Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I never agreed that a Twilight couldn't outheal BoL. I merely stated that I have never seen it happen (Never seen a 50k BoL either, yet I am suppose to believe it is possible.) .

*drops mic*

Templar master class for healer. Sorry.

Picks up mic and asks you to show me where in this game do you need a 50k breath? For the record, I hit a 46k healing ward on a tank once, while the tank only had like 35k health on my sorc with only 10% into blessed and my dps gear on.


Now try what ever you used to get that breath with lingering ritual, you would get 70kish easy but does it matter? No heals like over heals I geuss.

Everything that can be said, has been said in this thread, both sides have laid out well thought out arguments and discussion topics. I really enjoyed reading it. But as I have said, the only real things temps bring to the table are shards and repentance. Full stop. Even those can be made up for in a fashion in all but the most extreme cases, IE end game vet trials. Something 95% of the people that play this game will not be doing.

I wanted to thank @Shaiba especially, you have a great way of looking at things and can explain yourself well, I hope I get a chance to play with you one day.

Oh lighten up, would you. The person who posted said they were "supposed to believe it was possible", so I posted three screencaps that showed it's not only possible, but you can get higher numbers.

But, overall, a sorcerer healer is not going to bring to the table what a Templar healer can, and that's just the pure truth.

Cheers!

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I never agreed that a Twilight couldn't outheal BoL. I merely stated that I have never seen it happen (Never seen a 50k BoL either, yet I am suppose to believe it is possible.) .

*drops mic*

Templar master class for healer. Sorry.

I'm not familiar with parce meters, like at all, so this confuses me more than informs me of anything XD.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I never agreed that a Twilight couldn't outheal BoL. I merely stated that I have never seen it happen (Never seen a 50k BoL either, yet I am suppose to believe it is possible.) .

*drops mic*

Templar master class for healer. Sorry.

Picks up mic and asks you to show me where in this game do you need a 50k breath? For the record, I hit a 46k healing ward on a tank once, while the tank only had like 35k health on my sorc with only 10% into blessed and my dps gear on.


Now try what ever you used to get that breath with lingering ritual, you would get 70kish easy but does it matter? No heals like over heals I geuss.

Well, in PvP, my Templar runs around with near 50K health and with Battlespirit reduction in place, I'd actually want B to push her heals even higher.

Oh, your 46K healing ward reduces my resistances to Zero.

Only the shield has zero resists, after taking into consideration your cp. After the shield is gone, your resits reduce the damage that is left. See here on how that works - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-a-third-time/p1

Again for the record, that heal of 45k that I posted is from the ward after the six seconds the shield expired. As in the tank probably had a 30kish shield on him and then the ward expired after six seconds and then the heal from that crit. Healing ward is really great like that, you get a huge ward for six seconds, that takes the damage for you while hots tick but if there is any ward left, it heals you for that amount and that heal can crit. Arguably better then breath, as it has 2 stages of healing(ish).

And PvP healing is different, I am a PvE healer and only know the basics of PvP healing. I Also know that shields can't be crit and they can't be penetrated. So that lowers the damage that players can do against them.

I know how shields work. Of course they can't be penetrated. Because there is nothing to penetrate.

You asked when I would need a 50K breath and tried to downplay it as if it was overhealing. I gave you a legit answer.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

It really comes down to whether or not you think temps are the only way to go for healers or not. I think the answer is no and that is something that is great about this game, you can do all roles well on all the classes if you have a good build.

People keep saying this, but have yet to shown any evidence of any other classes healing as efficient as Templars do. For the record one of them is my video. I would really like to see a Sorcerer be viable, and if someone actually proves it, I'll say I was wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW1RnwdT1Rc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCk31p4ubZc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6BHtJ79d6k

Um... TBH I healed both on templar and sorc aaand... I find that sorc was a better experience for me. Here is why:
1. Twilight heals 2 targets for full amount, not like BoL 1/0,5.
2. Shields. Sorc with his sustain can sit on 40-50k shields whole fight while healing what means that most of the time your hp is over 90%, so you dont steal heals from your team mates and this means that you can in one cast heal 2/3 of your team instead of 3/8 (0,67 vs 0,38) its almost 2x more efective heal per cast so major mending isnt needed.
3. Pets. I run with both pets as a healer. Why? When whole group wipes my pets most of the time take agro instead of me, especialy melee one so I have some windows to res someone.
4. I run sentinel of ra... eee makarena set. It also restores some stamina to folks.standing in its range.
5. On my tank I dont need healer, I dont need any external resources buffs, I can tank and kill most of the bosses on my own (except the ones that require group mates to do something to free me etc.) and I know Im not the only one there, so shards are useless for me, I never use it anyway (but know that there is many tanks that use it).

In general imho, templar - good healer and better buff tool for group vs sorc - better healer, good at giving buffs. But its just my opinion.

Mag NB tank here, I find shards and bubbles just annoying, as I don't run out of resources (Siphoning Attacks ftw), and all dem lights in my face just give me a seizure. If my stam is drained, like, at 0, a heavy attack with Siphon active, and I'm back to half, some light attack weaving and I'm back to full. Block+piercing armor+guard are less than what I regen with a light attack, so, I could even probably spam low slash despite being a magblade. If a boss has a drain mechanic, easy, Siphon before your magicka is drained, boom, back to full stam in no time, or magpot+siphon after the drain, whatever floats your boat.

Also, swallow soul spam+bahraha+refreshing path = no need for healer, like, none, at all, even if I take a potential 2shots in the face (dem uppercuts that sometimes make you drop your block for no reason while you press your left mouse button so hard it breaks) I can get back up pretty fast. My usual team mates for vets have some sort of self heal, and I can drop a quick siphon on the boss for some extra ticks for them, on top of taunting with piercing armor (not inner fire). If someone is squishier I can just guard him/her for some extra mitigation, instead of buffing the hard hitters.

