Vet Maelstrom Arena Needs a Hard Mode

Merlin13KAGL · December 2016

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

No more rng. Beating an rng dungeon is not skill, it's luck like winning the lottery. Vma has enough deaths caused by rng, it doesn't need more.

KingYogi415 · December 2016

It's funny to me how some people think adding an extra mode would take anything away from them.

I made this thread as a brainstorm for hard mode ideas, and propose it as a way to cure the RNG disease that is VMA. We have had some good ones.

This way people can earn a vma weapon through skill, not a 1/368th chance.

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It's funny to me how some people think adding an extra mode would take anything away from them.

I made this thread as a brainstorm for hard mode ideas, and propose it as a way to cure the RNG disease that is VMA. We have had some good ones.

This way people can earn a vma weapon through skill, not a 1/368th chance.

Maybe give every flawless run a choice of weapon with the trait you want.

code65536 · December 2016

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

Pallio · December 2016

Would be interesting to see how many accts have completed vma. Statistically I would guess 10% have completed on at least 1 character, probably like 1% achieve flawless.. It is frustrating and time consuming to figure it out, let alone very expensive in deaths and pots etc. So what do you do when 1% of the population is bored with something 90% have not completed?

They already rewarded the trail blazers who cleared it first, before all the traits were added ruining the rng, so the most elite of the 1% already got all the traits/gear they wanted. Where do we go from here?

kyle.wilson · December 2016

Better yet. maybe every 3 months they should completely change VMA. The NPC that gives the quest says it changes.
New Mechanics and different stages. That would freshen it up more than just another "hard mode" All hard modes seem to do is accelerate the power creep already seen in the game.

When you have a game that is supposed to be pve and pvp; power creep for pve invariably damages the pvp side.
After the soft cap were dropped 20k dps was good. Now its just meh. People are now sustaining >50k dps in trials.

Juhasow · December 2016

Vet Maelstorm Arena with hard mode ? As long as it includes higher chance to get sharpened/precise weapons or tokens that allows to get it I am in. There could be token for completing it flawless.

Merlin13KAGL · December 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

No more rng. Beating an rng dungeon is not skill, it's luck like winning the lottery. Vma has enough deaths caused by rng, it doesn't need more.

I would argue that it requires even more skill, again, because it cannot be memorized. It would require you to react and respond situationally. As an example, it's one of the (if not the ) key difference between fighting an NPC vs fighting PvP/duels, which is why it's always more difficult to fight a real person - the random factor.

Sadly, set spawned levels are easier to code, so I suspect you have nothing to worry about.

SickDuck · December 2016

ToDo list for ZOS:

1. Sort out RNG issues
2. Make a progressive difficulty system, not just the current carebear vs. annoying split

Can see both as high prio issues in the game (not just vMA) altough not necessary related. But if you want to solve the RNG problems of vMA by raising difficulty then nerf the current version's difficulty slightly.

Paneross · December 2016

We don't need Elitists becoming more Elite.

Danksta · December 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

It's definitely not a guaranteed wipe.

Junipus · December 2016

Tokens

Parafrost · December 2016

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Make a new character, use no champion points, make said character a hybrid build.

Seems hard enough.

This is kinda a kick to the face for me. I struggle with this place and you make it seem like it's nothing but I'm guessing you've spent a lot of time there. I found only frustration and disappointment

After your 5th or 6th run, you'll be running maelstrom in 1 hour. You will progressively get to sub 40 mins. I'm near there already. The best course of action when doing vma is to not get flustered. When I get flustered, i make stupid mistakes and get killed by a archer.

penek · December 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Vet Maelstrom is amazing end-game content. The time, persistence and dedication it takes to be able to beat it is astronomical compered any other single player content I have ever seen.

The first 10-20 are a rush of what weapon am I going to get, has all this hard work paid off?

After 40 runs you start to remember the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

sorry, but with hardmodes it will be all same, just 10 more runs and it will be same boring play

Paneross · December 2016

What's next a SUPER DUPER HARD MODE?

Patouf · December 2016

"Vet Maelstrom is amazing end-game content."

First sentence... quite wrong : loot and reward crap, solo content for mmo, very frustating, take too many times until you can farm it.

HM would be nice but lot of people will never access to the vMA sucess, so maybe vMA is not fair with all community?

Rowjoh · December 2016

In my humble opinion vMA needs to be made less of a painfully horrendous time-sink and more accessible but with a ‘hardmode’ or ‘hardmodes on bosses’ for hardcore enthusiasts. The drops could then be brought up to date and made to reflect the achievement with much fairer chances of getting them.

I've tried it and find the learning curve too steep and time consuming and not worth the pain of persevering to completion then grinding for a weapon combo I may have to slog for months on end to get.

I take my hat off to the minority who have completed vMA and appreciate that there are a few who enjoy it, but I have no interest in vMA in it's current form anyway as the difference the weapons would make to my builds is now not enough to make me even consider going through vMA's ridiculous hoops.

ESO needs challenging end game content but I feel vMA is too off-putting for too many players and with the new Tamriel One gear and monster sets, addition of jewellery to old sets plus new gear coming in the next major update there's ever more interesting and powerful combinations which are viable alternatives to running vMA weapons.

