PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

VampiricByNature · January 2017

Poor NB. This is a trial setup for maw i typically get invited to- 2 dk tank, 2 temp healers, 2 magdk, 1magplar, 1 stamsorc [the currently accepted Stam] , 3 magsorcs, and 1 magnb (for passives)
No room for my Stam nb ever. Most good players don't bring magnb until specifically asked.

STEVIL · January 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

I only slot strife. I refuse to use sorcbeam on a magblade. I have a sorc if I wanna see that tired animation.

But @STEVIL what is this boost they are getting?

One of the staff type passives is changing.

instead of faster heavies iirc they get either a 8% damage bonus to all damage of single target type or an 85 boost to Aoe damage type if they have the other staff lightning i believe.
So with staves on different bars can have your singles upped or you aoe upped depending on whichever is good to go.

So, staff bar with strife at instant of firing = 8% gain.

my hunch gut instinct tells me this 8% for a well designed build is really more akin to the 5% one would gain from DW in practice since you wont ever get 8% to everything but can script to get 8% of most.

Me, i have no character iirc who relies on just class skills but the division between what class skills v weapon skills are used for and the mix between them varies a lot.

But for balance purposes, it all intertwines. Someone may elect to forego the staff cuz they dont like the look but balance will be developed and considered based on hopefully non-cosmetic considerations.

STEVIL · January 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

We are talking comparison. Every skill got the 8% destro buff not only nb skills. Nothing changes, Strife is still worse than all the other used spammables in pve and on top of that it also lost the only thing it got going for itself which is the extremely cheap cost.
The hot is barely noticable in pvp and totally worthless in pve except in vma where you will feel the cost increase the most. And to 100% everything besides trials, vma, pvp and maybe the dlc vetdungeons should not affect balance at all.
We are considering the bigger picture and its not only about strife its about much more than that. NB is basically nonexistant in pve trial groups and in pvp only good for bombing. Thats it.

Please dont talk about balance and then refer to solo content. Like wtf.

yeah like WTF? The vast majority of content is solo. A high percentage of the group content is soloable.

limiting the discussion to group play and pvp is about as non-big picture as you can get.

However, again, let me pose a question...

What if the cost increase goes up AND funnel health morphis swapped out for one where you lose the HOT entirely, keep the same damage and keep the cheap cost? You claim how useless the heal is and how big the cost is so, let you get the best... lose the useless keep the good and gain the 8% too.

Good to go?

STEVIL · January 2017

OdinForge wrote: »

My thoughts on Magicka NB for PTS and current One Tamriel Live. I played my Magicka NB a lot between 1.6 and One Tamriel, and I played him longest last night on PTS doing duels.

First impression
The change to the cost of strife is insignificant in application, and for such a high damaging ability it probably shouldn't be as cheap as it is. Builds relying on the super low cost of it will definitely be hurting. On PTS in duels I could no longer sustain my magicka in heavy seducer fighting the worst of the worst heavy stam proc builds, especially if fasalla was used. Builds I'd have no issue fighting against on the live server with my current setup, the biggest cost is shields and I could always rest easy knowing that my damage spam was cheap to not hurt my sustain.

I scrapped my heavy seducer and threw on some light armor, switched some of my CP around. I changed my mundus around, switched food buff to include regen, changed to dampen magicka for a bigger shield. Aside from a change in shield morph, I changed one other skill to help compensate for lower resistances in crazy fights. But my skill bar looks almost identical to what it is on live.

The end result is that I gained a lot more damage, increased my base regen (cost reduction is comparable) thus increasing my sustain. My shield-based defense increased while my resistance naturally lowered in LA, but casting less shield is nice on my resources. The cost increase to strife became irrelevant for many reasons, and I'm enjoying the extra damage I can do.

Magicka NB is mostly fine
Magicka NB is still perfectly fine for the most part in PvP when it comes to 1v1 situations. I'm sure open world performance will vary depending on build and circumstance, but no PTS testing will accurately determine that. I have no issues PvPing open world on live with my magnb either alone or in a duo or small group when heavily outnumbered.

By comparison stamplar feels extremely underwhelming compared to magnb in every way and more.

Swallow soul vs force pulse
Swallow soul on a destro staff is still in my eyes better than force pulse. The cost is still much less and the damage is very close, not to mention your healing increases with swallow soul, among other benefits. Force pulse can't be reflected anymore, but it was already easy to deal with wings as magnb.

