty that they're tired of vampires. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's because Lycanthropy hasn't been deemed all that viable to major builders. Maybe it's because they think that it's an OP skill that doesn't belong.

What is for certain is that the diatribes they present are pretty much out of spite; there's no real definitive argument that's been presented in either topic so far and any attempt at it's either been sad, pathetic, or both.

Give us a toggable skill that has to be slotted to disguise it for a certain amount of time. Make us waste a skillpoint. Or make it a disguise. I really don't care. But for a simple mechanic to not match up with the lore is pretty annoying.

With the call to it, you'd think we're asking for class nerfs... But we're not. The salt is hilariously amazing over it.

Because some of us already feel for certain builds, vampire is better than non-vampire - and yet we don't want to be vampires nor do we want to gimp our characters by not having the skills.

And there are already threads of vampires complaining that the skill lines aren't powerful enough, demanding they be improved even more, so who knows maybe they will keep whining until the line is obviously OP.

Now if vampires were a race / class or replaced your base race / class and then balanced against the others - then fine, you might have a point about being able to hide your looks.

But as an option that lets you gain an entire set of extra skills and passives making your character even more powerful, sorry, but if you want the option, then deal with the downsides including appearance limitations.

Or if looks are more important to you - just don't choose to be a vampire.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Dawnblade wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Only reason why it's out of hand is because people are salty that they're tired of vampires. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's because Lycanthropy hasn't been deemed all that viable to major builders. Maybe it's because they think that it's an OP skill that doesn't belong.

What is for certain is that the diatribes they present are pretty much out of spite; there's no real definitive argument that's been presented in either topic so far and any attempt at it's either been sad, pathetic, or both.

Give us a toggable skill that has to be slotted to disguise it for a certain amount of time. Make us waste a skillpoint. Or make it a disguise. I really don't care. But for a simple mechanic to not match up with the lore is pretty annoying.

With the call to it, you'd think we're asking for class nerfs... But we're not. The salt is hilariously amazing over it.

Because some of us already feel for certain builds, vampire is better than non-vampire - and yet we don't want to be vampires nor do we want to gimp our characters by not having the skills.

And there are already threads of vampires complaining that the skill lines aren't powerful enough, demanding they be improved even more, so who knows maybe they will keep whining until the line is obviously OP.

Now if vampires were a race / class or replaced your base race / class and then balanced against the others - then fine, you might have a point about being able to hide your looks.

But as an option that lets you gain an entire set of extra skills and passives making your character even more powerful, sorry, but if you want the option, then deal with the downsides including appearance limitations.

Or if looks are more important to you - just don't choose to be a vampire.

LOL! No. Just no. Cosmetic and theorycrafting aren't comparable. And even then, if your build isn't viable without vampire; then you're building it wrong. So just don't choose to be that build. Simple.

Edit; As for racials I'd give you that if it was made from it's inception; however it's a trivial thing to drabble on about and hardly worth discussing. So I have to ignore that as well. So again, no.

Emencie · January 2017

I don't understand this debate at all...

If you don't want to look like a vampire all you have to do is feed. That's the entire mechanic right?
When you feed you look a little pale, but otherwise normal. If you let the monster out, then you look like a monster.

Or is it just that you want more vampire skin tones at stage 1?

idk · January 2017

arcadiadark wrote: »

In reading another thread here I feel the whole argument that's being thrown around is that its one of the downsides of looking like a vampire and to deal with it, use a skin etc... stop telling us to deal with it, if you want to look like a vampire its fine but don't force it on us and tell us how to play the game just because you think vampires should look like it. you can hide vampirism with wearing covered motifs and you can use disguises and with skins that i earned which are equally hidious so why cant i earn a skin to look normal? plus addons tell you if a person is a vampire anyway on pc. quest in friggin rivenspire and you can see varandis ravenwatch hiding his vampirism perfectly fine so don't give me this "its a different strain so its lore" as if a npc can hide it why cant we? I am a master vampire so why havnt I learned the ability to hide it by now? I would spend one of my 327 skillpoints if I could to hide my vampirism or love to unlock it as a skin from being a master vampire. At this point I would even buy it from the crown store...

tldr its cute that you all think vampires shouldn't be able to hide their vampirism but I gave you a lore reason along with equally restrictive and hideous bypasses for hiding it. if you want vampires to look like that just stay looking like a vampire? a smart vampire would blend in to the crowds in the city anyway. cosmetic changes will not increase my dps or give me an advantage over other players...

