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Do not buy Crown Crates!!!
-
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
Edit: And let me come back to comment on your first line about "providing value to the customer". The customer out of his/her own free will decide whether or not there is value in the crown crates when they decide to make the purchase. ZOS didn't force any value upon you, me, or anyone else.Edited by Publius_Scipio on December 1, 2016 10:50PM8 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Why aren't you guys yelling at Neverwinter, Vegas, Black Hawk, The lotto or any other thing that has these exact things?
It's simple, you have poor chances, but everyone already knows that.
My friend keeps telling me, "it's the internet, complaining is what it does."
Edit: I just thought of this, and I think it rather clever, "An addict is someone that is unable to turn their habit into a profession."
whoa whoa whoa.
Hold on.
NEVERWINTER is P2W like really pay to win.
You can't compete at all with the people that spend real money.
This is nothing even close to what they have in neverwinter.
Ohhh give it time. ZOS has been on a reliably downwards trajectory for two years now, why would they stop here?Allow cross-platform transfers and merges2 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
Your right, the lottery tells you the odds. What are the odds of an apex mount?1 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have to chime in here as well. I don't understand why you guys are complaining about having to buy a bunch of these crates for a RARE item. the word rare means it is unlikely you'll run into someone with this item. if everyone could buy it, then it wouldn't be rare. Let it be what it is, something special if you get lucky. The crates should really be purchased for the items you know your going to get in the crate. stop buying them for something you might get if your lucky and complaining that you didn't get one.
-Cheers
I dunno about "Rare"
I myself was running around on my strom atro mount and I legit saw at least 20 people with one also.
Granted I have no idea how much money they spent to rare could be accurate however I myself and others like me ended up spending $50-$100 and got the mount.
However we were also the "WHALES" LOL... that bought 30k crowns during the sale due to knowing what the PTS crown crates were like I'm telling you now... it's a million times better than what it was hands down.
I've told you 100 billion times not to exaggerate!"Get off my lawn!"1 -
ThePaleItalian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please note I am against the crate. But I know each player to their own... but here is my thought on one thing I constantly see on forum posts...
People knew what they were getting for months now, so its on them. The only thing I do not like is people freaking out about a gambling addiction.... no offence but should be close bars because of drunks? Or close fast food places and ban forks because of overweight folks??
Sometimes people need to be the ones to accept the blame themselves, not the means to fuel what they cannot control...
/end rant
Good luck with your crates!!Conan, what is good in life?
Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.
PS4 Screen Name: The_Pale_Italian
ZweiHandler - Orc DK Tank
Solstice StormHaven - Magika Sorc
Oba Nobanaga - Stam NB5 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭its good they have something to make monye- but i just wish they d provide something better than this...where is the vision? while pvp languishes- we have this!??!
this is what they spend their time on? costumes and crappy potions? this game is going to die in the arse- and they think its because of lack of revenue- so they do this- when its because of lack of love to the aspects that need it.
look how many games out there are free these days. I'm saying this as I'm being locked out of cyrodil after the game crashed when i entered a 20 vs 20 battle. unacceptable man. it really is.
it s like the time i blocked the toilet and it broke, i had to call the plumber- cost a fortune all because i tried to flush a cardboard roll. i bought takeaway for the missus to make it up to her.
u can try and distract all u want- but the lingering leaking *** stain out of the bathroom while u eat isn't going away. thats what this situation is.1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
Your right, the lottery tells you the odds. What are the odds of an apex mount?
I don't know Jim, and I don't care. Why don't you ask ZOS?3 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
You are correct in that the lottery is not a scam because you do in fact know how the lottery works: the odds are known by all participants up front.
If ZOS did the same thing then I would agree with you. However, they have chosen to keep the actual rules of the game secret and can change them whenever they like without telling any of the other players. That's a scam.Edited by wayfarerx on December 1, 2016 10:54PM@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion6 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
If you don't want anything then don't buy anything, such a strawman.
I happen to have a use for poisons, potions and collecting pets is not such a bad thing so there was really nothing I didn't want in any of the the crates I bought. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
But that is how I feel and of course you have a right to feel anyway you want just don't expect me to feel as you do.
Sorry to bring reason to extremist views.
Honey you don't even know what a strawman argument is. Also, you aren't buying things, you are risking money on the prospect of getting things. At least get your definitions right.