So, every time we pugroulette for vet randoms (we have to, cause, otherwise, we would 3men), and we get a temp healer, I'm usually in guild chat saying "MAN, THE HEALS! THE HEALS ARE OUT OF CONTROL!!1!one" or something like that xD.

That said, the templar is the only class with a dedicated class tree for healing (like, only healing), so, overheal or not, the answer will always be "No, a temp can always heal better". Do you need it ? sure, in vet trials or pvp.

Is Sorc healing it viable for vet donjons HM ? Yeah, it is. As long as your teammates are alive, and your permablock tank with 60k HP doesn't get killed, whatever. Group optimization goes a long way, I'm not saying "tell the other what to do", but knowing who are you running with helps a lot. Incidentally, our dedicated healer is a sorc, but, then again, we need very little healing, he's mostly healing himself...

Is it viable for vet trials ? maybe, sure, why not, probably. Most likely not for speedruns, unless you have some crazy theorycrafter with a specialized build, made for that specific content, with a mind to prove a point.

Would a temp healer be easier to play for vet trials/makes your life easier ? yes, definitely.

Do you need group optimization before vet trials hm ? Lol, yeah... people saying they don't, also don't mind about scores, how many wipes you need to kill, and they usually have 2 or 3 ppl specifically for ressing folks, so... any intelligent person would try to optimize the team before any endgame content (I wouldn't call vet dungeons endgame, more like, late midgame, almost endgame but not really there yet).

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

As for the videos, I don't understand what can't be done by a sorcerer or any other class in those.

Then post a video of sorc healer doing this.

Works in dungeons for helping out lower cp players. Just cancel springs and healing ward 1848 times.

Templars for real healing tho

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Is Sorc healing it viable for vet donjons HM ? Yeah, it is. As long as your teammates are alive, and your permablock tank with 60k HP doesn't get killed, whatever. Group optimization goes a long way, I'm not saying "tell the other what to do", but knowing who are you running with helps a lot. Incidentally, our dedicated healer is a sorc, but, then again, we need very little healing, he's mostly healing himself...

That's false. A sorc healer doesn't need OP teammates to do HM vet dungeons. I have been doing HM vet dungeons with randoms, haven't seen any problem so far. My heal hits 2.5 million HPS when things get intense, so of course my teammates will die if I don't heal. As long as people don't get one-shot, they live. I'm only CP200 using a mix of blue and purple gear, an experienced sorc healer will even do far better than me.

smh.

I posted before but I'd like to say the only thing a wizard can't do that a templar can is provide stamina, So most magica users like me do not depend on templars and I can depend on either myself or any other healer who's a resto user with sufficient magic.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Is Sorc healing it viable for vet donjons HM ? Yeah, it is. As long as your teammates are alive, and your permablock tank with 60k HP doesn't get killed, whatever. Group optimization goes a long way, I'm not saying "tell the other what to do", but knowing who are you running with helps a lot. Incidentally, our dedicated healer is a sorc, but, then again, we need very little healing, he's mostly healing himself...

That's false. A sorc healer doesn't need OP teammates to do HM vet dungeons. I have been doing HM vet dungeons with randoms, haven't seen any problem so far. My heal hits 2.5 million HPS when things get intense, so of course my teammates will die if I don't heal. As long as people don't get one-shot, they live. I'm only CP200 using a mix of blue and purple gear, an experienced sorc healer will even do far better than me.

smh.

Either that, or combat metric was bugged out. I will try to replicate.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

If you know how shields work then, could you explain why it matters that they have no resistance?

So wards can't be crit, there is a ton less damage, resists or no. Then there is the fact pen doesn't matter with sets like spriggan and I think spinners, those people are not getting as much damage on you as someone that would have higher weapon or spell damage over the extra spell pen, which means nothing to a ward.

I am genuinely curious.

I also am on the record that any tank that has more then 30k is a waste. But you sound like a blazing shield "tank". So like I said I am not as versed in PvP healing and thankfully only had a couple of blazing tanks in PvE.

And you didn't acknowledge that that 45k heal was just that, a heal, not a ward. So it would of been a 30k ward, with a heal of 45k heal at the end of it.

If I have 27K resistance on my Templar and you put a damage shield on me, that resistance is not calculated when I take damage. If your tank spent time and resources building up their resistances, and there is a very good chance she did that, your shields are basically making that moot. So in PVE, a damage shield is just about always worse than an actual heal since bosses don't crit or use spriggan's gear (though in Maw trial, the tank's resistance can get completely stripped, a mechanic that illustrates the dangers of losing all armor that tanks bring!)

In PvP it is true a shield cannot be crit, but at the end of the day, a person with a damage shield might as well be naked because that 27K resistance isn't mitigating incoming damage. It's why sorcerers are pretty much the only class still going light armor even though heavy is better in every way because heavy armor is pretty much pointless with damage shields.

PvP healing is part of healing! What good is having healers only able to effectively do part of ESO's content? What about those people who like to play both?

I would have preferred your ward to be 45K btw. Because now I'm getting a 15K smaller shield, which, again, does not mitigate incoming damage.

@DisgracefulMind is right. People keep pointing out that sorcerer can heal which is not something people are denying. I play a sorcerer healer. I know they can. But in competitive environments - and it doesn't matter if that is just PvP guilds or 1% of PvE content - templars can do the job more efficiently and effectively. As long as this is the case threads like this will continue to come up, the leaderboards will still be dominated by templars, and healers who desire to play competitive content will feel pressure to roll an templar alt for healing and spec their sorcerer for DPS.