zzz wrote: »

I am a little confused over the direction ESO has been going in.

The Elder Scrolls is a massive IP and Zenimax are custodians of it. While people will have varying perceptions over their management of it, my own is that they are sailing very close to the wind in a way that has potential to affect sales of other titles in the IP. Personally, I think they are gambling with Bethesda's raisin d'etre (or, at least, the jewel in their crown) in search of short-term profit. Many people who play ESO have played The Elder Scrolls since Oblivion, Morrowind or before. You really do not want to upset them. In my opinion.

However, it is Bethesda's IP and the buck starts and stops with them. I would imagine they at least have oversight over all of this, if not an active participation in pushing micro-transactions onto the community at every possible opportunity.

We can all speculate and argue over what is right and wrong, but that this discussion is even happening (and so frequently) should be, in my opinion, a red flag. Damage the customer's perception of the IP, and the whole company takes a hit.

Perception is reality, maybe they should pay more attention.

I stopped ready about midway during the first paragraph; the statements posted are pure opinion. First, to be clear, a game such as an MMO, any MMO, must have a solid stream of revenue; in-game purchases are a valid option. Yes there are people with problems who will spend too much but this line of thought doesn't really have any definitions; for example in the last few years I have moved from playing traditional off the shelf games, to MMOs. The result being I play fewer games, but the games I play, I play longer. I still spend about the same amount financially; this includes purchases on subscriptions, and in-game purchases. I could save some money by not purchasing in-game items like premium tanks in WoT, Cartel Packs in SWToR, and cosmetic items in ESO; all of which are optional. If you do not want to buy, do not buy; do not lecture the rest of us though. But it is presumption that by buying Crown Crates there is some inherent problem. If you know someone with a problem; help them (and if you do it won't be on a forum, it will be in person).

zzz wrote: »

I am a little confused over the direction ESO has been going in.

The Elder Scrolls is a massive IP and Zenimax are custodians of it. While people will have varying perceptions over their management of it, my own is that they are sailing very close to the wind in a way that has potential to affect sales of other titles in the IP. Personally, I think they are gambling with Bethesda's raisin d'etre (or, at least, the jewel in their crown) in search of short-term profit. Many people who play ESO have played The Elder Scrolls since Oblivion, Morrowind or before. You really do not want to upset them. In my opinion.

However, it is Bethesda's IP and the buck starts and stops with them. I would imagine they at least have oversight over all of this, if not an active participation in pushing micro-transactions onto the community at every possible opportunity.

We can all speculate and argue over what is right and wrong, but that this discussion is even happening (and so frequently) should be, in my opinion, a red flag. Damage the customer's perception of the IP, and the whole company takes a hit.

Well, I have no idea what they think of gambling with dried grapes, but I do know that Bethesda is not afraid to "innovate" when it comes to leveraging their Elder Scrolls brand for revenue. They are the ones that decided to allow Modders to sell Skyrim mods, with a hefty cut for Bethesda. To this end, I do not think they are afraid to capitalize on the brand success in a way that might be seen as negative by players.

More than that, though, I think they want to make sure that the brand's products do not fail in a big ball of bright flames. They have two new entries into the Elder Scrolls world that they have to manage. ESO is the first, but Elder Scrolls Legends is also out there. While I doubt they will sacrifice the brand, or go into bankruptcy, to keep them afloat, I am also certain that they absolutely do not want any of them to fail. They don't want future products to be measured against the failure of another. This means that if they have to do Crown Crates, they have to do Crown Crates.

Bethesda is "experimenting" with how to market their online games. They are already well into loot crates across at least three other products that I know of. They are apparently wildly successful in Fallout Shelter. The entire success of Legends and BattleCry will undoubtedly depend upon them. It is only natural that they would apply this to ESO. When a hammer is your new favorite toy, everything looks like a nail.

As much as I hate Crown Crates, too many people are willing to throw good money after bad and buy them. I can't imagine that they will fail for ESO, and I cannot imagine that this first season is a "trial run" that will end with them being removed if they don't like them. If the Skyrim mods are any indication, Bethesda does not easily admit they were wrong. I am sure they feel that Crown Crates are not only the right thing to do, but they are just the beginning of many more right things yet to be done.

