Rebornlogic wrote: »

Elitism is what is meant to be in any MMO,

That's fine for the 5% that approach the game that way, meanwhile the other 95% will carry on playing the game their way, be it casually or otherwise, and having fun while doing so.

There's nothing wrong with casual approach. And it works fine for the most part of the game (excluding veteran trials and dungeons, but theyre meant to be challenging so I dont see any problems with that).
That being said, there is a problem with "I want it NOW and I dont wanna put any effort in it" mentality. Its pretty toxic because people with this mentality usually think that when they bought the game, they also bought all other players that play it, and now they owe them all their playtime. Of course, it goes both ways - there's plenty of those among so-called pug elitists.

If you ain't first yer last.

Casual

I play this game as I see fit.

I'll take advice, I won't always follow it though.

And that is what keeps me logging on.

I'm no casual gamer. I'm a strictly formal gamer. I only game in a three piece bespoke suit.

I consider myself a casual gamer.
I work full time, 5 days a week. My evenings are full on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Then Thursday and Friday I spend a small amount on other things before I can consider gaming. Then I also have a house to look after, a husband who I'd like to spend time with and a pet to take care of and give some attention. Plus I'm working towards starting my own business. and so on.

So the moments I get to game I rather enjoy how I want to enjoy it.
Despite that I am working towards goals and achievements in the game and looking for ways to improve my toon, but I don't need to be a fully competitive full time gamer for that.

JKorr wrote: »

The "elitists" are the ones who seem to be insisting that the game be made the way they think it should be. If you aren't teh uberest 100k million dps totally untouchable juggernaut of destruction, they don't want you in their group, and probably wouldn't talk to you if they could possibly manage it.

Don't forget that they also expect you to have a minimum of 10 million gold in the bank or you haven't really been playing the game properly.

Just focusing on the OP as other comments are individuals ideas on this topic.

The QnA comments in your post read as an inaccurate assumption towards players who may get the label of casual.

I'm casual so let me detail what that reality is for me.

-I'm on the forums daily
-I log in and do quests and or dungeons 4 days a week
-I've been around on PC first since closed beta and moved to Xbox one but sometimes participate on PC PTS
-I'm a master crafter in all categories (9 trait in cloth and 8 in all others with some 9 traits in BS and Wood working based on desires)
-I do raids but none in 2017 however I did weekly raids in late 2015-2016 until two guilds folded.
-I have 6 characters who I actively play with
-I'm over the CP cap
-I run with all purple 5 set bonuses and sometimes two 5 set bonuses on my main and my 2nd favorite character
-I've completed all the main quests, guild quests and have almost every zone quest achievement in the vanilla game except for a handful in EP and 2 Cyrodil towns
-I've done 90% of all veteran dungeons
-I don't often do most Vet trials but have unsuccessfully done almost parts of all
-I haven't completed all of vMSA

Casual is the fitting term tho because I'm not a min/maxer and my characters are build based on what I want to play vs what's best in slot.

This leads to really not being an ideal group member for Vet trials but otherwise I'm a very great addition for 4 man groups

Casual might be both insult or not. Depends on the context.

There are far too many nuances to the various ways individuals play this game to apply simple labels such as casual.

I've played the game quite a number of hours the past month, though most of my time has been spent exploring and leveling.

I have worked on my build, gear, and ability usage using data and external resources to maximize my performance.

I've leveled up a bunch of crafting skills and started working on selling items to make some extra gold.

I haven't set foot in Cyrodiil, other than to pick up some skyshards, nor done any hard mode PVE trials.

I have completed a bunch of public and normal mode dungeons along with nMA, and started working on vMA.

I've asked for help and given it to others, usually in a friendly manner, though sometimes with a bit of sarcasm / trolling.

I don't get involved or comment on the RP or sappy and sometimes stomach churning text I see in local in places.

Am I casual or not?

DigitalShibby wrote: »

I think casual isn't a word used to reflect how you approach the game but the time you have to spend. Someone who works 5 days a week and only gets to play on weekends can play the game with a "hardcore" mentality where they focus on improving, end game, and min maxing their builds but with only two days a week to play they call themselves casual.

Agreed. this is how it is for me. I go days without playing. When I do, I often don't have time to get in on a raid that might take several hours of prep and progress. Sometimes yeah ok, but most of the time I can't because I am too busy and just have a few hours max to play.

Rebornlogic wrote: »

im very curious about the "casual gamer" slang going around. what entails this "casual gamer" tag.
so i though about it and here is what i came up with.

