Cyrodiil is either really fun (Constantly winning, but the enemy puts up enough of a fight that you remember the battle), or really horrible (Constantly loosing, regardless of the fight you put up).

You're always on one side or the other.

I like PvE because I like collecting stuff. It's nice and casual and gives me something to do until the next solo DLC. Right now I'm addicted to monster helm farming, I just wish that they came with a hat costume.

MissKiwiana wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

MissKiwiana wrote: »

I've not yet tried PVP in this game but did in WoW and reason I don't like it is my reaction is slow and it is also gang up style tactics that make it extremely unfair and wrong.

People need to cheat to be good at PVP ie: Bot

I've tried DPS and heals at PVP I last a little longer with a dps char but my healers were dead in mere secs.

Who loves dying ? and dying a bucket load to players who get their kicks out of beating up another player.

My experience with PVP is that's its bullying.

PVP for me does not = fun and good times but misery and loathing.

You get an over dramatic lol.

It's not bullying unless you are seriously talking about people hate messaging you or ... I guess ... relentlessly tea bagging you. Conversely every opponent is a walking sachel of alliance points. If I'm riding solo or with 23 others and I see you, I'm going to attack. It's nothing personal. You're just PVPing and in the way.

Also if there is a fight where there is a 561 and a level 14, I'm killing the lowbie first every time. It's just easier to deal with less opponents, so knocking off the easier one just makes sense. Furthermore if I'm in a Zerg battle it's easier to proc Vicious Death on a low CP player. A lot goes into it other than just, "I'm gonna ruin that guy's day! Muhuhaha!"

Anyway, it's really not alll that scary and just takes some practice. Don't take it so personally. 99% of people aren't trying to bully you, they just want more AP.

I think your just trying to justify your actions to me and I won't buy it. Your a bully. You don't have to message someone to be a bully, smacking the crap out of someone over and over again is bullying. That is unless that other person is a Bot then by all means take that rubbish out.

I just don't enjoy PVP period because I know what its like to be killed over and over and over again by those that like to muscle over another player.

Hahaha. Seriously? I'm like the nicest person in Tamriel. Feel free to ask literally any person I've ever played with, or against.

You literally are trying to bully a person you have never met into calling themselves a bully for PVPing in a PVP area.

The irony is strong within you.

I'd rather be cooperative than competitive any day. PvP mostly comes down to zerg size and sets anyway - there is no even footing and there never will be.

MissKiwiana wrote: »

I've not yet tried PVP in this game but did in WoW and reason I don't like it is my reaction is slow and it is also gang up style tactics that make it extremely unfair and wrong.

People need to cheat to be good at PVP ie: Bot

I've tried DPS and heals at PVP I last a little longer with a dps char but my healers were dead in mere secs.

Who loves dying ? and dying a bucket load to players who get their kicks out of beating up another player.

My experience with PVP is that's its bullying.

PVP for me does not = fun and good times but misery and loathing.

Can we not compare the simple act of dying in a video game to the act of being mentally and/or physically abused.

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

PVP misconceptions

The largest misconception I've read on this post is about end game PVPers needing to be min-maxed YouTube builds. That is simply not the case. The only place people will actually call you out on your build is HERE, on this very forum. If you can handle yourself in PVP no one cares what you run. I've had people question my build exactly 3 times in a year and a half. One was from a random in a group who I never played with before or after and his opinions ended up being, well, 100% wrong. The other two were from guildies. The first would just laugh, call me a crazy person because he couldn't do it and that was that. The other was from a new guildie 2 weeks ago. He told me how my build didn't make sense and then stopped after the 3rd time the group died and I was still standing. Now we joke about his spreadsheets.

Anyway, for the most part, if you can hold your own no good players will care what you run.

Other Things ...

- Just like you wouldn't want to aggro mobs in a dungeon, if you are in a PVP group you have to listen and respect the crown. If you refuse to, you need to find another group.
- The crown will make or break your group. There are some fantastic leaders out there and some awful ones.
- 24 people in a group is a lot to manage. Try not to talk so much.
- If you see an Emp hiding in a tower surrounded by dozens of people, you are being AP farmed.
- You don't have to group. You can solo resources to help your team.
- There are an equal amount of jerks who play both. Don't kid yourself.


Lastly, if you're not competitive I get it. If you just think everyone is a blood thirsty meanie head, well, you're simply incorrect.

Well said mate, especially the Emp bit... lol!

