@dodgehopper_ESOdodgehopper_ESO wrote: »@Armitas, what you say regarding Reflective Scale is precisely why I recommended long ago that they simply make the Reflect chance something like 20% over a 30 second period. It would have been strong without being overwhelming. It would have been defensive without being a guarantee lockout of attacks from ranged fighters, which then force people to close in and get permalocked into talons. That was the big flaw. A lot of people gave me flack for my suggestion, but I was just looking toward the future of what they were going to do to the class and the game, and predictably they did exactly that in the form of Staves and other changes.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
@IxskullzxI
I don't know what you're talking about, I've fought around 10 duels with one literally lasting over 30 minutes because I couldn't kill said player.
The buffs to whip and volatile armor are nice and the change to ferocious leap is welcomed but again it is not enough to simply say "Oh the Mag DK can finally be on par with others open world".
Sustain is still just as terrible, I guess ZOS thought that since we have terrible mag sustain maybe just put coag blood to scale off of missing magicka in order to make it a ok heal because nothing is wrong with that *sarcasm*.
My Stam DK still received nothing this patch nor did we even get our flames of oblivion back which should have never been given to sorcerers in the first place especially at no negative cost for using it like what we had to deal with (no magicka regen + magicka depletes over time).
We still haven't like I said before received and sustain improvements whether it be a reduction of our class skills across the board or skills applying minor magic steal like other classes now do even if you're not attacking an enemy lmao.
DoTs still are useless in PvP, I fought people who used them and all hey did was heal through it, shield through it, and purge it (which everyone can do with either purify or purge from the alliance skill tree).
Gap closer still sucks and the dragon leap ultimate is still bugged as if I try to use it on a enemy sometimes I'll just have my wings spawn and my ultimate drained. IMO they can make dragon leap into a ground targeted ability like heal springs then that would be a lot more useful as long as I can high-light an enemy and leap where the enemy is.
I mean I can pretty much go on for another paragraph but no these changes aren't the best and will not make Mag DK play any better especially with the lack of any sustain changes and still the removal of Flames of Oblivion which is now a mage reskin.
Joy_Division wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I really still don't get why standard is getting nerfed. For AOE damge there are several ultimates that are better already. Standard is the ultimate one would use in single target burn phases of PVE bosses as a substitute to the lack of a class based execute. Reducing the only valuable aspect of standard by 25% really demands that it be balanced in some other way, at least a 25% reduction in cost to give it more up-time. I would be very happy if you gave it 10% bonus damage and reduced its cost below 100 so one could keep it up half the time in a fight. Another good trade off would be a class based execute. Who wouldn't like a lava whip that did more damage to low health targets?
I'm almost positive they nerfed it because:
- whip +5% increase
- Flame Staff + 8% increase
- AoE cap + variable % increase
In their minds since DPS is going up in other areas, this was done as a counter-balance.
Don't shoot the messenger here, but as I said I can almost guarantee this is why. Way back during the Orsinium patch I asked why puncturing sweeps was getting hit with a stealth 5% nerf to healing, and I actually got a developer response who outlined the sort of ZoS reasoning I outline above.
Edit: Mr Gorv's point about tanks and Green Dragon Blood is highly relevant I think. I see a a lot of PvP reasoning here and I'm wondering if the awkward mechanics undermine its use for DKs who rely on it outside Cyrodiil. I do agree with him that the lesser used morph with the (sometimes) redudant stam regen may have been the better one to experiment with.
Joy_Division wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I really still don't get why standard is getting nerfed. For AOE damge there are several ultimates that are better already. Standard is the ultimate one would use in single target burn phases of PVE bosses as a substitute to the lack of a class based execute. Reducing the only valuable aspect of standard by 25% really demands that it be balanced in some other way, at least a 25% reduction in cost to give it more up-time. I would be very happy if you gave it 10% bonus damage and reduced its cost below 100 so one could keep it up half the time in a fight. Another good trade off would be a class based execute. Who wouldn't like a lava whip that did more damage to low health targets?