@arcadiadark and some of us consider it ridiculous that people want the benefit of being a vampire without it being clear they are vulnerable which in an MMO trumps lore, though I do not recall Varandis hiding his vampirism. It is clear he is a vampire by looking at him.

See, no one is forcing anyone to look like a vampire, it is a choice to become one in the first place and therefore no force involved. Anyone can cure themselves for a small cost at any time.

WWs benefit from being a WW only when they are in form and they are vulnerable only when they are in form. It would be odd if they could be a WW and transform and no one could tell they were a WW because they could hide it. Same goes for Vampires.

I am not going to say deal with it, I will merely say if you do not like it then cure yourself. Easy fix.

Gorgoneus · January 2017

arcadiadark wrote: »

In reading another thread here I feel the whole argument that's being thrown around is that its one of the downsides of looking like a vampire and to deal with it, use a skin etc... stop telling us to deal with it, if you want to look like a vampire its fine but don't force it on us and tell us how to play the game just because you think vampires should look like it. you can hide vampirism with wearing covered motifs and you can use disguises and with skins that i earned which are equally hidious so why cant i earn a skin to look normal? plus addons tell you if a person is a vampire anyway on pc. quest in friggin rivenspire and you can see varandis ravenwatch hiding his vampirism perfectly fine so don't give me this "its a different strain so its lore" as if a npc can hide it why cant we? I am a master vampire so why havnt I learned the ability to hide it by now? I would spend one of my 327 skillpoints if I could to hide my vampirism or love to unlock it as a skin from being a master vampire. At this point I would even buy it from the crown store...

tldr its cute that you all think vampires shouldn't be able to hide their vampirism but I gave you a lore reason along with equally restrictive and hideous bypasses for hiding it. if you want vampires to look like that just stay looking like a vampire? a smart vampire would blend in to the crowds in the city anyway. cosmetic changes will not increase my dps or give me an advantage over other players...

Its just hypocritical people who telling about "LORE reasons" to abort any wise idea for comfot increase, but shuting up and talking about "balance" in any PvP discussion.
I'm whole agree with you, but I'm afraid this stuff will be awaiable for crown store only (because of dont breack balance so we can sell it) and only if it will be released because there is alot of all satisfied people (sounds like very dangerous sickness) who dont need any changes.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Emencie wrote: »

I don't understand this debate at all...

If you don't want to look like a vampire all you have to do is feed. That's the entire mechanic right?
When you feed you look a little pale, but otherwise normal. If you let the monster out, then you look like a monster.

Or is it just that you want more vampire skin tones at stage 1?

Part of the problem is that at any stage, it covers any and all markings applied either most of the way (generally your face paints) or completely. Which people buying these markings from the Crown Store could potentially lose out on the ability to have that being that it's that insane and hardly normal. That alone, I'd compromise for. How would dye under the skin outpale those colors. This even applies to face paints. How does vampirism pale facepaint when it's not beneath the skin?

However there's a little more involved with it. Certain things shouldn't dim with the skin tone and people know this. Others, like myself, have argued the lore standpoint (which in my opinion should be a timed and slotted skill).

Other parts of it is that people use the stage mechanics in RP to metagame, which presents a problem. Or the simple fact that if a group see you at stage 4 and running vCoA II will boot you regardless if your character is their strongest at stage 4 (which is what I always run at most of the time). Those two aren't drawbacks via game mechanic.

Edited for further clarity on who'll give you the boot with vampirism with a little added explanation.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

arcadiadark wrote: »

In reading another thread here I feel the whole argument that's being thrown around is that its one of the downsides of looking like a vampire and to deal with it, use a skin etc... stop telling us to deal with it, if you want to look like a vampire its fine but don't force it on us and tell us how to play the game just because you think vampires should look like it. you can hide vampirism with wearing covered motifs and you can use disguises and with skins that i earned which are equally hidious so why cant i earn a skin to look normal? plus addons tell you if a person is a vampire anyway on pc. quest in friggin rivenspire and you can see varandis ravenwatch hiding his vampirism perfectly fine so don't give me this "its a different strain so its lore" as if a npc can hide it why cant we? I am a master vampire so why havnt I learned the ability to hide it by now? I would spend one of my 327 skillpoints if I could to hide my vampirism or love to unlock it as a skin from being a master vampire. At this point I would even buy it from the crown store...

tldr its cute that you all think vampires shouldn't be able to hide their vampirism but I gave you a lore reason along with equally restrictive and hideous bypasses for hiding it. if you want vampires to look like that just stay looking like a vampire? a smart vampire would blend in to the crowds in the city anyway. cosmetic changes will not increase my dps or give me an advantage over other players...

