Vaoh wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Dear OP:

If you're comparing ESO to WoW then you obviously should be playing WoW. I dont want this game to be ANYTHING like WoW. I tried it and I hated it. WoW is WoW and ESO is ESO. I bought ESO because I have adored the franchise. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and now Tamriel. I get enough KungFu Panda from my kid watching it on Disney. I am completely uninterested in playing a WoW clone. Stop it!

Lmao. It's sad how many comments like this have appeared. People don't like to read.

I want ESO to be nothing like WoW. However, I'd like ESO to release at least a fraction of the sheer amount of content that WoW does within the same timeframe they've done it.

Take everything ESO has added since launch in terms of new content, and compare it to the first WoW expansion. You'll notice a stark contrast in endgame content in specific.

Nothing about this thread says "Make ESO like WoW!" It just compares ESO to probably the most successful MMO and shows a very interesting reason for it. Coincidentally WoW has a massive endgame PvE community while ESO has an extremely frail and nearly dead endgame PvE community (likely even worse than our PvP population).

Oh I read it. And Im sick of WoW dropouts trying to add WoW to other MMOs....

..... Dont even discuss WoW in any proximity to ESO. If you long for WoW features or styles... go back to WoW. PERIOD. You can repeat what you just said over and over and over til one of us dies and it will not detract from the fact that any comparison is a nostalgic yearning to play WoW.

Claims to read my posts.....

....then claims I'm a WoW player trying to bring WoW into ESO, despite my main post explicitly stating I've never played WoW or have the intention to.

Some people here are thought-provokingly dumb. Read the main post rather than comment like you have PTSD over WoW. It's hilarious, but also getting sad to continue reading now.

How can you seriously comment on how WoW's content in the formative years is greater than ESO's content in the formative years, if you've never actually played WoW's content?

Bolded for emphasis.

Vaoh wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Dear OP:

If you're comparing ESO to WoW then you obviously should be playing WoW. I dont want this game to be ANYTHING like WoW. I tried it and I hated it. WoW is WoW and ESO is ESO. I bought ESO because I have adored the franchise. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and now Tamriel. I get enough KungFu Panda from my kid watching it on Disney. I am completely uninterested in playing a WoW clone. Stop it!

Lmao. It's sad how many comments like this have appeared. People don't like to read.

I want ESO to be nothing like WoW. However, I'd like ESO to release at least a fraction of the sheer amount of content that WoW does within the same timeframe they've done it.

Take everything ESO has added since launch in terms of new content, and compare it to the first WoW expansion. You'll notice a stark contrast in endgame content in specific.

Nothing about this thread says "Make ESO like WoW!" It just compares ESO to probably the most successful MMO and shows a very interesting reason for it. Coincidentally WoW has a massive endgame PvE community while ESO has an extremely frail and nearly dead endgame PvE community (likely even worse than our PvP population).

Oh I read it. And Im sick of WoW dropouts trying to add WoW to other MMOs....

..... Dont even discuss WoW in any proximity to ESO. If you long for WoW features or styles... go back to WoW. PERIOD. You can repeat what you just said over and over and over til one of us dies and it will not detract from the fact that any comparison is a nostalgic yearning to play WoW.

Claims to read my posts.....

....then claims I'm a WoW player trying to bring WoW into ESO, despite my main post explicitly stating I've never played WoW or have the intention to.

Some people here are thought-provokingly dumb. Read the main post rather than comment like you have PTSD over WoW. It's hilarious, but also getting sad to continue reading now.

How can you seriously comment on how WoW's content in the formative years is greater than ESO's content in the formative years, if you've never actually played WoW's content?

Bolded for emphasis.

Read the entire main post. You might understand the reason for this thread a bit better. Gl to you

Trust me I did - but without actually trying any of the content that Blizzard has pumped out, it sounds like you're asking for 100 Ford Cortinas, when in fact you should be happy with the 10 Porsches you've currently got.