Concealed weapon vs strife
Other little issues that I have with the class is that concealed weapon is pretty underwhelming compared to swallow soul. The cost of concealed weapon is still higher than strife, and limited in range with not many extra benefits.

Soul harvest is underwhelming
Soul harvest as an individual ultimate is underwhelming in application, especially when you can just save up ultimate for EoTS and get off a good burst combo. In most duels vs anyone magicka or stamina, I'm doing strong enough damage without my ultimate. Soul harvest just doesn't do enough damage, and you can cast merciless resolve and swallow soul during the run-time of EoTS for better damage.

The trap morph of fear is still inferior to mass hysteria
The trap morph of fear needs some serious creativity put into it, no reason to drop mass hysteria. Not much really needs to be said otherwise, it's just not good.

Mirage
This morph could use a little bit of a buff (not to evasion, but to the defense granted by the buff) to make it worth slotting over either the other morph or just another skill. Major evasion was nerfed by 5% which doesn't make a huge difference in application. Still worth using in a 1v1 scenario but pretty lackluster in open world pvp, at least from my builds perspective.

A lot of agreement

FoolishHuman · January 2017

Strife is a support skill. I don't need 8% extra damage, I need to be able to compete with a Templar healer. Obviously that will be even harder now.
The real problem isn't Strife or the cost increase, it's that the low cost was compensating for all the other shortcomings NBs have, but there are no other helpful changes in the patch notes, everything will be as it was except that Strife is more expensive.

xblackroxe · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

We are talking comparison. Every skill got the 8% destro buff not only nb skills. Nothing changes, Strife is still worse than all the other used spammables in pve and on top of that it also lost the only thing it got going for itself which is the extremely cheap cost.
The hot is barely noticable in pvp and totally worthless in pve except in vma where you will feel the cost increase the most. And to 100% everything besides trials, vma, pvp and maybe the dlc vetdungeons should not affect balance at all.
We are considering the bigger picture and its not only about strife its about much more than that. NB is basically nonexistant in pve trial groups and in pvp only good for bombing. Thats it.

Please dont talk about balance and then refer to solo content. Like wtf.

yeah like WTF? The vast majority of content is solo. A high percentage of the group content is soloable.

limiting the discussion to group play and pvp is about as non-big picture as you can get.

However, again, let me pose a question...

What if the cost increase goes up AND funnel health morphis swapped out for one where you lose the HOT entirely, keep the same damage and keep the cheap cost? You claim how useless the heal is and how big the cost is so, let you get the best... lose the useless keep the good and gain the 8% too.

Good to go?

K show me your vids of soloing vet trials. Thx
Okay so you say bc of your soloquesting where this skill somehow is so strong it needs nerfing the other things need to suffer? Makes no sense to me.

I wouldnt slot either of the morphs cuz its simply outclassed by force pulse not only in dps but fp also can kinda aoe on adds of bosses and gives an extra proc for BSW and 3 instead of one for Scathing mage. Also its far better to weave reliable which also in turn makes your merciless hit more often.
For pvp idk what morph i would choose but you know you wont benefit from the 8% increase if you dont have a destro staff ability slotted. And there fp/crushing shock does look like promising replacement with a range interrupt and being non reflectable when it also buffs your damage by 8%.

LiquidPony · January 2017

I main a Stamina Nightblade in raids (rare, I know).

Rather than going off on some rant, I would like to start with some data from http://esoleaderboards.com

In vMoL, here are the leaderboard counts by class:

Dragonknight: 290
Sorcerer: 228
Templar: 225
Nightblade: 88

In vSO:

Dragonknight: 377
Templar: 375
Sorcerer: 363
Nightblade: 176

In vAA:

Sorcerer: 335
Templar: 317
Dragonknight: 307
Nightblade: 138

In vHRC:

Templar: 352
Sorcerer: 345
Dragonknight: 340
Nightblade: 149

Totals:

Dragonknight: 1314 (29.83%)
Sorcerer: 1271 (28.85%)
Templar: 1269 (28.80%)
Nightblade: 551 (12.50%)

It should be extremely obvious that there is something wrong with the Nightblade class in group PvE given the leaderboard stats listed here. People simply do not run Nightblades in raid groups.

I see nothing in this patch to change that imbalance. The Major Force nerf in particular hits Nightblades harder than DKs or Sorcs due to the Hemorrhage passive (+10% critical damage), and the combination of the Major and Minor Force buffs together hit Nightblades harder than any other class (NBs have higher critical ratings than other classes due to the Pressure Points passive, and since we often run Khajiit, we have an additional 8% weapon critical bonus).