@arcadiadark and some of us consider it ridiculous that people want the benefit of being a vampire without it being clear they are vulnerable which in an MMO trumps lore, though I do not recall Varandis hiding his vampirism. It is clear he is a vampire by looking at him.

See, no one is forcing anyone to look like a vampire, it is a choice to become one in the first place and therefore no force involved. Anyone can cure themselves for a small cost at any time.

WWs benefit from being a WW only when they are in form and they are vulnerable only when they are in form. It would be odd if they could be a WW and transform and no one could tell they were a WW because they could hide it. Same goes for Vampires.

I am not going to say deal with it, I will merely say if you do not like it then cure yourself. Easy fix.

Please see this thread and you'll clearly see his vampirism is hidden.

Gorgoneus · January 2017

Guys, please, dont tell any bloolsh.. here, lot of MMOs hase an option to hide any stuff like this. swtor for example just hase 2 options in character "doll" menu: hide head slot and hide dark side corruption (its work fir any of 5 corruption's stages). So dont be so hypocritical, this is MMORPG and people want to have joy from it and dont tell me about LORE and other stupid stuff because everybody pissing on LORE in Cyrodiil, all races, classes and skills are balanced without LORE. WHat can I say? Do you want to play breton warrior and be one-shotted by ans Orc or Nord warrior just because its LORE? You choosed this race and class so DEAL WITH IT. Oh noooo you want a perfect balance in PvP. I'll tell you one thing: there is no PvE or PvP - there is one damned GAME and people want to play a GAME just 1 entire game, if they want unlore PvP they'll play any PvP session game.
PS: this is just one DAMNED APPEARANCE SLIDER no other then hide helmet or dye station so DEAL WITH IT.

Balticthunder · January 2017

Oh, babes want to be gothic wampires, but still look like beauty queens, right?

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Balticthunder wrote: »

Oh, babes want to be gothic wampires, but still look like beauty queens, right?

That's quite the assumption there. Not everyone wants to be 'beauty queens'. I want facepaint and tattoos to work like they should; which is the same bug as how certain types of equipment doesn't allow dyes (primal epaulets are a 'prime' example). That's not going for beauty. That's calling out something that doesn't work. Would the other stuff be nice? Sure would. But given the incapability of anything constructive on these forums I have a snowballs chance in hell of hearing a unicorn fart than reasoning with the naysayers over something that isn't working as intended.

PS4_ZeColmeia · January 2017

I have no problem with not being able to hide vampirism. The only issue i have is that all skin related crown store stuff (like markings) don't stick when you rezone if you have vampirism. That really grinds my gears.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom any clue when this will get resolved? This is a big big deterrant to buy anything skin related if you choose be a vamp (aka you are losing money).

Balticthunder · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Balticthunder wrote: »

Oh, babes want to be gothic wampires, but still look like beauty queens, right?

That's quite the assumption there. Not everyone wants to be 'beauty queens'. I want facepaint and tattoos to work like they should; which is the same bug as how certain types of equipment doesn't allow dyes (primal epaulets are a 'prime' example). That's not going for beauty. That's calling out something that doesn't work. Would the other stuff be nice? Sure would. But given the incapability of anything constructive on these forums I have a snowballs chance in hell of hearing a unicorn fart than reasoning with the naysayers over something that isn't working as intended.

Ah, c'mon, most of babe characters want them to look like hollywood wampires, no the current stage 4 uglies, thats why this threads pop up, otherwise write in bug section if it messes up your tattoos.

Aliyavana · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

arcadiadark wrote: »

In reading another thread here I feel the whole argument that's being thrown around is that its one of the downsides of looking like a vampire and to deal with it, use a skin etc... stop telling us to deal with it, if you want to look like a vampire its fine but don't force it on us and tell us how to play the game just because you think vampires should look like it. you can hide vampirism with wearing covered motifs and you can use disguises and with skins that i earned which are equally hidious so why cant i earn a skin to look normal? plus addons tell you if a person is a vampire anyway on pc. quest in friggin rivenspire and you can see varandis ravenwatch hiding his vampirism perfectly fine so don't give me this "its a different strain so its lore" as if a npc can hide it why cant we? I am a master vampire so why havnt I learned the ability to hide it by now? I would spend one of my 327 skillpoints if I could to hide my vampirism or love to unlock it as a skin from being a master vampire. At this point I would even buy it from the crown store...

tldr its cute that you all think vampires shouldn't be able to hide their vampirism but I gave you a lore reason along with equally restrictive and hideous bypasses for hiding it. if you want vampires to look like that just stay looking like a vampire? a smart vampire would blend in to the crowds in the city anyway. cosmetic changes will not increase my dps or give me an advantage over other players...