You'll only know the difference once you've driven both.

I have played both wow and eso since each game launched. The business models are fundamentally different. Wow is purely subscription based. Micro transactions are available, but not the principle source of revenue.

Elder scrolls is now free to play. Having adopted this model, the only real source of revenue available is through micro transactions and purchasable DLC. If they make big expansions with lots of content, they only lose development money. It is much more financially sound for them to focus on cosmetic crown store items and new Motifs then reinventing the wheel every few months.

The real reason for wow's end game success is powerful gear. Wow makes a new expansion and a few things happen.
1. People pony up cash for the expansion itself. This helps recoup some of the development costs. ESO kind of does this too.
2. Every expansion, there is a huge increase in power/gear that is ONLY available to the people who have the most recent expansion. Since every one wants a powerful character and not feel like a complete gimp, they buy the expansion and plow the content to regear and hit the next level of endgame stuff.
3. To put it ESO terms, imagine if you only have the basic game, you can hit level 50, but you'll never have access to champion points. Also imagine you can't equip any level 50 gear beyond green quality. Now imagine every DLC allows you to use like 50 CP. When you hit the CP limit legendary quality unlocks for gear. If you are a basic player and queue a dungeon with another player with 800 CP and dripping with legendaries, the gap in power will be painfully obvious. Who would you rather be?
4. Each wow expansion is an investment of money, time, and attachment to your character. ESO just doesn't have that same hook to it. Since any character can do anything, you can just drop some gold and be a whole different type of character. This is a double edged sword, as it's one of the things I like most about this game, total freedom.

Is wow better, no. These are different games with different focuses. Wow constantly raises the bar on endgame content, but you can only get there if you bought into the latest expansion. ESO just never raises the bar really. Most people have a 50 with a ton of CP and you don't feel any stronger than someone who has been playing a few days. If my only incentive to keep playing is just to "look cooler" than the other guy, I can do that with the crown store items, so why play endgame at all? You start out at the end.

The Ferrari 488 GTB has only two doors compared to the Datsun 1200's 4 doors, therefore the Datsun is better...?

I would argue that they increased the "end game" content hugely with 1T since all zones can be played and enjoyed at "end game" now. But maybe that's because I view "end game" differently to you.

When you say "end game" you mean "better gear".

Personally I think the wow model of "get this gear so i can get that gear so i can get this gear" to be utter ***. I don't want to have to grind dungeons in sequence so that I can get finally have gear good enough to start grinding the next lot of gear in the next dungeon. Oh look, new DLC dropped, now all my BiS is redundant and I get to grind the NEW dungeon until I have that full set. Lucky me!

Screw that.

I'm happy that I can choose what content I want to play in pretty much any order. I'm glad that most gear is equivalent and there are a heap of viable builds for every class. I happy that I can tinker with different sets and play styles and find one that I enjoy most.

JD2013 wrote: »

I would definitely like to see some endgame trials/raids more in the style of other mmo's (even WoW) because as it stands, the trials just feel like (slightly) longer dungeons with more people.

I would also like to see longer dungeons. You can faceroll them in 10 - 15 mins easily.

The big problem here is that they have repeatedly stated they're trying not to be like other mmo's out there. And so they design and do things differently. The problem with doing things differently is that it doesn't always work and it doesn't always keep your players busy. And make no mistake, we definitely need content to keep us busy and coming back.

So please ZOS do look to other mmo's out there and observe how they do things and take even a little inspiration from them. You don't have to copy them like for like. Just give us some longer content and more of Tamriel to love.

This is essentially my feeling as well. From how I see it, the fact you can faceroll normal dungeons let alone a lot of vet ones (especially when your team is geared and knows what is doing....) is the biggest issue I have always had with the game.

Nearly every single dungeon and even trial is basically just a dps-fest. Aside from not standing in stupid or blocking, there is just too little happening most of the time to make them feel like raids do in other games. There is no need for crowd control, no need for tanking even in some cases, and heals? well..... most ppl again seem to want to take as much dps as possible and to heck with heals. Sad.