It's fine that you happened to get things you wanted, but that doesn't make it a good deal for every consumer. A good deal is being able to actually directly purchase things you want for a set price. That's not an extremist view, that's a basic tenet of a market economy. Sorry to bring reason to your ignorance.
I know exactly what I am purchasing, a chance to get something with useless crowns I get every month that accumulate with no use for. I did not spend one dollar over what I pay for my monthly subscription anyway.
I feel sorry for the few who can not control their impulses and over buy such items, but some of us can enjoy a beer or a glass of wine without drinking the whole case.
I worked over 30 years owning my own company so I can retire and do what I want, and thank goodness I can.
Now if we could only convert AP to Gems!
Man, if only there were some other way to spend all those crowns that keep accumulating... like, idk direct purchases of the same damn thing in the gambling boxes.
You keep glossing over the fact that I spent only 1600 crowns got an Apex mount and many other things.
Fact is these mounts are not available for direct purchase at this time.
I can only go by my own experience with the issue. You know there was this same resistance to the Crown store in the first place and we survived.
In the end I will still probably only ride my striped senche tiger anyway. lol
I am going to end this back and forth with you and just agree to disagree.1 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
Your right, the lottery tells you the odds. What are the odds of an apex mount?
I don't know Jim, and I don't care. Why don't you ask ZOS?
I have many times. Many people have. They are not telling. That comes off as dishonest.3 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
If you don't want anything then don't buy anything, such a strawman.
I happen to have a use for poisons, potions and collecting pets is not such a bad thing so there was really nothing I didn't want in any of the the crates I bought. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
But that is how I feel and of course you have a right to feel anyway you want just don't expect me to feel as you do.
Sorry to bring reason to extremist views.
Honey you don't even know what a strawman argument is. Also, you aren't buying things, you are risking money on the prospect of getting things. At least get your definitions right.
It's fine that you happened to get things you wanted, but that doesn't make it a good deal for every consumer. A good deal is being able to actually directly purchase things you want for a set price. That's not an extremist view, that's a basic tenet of a market economy. Sorry to bring reason to your ignorance.
I know exactly what I am purchasing, a chance to get something with useless crowns I get every month that accumulate with no use for. I did not spend one dollar over what I pay for my monthly subscription anyway.
I feel sorry for the few who can not control their impulses and over buy such items, but some of us can enjoy a beer or a glass of wine without drinking the whole case.
I worked over 30 years owning my own company so I can retire and do what I want, and thank goodness I can.
Now if we could only convert AP to Gems!
Man, if only there were some other way to spend all those crowns that keep accumulating... like, idk direct purchases of the same damn thing in the gambling boxes.
You keep glossing over the fact that I spent only 1600 crowns got an Apex mount and many other things.
Fact is these mounts are not available for direct purchase at this time.
I can only go by my own experience with the issue. You know there was this same resistance to the Crown store in the first place and we survived.
In the end I will still probably only ride my striped senche tiger anyway. lol
I am going to end this back and forth with you and just agree to disagree.
Your results are not typical. Deltia spent $100 and didn't even have enough gems for an apex mount. He said disappointment is an understatement.3 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That's asinine. I have no intention of buying any crates, but I've played this game for 3 years, spent tons of money on it and made a lot of good friends here. Saying I have no investment in the future of the game is demonstrably wrong. If these crates suck up resources that would otherwise be spent onSince other people are buying them the ones who are not don't get to complain?
No but their message will carry a notable bias. It creates this feeling that for every genuine concern for the product, there's a score more who are just angry they gambled and lost.Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
You are correct in that the lottery is not a scam because you do in fact know how the lottery works: the odds are known by all participants up front.
If ZOS did the same thing then I would agree with you. However, they have chosen to keep the actual rules of the game secret and can change them whenever they like without telling any of the other players. That's a scam.[/quote]
So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.0 -
Mx13✭✭✭ThePaleItalian wrote: »Please note I am against the crate. But I know each player to their own... but here is my thought on one thing I constantly see on forum posts...
People knew what they were getting for months now, so its on them. The only thing I do not like is people freaking out about a gambling addiction.... no offence but should be close bars because of drunks? Or close fast food places and ban forks because of overweight folks??
Sometimes people need to be the ones to accept the blame themselves, not the means to fuel what they cannot control...
/end rant
Good luck with your crates!!
[Insert "Aliens" meme here]
White knights0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
Your right, the lottery tells you the odds. What are the odds of an apex mount?