1. non competitive.
A. Well why are you even playing any video game? gaming has always been about achievements/being good/making yourself better.
2. play the game anyway you like and be accepted by anyone.
A. so if your running 2-3k dps running vAA. that means your going to make it were you cant clear the run unless the others "carry" you pushing 30+k dps
3. arguing that the game should be the way you feel it should be
A. why should it be the way you want it to be? i'm pretty sure you didn't invest into the game management. so let management decide whats best (after all THEY created the game)

this isn't meant to be insulting if you took it that way and are a "casual gamer"
Elitism is what is meant to be in any MMO, just look at achievments you get rewards for completing "hard" or "not so hard" tasks

if your playing any game there's no such thing as "casual gamer" in any mmo you play. think about anyway you set a goal that's hard to reach and play towards that goal. so by you attempting to reach that goal you now become a elitist that strives to get better.
just some reading that makes very logical sense for people that are (sober)

1. I play because its fun. When I complete a quest I achieved something, when I got the right traits on a set I achieved something, when I finished researching traits I achieved something. Not everyone has a goal to achieve to be the best, achievements are subjective, your thinking much too linear. Its also relaxing to spend an hour in the evening to play, like watching a movie.

2. I don't play multi player, I don't group, I just play the single player aspects of the game, so why does it matter to you what my DPS is? I don't even know myself, all I care about is that I can beat the content I want to. If you are planning on playing with others, then you should be aiming for a decent DPS, if not, then it does not effect anyone and people should mind their own business.

3. With that being said then, why should it be the way you want it to be? Are you invested in the company? Do you think the hardcore market is where their bread and butter is made? I think a strong argument can be made the casual players is where the money is, which is why I feel ESO is targeting the casual market, management is deciding what is the best already.

Casual gamer is a loose term, it will have a different definition depending on who you ask. I know for me, life gets busy, I didnt touch the game for 6 months and came back. My system will collect dust for long periods of time. Why, you ask? Its simple. I have a family. I have priorities. I have a life with fun recreational activities. To me gaming is not important, its just something fun to do to pass time. I could care less what I achieve in a digital world. To me that makes me casual, as I think of gaming and my "goals" for gaming quite casual.

Rebornlogic wrote: »

im very curious about the "casual gamer" slang going around. what entails this "casual gamer" tag.

Its a misused or more specifically, misunderstood term. Most don't understand its origins because they weren't playing MMORPGs when it was being used (Pre-WoW). So here's a history lesson:

First you need to understand how early Everquest worked. For its first set of expansions it had NO instancing. Dungeons were all public, raid bosses existed in an open world. Loot went to whatever individual or group that did the most damage. A level of civility kept things... sane. There was still many guilds would would try to snipe targets from one another.. but it was the late 90s going to the 2000s so the d-baggery was minimal. But suffice to say.. competition was still fierce, as first in force meant you had the first shot at getting the loot.

First in force meant having the people there, buffed, and ready to pull.

Anyway, the term raider came about as some targets required multiple groups coordinating buffs and such. A raid being a group of groups. It also meant you needed the ability to show up at a boss, with a raid force before another guild did. This level of dedication and coordination was unattainable by the average player. Terms hardcore and casual seems like it would derive from this. It didn't. Not yet.

The average players didn't care about raid targets. They did group targets which had lower respawn times. Raid bosses had 72 hour respawns, while group bosses had anywhere from 5-60 minutes (some longer). Group gear was good enough for most content anyway.

At least for the vanilla, Ruins of Kunark, Scars of Velious, and Shadow's of Luclin expansions. It was Planes of Power where everything changed. The group content in PoP assumed you had some decent gear from Velious and Luclin and a BiS pieces from RoK. It was group content that required previous raid gear. Well geared tanks, DPS, and Healers were required for much of the group content, not preferred by elitist.. but just required. A group geared tank trying to tank a Ogre in the Plane of Tactics got wrecked FAST.

Some average players went back to previous expansions to expand their gear. With raiding guilds focusing on higher content, some of the raid bosses were open to more players 2-3 expansions back. Many didn't, holding on to the fact that they still had to be First in Force which meant a level of coordination with large groups of players and that wasn't amiable to them.

They resented the fact that they were being forced out of content they paid for. Well PoP was tough, there was 'some' zones you could do in group gear (Tier 1 planes like Justice, Nightmare, Innovation, and Disease), but they couldn't do them all (Bastion of Thunder, Drunder, Sol Ro Tower, and Elemental Planes). And frequently if they joined a group, they would be measured by their parses (early form of damage meter using 3rd party program to analyze the log.txt files), and simple gear /inspect.

