Remove all proc sets from PVP

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2017

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

bowmanz607 · January 2017

Not all proc sets are an issue. Only a few. In fact, this blanket nerf will render many procs sets that were already niche play useless. Proc sets were in this game well before shadow of hist dropped velidreth and one Tamriel dropped more. They have been in game since launch.

This change will just make bad/decent ones horrible while making the ones that were over performing still work well. But yet again we get a blanket nerf rather then looking at each of the individual sets. I mean heck, with all the shields out there anyway, they were not crit ting against many targets anyway.

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

All proc sets are bad for the game, not some. They would all be removed if it were up to me. The selfish behavior I see are the forums are essentially "nerf all of the stamina sets, but leave my magicka proc sets alone!".

Armor should not kill people. While we're on the topic of armor, heavy armor is overdue for a nerf.

Derra · January 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

All proc sets are bad for the game, not some. They would all be removed if it were up to me. The selfish behavior I see are the forums are essentially "nerf all of the stamina sets, but leave my magicka proc sets alone!".

Armor should not kill people. While we're on the topic of armor, heavy armor is overdue for a nerf.

This.

Armor should not kill people. But i don´t want cyrodiil with bloodspawn, pirate skeleton, trollking on every player aswell.

Sandman929 · January 2017

I think people are still trying to muddy the waters by including sets that proc anything in discussions about proc sets. Nobody is calling for the removal of Trial By Fire because it procs elemental resistance. Proc sets in dispute are sets that proc their own damage for the wearer.

Armor doing damage is a terrible idea and has no place in competitive PvP.

Armitas · January 2017

Even ones that don't do real damage like Malubeth are still broken and giving crazy broken heals. I tried it for 5minutes last week on live and I forget the value exactly but it was something crazy like 6k scourges. I wish they were just removed and only provided the 1 piece buff.

Arthg · January 2017

I agree.

Remove them.

RNG kills skill.

Sandman929 · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

All proc sets are bad for the game, not some. They would all be removed if it were up to me. The selfish behavior I see are the forums are essentially "nerf all of the stamina sets, but leave my magicka proc sets alone!".

Armor should not kill people. While we're on the topic of armor, heavy armor is overdue for a nerf.

This.

Armor should not kill people. But i don´t want cyrodiil with bloodspawn, pirate skeleton, trollking on every player aswell.

They could just make more sets that proc damage potential. Weapon/Spell power buffs for short windows. Kena is a good proc set (but clumsy). Clever Alchemist as well. Even Viscous Death requires a kill to proc damage, but I wouldn't call it a good proc set.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

The armors and monster sets referred to are mainly post Thieves guild . Vipers , Veladreth , Salene , Tremorscale , Grothdar the one that summons a spirit animal and a few others . Those sets are what I refer to as Proc sets even though there are others based on a % to proc damage .

Those are the buggiest sets with the most griefs . They should either rework them or remove them from PVP if they can't devout the time to fixing them . Removing crit does nothing to fix their problems in PVP .

Rilmarshim · January 2017

Remove pvp from the game.

aslan06 · January 2017

They should make it more classic elder scrolls game and just remove all sets lol,or atleast only from pvp.

Dev · January 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

I have a better idea: Why not remove all PVP from ESO?

If they got rid of the cancer known as pvp all together, they would:

have the resources to design new content
would not have to spend millions per year on balancing what can never be balanced
would no longer have all these crying threads about how 'X' ability is too op, or the 'i cant fight 1v10, nerf the 10' type crap posts

Every dollar spent on pvp is another dollar wasted.

Oh, and spare me the deluded concept of how ESO is supposed to be a pvp game, that is just the type of lies that people tell each other to make them feel better.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Dev wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

I have a better idea: Why not remove all PVP from ESO?

If they got rid of the cancer known as pvp all together, they would:
have the resources to design new content

would not have to spend millions per year on balancing what can never be balanced

would no longer have all these crying threads about how 'X' ability is too op, or the 'i cant fight 1v10, nerf the 10' type crap posts

Every dollar spent on pvp is another dollar wasted.

Oh, and spare me the deluded concept of how ESO is supposed to be a pvp game, that is just the type of lies that people tell each other to make them feel better.

Except that pvp can be balanced, and ZOS balances pve as poorly as they balance pvp. Also pvp is the intended end game content in eso. How many times are you going to do the same trial or emote in the same tavern before you get bored? The only reason they amhave emphasized trials and rp for the last year is because pvp lagged too much to make it profitable. ZOS did good damage control and saved the business, and they'll gradually move back to pvp as the lag decreases.

Pvp is a different kind of end game content, and it's ok if you don't understand it.

Pve is linear and quantitative. It's all number crunching and repetition. In pvp, no two situations are the same. It requires actual mechanical skill, more extensive muscle memories and practice, thinking on your feet, adapting to changing circumstances, etc. It's also more social, as raids can be larger and larger guilds can mix up and play with each other more easily.