I don't know Jim, and I don't care. Why don't you ask ZOS?
I have many times. Many people have. They are not telling. That comes off as dishonest.
That's because you define that as dishonest. YOU! ZOS has a right (legally) not to explain anything it doesn't have to or doesn't want to.
Dishonesty is the tag you are placing on ZOS.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
If you don't want anything then don't buy anything, such a strawman.
I happen to have a use for poisons, potions and collecting pets is not such a bad thing so there was really nothing I didn't want in any of the the crates I bought. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
But that is how I feel and of course you have a right to feel anyway you want just don't expect me to feel as you do.
Sorry to bring reason to extremist views.
Honey you don't even know what a strawman argument is. Also, you aren't buying things, you are risking money on the prospect of getting things. At least get your definitions right.
It's fine that you happened to get things you wanted, but that doesn't make it a good deal for every consumer. A good deal is being able to actually directly purchase things you want for a set price. That's not an extremist view, that's a basic tenet of a market economy. Sorry to bring reason to your ignorance.
I know exactly what I am purchasing, a chance to get something with useless crowns I get every month that accumulate with no use for. I did not spend one dollar over what I pay for my monthly subscription anyway.
I feel sorry for the few who can not control their impulses and over buy such items, but some of us can enjoy a beer or a glass of wine without drinking the whole case.
I worked over 30 years owning my own company so I can retire and do what I want, and thank goodness I can.
Now if we could only convert AP to Gems!
Man, if only there were some other way to spend all those crowns that keep accumulating... like, idk direct purchases of the same damn thing in the gambling boxes.
You keep glossing over the fact that I spent only 1600 crowns got an Apex mount and many other things.
Fact is these mounts are not available for direct purchase at this time.
I can only go by my own experience with the issue. You know there was this same resistance to the Crown store in the first place and we survived.
In the end I will still probably only ride my striped senche tiger anyway. lol
I am going to end this back and forth with you and just agree to disagree.
Your results are not typical. Deltia spent $100 and didn't even have enough gems for an apex mount. He said disappointment is an understatement.
Who cares about Deltia? He puts his pants on the same way as everyone else. (I hope)
Maybe he should have spent less and not all at once in one shot like I did.
I see many Apex mounts running around the map as we speak.Edited by TequilaFire on December 1, 2016 11:02PM3 -
ThePaleItalian✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePaleItalian wrote: »Please note I am against the crate. But I know each player to their own... but here is my thought on one thing I constantly see on forum posts...
People knew what they were getting for months now, so its on them. The only thing I do not like is people freaking out about a gambling addiction.... no offence but should be close bars because of drunks? Or close fast food places and ban forks because of overweight folks??
Sometimes people need to be the ones to accept the blame themselves, not the means to fuel what they cannot control...
/end rant
Good luck with your crates!!
[Insert "Aliens" meme here]
White knights
I do not get how I am white knighting... I am against the crates and what ZOS is doing.
You might wanna look up what White Knighting means..Conan, what is good in life?
Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.
PS4 Screen Name: The_Pale_Italian
ZweiHandler - Orc DK Tank
Solstice StormHaven - Magika Sorc
Oba Nobanaga - Stam NB1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I broke down and bought another 15 crate pack.
0 atro mountsl So I'm now over 85 crates... NO ATRO MOUNTS. Yeah, I have a lil' stockpile of gems, but what the hell, ZOS. this is stupid. I'm stupid. I feel stupid for spending money on these crates when I helped test them PTS and got screwed over the same way.
I feel burned. Granted, I totally doused myself and bought the match from the crown store... but this is... oi. Bad, ZOS. BAD.4 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some clown sitting on his fancy new storm mount in Windhelm atm...thinking (or hoping) everyone is envying him
0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?
SO misguided. So as i stated above, you bring your lawyer here, and explain where ZOS is in the legal wrong. Because I can tell you that by law, by the gaming commissions, stacked decks are in fact against the law. So lets compare reality with reality.
Edit: And let me add, that let say stacked decks were legal, and there was a BIG SIGN stating that "we reserve the right to stack the deck" then the person who sits at that blackjack table does SO AT HIS/HER OWN RISK UNDER THEIR OWN WILL and have to accept any and all results.Edited by Publius_Scipio on December 1, 2016 11:07PM4 -
waterfairy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
If you don't want anything then don't buy anything, such a strawman.