@arcadiadark and some of us consider it ridiculous that people want the benefit of being a vampire without it being clear they are vulnerable which in an MMO trumps lore, though I do not recall Varandis hiding his vampirism. It is clear he is a vampire by looking at him.

See, no one is forcing anyone to look like a vampire, it is a choice to become one in the first place and therefore no force involved. Anyone can cure themselves for a small cost at any time.

WWs benefit from being a WW only when they are in form and they are vulnerable only when they are in form. It would be odd if they could be a WW and transform and no one could tell they were a WW because they could hide it. Same goes for Vampires.

I am not going to say deal with it, I will merely say if you do not like it then cure yourself. Easy fix.

No. Verandis ravenwatch... Google it... or a quick playthrough through rivenspires story will show you. Rivenspire also has a great story you should try it some time

Emencie · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

I don't understand this debate at all...

If you don't want to look like a vampire all you have to do is feed. That's the entire mechanic right?
When you feed you look a little pale, but otherwise normal. If you let the monster out, then you look like a monster.

Or is it just that you want more vampire skin tones at stage 1?

Part of the problem is that at any stage, it covers any and all markings applied either most of the way (generally your face paints) or completely. Which people buying these markings from the Crown Store could potentially lose out on the ability to have that being that it's that insane and hardly normal. That alone, I'd compromise for. How would dye under the skin outpale those colors. This even applies to face paints. How does vampirism pale facepaint when it's not beneath the skin?

However there's a little more involved with it. Certain things shouldn't dim with the skin tone and people know this. Others, like myself, have argued the lore standpoint (which in my opinion should be a timed and slotted skill).

Other parts of it is that people use the stage mechanics in RP to metagame, which presents a problem. Or the simple fact that if a group see you at stage 4 and running vCoA II will boot you regardless if your character is their strongest at stage 4 (which is what I always run at most of the time). Those two aren't drawbacks via game mechanic.

Edited for further clarity on who'll give you the boot with vampirism with a little added explanation.

These seem like two completely different requests.

In the first you are seeming to ask for vampirism to not overwrite tattoos or face paint at stage 1. Which I would guess is a reasonable request to most players. The Devs seem to agree with the idea that at stage 1 vampires should look more or less normal. And to maintain that the player must feed often. Makes sense.

But your second request seems to be a desire to hide your vampirism from other players to either trick them, or make them believe falsely that you are not playing a stage 4 vampire. Which is likely where you get a lot of backlash from in these topics. You cannot hide your class, your WW form, or your weapon type. Why should you be able to hide your stage 4 vampirism? Especially since Stage 4 Vampirism has always been something you couldn't hide. I'm pretty sure in every ES game.

Push for ZOS to make stage 1 more normal looking, that is the only one that makes sense.

Cherryblossom · January 2017

arcadiadark wrote: »

In reading another thread here I feel the whole argument that's being thrown around is that its one of the downsides of looking like a vampire and to deal with it, use a skin etc... stop telling us to deal with it, if you want to look like a vampire its fine but don't force it on us and tell us how to play the game just because you think vampires should look like it. you can hide vampirism with wearing covered motifs and you can use disguises and with skins that i earned which are equally hidious so why cant i earn a skin to look normal? plus addons tell you if a person is a vampire anyway on pc. quest in friggin rivenspire and you can see varandis ravenwatch hiding his vampirism perfectly fine so don't give me this "its a different strain so its lore" as if a npc can hide it why cant we? I am a master vampire so why havnt I learned the ability to hide it by now? I would spend one of my 327 skillpoints if I could to hide my vampirism or love to unlock it as a skin from being a master vampire. At this point I would even buy it from the crown store...

tldr its cute that you all think vampires shouldn't be able to hide their vampirism but I gave you a lore reason along with equally restrictive and hideous bypasses for hiding it. if you want vampires to look like that just stay looking like a vampire? a smart vampire would blend in to the crowds in the city anyway. cosmetic changes will not increase my dps or give me an advantage over other players...