By the way, your argument can be turned on you by saying "pvp was the original end game content. If ZOS would just delete trials and focus on pvp, there'd be no lag, no op sets, and fewer exploits." Neither your statement nor this one holds water because they exclude the other halves of the game.

psychotic13 · January 2017

Most proc sets are not an issue.

Just delete viper from the game, and fix Selene double proc'ing

Oakmontowls_ESO · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

I have a better idea: Why not remove all PVP from ESO?

If they got rid of the cancer known as pvp all together, they would:
have the resources to design new content

would not have to spend millions per year on balancing what can never be balanced

would no longer have all these crying threads about how 'X' ability is too op, or the 'i cant fight 1v10, nerf the 10' type crap posts

Every dollar spent on pvp is another dollar wasted.

Oh, and spare me the deluded concept of how ESO is supposed to be a pvp game, that is just the type of lies that people tell each other to make them feel better.

Except that pvp can be balanced, and ZOS balances pve as poorly as they balance pvp. Also pvp is the intended end game content in eso. How many times are you going to do the same trial or emote in the same tavern before you get bored? The only reason they amhave emphasized trials and rp for the last year is because pvp lagged too much to make it profitable. ZOS did good damage control and saved the business, and they'll gradually move back to pvp as the lag decreases.

Pvp is a different kind of end game content, and it's ok if you don't understand it.

Pve is linear and quantitative. It's all number crunching and repetition. In pvp, no two situations are the same. It requires actual mechanical skill, more extensive muscle memories and practice, thinking on your feet, adapting to changing circumstances, etc. It's also more social, as raids can be larger and larger guilds can mix up and play with each other more easily.

By the way, your argument can be turned on you by saying "pvp was the original end game content. If ZOS would just delete trials and focus on pvp, there'd be no lag, no op sets, and fewer exploits." Neither your statement nor this one holds water because they exclude the other halves of the game.

Not that I am for the removal of pvp, but there is something about pvp that causes lag. Also the argument could be made that the removal of end game trials would reduce lag because of all the people who would quit because of the lack of content for them. There is a definite argument to be made about the difficulty in balancing both pve and pvp content at the same time. These blanket changes such as the no crit proc sets should have been a change to battle spirit in order to not effect pve.

Silver_Strider · January 2017

Remove the 2-4 piece bonuses from proc sets (1 piece bonus in the case on monster helms) Make all proc sets require 7 pieces be equip for their current damage.

On a serious note, I would have preferred an actual fix to problematic proc sets over a blanket nerf to all proc sets that hurts bad proc sets much more than the good ones. The problem wasn't their crit damage but the fact they could all proc at similar, if not the exact same, time creating a huge spike of damage that could easily kill just about anyone not decked to the nines in heavy armor. It took no skill to do, just attack and watch your armor kill people.

Ishammael · January 2017

The writing is on the walls, guys.

The only thing important to ZoS at this point is selling crown store stuff. Balance -- whether PvE or PvP -- is clearly not important. Evidence is last few patches.

KramUzibra · January 2017

Sounds good

willlienellson · January 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

All proc sets are bad for the game, not some. They would all be removed if it were up to me. The selfish behavior I see are the forums are essentially "nerf all of the stamina sets, but leave my magicka proc sets alone!".

Selfish behavior huh? Before you go being all judgmental, try some intellectual honesty.

Most people are complaining about Velidreth and Viper (maybe Tremorscale and Grothdar). Most people when giving examples of sets that don't need nerfs use Bahraha's Curse (stam set).

But "all stamina sets"? come on man.

Kra'gh
Selene
Vicecannon
Sellistrix
Red Mountain
Ashen Grip
Widowmaker
Bahraha's Curse
Eternal Hunt
Stormfist
ETC.

Hardly anyone is calling for a nerf to any of those sets.

What people are asking for is for Zos to take the time and effort to look at individual item sets and adjust them accordingly for better balance....like most game developers do...instead of blanket nerfs that always create more problems than they solve.

I say this as someone who uses BOTH viper and velidreth.......they should have gone in and nerfed 4 or 5 specific OP sets by reducing their damage by X%.

FriedEggSandwich · January 2017

Dev wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

I have a better idea: Why not remove all PVP from ESO?

If they got rid of the cancer known as pvp all together, they would:
have the resources to design new content

would not have to spend millions per year on balancing what can never be balanced

would no longer have all these crying threads about how 'X' ability is too op, or the 'i cant fight 1v10, nerf the 10' type crap posts

Every dollar spent on pvp is another dollar wasted.

Oh, and spare me the deluded concept of how ESO is supposed to be a pvp game, that is just the type of lies that people tell each other to make them feel better.

Wow what a huge overreaction. Zos seem incapable of making battle spirit more robust and all encompassing so your reaction is to request the removal of content? You should relax a bit or you're not going to get to sleep tonight.

willlienellson · January 2017

If it were my job to balance this game, I would have done the following:

Reduced Viper damage by 25%
Reduced Velidreth damage by 15%
Reduced Grothdar damage by 15%
Reduced Tremorscale damage by 10% and reduced the snare duration to 3 seconds.
Reduced Eternal Hunt damage by 10%
Reduced Valkyn Skoria damage by 10%

Increased the damage Bahraha's Curse by 50% and increase the size from 5 meters to 7 meters.
Increased the damage of Ashen Grip by 100%
ETC.