Raiding in the truest sense was supposed to include all roles and all being equally essential to success, while progressively making things more challenging up the scale. We just don't really have much of that here, despite outward appearances of content. Most of the guilds I used to "raid with" in ESO are all gone as everyone just got bored.

I do think there are more ppl interested in this than may seem, but since saying you do just earns you "elitist" labels and so forth, ppl keep it quiet. To admit that you want to "raid" in most MMOs is risky at best since it's practically become synonymous with a dirty word these days, let alone in this game since we are "supposed to be different..." *sigh*

Valethar wrote: »

Blizzard has far more money and resources than ZOS does. Expecting ZOS to put out the same type of content is pure fantasy. ZOS simply doesn't have the money, or the talent, to put out that type of product. They'd be hard pressed to deal with just quality or quantity, there's no way they could remotely come close to both.

They can't even support ESO on subscriber numbers, something Blizzard doesn't have to worry about with WoW. That's why we have clown crates and overpriced recolors in the store, with a B2P (soon to be F2P?) model, rather than a standard subscription model.

Would it be nice to see ZOS put out that kind of content for ESO on a regular basis? Absolutely. But it's not going to happen. They don't have the resources, or the player numbers required to justify investing in those resources, to make it happen.

Given that they have stated a zone takes 9 months to make from inception to finish, and I would imagine dungeons and trials take a few months to make, as well as systems like housing etc, and they are on tight deadlines to put out 4 updates a year, as well as small fix patches, server stuff, I genuinely don't think they have the time to be making an expansion pack.

WoW comes with one expansion pack and the odd patch in a year or more.

Do the maths here

I agree that the content here is smaller. However, I would like to see Blizzard put out the content for WoW in such short times. They wouldn't. They are indeed being propped up by their subscriber base, I agree. But don't forget now that you can get a sub by paying in-game gold for a token for game time. Given the amount of money that you can earn quite easily in WoW, I am willing to bet that a big chunk of their subs come from that.

I like the fact that endgame does not only have to be about raiding.

I like the fact that you can play solo if you want and still have access to the best equipment.

I like the fact that crafting is still a viable gearing option (granted it could use a lsight buff and jewelcrafting).

What is the cost to obtain access to all that content you listed in WoW? Then include the monthly subscription for the period it will take you to reach a level where you can enjoy that.

Compare that to ESO.

Now compare infrastructure (including human capital) of Blizzard vs Zeni.

I think, pound for pound and dollar for dollar, ESO hasn't done too badly with its offering vs costs vs infrastructure.

Vaoh wrote: »

Perhaps the Veteran versions are for the "1%", a number you are likely a bit off with. 5% is easily much closer. vMoL in particular may be for the 1%, but only because there are so few guilds willing to take new players to complete it with how mechanics intensive it is. Similar to vMA in that respect.

When the actual endgame PvE population is so low, your chances of joining a vMoL run as a no-name random player, even with max CP/great gear, is about 0.00000001%. vMoL runners right now only pick those they know can get the job done now from their high-end guild lists.

Maybe 5% but still 5% vs. 95%, the buisness choice is made. I belong to the 1% part, and of a group that cleared vMoL HM; and in the end am the last one to still play ESO, mostly because I also like the casual part and the lore. ; The guys (and girls) that left just had different things going on in life; new jobs; babies; etc... not really the lack of content was their motivation to leave the game.

But I feel that your actual complaint, is that you don't have a raiding guild to do vMoL on a regular basis, and therefore advocating for more end game content so that more people would actually move towards endgame, is that the case? Otherwise, yes; mostly I run with the same 12 person group all the time (not even a guild). Just because our working times are matching and because we like each other; half the talk during raid is not raid related, therefore we also rarely make it to the leaderboard anymore