How about just drinking some blood, you will be back to your old self in no time.

Aliyavana · January 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

arcadiadark wrote: »

In reading another thread here I feel the whole argument that's being thrown around is that its one of the downsides of looking like a vampire and to deal with it, use a skin etc... stop telling us to deal with it, if you want to look like a vampire its fine but don't force it on us and tell us how to play the game just because you think vampires should look like it. you can hide vampirism with wearing covered motifs and you can use disguises and with skins that i earned which are equally hidious so why cant i earn a skin to look normal? plus addons tell you if a person is a vampire anyway on pc. quest in friggin rivenspire and you can see varandis ravenwatch hiding his vampirism perfectly fine so don't give me this "its a different strain so its lore" as if a npc can hide it why cant we? I am a master vampire so why havnt I learned the ability to hide it by now? I would spend one of my 327 skillpoints if I could to hide my vampirism or love to unlock it as a skin from being a master vampire. At this point I would even buy it from the crown store...

tldr its cute that you all think vampires shouldn't be able to hide their vampirism but I gave you a lore reason along with equally restrictive and hideous bypasses for hiding it. if you want vampires to look like that just stay looking like a vampire? a smart vampire would blend in to the crowds in the city anyway. cosmetic changes will not increase my dps or give me an advantage over other players...

How about just drinking some blood, you will be back to your old self in no time.

Idk, when I caught VERANDIS RAVENWATCH (did you even quest in rivenspire or did you grind and skip the beautiful story did zos created? Tes is one of the best story universes so you should try querying sometime as restricting yourself to certain sections of the game sounds dull to me) feasting in his castle he looked vampiric to me. And earlier he told me he hid his vampirism to blend in

Jeremy · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I think vampires look cool. So personally, I don't care about this.

The best argument against your suggestion is that it prevents people from being able to tell who is a vampire. You point out you can hide this anyway by wearing a costume. But is that really the case? Because when I put on a costume I still look like a vampire.

So my preference is that they keep it the way it is. If it bothers other players that much, I could live with allowing players to hide the monster though. There are numerous examples of vampires hiding their true form, so it wouldn't be an unreasonable change. But when it comes to my list of priorities, this isn't even on the list.

Costumes are different than polymorphs. Disguises are different than costumes as well. So it really is the case that it totally conceals your character's vampirism. You can also be fully clad in various styles where you 100% don't show skin.

Tell me; can you deduce which character is a vampire and which isn't? Or is this not preventing deduction of vampirism?

There is a difference in covering up your face with a helmet so people can't see that you are a vampire - and then being a vampire yet not looking like one. In my post I was referring to the latter.

I assumed that disguise meant a costume.

Fair point about polymorphs and skins - but these items are designed to alter your character into something else. So I would not compare them as being the same as having the option to hide the characteristics of your race or as in this case your vampirsm.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Emencie wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

I don't understand this debate at all...

If you don't want to look like a vampire all you have to do is feed. That's the entire mechanic right?
When you feed you look a little pale, but otherwise normal. If you let the monster out, then you look like a monster.

Or is it just that you want more vampire skin tones at stage 1?

Part of the problem is that at any stage, it covers any and all markings applied either most of the way (generally your face paints) or completely. Which people buying these markings from the Crown Store could potentially lose out on the ability to have that being that it's that insane and hardly normal. That alone, I'd compromise for. How would dye under the skin outpale those colors. This even applies to face paints. How does vampirism pale facepaint when it's not beneath the skin?

However there's a little more involved with it. Certain things shouldn't dim with the skin tone and people know this. Others, like myself, have argued the lore standpoint (which in my opinion should be a timed and slotted skill).

Other parts of it is that people use the stage mechanics in RP to metagame, which presents a problem. Or the simple fact that if a group see you at stage 4 and running vCoA II will boot you regardless if your character is their strongest at stage 4 (which is what I always run at most of the time). Those two aren't drawbacks via game mechanic.

Edited for further clarity on who'll give you the boot with vampirism with a little added explanation.

These seem like two completely different requests.

In the first you are seeming to ask for vampirism to not overwrite tattoos or face paint at stage 1. Which I would guess is a reasonable request to most players. The Devs seem to agree with the idea that at stage 1 vampires should look more or less normal. And to maintain that the player must feed often. Makes sense.