Not an exhaustive list, but you get the idea.

olsborg · January 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

/signed

olsborg · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

If it were my job to balance this game, I would have done the following:

Reduced Viper damage by 25%
Reduced Velidreth damage by 15%
Reduced Grothdar damage by 15%
Reduced Tremorscale damage by 10% and reduced the snare duration to 3 seconds.
Reduced Eternal Hunt damage by 10%
Reduced Valkyn Skoria damage by 10%

Increased the damage Bahraha's Curse by 50% and increase the size from 5 meters to 7 meters.
Increased the damage of Ashen Grip by 100%
ETC.

Not an exhaustive list, but you get the idea.

Not a bad suggestion, cept I dont get why Eternal Hunt is on the list, its perfectly fine imo, you can see the rune clear as day, if you choose to walk on it, take the dmg. Selene would need a 20% reduction in dmg, and imo, all the "procc" sets that is a dot, like vicecanon, sheer venom should still be able to crit.

ThePonzzz · January 2017

As pointed out in countless threads, the issue boils down to damage procs stacking with each other. The response by ZOS is they will remove critical damage from this, but many feel this is not enough. As many more have suggested, proc damage should not all proc at once. Things like Selene's bear, Widowmaker's poison and Viper's poison hitting you at once can mean game over to many people. You can defend against it to a point, but it adds a LOT of raw damage to someone's burst.

willlienellson · January 2017

ThePonzzz wrote: »

As pointed out in countless threads, the issue boils down to damage procs stacking with each other. The response by ZOS is they will remove critical damage from this, but many feel this is not enough. As many more have suggested, proc damage should not all proc at once. Things like Selene's bear, Widowmaker's poison and Viper's poison hitting you at once can mean game over to many people. You can defend against it to a point, but it adds a LOT of raw damage to someone's burst.

But someone got very lucky if that happens. It's not something you can replicate with regularity. Kind of like a Ult Meteor Proc'ing a Valkyn Skoria Meteor. Yeah...it happens, but let's not balance the game around it.

Selenes is a % chance to proc
Widowmaker is a % chance to proc

Viper is a guaranteed proc, and even though the conversations become broad, going as far as stuff like global cooldowns (which I hate)....the issue is almost certainly viper.

99% of the time when people are complaining they are complaining about Viper......or ________+ Viper.

Perhaps the easiest solution is just to take the Viper set and convert it to % chance to proc and do ONLY THAT and see it goes from there.

The chances of 3 proc sets going off together if they are all % chance on damage is extremely low.

Spearblade · January 2017

Viper is the single biggest issue because it is a guaranteed proc every 4 seconds, and you can time it as such, as said above.

However, I think that each character should have a mechanic where only one proc is possible.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Dev wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's absurd. Just make them not work on players, end of discussion.

I have a better idea: Why not remove all PVP from ESO?

If they got rid of the cancer known as pvp all together, they would:
have the resources to design new content

would not have to spend millions per year on balancing what can never be balanced

would no longer have all these crying threads about how 'X' ability is too op, or the 'i cant fight 1v10, nerf the 10' type crap posts

Every dollar spent on pvp is another dollar wasted.

Oh, and spare me the deluded concept of how ESO is supposed to be a pvp game, that is just the type of lies that people tell each other to make them feel better.

Here's a better idea. Stop using the word cancer, Gretchen.

Edit: Also, we get that you don't like PvP. You don't have to keep voicing it over and over when you know it's not going anywhere. The horse is dead.

willlienellson · January 2017

Spearblade wrote: »

However, I think that each character should have a mechanic where only one proc is possible.

I'll just post the same thing I do to all the global cooldown threads.

God forbid someone has some slow @ss dot like Vicecannon proc at the same time as something like Bahraha's Curse. God forbid.

Your entire argument hinges on a few specific proc sets combining to cause you grief. Adjust those few specifically and it's a non issue.

Why should some guy wearing a weird combo that's already obscure like Ashen Grip and Malubeth's Scourge, Thunderbug and Sellistrex , etc have their build wrecked and ruined with a global cooldown because of all the QQ'ing over Velidreth and Viper.
Have you ever heard the term "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"?

Armitas · January 2017

Make the 2 piece bonus of all monster sets repeat the 1 piece bonus instead when you enter cyrodiil.

MyKillv2.0 · January 2017

I love how stacking viper with another proc set and timing your attacks against a single player is considered "cheese" in this current meta....

But popping a Destro Ultimate and watching 10s of players just melt is considered "skilled gameplay". #esomagicentitlement

psychotic13 · January 2017

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

I love how stacking viper with another proc set and timing your attacks against a single player is considered "cheese" in this current meta....

But popping a Destro Ultimate and watching 10s of players just melt is considered "skilled gameplay". #esomagicentitlement

No, there both used by dribblers