Let me tell you a story:
One weekend we decided to make a PvP event in my guild to show the newbs that Cyrodill is not so scary and to teach them how to PvP. Two groups: AD and EP, none of us is hardcore PvP-er, all in some random PvE gear. Let's have fun, shall we?
OK, we picked up one keep on AD territory in a low populated campaign and started to explain how to use siege, then how to defend the keep. Suddenly, out of nowhere two Blues showed up and wiped us all... One was "unkillable" DK with Eye of the Storm, second was a invisible NB pro ganker, both 700+CP, flying the same guild colours.
We picked another keep in the opposite side of Cyro and tried again. Guess what? 5 min later the same two a-holes came after us... We gave up and decided to run some delves instead.
And you want us to like PvP? Really?
As somebody above said, PvP-ers want to lure PvE-rs to Cyro only to have easy kills and farm AP, so thank you - if you want cannon fodder go and gank some mobs. I would rather go and fight Molag Kena naked and die thousand times, at least I can learn something from it and get some nice gear instead of teabagging.
Sometimes you can find nice group of ppl in Cyro and play hide and seek taking resources and attacking keep - no hard feelings, everybody is having fun. But most of the times it is to be ganked or not to be ganked by some uber-pro, which is extremely boring and frustrating.

P.S. And yes, we come to Cyro mainly for the Warhorn, Vigor and Caltrops, because there is no true PvP in ESO.

I don't PvP for a number of reasons. My first experiences with PvP were in DAoC in 2001. During that time RvR was something I simply didn't understand. When I went out there I had no idea what to do. That first impression has stuck with me throughout the 16 years I've been playing MMOs. Now, don't get me wrong, I go out to Cyrodiil to get shards and achievements. Heck, I've even bested a couple of solo players...but it's not something I understand. I suppose if found a buddy or someone who was into it to show me the ropes, I'd be all over it.

The other thing I've found is the gear requirements are pretty high. It appears you need a proc set (while I do have one toon with Viper, not all my Cyrodiil ready toons do). Also, it seems like there are cheaters in Cyrodiil - I hear that there are folks who do nothing but macro the fights. Finally, getting a group might prove difficult (that's only speculation on my part).

Maybe if PvP were not so complicated to get involved with, if it were easier access, I'd join.

wazzz56 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

How is it pointless? It's about competing with other real players and not repetitive npcs who swing their sword the same way every time. If anything, pvp is the real end game content. People grind pve to be ready for pvp, not the other way around. Other than maybe getting vigor and war horn.

@DannyLV702
I don't consider killing ppl over and over "fun" or competitive. If I wanted that, I'd go back to battefield

I consider fun and competitive...working and organizing a group to progress through a 12 man trial or a hard dungeon

I'd consider even a PvE version of Cyrodil which requires strategic co-op amongst multiple 24 man groups fun

This games PvP to me is very boring and if it didn't have siege and keep caps, I'd never have gone there

@NewBlacksmurf
There are extremely high levels of group cooperation with the best pvp guilds/groups..and it is a huge sense of accomplishment to wipe a zerg 3 to 4 times your groups size, to defend a keep for hours while each opposing faction is attacking from different sides, to run a scroll back while getting chased down from one end of the map to the other. There is a lot to offer..seriously, I hated pvp at first, now I love it....it has a steep learning curve, it does not all need to be meta proc builds ( I do not run them and do just fine) . Also you get far less "freak out freddies" on the mic in PvP then in PvE in my experience.

@wazzz56

Those high levels which i honestly tried in a few different guilds. It was organized and it was even cooperation to have 75-100 folks in 4-6 different groups run over Cyrodil.

I'd do it for hours and then I'd just stop.
My idea of fun isn't riding on a mount for 5.10.15 mins at a time.....siege and then rinse and repeat

So I've tried scroll runs
...my idea of fun isn't riding and sprinting / mounted for 5, 10, 20 mins in groups across the map

And there's absolutely no interest in smal PvP or stuff. It's just not fun or enjoyable unless you're farming AP

I went along with them cause I needed shards honestly and wanted to discover the delves


I've had more fun grinding in delves than doing PvP
The only interest I have is for siege but it's gotta be about 1/3rd size of the whole map or it's boring to me
The only thing I want from PvP now is a motif for all factions but there's the AH so no point in going there.

PvP doesn't drop loot that is gearing me up so it's pointless for me.

The reasons I hate PVP are the following:

1. I truly dislike the Cyrodill map. It takes forever to walk across it and it gets really, really frustrating if you're just trying to get to know the areas and the PVP experience and people start nuking you. To add to the frustration, you're transported back to a shrine that is miles away from where you were (this coupled with lag makes the whole experience truly painful).
2. Like some people already said, the reason I play this game is just to have fun and relax. PVP is (to me) the opposite of it, it's all about competing and feeling better than the opponent - which I don't particularly enjoy, I'm more of a collaborative/team's guy and that's why I enjoy PVE group content so much.
3. IC is really cool nowadays in my opinion. It was awful back in the beginning when you'd lose most of your stones if you'd get killed by players, but now they've made that mechanic better. To me IC is the only enjoyable "PVP" right now.
4. This reason is actually silly and completely biased on my part: Since I found out that the Legate Dye was locked behind months of PvPing I generated a kind of hate towards PVP. Nevertheless, I decided to give it a try and ended up facing the aforementioned reasons above to dislike it even further.
5. Don't really enjoy the highly competitive occasionally utterly unfriendly community.