But your second request seems to be a desire to hide your vampirism from other players to either trick them, or make them believe falsely that you are not playing a stage 4 vampire. Which is likely where you get a lot of backlash from in these topics. You cannot hide your class, your WW form, or your weapon type. Why should you be able to hide your stage 4 vampirism? Especially since Stage 4 Vampirism has always been something you couldn't hide. I'm pretty sure in every ES game.

Push for ZOS to make stage 1 more normal looking, that is the only one that makes sense.

They seem like it, but it isn't. Tattoos and face paints (or any body paint for that matter) should NOT be affected by any stage of vampirism what so ever. Again, how exactly would paint on top of the skin pale in complexion with the face? It's an absurd, silly bug. Furthermore, tattoo dyes don't pale within the skin immediately. It's through fibroblast absorption that does this.

The second is from a lore perspective, yet having a willing compromise as in the lore it does state we should be able to deceive. Go through the vampire quests (Rivenspire and the actual vampirism skill line quest); tell me that they don't say that. In single player games; Vampire Seduction was used to conceal it, not to mention completely different strains. Lycanthropy is a completely different paradigm you're trying to argue, and weapons aren't even remotely comparable. These aren't relevant arguments to vampirism as you (and many others) are neglecting a few things.

Lycanthropy is a shifting disease. Not a parasitic disease. That's like comparing PC to Console. It doesn't work.
TES Single player strains of vampirism varies; some damage in the sun, others sag with less feedings, and Skyrim was more beastly with DLC (though non-DLC vampires were weakened by the sun). Comparing these strains would be comparing several types of a similar species in the same genus. While there are similarities, there are vast differences as well.
Based on much of this game's lore there's two questlines that says we should be able to.

These are facts. While loosely watered down (because I can't be bothered to google that for you) hard ones, they are none the less facts. The only reason why people are against it is because they can't be bothered to pay attention. If people don't want it in Cyrodiil; HAVE IT DISABLED IN CYRODIIL OR PVP OF ANY KIND. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to get to that conclusion.

HOWEVER, as you started putting words in my mouth, I said I was willing to compromise if they fixed the facepaints and tattoos from dulling in color because that's not how those things should operate.

Edit; @Emencie I also encourage you to participate in this test. Pick out the vampire;

Karius_Imalthar · January 2017

I was just thinking that maybe a system where the longer real-time you have vampirism then the better you are at hiding it. For example, after 1 month you can have the appearance of one stage higher, at 2 months, 2 stages, at 4 months then you can appear as stage 1 while at stage 4. It's just an idea. I'm not crazy about the vampire appearance but, like they say, "Love the skin you're in."

Aliyavana · January 2017

I wouldn't mind adding a 4 part vampiric passive that hides your vampirism by 1 level so that if you want to look stage 1 you inert 3 skillpoints or 4 to look like a human

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I think vampires look cool. So personally, I don't care about this.

The best argument against your suggestion is that it prevents people from being able to tell who is a vampire. You point out you can hide this anyway by wearing a costume. But is that really the case? Because when I put on a costume I still look like a vampire.

So my preference is that they keep it the way it is. If it bothers other players that much, I could live with allowing players to hide the monster though. There are numerous examples of vampires hiding their true form, so it wouldn't be an unreasonable change. But when it comes to my list of priorities, this isn't even on the list.

Costumes are different than polymorphs. Disguises are different than costumes as well. So it really is the case that it totally conceals your character's vampirism. You can also be fully clad in various styles where you 100% don't show skin.

Tell me; can you deduce which character is a vampire and which isn't? Or is this not preventing deduction of vampirism?

There is a difference in covering up your face with a helmet so people can't see that you are a vampire - and then being a vampire yet not looking like one. In my post I was referring to the latter.

I assumed that disguise meant a costume.

Fair point about polymorphs and skins - but these items are designed to alter your character into something else. So I would not compare them as being the same as having the option to hide the characteristics of your race or as in this case your vampirsm.

What exactly, pray tell, is the difference? How it's concealed? The same outcome is achieved and in PvP, unless they're running addon's, no one's the wiser.

As for polymorphs and skins; they are comparable to the point that people were making; that they wanted to know who was a vampire and who wasn't. With those, again, it covers it up. My point is the PvP argument is at best an attempt at QQing over something as harmless as a vampiric disguise.

Soafee · January 2017

Answer this:

Does being a Vampire give you benefits during PVP?