I'm almost positive they nerfed it because:
- whip +5% increase
- Flame Staff + 8% increase
- AoE cap + variable % increase
In their minds since DPS is going up in other areas, this was done as a counter-balance.
Don't shoot the messenger here, but as I said I can almost guarantee this is why. Way back during the Orsinium patch I asked why puncturing sweeps was getting hit with a stealth 5% nerf to healing, and I actually got a developer response who outlined the sort of ZoS reasoning I outline above.
Edit: Mr Gorv's point about tanks and Green Dragon Blood is highly relevant I think. I see a a lot of PvP reasoning here and I'm wondering if the awkward mechanics undermine its use for DKs who rely on it outside Cyrodiil. I do agree with him that the lesser used morph with the (sometimes) redudant stam regen may have been the better one to experiment with.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
@IxskullzxI
Well when fighting other classes duels helps you size each other up to put it in a different term but pretty much it helps to see the down sides of fighting said class or variant of said class e.g. Magplar or stamplar.
Yeah DKs improvements are nice (two lmao) but the rest is still garbage. DB needs to be changed, if it scaled off of max health with starting percetages around 40% while being allowed to crit, then it would still prevail through battle spirit. I should not have to literally be at 20% of my remaining magicka to get a heal that is currently bugged thanks to it ignoring battle spirit.
I'm just saying that there's a lot more fixes that need to go in place for both My Mag DK and my Stam DK that I have yet to see especially in regards to sustain as other classes seemed some sustain tweaks this time around but yet again we've argued that our sustain sucks and we still don't get any changes.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
@IxskullzxI
How do we know it isn't? Even if it wasn't a bug the fact that I need to deplete nearly all my magicka for a decent heal is ludicrous. So when I'm at near max magicka in a fight, if so happens my health drops instead of using healing ward I should just spam my 2.8k costing skill (in 5 light) until It heals me to full only for me to now be out of magicka which takes me a while to regain especially with my costly skills.
From my testing it's ignoring Coag blood is ignoring battle spirit, just thought I'd throw it out there*
Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »As a magic based DK tank with 44k health and 18k magic you people just gutted my best self heal that I relied on Coagulating Dragons Blood. I guess I'll have to rely on healers now to keep me alive when I'm taking a pounding instead of trying to take pressure off them by self healing as much as I could. I was already frequently running out of magic, now I'll probably not even have enough magic for the meager heal I'm allowed. Please sir...may I have some more?
Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »As a magic based DK tank with 44k health and 18k magic you people just gutted my best self heal that I relied on Coagulating Dragons Blood. I guess I'll have to rely on healers now to keep me alive when I'm taking a pounding instead of trying to take pressure off them by self healing as much as I could. I was already frequently running out of magic, now I'll probably not even have enough magic for the meager heal I'm allowed. Please sir...may I have some more?
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
Joy_Division wrote: »To the people who think Green Dragon Blood is ignoring Battle Spirit ... where are you doing your duels? Rawlka? Without a doubt, Green Dragon Blood is being affected by Battle Spirit if you are in Cyrodiil. I am not familiar with how ESO's mechanics for duels work and if there may be a potential bug there. But these screenshots prove without question that if you are in Cyrodiil, your GDB is effected by Battle Spirit.
My stats: No healing modifiers (that I am aware of. I had 3 earthen heart abilities on bar, rapid maneuvers and Coagulating Blood. All heals were done at roughly when I had 45% magicka
Screenshots Vs. Mammoths in Orsinium:
Note: The second heal in that screenshot was modified by the minor vitality side buff. I forgot about that.
Screenshots Vs. bandits in Hap, Cyrodiil:
Interestingly Enough, burning embers remains a DK's best heal. Check this out, not even a crit and, yes, it's affected by Battle Spirit:
So if you have 38K magicka and are about half that amount, in Cyrodiil you'll get a 5.5K or so self heal or a potential crit for almost 8K. I do not think those are unreasonable numbers for a guaranteed self heal with no modifiers in typical combat conditions (resource at half is fairly common). Although people are cynical on these forums about the combat team, I do think they test this stuff and this is likely what they had in mind so I do not think Coagulating Blood is getting changed.