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can you please clarify the Major Force nerf from the patch notes. You stated that "Total Critical Damage bonus from this buff remains unchanged," but that doesn't make any sense (and, as far as I can tell, is not mathematically possible). My character with a 100.3% critical damage bonus (50% base + 10% Hemorrhage + 12% Minor Force + 10% Precise Strikes + 18.3% The Shadow) was previously buffed to 130.4% with Major Force (100.3% * 1.3 = 130.4%). With the change to Major Force as an additive bonus reduced to 15% (ignoring the Minor Force nerf for now), my critical damage bonus will be 115.3% (100.3% + 15%). That is a huge reduction in DPS while Major Force is up.

So, what gives? The leaderboards clearly show that Nightblades are massively underrepresented in Trials. I'm not sure how to fix it, but it's clear to me that something needs to be done. Why would anyone run a Nightblade in a Trial? For Minor Savagery?

I don't understand this "balance patch" at all.

I'm certainly not going to QQ over this but it is extremely disappointing and I would love to see some explanation on the Major Force nerf and the total lack of meaningful buffs to the Nightblade class (although I know explanations for changes are even rarer than a Trials group with Nightblades in it).

OdinForge · January 2017

For me strife went from just ever so slightly under 1000 to 1300 in cost, not a significant cost increase in application with the right build changes. Surely it can be used as a support skill, but the damage is very very close to concealed weapon and force pulse. I used recount on PTS to compare swallow soul, force pulse and concealed weapon on target, swallow soul does less but it's not by much at all. You gain extra healing and using the ability helps generate ultimate, it helps a lot.

And concealed weapon cost for me just about 1900 with not much extra benefit, pretty sure lava whip for DK cost over 2K and jabs for my Stamplar cost over 2K stamina even with medium armor and 15%* into cost reduction, and he has to use a set or drink to match my magnb in regen without the extra stam benefit.

Not saying I agree with the change at this current point in time of the game necessarily, just that it kind of makes sense. When compared to other classes and even comparing to other damage sources within the NB family. I think they could have done better to leave it alone for now and balance other more pressing issues, like heavy armor and proc sets.

Dojohoda · January 2017

Any nerf to magicka nightblade is very puzzling and I can only ask .. Why?

Izaki · January 2017

Almost forgot:
The most important change for magicka NBs would be to finally decide whether Twisting Path is a DoT or not?

cpuScientist · January 2017

The strife nerf hurts. Because it came with no buffs to a weak class. I love my Nightblade. I will still run it. I am theory crafting builds for him in the upcoming patch. But at the end of the day it is just a wannabe sorc. Make merciless reapply on arrow. Truly just that helps.

If you want to go further a small buff to path funnel and surprise attack would help.

And finally letting the incap 20% damage increase last longer would be a fantastic bonus aswell.

But none of this matters.

JUST let the arrow reset the merciless proc. Start right there.

Xvorg · January 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm still looking for the improvements to majikaNB . I see a fix with cloak but no improvements . Can someone point me to the improvement ?

Izi, the improvement were the nerfs to other clases.. 'cause logic... Wrobel's logic

Xvorg · January 2017

A little summary of ZoS work with mageblades builds.

1- Thirsty build --> catalyst passive change --> Nerfed
2- Off. Sap Tank --> Nerfed sap essence through BS (dmg and healing). --> nerfed
3- Melee mageblade --> Change incap to disease dmg --> nerfed
4- Cloak mageblade --> No purge, instead a stupid buff you can get from a set, ultra buggy --> nerfed
5- Bomber --> decrease dmg of proxy deto --> nerfed
6- Staff/Strife weaver --> increase cost of Strife --> nerfed
7- Def. Sap Tank --> Increase cost of Strife --> nerfed

Keep on working ZoS.

Xvorg · January 2017

ninjaguyman wrote: »

The fear trap has definitely been improved, however I still think that its lacking somehow.

the trap being invisible to enemies is a very good change imo, as nobody with decent situational awareness would trigger it when enemies could see a pulsing red circle on the ground.

however after testing it, I was kiting enemies around to get them to walk on the trap, and after all that set up I could have just cast mass hysteria for the same effect. in fact, the trap morph of fear does even less than mass hysteria as it doesn't put minor maim on enemies. while mass hysteria makes enemies deal less damage to you, I feel like manifestation of terror should provide you some kind of offensive buff against the feared target. maybe give enemies minor vulnerability?

on a side note I'd like to see someone pull off a rearming trap stacked onto a fear trap. I feel like that would make for a funny wombo combo

The old trap was good, the just need to reduce the amount of people feared from 6 to 3-4

I was planning a hunter build around it with trap beast befre it became mainstream.