In my opinion, if they would divide both game types both communities could end up happier.

But yeah, that's about it for me

PvP just isn't a fun thing to do. In this game it's to glitchy and laggy, it's never balanced cause it can't be in a PvE based game. There are also always that group of players that roam around together slaughtering people alone then trolling them to no end.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

How is it pointless? It's about competing with other real players and not repetitive npcs who swing their sword the same way every time. If anything, pvp is the real end game content. People grind pve to be ready for pvp, not the other way around. Other than maybe getting vigor and war horn.

@DannyLV702
I don't consider killing ppl over and over "fun" or competitive. If I wanted that, I'd go back to battefield

I consider fun and competitive...working and organizing a group to progress through a 12 man trial or a hard dungeon

I'd consider even a PvE version of Cyrodil which requires strategic co-op amongst multiple 24 man groups fun

This games PvP to me is very boring and if it didn't have siege and keep caps, I'd never have gone there

@NewBlacksmurf
There are extremely high levels of group cooperation with the best pvp guilds/groups..and it is a huge sense of accomplishment to wipe a zerg 3 to 4 times your groups size, to defend a keep for hours while each opposing faction is attacking from different sides, to run a scroll back while getting chased down from one end of the map to the other. There is a lot to offer..seriously, I hated pvp at first, now I love it....it has a steep learning curve, it does not all need to be meta proc builds ( I do not run them and do just fine) . Also you get far less "freak out freddies" on the mic in PvP then in PvE in my experience.

@wazzz56

Those high levels which i honestly tried in a few different guilds. It was organized and it was even cooperation to have 75-100 folks in 4-6 different groups run over Cyrodil.

I'd do it for hours and then I'd just stop.
My idea of fun isn't riding on a mount for 5.10.15 mins at a time.....siege and then rinse and repeat

So I've tried scroll runs
...my idea of fun isn't riding and sprinting / mounted for 5, 10, 20 mins in groups across the map

And there's absolutely no interest in smal PvP or stuff. It's just not fun or enjoyable unless you're farming AP

I went along with them cause I needed shards honestly and wanted to discover the delves


I've had more fun grinding in delves than doing PvP
The only interest I have is for siege but it's gotta be about 1/3rd size of the whole map or it's boring to me
The only thing I want from PvP now is a motif for all factions but there's the AH so no point in going there.

PvP doesn't drop loot that is gearing me up so it's pointless for me.

@NewBlacksmurf
all I took from that is you need higher mount speed..lol jk jk..I respect it

Interesting thread..

It seems there are a lot of misconceptions around from both sides here.. I don't get why people think the PVP community is toxic - I've never seen that apart from the odd hate whisper from the odd annoyed kid who just lost. I think its largely a mindset thing.. I've seen posts here effectively amounting to the view that getting ganked is bullying? Odd.. I adapted and built to handle most 1-player ganks - On the odd occasions that the gank worked and it wasn't down to me making a mistake - I've often sent the guy a messages complimenting him on the hit - then we've often chatted about how he did it etc..
There's nothing toxic there.. Bullying? If 2 boxers willingly step in the ring - is the winner now a bully?

To PVP you just need a mindset where dying will happen - a lot - and it isn't personal, vindictive, bullying or anything like that - its just other people playing the same aspect of the game as you.. In facts its a really laid-back kind of mindset where you just let go of getting stressed or upset about anything.

I also PVP ungrouped. That doesn't mean I avoid all friendlies - I'll often run with the zerg - but I'll just as often watch an empty keep that I think *may* get attacked to give early warning - or run around behind lines (ours or theirs) capping resources.. And that gives another freedom in game - nobody is relying on me. No complaints that I'm not taking my turn clicking the orb thing in the middle of the room - no complaints that my dps is low or I'm focussing the wrong target.. I'm not letting anyone down if I suddenly hide, stop playing for 20 mins to see to the kids. I'm not letting anyone down if I mess up.