So they came up with the excuse for their lack of gear. They called themselves casuals. The term at this time meant something along the lines of:

"I'm casual and have a life, I don't play 16 hours a day waiting for a boss to spawn."

The term Hardcore was used to describe players who 'Had no life'. Which was used to describe geared players who were part of guilds who had the coordination necessary to down such bosses.

This wasn't an issue until PoP. In Earlier expansions a group geared player alongside a raid geared player happened quite often. But there was no issue between players because content could still get done if everyone stuck to their role. But in PoP. Even having a tank, a healer, off-healer, slower, buffer, and DPS (EQ supported 6 man groups and had more than just healers, tanks, and DPS, but also hybrids and support). Stuff would wreck your group even if everyone did what they were supposed to if gear was an issue.

So the playerbase now having to be picky about who is in their groups meant some players were left out. And they resented that. Jealousy of better geared players got the best of people.

So.. fast forward a few years into the WoW era. The term filthy casual came about. This was an irreverence that spawned from the counter culture of players who were considered 'hardcore'. These players took the term Hardcore and ran with it. And then not understanding why these players were being casual used their own term against them.

Now here's the ironic thing about this dynamic. Self proclaimed casual players were still avoiding raiding. In WoW there was NO competition due to instancing. There was also never a need for raid gear in group dungeons in any expansion of WoW or future MMOs (Even EQ2). It gets even better.

Some of these 'casual' players still stuck (and even to this day almost 15 years later) to the idea that raiding equates to 'hardcore' even though raiding in many games entails LESS playtime than grouping and questing. Think about it. You do a raid dungeon that takes 3 hours in an evening with 9-29 other players. You might do this 2 times a week. That's 6 hours of play a week. Now I don't know about you all.. but even playing an hour a day 'casually' equates to at LEAST 7 hours in a week. Of course on weekends you might splurge a bit.

Of course the average player is more likely to play 2-3 hours a day. Quite a bit more than the 'hardcore'.

To put it shortly. The Term Casual and Hardcore was spawned out of a resentment caused by jealousy, envy, and necessity of the times. When someone uses the term Casual to describe themselves, they aren't describing themselves, the proof is the fact that the term is poorly (and always has been) defined. The term casual means that they are making an excuse that their gear is worse because unlike whomever they are comparing themselves, they have a social life outside the game. Implying others who are better equipped, don't.

I have a pretty good intimate knowledge of the subject because I was one of the players who didn't raid in PoP. I was able to get some raiding in on Shadows of Luclin back in 2003. But to put it shortly, I wasn't in one of the bigger guilds back then and didn't have access to all of the coordination they did.

However, I understood unless I left the guilds I was in and joined a larger coordinated one. I would not see such locales. I was ok with that. However some of my peers would constantly complain and deride players who were better than them. I saw this going into WoW as well. I remember seeing a player in one of the guilds I was in actually join a open raid group. When they got a certain piece of gear, the guild leader booted them from the guild out of jealousy, citing that person was too 'hardcore' for the guild. Long story short, the guild broke up soon after. Yeah that actually happened. And that wasn't that uncommon back then for other groups.

Casual and Hardcore aren't terms that should continue to be used. They are bigoted, derogatory, and don't accurately describe the actual playstyles they are sometimes intended to.

Whenever you see someone calling themselves causal, they are simply making an excuse to avoid being measured against someone with better gear, better knowledge of the game, or better coordination. They are further implying you need to be some sort of social outcast or pariah to have such attributes. Citing excuses such as having a job, kids, spouse, dog, or whatever. Yeah.. that doesn't mean anything, people who raid (or in ESO, do trials) have all those responsibilities too. Like I said, excuses.

So the thing to take away from this is don't take anyone seriously who identifies as a casual or hardcore (self proclaimed hardcores are rare, but they exist and they are just as misleading, many of which are likely carried by a group). The terms are loosely defined due to their sketchy origin.

First of all game never been made for competition on the first place they were made as a form of entertaiment and to make money as far as i know( is wasnt called nintendo entertament system for nothing)

And no i dont play for competion i mostly play solo since cosole release, heck i did my first normal dongeon in the witch festival and my first vet dongeon yesterday cause a real life friend needed help and i never entered a trial or maelstrom arena and i dont plan to do so

I 'll probably quit when tes 6 will be around

Rebornlogic wrote: »

im very curious about the "casual gamer" slang going around. what entails this "casual gamer" tag.
so i though about it and here is what i came up with.

1. non competitive.
A. Well why are you even playing any video game? gaming has always been about achievements/being good/making yourself better.

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha....*deep breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaahahahahahah....

.....you're serious?