Psychodellix · January 2017

Stamina nightblades could really use a decent class DoT. Maybe it's an L2P issue, but as it is I use more weapon abilities for PVE endgame stuff than I do with class abilities. poison injection, endless hail, beast trap, rending slahes, rapid strikes and steel tornado for aoe because of the execute. It seems to be the best that i can use, yet none of it comes from the NB skill line. That is where the main gimp is for us in End game. I could use crippling grasp but its magicka based and takes away from my buffs witch are usually used by magicka. all this gets me to around 27-30k dps single target. (dont have maelstrom weapons) TBS and VO) With the nerf to trap beast, this will surely go down.

So give us a class Aoe as good or better than steel tornado--power extraction just doesnt get it
and give us a class dot better than Poison injection-there are no stam dots

In PVP we are fine. no one will use the fear traps. viper still hits for 4.5k. Velidreth still procs when ever iIlook at someone.

I do like that I can finally ambush from cloak.

Isellskooma · January 2017

Nerf incap, nerf siphoning attacks, nerf mass hysteria.

MythicEmperor · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

No, in fact. Most magblades slot Force Pulse, not Strife and its morphs. This is where the problem lies. Unless you are a sap tank, there is no reason to use Strife over Force Pulse, which receives an 8% damage boost as well. Sorcerers, who can currently do better than a magblade in every category, will receive an 8% damage boost as well. The new standard will be 8% higher, still leaving magblades in the bottom of the barrel.

Xvorg · January 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

No, in fact. Most magblades slot Force Pulse, not Strife and its morphs. This is where the problem lies. Unless you are a sap tank, there is no reason to use Strife over Force Pulse, which receives an 8% damage boost as well. Sorcerers, who can currently do better than a magblade in every category, will receive an 8% damage boost as well. The new standard will be 8% higher, still leaving magblades in the bottom of the barrel.

Mageblades with a staff are only one variation of the mageblades. There are some mageblades who use s/b, DW.

Those are the ones hit harder.

Cerbolt · January 2017

What balance improvements are we actually supposed to be commenting on? Because from what I see nightblade hasn't really been improved at all. My poor magblade is still going to be terrible.

LiquidPony · January 2017

Isellskooma wrote: »

Nerf incap, nerf siphoning attacks, nerf mass hysteria.

Although I enjoy PvP, I sometimes wish it didn't exist. So many unwarranted calls for flat nerfs that end up totally unbalancing the PvE end-game and do nothing to address the existing imbalance in PvP.

Yes, please nerf Siphoning Attacks so that my already marginalized PvE Stamblade becomes completely useless. And sure, nerf Incap while you're at it so that the one thing PvE stam NBs have going for them (solid Maelstrom potential) goes away as well.

I don't understand why so many people find it necessary to junk up what could be a useful feedback thread with useless one-liners.

thankyourat · January 2017

Isellskooma wrote: »

Nerf incap, nerf siphoning attacks, nerf mass hysteria.

That would be the end of magblade. the only reason to play magblade over mag sorc in PvP right now is because you have better sustain. If siphoning attacks get nerfed I would be forced to run more cost reduction and lower my damage. Magblade can't function as a shield stacker they need to keep up pressure. the only burst they have is assassins will proc. Where a mag sorc can afford to add more cost reduction and recovery because the burst potential is higher and shield stacking is a viable playstyle for mag sorc. Most tooltips for curse is the same as my soul tether. So siphoning attacks balance out the two classes magsorc hits harder but they get their Regen from sets. Magblade doesn't hit as hard but gets Regen from abilities. as for incap it needs a nerf. they should just change it back to how it was in thieves guild so make it magic damage and change the stun. Fear is one of those class defining abilities it's really good but compare it too bol, dark deal, dks wings, or sorc mines it's pretty balanced. Every class has an ability that better than other abilities in a certain category or combat.

kadar · January 2017

Isellskooma wrote: »

Nerf incap, nerf siphoning attacks, nerf mass hysteria.

Why?

H4RDFOX · January 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I think they should just change it back to magic damage. The damage is way too high I got hit by a 11k incap and I'm wearing 6 pieces of heavy and all impen.

Wow that's crazy. Maybe some super Alchemist wpn dmg stacker, empowered- incap-from-stealth build or something. I hit Incaps that high every once in a blue moon, but it's on light armor, zero impen builds. I don't think 11k is representative of what's typical against a player in 6 HA and 7 impen.