PVE, on the other hand - seen a lot of threads on here recently complaining about kicking from groups, not high enough CP, queuing as tanks when not tanks etc.. But after recently using the group finder (desperate to get some willpower gear - yes, PVPers hate having to do this kind of thing for months to get their gear/undaunted), I've only had one bad experience - which was some weird bug not letting me port to the instance (saying full) - I was letting them know in grp chat.. said I'd try for a few more minutes.. finally got in - said 'Here now' and bang.. vote kick....
Then there was the time doing random WGT - someone wanted any SPC gear.. I got a drop, said he could have it, gave him it - and didn't get a bean in return. To be fair, I wasn't asking for anything - but would have expected some token of thanks at least..
But then in that same run, there were some of us who obviously didn't know the mechanics and one of the guys did - and was really patient and helpful in getting us through it despite a number of wipes - but the downside is that it was a long run - and unlike PVP, I couldn't just 'take a break' for 20 mins - ppl were relying on me - helpful ppl - so it became fairly stressful to finish it (compared to PVP anyway).

There's some weird elitism in PVE too.. seem plenty of messages - in zone or guild looking for people to run certain dungeons.. must be CP350+ etc.. I'm thinking.. I've solo'd that one, but aren't good enough to do it in a grp with you..?

I don't get the 'PVP is pointless cos there's no reward' view either.. Surely playing is its own reward? You don't have a game of pool with your mates at the pub because you know that you'll get to take home one of the balls if you win do you? You play simply for the fun of playing. I tend to think that PVE is the less fun part - because it needs all these incentives to get people to do it. That's like work that is - you only do it for the money - not cos you like it.

For me, PVP is endgame. I loved the single-player, levelling up storyline and didn't just skip it to get to 'endgame'. I enjoyed it. But I don't like repeating it. Same for dungeons - I don't like repeating them. And 'Dailies' in MMO's.. Whoever thought of them must have been some strange sadistic womble. I love movies, but there's only so many times you can re-watch the same one.. But PVP is like playing any team sport - some seem to see it as repetitive -but really, you never know how its going to play out - and you can play it in so many different ways too.

Biro123 wrote: »

Interesting thread..

It seems there are a lot of misconceptions around from both sides here.. I don't get why people think the PVP community is toxic - I've never seen that apart from the odd hate whisper from the odd annoyed kid who just lost. I think its largely a mindset thing.. I've seen posts here effectively amounting to the view that getting ganked is bullying? Odd.. I adapted and built to handle most 1-player ganks - On the odd occasions that the gank worked and it wasn't down to me making a mistake - I've often sent the guy a messages complimenting him on the hit - then we've often chatted about how he did it etc..
There's nothing toxic there.. Bullying? If 2 boxers willingly step in the ring - is the winner now a bully?

To PVP you just need a mindset where dying will happen - a lot - and it isn't personal, vindictive, bullying or anything like that - its just other people playing the same aspect of the game as you.. In facts its a really laid-back kind of mindset where you just let go of getting stressed or upset about anything.

I also PVP ungrouped. That doesn't mean I avoid all friendlies - I'll often run with the zerg - but I'll just as often watch an empty keep that I think *may* get attacked to give early warning - or run around behind lines (ours or theirs) capping resources.. And that gives another freedom in game - nobody is relying on me. No complaints that I'm not taking my turn clicking the orb thing in the middle of the room - no complaints that my dps is low or I'm focussing the wrong target.. I'm not letting anyone down if I suddenly hide, stop playing for 20 mins to see to the kids. I'm not letting anyone down if I mess up.


PVE, on the other hand - seen a lot of threads on here recently complaining about kicking from groups, not high enough CP, queuing as tanks when not tanks etc.. But after recently using the group finder (desperate to get some willpower gear - yes, PVPers hate having to do this kind of thing for months to get their gear/undaunted), I've only had one bad experience - which was some weird bug not letting me port to the instance (saying full) - I was letting them know in grp chat.. said I'd try for a few more minutes.. finally got in - said 'Here now' and bang.. vote kick....
Then there was the time doing random WGT - someone wanted any SPC gear.. I got a drop, said he could have it, gave him it - and didn't get a bean in return. To be fair, I wasn't asking for anything - but would have expected some token of thanks at least..
But then in that same run, there were some of us who obviously didn't know the mechanics and one of the guys did - and was really patient and helpful in getting us through it despite a number of wipes - but the downside is that it was a long run - and unlike PVP, I couldn't just 'take a break' for 20 mins - ppl were relying on me - helpful ppl - so it became fairly stressful to finish it (compared to PVP anyway).

There's some weird elitism in PVE too.. seem plenty of messages - in zone or guild looking for people to run certain dungeons.. must be CP350+ etc.. I'm thinking.. I've solo'd that one, but aren't good enough to do it in a grp with you..?

I don't get the 'PVP is pointless cos there's no reward' view either.. Surely playing is its own reward? You don't have a game of pool with your mates at the pub because you know that you'll get to take home one of the balls if you win do you? You play simply for the fun of playing. I tend to think that PVE is the less fun part - because it needs all these incentives to get people to do it. That's like work that is - you only do it for the money - not cos you like it.

I could not have said it better. I'm not that good with words. But quoted this for /agree