As far as the questionable reliability of having it scale off max magicka (e.g. you get ganked), this is very consistent with ESO's combat team's philosophy of having risk/reward kind of quirky mechanics to try and spice up ESO's combat such that each encounter varies from another. Which, I don't necessarily think is a bad guiding principle for some things. Yes the heal sucks if you get ganked, but the heal is very strong in a common DK scenario, low on resources: hit this heal, then hit your ultimate, you will be at full health even if using a small ultimate. Now, don't get me wrong, I value consistency over risk/reward, but that's me and maybe you. So this heal isn't for me. But it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be and, without question, potentially good in fairly common combat situations.
Maybe this isn't the buff you were looking for, but it is a buff and one that is not unreasonable. If this sort of Russian Roulette heal does not appeal to you, I have bumped into several DKs who have been back baring a resto staff using Dampen + Healing Ward, so there are other options. If you really really want to convince ZoS to reform Dragon's Blood, then it is the other morph I would aim your arguments at. I can almost guarantee they are excited about Coagulating Blood and I don't think there is nearly enough evidence we have presented to call their excitement into question; the main worry is getting ganked and I'm not sure that's an issue: part of risk/reward is too make sure there is an actual risk.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
After Testing out Dragon's blood here's what I feel needs to happen.
If you want to keep this skill as a percentage then make it scale off of your max health while allowing it to crit. The fact that I have to be around 40% (that's when I was getting around 5.6k heals at 30k max magicka on a testing character) is pretty annoying. It makes me feel that I am to sacrifice around 2.8k magicka at 12k magicka to get a heal that if major defiled would be completely horrible and a waste of magic.
It would simply be better for me to stick to the current way of healing ward + burning ember spam.
Ferocious leap is perfect but please do remember that the gap closers for both version of this ultimate is clearly broken as it will waste it even on PTS when rooted or if the target runs out of range you'll see the wings go off while the ultimate gone. It's also still being dodged if the player runs away from the ultimate (doesn't say the ability was dodged or missed but it just doesn't do damage).
Flame Lash is definitely strong and does considerable amount of damage (this was tested against a max CP player who used 5 heavy 1 med 1 light, not sure if it matters but he was a high elf templar using sword n shield for reverb). I'm on a 300 CP character still putting in the damage which was great to see even though it still hits pretty good prior to this incoming buff (IMO when using sets like burning spell + scathing).
Standard of Might did some damage increases that was noticeable but the damage received I didn't really notice a difference as it was a PvE mainly thing I used but in PvP still wouldn't use or recommend using it unless you're tanking for a group.
All other things I feel still need to be addressed.
Flames of Oblivion (more preference) needs to go back to an AoE, it does good damage now but 5 seconds for it to hit is annoying + I use to have it on my mag dk to find enemies who were hiding. I would like for it to go back as an AoE but if not an applied DoT would be nice too.
Cauterize - Please get rid of this ability and make it a different one maybe a life stealing ground AoE that damages an enemy while stealing their health when they're being damaged or maybe even giving back resources if they stand in the AoE. It could be a pool of lava similar to the destro staffs elemental blockade.
Unrelenting grip - Please make this a stamina taunt that applies minor breech/minor fracture.
Noxious breath - Please get rid of the delay it does also fix the issue where it doesn't apply a debuff on an enemy that isn't buffed and if somehow make it easier to aim with because it misses an enemy when I use it right in front of their face.
Talons and other soft CCs - Please apply immunity when using talons or encase or bombard (you get the picture) have you ever been soft cc'd in place so badly that you cannot move? I mean it's literally ridiculous that this still happens, it shouldn't be a thing whatsoever.
Ash cloud and morphs - increase it's diameter by 2 meters. While Cinderstorm could get back it's major evasion??