I happen to have a use for poisons, potions and collecting pets is not such a bad thing so there was really nothing I didn't want in any of the the crates I bought. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
But that is how I feel and of course you have a right to feel anyway you want just don't expect me to feel as you do.
Sorry to bring reason to extremist views.
Honey you don't even know what a strawman argument is. Also, you aren't buying things, you are risking money on the prospect of getting things. At least get your definitions right.
It's fine that you happened to get things you wanted, but that doesn't make it a good deal for every consumer. A good deal is being able to actually directly purchase things you want for a set price. That's not an extremist view, that's a basic tenet of a market economy. Sorry to bring reason to your ignorance.
I know exactly what I am purchasing, a chance to get something with useless crowns I get every month that accumulate with no use for. I did not spend one dollar over what I pay for my monthly subscription anyway.
I feel sorry for the few who can not control their impulses and over buy such items, but some of us can enjoy a beer or a glass of wine without drinking the whole case.
I worked over 30 years owning my own company so I can retire and do what I want, and thank goodness I can.
Now if we could only convert AP to Gems!
Man, if only there were some other way to spend all those crowns that keep accumulating... like, idk direct purchases of the same damn thing in the gambling boxes.
You keep glossing over the fact that I spent only 1600 crowns got an Apex mount and many other things.
Fact is these mounts are not available for direct purchase at this time.
I can only go by my own experience with the issue. You know there was this same resistance to the Crown store in the first place and we survived.
In the end I will still probably only ride my striped senche tiger anyway. lol
I am going to end this back and forth with you and just agree to disagree.
Your results are not typical. Deltia spent $100 and didn't even have enough gems for an apex mount. He said disappointment is an understatement.
He's a fool for thinking that disappointment and gambling don't go hand in hand, especially when it's a lottery in a game with horrible RNG.
Anyone buying crates shouldn't assume they'll get an apex mount, regardless of how much money they throw at them.3 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?
SO misguided. So as i stated above, you bring your lawyer here, and explain where ZOS is in the legal wrong. Because I can tell you that by law, by the gaming commissions, stacked decks are in fact against the law. So lets compare reality with reality.
I never once said what ZOS is doing is against the law, it is clearly not. Oddly enough, these crates and how you buy them are specifically designed to evade the gaming commission laws you refer to. Why does ZOS not just sell crates for cash directly instead of making you buy crowns first? Oh, that would actually put them under the oversight of those very commissions.
We can argue the semantics of "scam" all day, but there are ways ZOS could have gone about this without being so shady.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?
SO misguided. So as i stated above, you bring your lawyer here, and explain where ZOS is in the legal wrong. Because I can tell you that by law, by the gaming commissions, stacked decks are in fact against the law. So lets compare reality with reality.
I never once said what ZOS is doing is against the law, it is clearly not. Oddly enough, these crates and how you buy them are specifically designed to evade the gaming commission laws you refer to. Why does ZOS not just sell crates for cash directly instead of making you buy crowns first? Oh, that would actually put them under the oversight of those very commissions.
We can argue the semantics of "scam" all day, but there are ways ZOS could have gone about this without being so shady.
You're right we can argue all day. Except come here and show where the legal basis is that ZOS scammed anyone! Because I haven't seen one in this entire thread.1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?
SO misguided. So as i stated above, you bring your lawyer here, and explain where ZOS is in the legal wrong. Because I can tell you that by law, by the gaming commissions, stacked decks are in fact against the law. So lets compare reality with reality.
I never once said what ZOS is doing is against the law, it is clearly not. Oddly enough, these crates and how you buy them are specifically designed to evade the gaming commission laws you refer to. Why does ZOS not just sell crates for cash directly instead of making you buy crowns first? Oh, that would actually put them under the oversight of those very commissions.
We can argue the semantics of "scam" all day, but there are ways ZOS could have gone about this without being so shady.
You're right we can argue all day. Except come here and show where the legal basis is that ZOS scammed anyone! Because I haven't seen one in this entire thread.
* headdesk *
Whatever bud, enjoy your whale food.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
@Publius_Scipio Wrong, they're inherently a scam because it's a method of taking money without providing value to the customer. It doesn't become not a scam under the dubious pretense that people "know what they are". The whole thing was literally created by a behaviorist to take advantage of common consumer ignorance. You know what wouldn't be a scam? Putting the items up for direct purchase. A scam isn't something forced on people, it's something that people get tricked into engaging with.