If you answered yes, than you'll never be able to hide it. People need to know if you're a werewolf/vampire in pvp or it's going to become imbalanced. "I didn't know he was a vampire so I didn't use the right rotation."

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Soafee wrote: »

Answer this:

Does being a Vampire give you benefits during PVP?

If you answered yes, than you'll never be able to hide it. People need to know if you're a werewolf/vampire in pvp or it's going to become imbalanced. "I didn't know he was a vampire so I didn't use the right rotation."

Uhm... Again. Armor can HIDE your vampirism. Polymorphs and skins can HIDE your vampirism. How do you tell someone is a vampire with those polymorphs and skins? I'd looooove a direct answer.

Edit: Also, if you're relying on a certain rotation to JUST kill vampires in Cyrodiil or dueling, you're doing it wrong. What should you be worried about? if someone is using a costume and running Black Rose, Malubeth, or the dozens of proc sets that'll get you killed faster than some vampire having extra regen, Dark Stalker and Undeath. It's easy to manage someone coming at you with bats. A neverdying mist-tank does the same thing without vampirism and Elusive Mist. If you need a rotation to kill a vampire, then you need to take a look at what crutches your waving.

DurzoBlint13 · January 2017

is this about hiding vampirism completely or making Vamps look like Vamps?

IMO you should NOT be able to just hide being a Vamp. If you want the benefits you have to take the penalties too.

However, if you want to actually look like a Vampire, I am all for it. The visual effect for a Vamp in ESO is terrible.

Jeremy · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I think vampires look cool. So personally, I don't care about this.

The best argument against your suggestion is that it prevents people from being able to tell who is a vampire. You point out you can hide this anyway by wearing a costume. But is that really the case? Because when I put on a costume I still look like a vampire.

So my preference is that they keep it the way it is. If it bothers other players that much, I could live with allowing players to hide the monster though. There are numerous examples of vampires hiding their true form, so it wouldn't be an unreasonable change. But when it comes to my list of priorities, this isn't even on the list.

Costumes are different than polymorphs. Disguises are different than costumes as well. So it really is the case that it totally conceals your character's vampirism. You can also be fully clad in various styles where you 100% don't show skin.

Tell me; can you deduce which character is a vampire and which isn't? Or is this not preventing deduction of vampirism?

There is a difference in covering up your face with a helmet so people can't see that you are a vampire - and then being a vampire yet not looking like one. In my post I was referring to the latter.

I assumed that disguise meant a costume.

Fair point about polymorphs and skins - but these items are designed to alter your character into something else. So I would not compare them as being the same as having the option to hide the characteristics of your race or as in this case your vampirsm.

What exactly, pray tell, is the difference? How it's concealed? The same outcome is achieved and in PvP unless they're running addon's no one's the wiser.

As for polymorphs and skins; they are comparable to the point that people were making; that they wanted to know who was a vampire and who wasn't. With those, again, it covers it up. My point is, the PvP argument is at best, an attempt at QQing over something as harmless as a vampiric disguise.

The difference is in your example they still look like vampires - they are just covering it up with armor. You could do the same with your race as I was pointing out. It's hard to tell if someone is a Nord or a High Elf if they completely cover their body in armor. But I don't see that as the same as being able to turn off your racial characteristics. Do you?

Is an elf putting on a helmet the same as giving them the option to hide their pointy ears by making them round like regular humans? I just don't see this comparison as the same.

Also: my comments really didn't have anything to do with PvP. It just had to do with being able to tell a vampire from a non-vampire - much the same way you should be able to tell a Nord from a High Elf. I believe vampires should look differently - and not the same as non-vampires.

All that being said: and as I emphasized in the post you responded to - there are numerous examples of vampires hiding their true form. So it's not an unreasonable or stupid request to ask for this ability. It's just not an option I personally care for. I would prefer that vampires maintain a distinctive look from non-vampires.

Luigi_Vampa · January 2017

If tatoos didn't fade for some reason, that would be nice.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

is this about hiding vampirism completely or making Vamps look like Vamps?

IMO you should NOT be able to just hide being a Vamp. If you want the benefits you have to take the penalties too.

However, if you want to actually look like a Vampire, I am all for it. The visual effect for a Vamp in ESO is terrible.

Ignoring the bolded part and talking about the rest, I wouldn't even mind if it's not 100% concealed. Just something else that doesn't affect tattoos, facepaints, scars, body markings, and the general gothic lolita look with those pastel hair colors.