Battle Roar: Does it affect your health you receive while in PvP because I'm almost certain that it does + the changes said it will now display the values you will receive when using an ultimate. Has these values always been current ( 21 for health/stam and 54 or something close for magicka upon ultimate usage)? If not please return the original values.
Helping Hands - Please give 10% back in stamina when using an earthen heart ability, the class that's built around sustain currently lacks the best sustain just saying..
I do have a lot of unrelated DK abilities that I want to see changed but I will not list them here. The soft CCs was an exception as talons is considered to be one.
sorry i dont call those buffs i dont feel the differnt at all ,
nerfing banner buffing whip why destro staff ultim hit more then it for 5k to 7k tick
1-ferocious leap well great change that u made it to flame damage but its should hit more cuz its dodgable n blockable plus the shield r so useless please remove it and make it dot like dawnbreaker.
2-chain:just remove this skills give us new skills like one hand skill gap closer please with stun cuz its sucks
3-standrad: make banner like b4 cuz its just not good its not killing anyone just for show ,make the.damage same as destro ultim .
4-dragon.blood: make it scale of mam magicka and spell damage remove the % or just make it 33% not effected by battle spirit its simple just like that u just made it more more usless then what it is at live lol
5-reflect scales is so usless now i dnt think anyone gonna use it nothing to reflect and its buggy why should.we use it xd
anyways nice try but dont call this buff cuz its nothing
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@worbel
Can we please get back on the leap train? This is out last chance to get 1 single kill mechanic for pvp. If we dont get F-leap to be on par with dawnbreaker we will have gotten nowhere and were back to only tanking. Prioritize guys...
Dragon blood is weak but we can still heal with embers and flame lash. we're not dropping like flies in pvp. We are however killing no one with an ultimate thats hits for 4-6k. Dragon leap is our only chance at getting burst damage. WE NEED THIS ULTIMATE.
IxskullzxI wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »"I'm mad I didnt get a breath of life i win clone." - Everyone in this thread.@IxskullzxI can you explain why you changed your opinion? You believe that cDB will serve you well in 2.7?IxskullzxI wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »Use flame lash, deep breath, or healing ward if you're magic. Use Vigor and/or Rally if you're stamina.
Wow I didn't even think of that. Thanks!
You're more than welcome. If there's any other class abilities you have an issue with, let me know and I'll help, before begging zos to change the game for you.
Dragons blood needs to be fixed. Flame lash isn't going to save you when you're out numbered. Deep breath doesn't heal unless you have 6 people on you, and the dk doesn't have the mobility to make use of healing ward like other classes. Explain how it's balanced a templar can spam 10k+ BoL but I get 3k Dragon blood heals at 20% with 30k hp.
I do. Im not sure why you quoted that, as it was posted well before the patch notes came out. Current db is trash. I will definitely be slotting cDB next patch. I now dont have to split between stacking health and magicka. I can go full magicka and get good heals. The majority of the time im sub 50% magicka on dk. This change is awesome. If you like more health, use gDB. A lot of dk's dont even use pots with major fortitude anymore anyways.. Now I see some people are saying it's ignoring battle spirit.. If that's true, and it's not intended, then I will agree that the new db is trash.
leepalmer95 wrote: »Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »As a magic based DK tank with 44k health and 18k magic you people just gutted my best self heal that I relied on Coagulating Dragons Blood. I guess I'll have to rely on healers now to keep me alive when I'm taking a pounding instead of trying to take pressure off them by self healing as much as I could. I was already frequently running out of magic, now I'll probably not even have enough magic for the meager heal I'm allowed. Please sir...may I have some more?
Use green dragons blood, that still scales of hp.
Can we please get back on the leap train? This is out last chance to get 1 single kill mechanic for pvp. If we dont get F-leap to be on par with dawnbreaker we will have gotten nowhere and were back to only tanking. Prioritize guys...
Dragon blood is weak but we can still heal with embers and flame lash. we're not dropping like flies in pvp. We are however killing no one with an ultimate thats hits for 4-6k. Dragon leap is our only chance at getting burst damage. WE NEED THIS ULTIMATE.