Yes I usually get hit for 6 to 7k from dueling stamblades and around 9k from gankblades. my armor was already fractured because I was fighting 2 nightblades. Then a 3rd one incaped me from stealth for 11k. Originally I use to defend this skill but in the recent changes in 1t everyone's damage is so much higher this skill is hitting way to hard

Are you considering other variables when making such a claim, and are you sending/receiving the damage? There are few things to consider with the amount of damage you are receiving from incap: 1) clever alchemist, 2) attacks from stealth, 3) pots, and 4) poisons that decrease resistance, steal weapon damage.

I play a stam-blade, and I don't hit as hard with any of my abilities unless I have relentless focus active, popping an essence of weapon power pot, and attacking from stealth. To be blunt, I think many of the non-NB players have expressed their discontent from an assassin based class that it has been nerfed to the ground in certain areas, yet a tank based class can tank in PVP, and a healing class can heal very efficiently in PVP from my experiences.

the increase in strife costs seems reasonable because not only does it do damage but also heals, however with the increased cost it should also heal more, and/or have increased damage, otherwise reduce the amount of the increase.

grim focus should be toggle based along with the resource change, or be a passive similar to camo hunter. I am in favor of the ability to work similar to that of crystal frags with an animation.

H4RDFOX · January 2017

The_Outsider wrote: »

Isellskooma wrote: »

Nerf incap, nerf siphoning attacks, nerf mass hysteria.

Why?

Sounds like someone at the receiving end of a nightblade.
Individuals who are seeking needs to classes should be considered to a certain extent, but not like that. Give reason as to why they need a nerf.

thankyourat · January 2017

H4RDFOX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I think they should just change it back to magic damage. The damage is way too high I got hit by a 11k incap and I'm wearing 6 pieces of heavy and all impen.

Wow that's crazy. Maybe some super Alchemist wpn dmg stacker, empowered- incap-from-stealth build or something. I hit Incaps that high every once in a blue moon, but it's on light armor, zero impen builds. I don't think 11k is representative of what's typical against a player in 6 HA and 7 impen.

Yes I usually get hit for 6 to 7k from dueling stamblades and around 9k from gankblades. my armor was already fractured because I was fighting 2 nightblades. Then a 3rd one incaped me from stealth for 11k. Originally I use to defend this skill but in the recent changes in 1t everyone's damage is so much higher this skill is hitting way to hard

Are you considering other variables when making such a claim, and are you sending/receiving the damage? There are few things to consider with the amount of damage you are receiving from incap: 1) clever alchemist, 2) attacks from stealth, 3) pots, and 4) poisons that decrease resistance, steal weapon damage.

I play a stam-blade, and I don't hit as hard with any of my abilities unless I have relentless focus active, popping an essence of weapon power pot, and attacking from stealth. To be blunt, I think many of the non-NB players have expressed their discontent from an assassin based class that it has been nerfed to the ground in certain areas, yet a tank based class can tank in PVP, and a healing class can heal very efficiently in PVP from my experiences.

the increase in strife costs seems reasonable because not only does it do damage but also heals, however with the increased cost it should also heal more, and/or have increased damage, otherwise reduce the amount of the increase.

grim focus should be toggle based along with the resource change, or be a passive similar to camo hunter. I am in favor of the ability to work similar to that of crystal frags with an animation.

Well yes I'm sure he was fully buffed, but shouldn't you balance skills around people having their buffs up. I main a nightblade and my nightblade has been spec for both magicka and stamina, but incap is hitting too hard especially against light armor builds. You don't even need to spec'd for ganking to one shot a light armor build with a stamblade and for the most part that's all because of incap it's even hitting heavy armor builds for over 8k all for 50 ultimate that's kind of op. Alot of it isn't incap it's just stamblades weapon damage stacking but you have to balance the skill on min max builds. Honestly there was never any reason to change it to disease damage. before it switch I was hitting people for 7 to 9k soul harvest on my stamblade. The only thing is with a incap nerf no one would use it over dbos which you can make an argument of it being better than incap as is

Duukar · January 2017

PVP player here.

With a fire destro ability on my bar and fire destro equipped my tooltip for strife went up by what appears to be almost 10%... 8% duhhh..

So did all the other single target spells on my main bar. Flame reach does 16k now tool tip. 22k merciless proc. Will i maybe throw a defending Ice destro on my back bar? Not sure it's worth giving up healing ward, but it does provide me with options. I dunno.