Phinix1 wrote: »

That would seem to be the assumption under which such businesses would be operating, but I don't believe it's necessarily true. History will testify that taking shortcuts and relying on unethical tactics in the short term more often than not leads to greater losses over time, to reputation first and eventually to profits.

Thank you for your detailed answer, which I read carefully. You're undoubtedly an optimistic person, and I wish I could share your views without being completely delusional, but unfortunately, I can't.

You say that "history WILL testify"... I look at what history HAS already testified. That's FACT. Maybe in the future there will be some sort of revolution around the notion of profit, and of ethics as a beneficial production factor, but until then, and especially right now, we live in the world of McDonald's and Monsanto.

Some branches, niches and smaller companies MAY choose the path of ethics successfully, but don't expect that from an industry that relies so heavily on external investment - such as videogames. In fact, I even consider ZOS to remain quite "clean" as compared to the general current industry standards.

pattyLtd wrote: »

I admit i haven't read all the replies so this might have been said before but trying to make profit is not dishonest or a scam.

I would personally prefer the old system of mounts etc just being purchaseable without the rng factor added into them but if it makes them more money then i am ok with that because i love ESO and i hope it will be around and kept alive for a while longer and if theres one sure thing to close the servers down asap it would be if they don't get any revenue out of it anymore.

All that would assume they put some of that money back into the game. I really hope they fix the problems instead of steamrolling new more broken content. The potential is still there, I really don't care if we don't get another holiday festivel, I would sacrifice those in favor of fixing current issues. The lag is terrible, pvp is a mess, crafting is in the gutter and constant crashes. Just a few examples of things that need to be addressed.

I really hope they listen to us, of course that would require us to be civil about discussing topics and not just throwing out rants and insults.

Im sorry but you are incredibly naive.

pattyLtd wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

I admit i haven't read all the replies so this might have been said before but trying to make profit is not dishonest or a scam.

I would personally prefer the old system of mounts etc just being purchaseable without the rng factor added into them but if it makes them more money then i am ok with that because i love ESO and i hope it will be around and kept alive for a while longer and if theres one sure thing to close the servers down asap it would be if they don't get any revenue out of it anymore.

All that would assume they put some of that money back into the game. I really hope they fix the problems instead of steamrolling new more broken content. The potential is still there, I really don't care if we don't get another holiday festivel, I would sacrifice those in favor of fixing current issues. The lag is terrible, pvp is a mess, crafting is in the gutter and constant crashes. Just a few examples of things that need to be addressed.

I really hope they listen to us, of course that would require us to be civil about discussing topics and not just throwing out rants and insults.

I totally agree with you but maybe its against better judgement but i still have faith xD

Mine as well, but I can still hold out hope, for a while anyway.

Phinix1 wrote: »

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

It's cute how people basically try to dress up "I want more game for less money" as some sort of "dishonesty" on the company's part, and their concern over it as some sort of social justice issue, as if difficulty affording video games were anything other than a first-world problem. Go to another game.

Point totally missed.

I suggest if the thread is TL:DR then don't bother blindly posting what you THINK it is about.

No one was complaining about wanting to pay less for content. A lot of people were upset by the ramrodding of GAMBLING BOXES into the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Enticing gambling addicts to blow their entire paycheck for an item they still might not get is sleazy.

If you're a known gambling addict and you probably can't control yourself, then maybe stay away from games and other situations that have gambling functions? (I'm not even a supporter of these gambling boxes by the way, but I'm just tired of hearing the same excuse every time)

is it really the games fault? for some reason A LOTof people will *** about parsing out any money for content but will be happy to spend hundreds of $$$ on random *** in the crown store that does nothing but be aesthetic. I think the reality is that the model works because people spend the money; there would be no crown store if nobody bought aesthetic bells and whistles.

The, if you don't like it, leave, response is weak because people invest so much time in these games they can't easily abandon them.

More pertinent is the question, if you knew then what you know now, would you have started playing ESO?

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

It's cute how people basically try to dress up "I want more game for less money" as some sort of "dishonesty" on the company's part, and their concern over it as some sort of social justice issue, as if difficulty affording video games were anything other than a first-world problem. Go to another game.

I'm happy to pay for more game. Not prepared to gamble for virtual fluff though. In case you're confused, zos is offering more of the latter than the former.