The definition of scam in the dictionary is "a dishonest scheme, a fraud". It is not dishonest because of RNG. You and everyone else know how crown crates work. And you know you there is no guarantee on what you get. How are you or anyone else being scammed? And I am really stretching myself here to understand how there is any "dubious pretense". The whole thing was created for players to try their chance at getting something they want and ZOS to make revenue. The only way I am buying your "common consumer ignorance" argument is if you can prove that ZOS did not do their part in explaining and instructing players exactly how crown crates work.
You can't call the lottery a scam.
Edit: And let me come back to comment on your first line about "providing value to the customer". The customer out of his/her own free will decides there is value in the crown crates when they decide to make the purchase. ZOS didn't force any value upon you, me, or anyone else.
Any sale of tokenized risk is inherently a scam if it can be proven that customers are ignorant regarding the nature of risk. It has been repeatedly shown that they don't. The sale of these items is not, by and large, an honest transaction by educated participants. While some might understand the nature of probability and risk, most do not. This is not to say that all of these people who don't understand will become gambling addicts, we are just talking about whether or not it's a scam. So by the above, we can indeed call the lottery a scam, same as these gambling boxes.
So while you argue along the lines of magical thinking and 'free will", it's just not supported by the facts. The cosmetic items are put there to entice people to gamble, a decision that they cannot make rationally because they don't understand the math behind it, and so we can conclude that it's all a scam. If these were available for purchase on the normal Crown Store it wouldn't be an issue, but ZOS marketing decided that it's reasonable to take people's money and not give them anything of value for it, so now here comes the pushback.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster2 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?
SO misguided. So as i stated above, you bring your lawyer here, and explain where ZOS is in the legal wrong. Because I can tell you that by law, by the gaming commissions, stacked decks are in fact against the law. So lets compare reality with reality.
I never once said what ZOS is doing is against the law, it is clearly not. Oddly enough, these crates and how you buy them are specifically designed to evade the gaming commission laws you refer to. Why does ZOS not just sell crates for cash directly instead of making you buy crowns first? Oh, that would actually put them under the oversight of those very commissions.
We can argue the semantics of "scam" all day, but there are ways ZOS could have gone about this without being so shady.
You're right we can argue all day. Except come here and show where the legal basis is that ZOS scammed anyone! Because I haven't seen one in this entire thread.
* headdesk *
Whatever bud, enjoy your whale food.Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »So now you are presenting to me here that there are "actual rules" behind the "rules" (I assume fake rules?) that only ZOS knows? And in fact ZOS and thousands of other companies that provide products and services that come with Terms of Service. And many of us know that within those terms of service it states that the company can change [insert] [insert] [insert] as it (the company/service provider) sees fit.
So you bring your lawyer here and explain to us all where ZOS has "scammed" you all.
What are you on about? Of course there are rules we don't know: they're called the drop rates. You're telling me that if you went to a blackjack table that had a big sign on it saying "We reserve the right to stack the deck" you'd not consider that a scam?
SO misguided. So as i stated above, you bring your lawyer here, and explain where ZOS is in the legal wrong. Because I can tell you that by law, by the gaming commissions, stacked decks are in fact against the law. So lets compare reality with reality.
I never once said what ZOS is doing is against the law, it is clearly not. Oddly enough, these crates and how you buy them are specifically designed to evade the gaming commission laws you refer to. Why does ZOS not just sell crates for cash directly instead of making you buy crowns first? Oh, that would actually put them under the oversight of those very commissions.
We can argue the semantics of "scam" all day, but there are ways ZOS could have gone about this without being so shady.
You're right we can argue all day. Except come here and show where the legal basis is that ZOS scammed anyone! Because I haven't seen one in this entire thread.
* headdesk *
Whatever bud, enjoy your whale food.
you can come here and BS all you want. I proved your blackjack example a joke above. ZOS has "scammed" you because you feel it doesn't work how you think it should.
And we don't eat whale here in NYC, bud.1 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If Deltia hadn't called himself a waambulance and made a negative review of the crown crates, some of you would be giddy and excited and you can deny it but Deltia has a lot of influence in this community.Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!2 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can anyone advise me what the legal age for gambling lotteries is in their country?
Does it match the 18+ for this game or is it older?
Because we all know there is nobody under 18 playing this game and as long as the legal gambling age for lottery tickets is 18, everything is fine and people can try their luck on the crates.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0
This discussion has been closed.