Im upset by the nerf to strife, but aty least with my current build i traded slightly increased cost for a big dmg boost.

old cost 893 new cost 1368..... Still cheaper than Force pulse with is 1935.

BAH!

Xvorg · January 2017

Duukar wrote: »

PVP player here.

With a fire destro ability on my bar and fire destro equipped my tooltip for strife went up by what appears to be almost 10%... 8% duhhh..

So did all the other single target spells on my main bar. Flame reach does 16k now tool tip. 22k merciless proc. Will i maybe throw a defending Ice destro on my back bar? Not sure it's worth giving up healing ward, but it does provide me with options. I dunno.

Im upset by the nerf to strife, but aty least with my current build i traded slightly increased cost for a big dmg boost.

old cost 893 new cost 1368..... Still cheaper than Force pulse with is 1935.

BAH!

A dmg increase given to all is a dmg increase given to none.

H4RDFOX · January 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

H4RDFOX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I think they should just change it back to magic damage. The damage is way too high I got hit by a 11k incap and I'm wearing 6 pieces of heavy and all impen.

Wow that's crazy. Maybe some super Alchemist wpn dmg stacker, empowered- incap-from-stealth build or something. I hit Incaps that high every once in a blue moon, but it's on light armor, zero impen builds. I don't think 11k is representative of what's typical against a player in 6 HA and 7 impen.

Yes I usually get hit for 6 to 7k from dueling stamblades and around 9k from gankblades. my armor was already fractured because I was fighting 2 nightblades. Then a 3rd one incaped me from stealth for 11k. Originally I use to defend this skill but in the recent changes in 1t everyone's damage is so much higher this skill is hitting way to hard

Are you considering other variables when making such a claim, and are you sending/receiving the damage? There are few things to consider with the amount of damage you are receiving from incap: 1) clever alchemist, 2) attacks from stealth, 3) pots, and 4) poisons that decrease resistance, steal weapon damage.

I play a stam-blade, and I don't hit as hard with any of my abilities unless I have relentless focus active, popping an essence of weapon power pot, and attacking from stealth. To be blunt, I think many of the non-NB players have expressed their discontent from an assassin based class that it has been nerfed to the ground in certain areas, yet a tank based class can tank in PVP, and a healing class can heal very efficiently in PVP from my experiences.

the increase in strife costs seems reasonable because not only does it do damage but also heals, however with the increased cost it should also heal more, and/or have increased damage, otherwise reduce the amount of the increase.

grim focus should be toggle based along with the resource change, or be a passive similar to camo hunter. I am in favor of the ability to work similar to that of crystal frags with an animation.

Well yes I'm sure he was fully buffed, but shouldn't you balance skills around people having their buffs up. I main a nightblade and my nightblade has been spec for both magicka and stamina, but incap is hitting too hard especially against light armor builds. You don't even need to spec'd for ganking to one shot a light armor build with a stamblade and for the most part that's all because of incap it's even hitting heavy armor builds for over 8k all for 50 ultimate that's kind of op. Alot of it isn't incap it's just stamblades weapon damage stacking but you have to balance the skill on min max builds. Honestly there was never any reason to change it to disease damage. before it switch I was hitting people for 7 to 9k soul harvest on my stamblade. The only thing is with a incap nerf no one would use it over dbos which you can make an argument of it being better than incap as is

I disagree with nerfing, which is what you are suggesting. Are these light armor wearers buffed with defense? What are their resistance values compared to the damage values of the attacker? Are they being hit while mounted? There's a lot of context to consider.

Incapacitate is working as intended, it's an ultimate for an assassin who needs to be in melee range, and it's cost value is just at the right spot. If it's buffs that are causing the damage output to be too high for some folks then maybe the buffs need to be reworked.

cpuScientist · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PVP player here.

With a fire destro ability on my bar and fire destro equipped my tooltip for strife went up by what appears to be almost 10%... 8% duhhh..

So did all the other single target spells on my main bar. Flame reach does 16k now tool tip. 22k merciless proc. Will i maybe throw a defending Ice destro on my back bar? Not sure it's worth giving up healing ward, but it does provide me with options. I dunno.

Im upset by the nerf to strife, but aty least with my current build i traded slightly increased cost for a big dmg boost.

old cost 893 new cost 1368..... Still cheaper than Force pulse with is 1935.

BAH!

A dmg increase given to all is a dmg increase given to none.

Precisely.

cpuScientist · January 2017

This is really a huge boost to fire staffs though. I guess it's fire or bust. Whatever...