As for the bolded part, appearances for me isn't a penalty/eyesore. At first I appreciated how it looked, but with the increasing costumes, motifs, armors, and some of the hairstyles looking so Final Fantasy-ish... It's getting to the point where my characters sort of look like the living porcelain dolls that are creepy as hell that you want to smash with a hammer and burn the house down as you do it.

I'd prefer the batface from Skyrim's original face textures than this.

Cpt_Teemo · January 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

I also posted a picture of Lamae bal earlier that showed she clearly had no pale bloated skin yet she is the one that turns you into the vampire, lol.

When last did you do the quest? they changed that years ago so now she appears as a stage 4 vampire.

I took a picture off of google, but I remember her looking like that before I quit 3 months after launch

And you're still here? Bro you bored?

I said I quit, but never said for how long I came back last month, about a 1 1/2 year break not bored yet

Cpt_Teemo · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I think vampires look cool. So personally, I don't care about this.

The best argument against your suggestion is that it prevents people from being able to tell who is a vampire. You point out you can hide this anyway by wearing a costume. But is that really the case? Because when I put on a costume I still look like a vampire.

So my preference is that they keep it the way it is. If it bothers other players that much, I could live with allowing players to hide the monster though. There are numerous examples of vampires hiding their true form, so it wouldn't be an unreasonable change. But when it comes to my list of priorities, this isn't even on the list.

Costumes are different than polymorphs. Disguises are different than costumes as well. So it really is the case that it totally conceals your character's vampirism. You can also be fully clad in various styles where you 100% don't show skin.

Tell me; can you deduce which character is a vampire and which isn't? Or is this not preventing deduction of vampirism?

If I had to guess, none of them are Vampires but no one can really tell since the armor just covers up the "bloated skin"

Kendaric · January 2017

Emencie wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

I don't understand this debate at all...

If you don't want to look like a vampire all you have to do is feed. That's the entire mechanic right?
When you feed you look a little pale, but otherwise normal. If you let the monster out, then you look like a monster.

Or is it just that you want more vampire skin tones at stage 1?

Part of the problem is that at any stage, it covers any and all markings applied either most of the way (generally your face paints) or completely. Which people buying these markings from the Crown Store could potentially lose out on the ability to have that being that it's that insane and hardly normal. That alone, I'd compromise for. How would dye under the skin outpale those colors. This even applies to face paints. How does vampirism pale facepaint when it's not beneath the skin?

However there's a little more involved with it. Certain things shouldn't dim with the skin tone and people know this. Others, like myself, have argued the lore standpoint (which in my opinion should be a timed and slotted skill).

Other parts of it is that people use the stage mechanics in RP to metagame, which presents a problem. Or the simple fact that if a group see you at stage 4 and running vCoA II will boot you regardless if your character is their strongest at stage 4 (which is what I always run at most of the time). Those two aren't drawbacks via game mechanic.

Edited for further clarity on who'll give you the boot with vampirism with a little added explanation.

These seem like two completely different requests.

In the first you are seeming to ask for vampirism to not overwrite tattoos or face paint at stage 1. Which I would guess is a reasonable request to most players. The Devs seem to agree with the idea that at stage 1 vampires should look more or less normal. And to maintain that the player must feed often. Makes sense.

But your second request seems to be a desire to hide your vampirism from other players to either trick them, or make them believe falsely that you are not playing a stage 4 vampire. Which is likely where you get a lot of backlash from in these topics. You cannot hide your class, your WW form, or your weapon type. Why should you be able to hide your stage 4 vampirism? Especially since Stage 4 Vampirism has always been something you couldn't hide. I'm pretty sure in every ES game.

Push for ZOS to make stage 1 more normal looking, that is the only one that makes sense.

This sums up my gripe with those wanting to completely hide their vampirism.

Sure, stage 1 could look a bit more normal, but in the later stages people shouldn't be able to hide it. What I do agree with, is that stage 4 looks particularly ugly. But there's a simple solution... stay out of stage 4 or wear a disguise or conceal it with armor.

Also, using Verandis as an example of why we should be able to conceal our vampirism feels a bit odd. Considering he is the only vampire NPC able to do it...

arcadiadark wrote: »

I wouldn't mind adding a 4 part vampiric passive that hides your vampirism by 1 level so that if you want to look stage 1 you inert 3 skillpoints or 4 to look like a human

That would be acceptable, though I disagree on the 4 point possibility. But at least it requires a ot of skill points to be spent, so I guess it would ok.