Paneross · December 2016

And after Super Duper Hard Mode they will release Insane Ultra HD Remix Turbo Veteran Maelstrom Arena Deluxe Edition.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

Vet Maelstrom Arena Needs a Hard Mode Better Loot System.

That said, I dont hate the suggestion. If they buffed it by 10-20% and gave guaranteed specific loot, you would not hear a complaint from. Personally, I think a Flawless Title should offer you one item of your choosing. So if you needed three items, roll 3 toons and get flawless. It would be very challenging, but much better than the current system.

I finally got my Sharp Inferno, so admittedly, I am not as passionate about this as I was, but I still wouldn't mind a Sharp Bow or a second Sharp Dagger (still dont have 2H Sharp Mace or Ice Staff, but don't really care). Anything to speed that up at this point is fine with me.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

No more rng. Beating an rng dungeon is not skill, it's luck like winning the lottery. Vma has enough deaths caused by rng, it doesn't need more.

That is just not a true statement. The only real RNG in the Arena is Round 7, and even that can be heavily mitigated by carefully choosing what add you kill during the boss fight. If one is standing next to a poison mushroom and one isnt, well choose wisely. I havent died to that mechanic in MANY many runs.

Now, if you are calling lag RNG, then I suppose you have something there. But otherwise, people complaining about that much RNG are missing mechanics.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It's funny to me how some people think adding an extra mode would take anything away from them.

I made this thread as a brainstorm for hard mode ideas, and propose it as a way to cure the RNG disease that is VMA. We have had some good ones.

This way people can earn a vma weapon through skill, not a 1/368th chance.

Maybe give every flawless run a choice of weapon with the trait you want.

I agree with you on that one.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

Never seen that happen 3 times in a row. The pushback is that if you are actually letting a third ghost spawn on the final phase, you have a DPS problem.

peatzaugh · December 2016

vMA HM: Do it in first person while RP walking.

Paneross · December 2016

peatzaugh wrote: »

vMA HM: Do it in first person while RP walking.

VMA Hard Mode: Play one handed while laying upside down on your couch.

AdicusDio · December 2016

Just implement a reward system like WGT has. Each round gives X amount of stones or whatever, and after you have 60, 100, etc., you can trade those in for a weapon you'll use.

Give Vet more stone for each round completion and give normal less. Can even retrofit one of the spires outside the building with the merchant with a room to trade the keys at.

In all honesty, we shouldn't have to do the vet maelstrom 100+ times for a damned bow in a preferable trait. That's purely sadistic.

Aletheion · December 2016

AdicusDio wrote: »

Just implement a reward system like WGT has. Each round gives X amount of stones or whatever, and after you have 60, 100, etc., you can trade those in for a weapon you'll use.

Give Vet more stone for each round completion and give normal less. Can even retrofit one of the spires outside the building with the merchant with a room to trade the keys at.

In all honesty, we shouldn't have to do the vet maelstrom 100+ times for a damned bow in a preferable trait. That's purely sadistic.

Some form of token system is definitely what it needs. I'm surprised they haven't done this yet with all of the complaints and the hundreds of thousands of hours put in by players across the board (accumulatively, I mean) who still don't have a decent weapon to show for it.

-Aletheion

peatzaugh · December 2016

Paneross wrote: »

peatzaugh wrote: »

vMA HM: Do it in first person while RP walking.

VMA Hard Mode: Play one handed while laying upside down on your couch.

Wait, you're supposed to use 2 hands?

KingYogi415 · December 2016

Guys completing the hard mode challange would let you pick any weapon sharpened.

The point is to complete an amazing feat, and actually be rewarded for your work.

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

Danksta wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

It's definitely not a guaranteed wipe.

If you take healing and defense sigil then spam healing spells you have a chance. But you normally don't have the time to grab both sigils

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

No more rng. Beating an rng dungeon is not skill, it's luck like winning the lottery. Vma has enough deaths caused by rng, it doesn't need more.

That is just not a true statement. The only real RNG in the Arena is Round 7, and even that can be heavily mitigated by carefully choosing what add you kill during the boss fight. If one is standing next to a poison mushroom and one isnt, well choose wisely. I havent died to that mechanic in MANY many runs.

Now, if you are calling lag RNG, then I suppose you have something there. But otherwise, people complaining about that much RNG are missing mechanics.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It's funny to me how some people think adding an extra mode would take anything away from them.

I made this thread as a brainstorm for hard mode ideas, and propose it as a way to cure the RNG disease that is VMA. We have had some good ones.

This way people can earn a vma weapon through skill, not a 1/368th chance.

Maybe give every flawless run a choice of weapon with the trait you want.

I agree with you on that one.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

Never seen that happen 3 times in a row. The pushback is that if you are actually letting a third ghost spawn on the final phase, you have a DPS problem.

Well when the poison spawns after the minder puts his shield around you and explodes immediately, that's pure rng. Happened to me a few days ago, spoiling another potential flawless run.

In order to kill voriak before the third ghost and hence first spectral explosion, that's some ungodly dps, like over 4k spell/weapon damage and over 70% crit. It's not really required to have THAT much, but if course that dps makes it easier.